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[Sinfamy]

The Xbox One in its original form was the Satan of consoles. DRM, micro transactions, and no used games, a corporate wet dream, these are the residual remains.

 

[nynt9]

Or at the same time, just don't use the Microtransactions. I agree that they're absolutely detestable, but they're also not required to play this game. It would be way worse if they were mandatory to purchase some exclusive cars, but that isn't the case. It's hard not to support Forza when its a really fantastic driving game.

For "just play the game" people, if you add up the total CR cost of all the cars in the game (from here), it comes to 104,501,000CR.

Both Grassy and transformer on this page give a rate of 230k CR/hour. That works out at 454 hours.

.

 

[BakedSardine]

I just glanced at the polygon review, 9 from Gies, and there isn't even a single mention of the microtransactions, unless I've missed it. How is this not worth talking about in a review?

Like I said - what kind of review copies to "journalists" get? If they get a 100% unlocked game, they may not even be aware of it - in which case, it just speaks to their lack of journalistic effort. Is it possible that MS put some kind of NDA on mentioning microtransactions in reviews? I find it hard to believe that Polygon, IGN, Game Informer, Gamespot, and Sessler all left that out by coincidence. It's unfathomable.

Or at the same time, just don't use the Microtransactions. I agree that they're absolutely detestable, but they're also not required to play this game. It would be way worse if they were mandatory to purchase some exclusive cars, but that isn't the case. It's hard not to support Forza when its a really fantastic driving game.

On one hand I agree - a game can be a 10/10 with everything that is offered on the disc, even if there are cars/content that can only be bought (realistically). But that should be revealed in the review. I don't think anybody would have a problem with a review if it said something along the lines of "With everything that comes on the disc for $60, this game is a 10/10. Sure, you might feel that the publisher is holding something back with $50 od DLC out of the gate and there are cars you will never be able to access for your $60 without dedicating all your free time to the game. Fortunately you can ignore all that because this game is good enough for what comes in the $60 package to deserve a 10/10 and you can ignore everything "extra" they want you to buy."

 

[soundscream]

Yeah, people were giving the impression you ONLY got cars from buying them in game, either through in game money or buying "tokens" in game.

But I was gifted 3 cars in the few couple hours of playing, and I'm not even "VIP", so that's fine with me. I don't need to drive every car in the game, but I'll be happy to buy a few of my favorites eventually when I earn enough money.

If you play through the career in the correct order you will have enough money to buy the race cars, which is always the last section in Forza games. And unlike before since you bought the cars your driving you will get a ton of money back if you sell the old cars you don't want anymore.

 

[Doczu]

Not many people need another 360.

Didn't know 360 had free online and non-bullshit first party titles.

 

[seattle6418]

Hey guys remember when Sony was going to do the same thing with Gran Turismo?

http://www.1up.com/news/versions-tons-microtransactions

Except of course, the base game was going to be free...

Great example. And that shit was beaten to death so hard by the fans of the series that they had no option but forget that abomination even existed.

I´m proud to be one of those who hated on this idea and screamed on the forums against it. We should do this everytime companies try to BS us.

 

[Listonosh]

Also, I'm noticing a lot of mention of the complete lack of Affinity levels, although they are in the game. Is that something that was added post launch? Or are people just not seeing it.

 

[Partial Gamification]

From the OP

Just to clarify, but I believe they are the original incorrect Token prices that were listed launch day. On the Store at the moment for Australia the Token prices are as follows:

100 = $1.35
325 = $3.95
575 = $6.65
1250 = $13.45
2700 = $26.95
8000 = $64.95

Not that it's much better or that I agree with the idea of Tokens and how they've gone about implementing this, but they are the prices I'm seeing right now.

Just as a general FYI, my basic Forza 5 stats breakdown is as follows:

Time spent racing: 3 hours 34 minutes
Credits earned from racing: ~331,000
Driver Level: 14(bonus credits per level is 31,500, so all up 441,000 from leveling)

Then throw in Drivatar/Car Design daily bonuses and it would put me up near 800,000 credits in total, which is roughly 230,000 credits per hour. I've been playing on above average difficulty so more could be made.

Are the prices right in the OP?

Fuckin'-A people, can I get a strait answer?

Already filed, thanks GAF (not sure if that's supposed to be sarcastic or not).
If the prices are false advertising (best value // reccomended = highest tokens per dollar amount) then people in the US can contact:
FTC 1877 832 4357
A local Consumer Protection divsion (possibly found in A.G. office)
Internet Criminal Complaint Center (recommended by the Better business Bureau)

 

[Nymphae]

Gies gonna Gies.

I'm shocked that he hasn't made the jump to Microsoft community manager yet.

Seriously.

I mean his review just felates the game with no mention of this stuff at all. He wastes so many paragraphs talking about nothing really:

Forza Motorsport 5 will make you love cars. It will also make you hate your friends.
Console launches need racing games. There's something about new hardware that gets developers in the mood to refine the genre's sense of speed, to make races feel more authentic. And of course, it doesn't hurt that racing games so capably demonstrate the visual power of new platforms.

Forza 5 addresses those needs. All of its tracks have been rebuilt, laser-scanned and meticulously crafted to be more authentically asphalt-like. It's got beautifully constructed cars, and a world filled with light so bright you can't even see the track coming out of certain corners. But Forza 5's biggest addition is something you won't necessarily see. Until, that is, it tries to smash you off the road — all with a friend's name hanging over it.

Forza 5 can play somewhat like an arcade racer, with a host of assists and options to set that will render every car a speeding bullet, vulnerable only to the most direct of collisions. But Forza's passion pushes toward simulation. Forza 5 isn't about the spectacle that drives games like Need for Speed rivals. It's about learning tracks, and more, learning about the cars you're driving — their quirks, their strengths. As you get better at Forza and disable driving aids, every car is slowly revealed to be its own puzzle to be solved.

Thankfully, Forza 5 continues the series' goal of accessibility. There are a number of options present to ease less familiar players into Forza's world. The most obvious is the return of the driving line. It's a guide projected on the track that shows you where the ideal point for your car is on any given turn. Almost as helpful is the replay feature. At almost any time, you can hit the Y button to reverse time and re-run a part of the course in real time. Take the last turn on Laguna Seca too hard and slide into the sand? Try it again. Get smashed into a railing? Try again.

Unlike other racers, Forza wants you to get things right without wasting your time — and ideally without hating the the inventor of the combustion engine any time you blow a decent lead with one miscalculation. It's a welcoming thing to be able to try a turn over and over to finally get it right without the need to restart a race. This is what Forza 5 is about.

I don't care much about cars. I don't drive. I don't lust after the latest Italian supercar or keep tabs on BMW's latest model. But I love to watch people talk about cars. I love to watch Top Gear, to see its hosts delve into a topic they clearly care deeply about, that's been an enormous part of their lives. It's a treat to get a view into that passion. It's rewarding to understand it.

Forza 5 isn't a dry, library-like collection of cars, observed in clinical detail with rubber gloves. Developers Turn 10 and their collaborators from the BBC's Top Gear want you to get your hands, and your car, dirty. They seem to want you to love cars and car culture as much as they do. Forza 5 progresses by gently pushing you through series of races and new event types — as you race, you gain more experience, unlocking new event types and new categories. Everything is tailored to you, and feels designed to keep you playing and keep you learning more.

He hasn't even really gotten into what makes this game different from the others in the series yet.

 

[LCfiner]

The fact that's he's corrected by the Doritos and Mountain Dew guy makes it even more sad.

Keighley’s Doritos moment was embarrassing but the dude knows his shit and has written great long form pieces about game development.

Alex Albrecht is a joke.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Didn't know 360 had free online and non-bullshit first party titles.

You have a point. I knew I should have typed PS3, but I second-guessed myself because the PS3 is superior hardware..

But I'm sure you get my drift.

As honest as it may be, WiiU is even worse value for the money you pay for it. Yes, XBone is evil, but the good WiiU is unfortunately not even remotely an alternative.

 

[BakedSardine]

Are the prices right in the OP?

Fuckin'-A people, can I get a strait answer?

Already filed, thanks GAF (not sure if that's supposed to be sarcastic or not).
If the prices are false advertising (best value // reccomended = highest tokens per dollar amount) then people in the US can contact:
FTC 1877 832 4357
A local Consumer Protection divsion (possibly found in A.G. office)
Internet Criminal Complaint Center (recommended by the Better business Bureau)

Not "Best" value, "Great" value. I doubt the FTC would look into this - it's like at the grocer where larger bottles of stuff are not always cheaper per oz.

 

[soundscream]

Also, I'm noticing a lot of mention of the complete lack of Affinity levels, although they are in the game. Is that something that was added post launch? Or are people just not seeing it.

No it was always there, but it just doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Not "Best" value, "Great" value. I doubt the FTC would look into this - it's like at the grocer where larger bottles of stuff are not always cheaper per oz.

They sure as shit took the complaint, I don't think anything will get done but it might be looked into.


edit: holiday week and no one seems bothered to cancel the complaints, the FTC lady sounded kind of happy.

 

[chubigans]

Seriously.

I mean his review just felates the game with no mention of this stuff at all. He wastes so many paragraphs talking about nothing really:



He hasn't even really gotten into what makes this game different from the others in the series yet.

oh god that review made my brain melt. It's like a reworded PR fluff piece.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Or at the same time, just don't use the Microtransactions. I agree that they're absolutely detestable, but they're also not required to play this game. It would be way worse if they were mandatory to purchase some exclusive cars, but that isn't the case. It's hard not to support Forza when its a really fantastic driving game.

Better yet, buy the game used and don't use the microtransactions

 

[WarMacheen]

Keighley’s Doritos moment was embarrassing but the dude knows his shit and has written great long form pieces about game development.

Alex Albrecht is a joke.

Dorito's Pope aside, I have to agree. He is one of the few "journalists" in the industry that isn't a complete spineless hack.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Didn't know 360 had free online and non-bullshit first party titles.

Careful, your bias is showing

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

Better yet, buy the game used and don't use the microtransactions

Yep, if you don't support these practices and still want to play those games, then at the very least buy them used.

 

[Listonosh]

Better yet, buy the game used and don't use the microtransactions

Boom.

 

[Can Crusher]

I have no hate for the dorito pope. He's making money while being professional about his job.

 

[inky]

oh god that review made my brain melt. It's like a reworded PR fluff piece.

From Gies? Nah, I don't believe you

 

[KungFucius]

Vote with your wallet.

That would be fine if nobody bought the damn game, but given that they did/will there will always be enough stupid people that buy the parts. It is evil for sure and I will not buy this stupid game for my Xbone. It's not like it has huge writing on it saying" "Buy new cars online with 100 fucking bucks of your own fucking money".

 

[Delusibeta]

Just to clarify, but I believe they are the original incorrect Token prices that were listed launch day. On the Store at the moment for Australia the Token prices are as follows:

100 = $1.35
325 = $3.95
575 = $6.65
1250 = $13.45
2700 = $26.95
8000 = $64.95

100 = 74 tokens per AU$
325 = 82 tokens/$
575 = 86 tokens/$
1250 = 93 tokens/$
2700 = 100 tokens/$
8000 = 123 tokens/$
Would make a tonne more sense, but I guess this freight train is well down the tracks now. Plus, we're still talking the smart end of $90 to get the Lotus F1 car.

 

[uncledonnie]

Or at the same time, just don't use the Microtransactions. I agree that they're absolutely detestable, but they're also not required to play this game. It would be way worse if they were mandatory to purchase some exclusive cars, but that isn't the case. It's hard not to support Forza when its a really fantastic driving game.

This -- I'll buy the games I enjoy thanks. I have no problem ignoring the microtransactions and they have yet to prevent me from getting my moneys worth out of a game.

 

[Flo_Evans]

He hasn't even really gotten into what makes this game different from the others in the series yet.

I don't care much about cars. I don't drive.

This right here tells you all you need to know about his review. He doesn't even mention the simulation engine once! All he talks about are assists and rewind.

Forza was one of the main reasons for me to get a 360. If they fuck up GT with this bullshit I am going to have to get a foooking PC for race sims.

 

[IISANDERII]

How are the achievements? Do they encourage spending money?

I just glanced at the polygon review, 9 from Gies, and there isn't even a single mention of the microtransactions, unless I've missed it. How is this not worth talking about in a review?

I wouldn't expect him to. I've given up on Gies a while ago.

 

[soundscream]

How are the achievements? Do they encourage spending money?

NO
http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/forza-motorsport-5/achievements/

 

[TTOOLL]

wow, just saw this thread. I cannot read everything now but I imagine people have discussed the fact the it was not pointed out in most reviews, right? I thinks it has to do with the fact the reviewers spend too little time with the game they are giving their opinion about. In the end, people are being fooled.

 

[phosphor112]

I knew I can count on you guys, lol.

Got a link to the ep? Saw the gif though!

Found it.
http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/okh901/bonus-round-how-to-win-e3-2013

 

[Syph Medwes]

I don't understand the problem; just don't spend money. Unless I read it wrong it seems you can earn those cars in-game so who cares how much they cost in real money, just play the game. They're not supposed to be easy to obtain...

 

[soundscream]

wow, just saw this thread. I cannot read everything now but I imagine people have discussed the fact the it was not pointed out in most reviews, right? I thinks it has to do with the fact the reviewers spend too little time with the game they are giving their opinion about. In the end, people are being fooled.

HOW

You don't need to buy the tokens. It plays the same way as every Forza before except they give you more in game money.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Like I said - what kind of review copies to "journalists" get? If they get a 100% unlocked game, they may not even be aware of it - in which case, it just speaks to their lack of journalistic effort. Is it possible that MS put some kind of NDA on mentioning microtransactions in reviews? I find it hard to believe that Polygon, IGN, Game Informer, Gamespot, and Sessler all left that out by coincidence. It's unfathomable.



On one hand I agree - a game can be a 10/10 with everything that is offered on the disc, even if there are cars/content that can only be bought (realistically). But that should be revealed in the review. I don't think anybody would have a problem with a review if it said something along the lines of "With everything that comes on the disc for $60, this game is a 10/10. Sure, you might feel that the publisher is holding something back with $50 od DLC out of the gate and there are cars you will never be able to access for your $60 without dedicating all your free time to the game. Fortunately you can ignore all that because this game is good enough for what comes in the $60 package to deserve a 10/10 and you can ignore everything "extra" they want you to buy."

You get a review copy (near final build) or retail copy and With it a NDA with a list of bullet point you shouldn't mention: (all true examples)
- loading and installations time for MGS4
- secret characters unlocks (all Nintendo titles)
- performance issue that will be resolve in retail copy (never really are) for most dudebros online fps concerning lag and stuff but that is relative because we usually can't test mp outside preview events and online the sp is there for us to review in time when reviews copy get in.

No doubt there was NDA about micro transactions for forza in reviews. Also most of reviewers have no clue how to play a racing sim and will just see it plays ok with full assists, it's pretty, there is a lot or cars, looks like there is tons of options what ever they are or mean... 9/10 I guess it's a good and complete sim.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I don't understand the problem; just don't spend money. Unless I read it wrong it seems you can earn those cars in-game so who cares how much they cost in real money, just play the game. They're not supposed to be easy to obtain...

You can earn those cars in game

For "just play the game" people, if you add up the total CR cost of all the cars in the game (from here), it comes to 104,501,000CR.

Both Grassy and transformer on this page give a rate of 230k CR/hour. That works out at 454 hours.

Or you can just pay. We've seen this model before:

 

[ArkkAngel007]

wow, just saw this thread. I cannot read everything now but I imagine people have discussed the fact the it was not pointed out in most reviews, right? I thinks it has to do with the fact the reviewers spend too little time with the game they are giving their opinion about. In the end, people are being fooled.

That and giving it to people who aren't the type that identifies with that genre and would not attempt/understand the grind to get a 6,000,000cr car.

 

[nib95]

Can we make a list of reviews that did mention or detail the micro transactions, and the pay walled by DLC gameplay modes on the disc? I'd like to know which I can trust and not trust on such matters going forward.

So far...

Did mention micro-transactions.

Eurogamer

Did not mention micro-transactions.

Rev3 (Sessler)
Polygon (Gies)

 

[NervousXtian]

I think a lot of the people complaining the most don't even understand the point of a sim racer.

It's like complaining about not enough characters in a fighting game.

Are you trying to race through the content and collect all the cars.. or you know actually try to maximize lap times and do the best with the car you are racing?

I mean, I guess I see getting ultra mad if you look at GT/Forza as collect-a-thons and not actually racing games.

It's not really grinding if you're playing the game the to get better at it. If you consider actually racing to be grinding, then you might want more of an arcade racer.

Not that I'm completely defending this shit, but a lot of people seem to miss the point of what these games are about.

 

[TTOOLL]

HOW

You don't need to buy the tokens. It plays the same way as every Forza before except they give you more in game money.

I meant by the reviewers not raising awareness about this situation.

 

[BloodMoney]

Any chance we can buy a more honest review from Gies?

 

[Htown]

I think a lot of the people complaining the most don't even understand the point of a sim racer.

It's like complaining about not enough characters in a fighting game.

people got pissed about SFxT too, so I guess it is.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Can we make a list of reviews that did mention or detail the micro transactions, and the pay walled by DLC gameplay modes on the disc? I'd like to know which I can trust and not trust on such matters going forward.

So far...

Did mention micro-transactions.

Eurogamer

Did not mention micro-transactions.

Rev3 (Sessler)
Polygon (Gies)

I think Eurogamer was the only one to mention it, oddly enough, within the review. Everyone else I've seen mention it has been through standard commentary (Jim Sterling) or even in another review (Sessler).

Do we know exactly if any outlets were given 'complete' copies?

 

[Htown]

HOW

You don't need to buy the tokens. It plays the same way as every Forza before except they give you more in game money.

People have already pointed out ways in which the game is different from previous entries.

 

[Alucrid]

I think a lot of the people complaining the most don't even understand the point of a sim racer.

It's like complaining about not enough characters in a fighting game.

Are you trying to race through the content and collect all the cars.. or you know actually try to maximize lap times and do the best with the car you are racing?

I mean, I guess I see getting ultra mad if you look at GT/Forza as collect-a-thons and not actually racing games.

It's not really grinding if you're playing the game the to get better at it. If you consider actually racing to be grinding, then you might want more of an arcade racer.

Not that I'm completely defending this shit, but a lot of people seem to miss the point of what these games are about.

Driving cars I can't in real life?

 

[Persona RS]

Like I said - what kind of review copies to "journalists" get? If they get a 100% unlocked game, they may not even be aware of it - in which case, it just speaks to their lack of journalistic effort. Is it possible that MS put some kind of NDA on mentioning microtransactions in reviews? I find it hard to believe that Polygon, IGN, Game Informer, Gamespot, and Sessler all left that out by coincidence. It's unfathomable.

Maybe the review copies that major american outlets receive are not exactly the same as the retail version. That, or those who made the reviews are not into racing games.

I can only speak for myself. All the games that I received so far to review for a portuguese site, are "promotional copies". Basically, they are the retail version but without manual or boxart.

 

[Nymphae]

No doubt there was NDA about micro transactions for forza in reviews. Also most of reviewers have no clue how to play a racing sim and will just see it plays ok with full assists, it's pretty, there is a lot or cars, looks like there is tons of options what ever they are or mean... 9/10 I guess it's a good and complete sim.

So how can reviews be worth anything if they aren't even allowed to tell you about all the relevant details I would need to make a purchase? Unbelievable, I think some of these guys need to start not signing NDAs and just be honest with their audiences about why they don't have day 1 reviews.

 

[coldfoot]

Are you trying to race through the content and collect all the cars.. or you know actually try to maximize lap times and do the best with the car you are racing?

I mean, I guess I see getting ultra mad if you look at GT/Forza as collect-a-thons and not actually racing games.

It's not really grinding if you're playing the game the to get better at it. If you consider actually racing to be grinding, then you might want more of an arcade racer.

Because you can either care about lap times car collections, right? Can't have both at the same time. Similarly you can either be an arcade racer and more casual, or a sim racer shaving milliseconds off your lap time right, you can't be both.

Not that I'm completely defending this shit, but a lot of people seem to miss the point of what these games are about.

Nope, you're completely defending this shit.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Gies gonna Gies.

I'm shocked that he hasn't made the jump to Microsoft community manager yet.

He's the Che Chou / Luke Smith of the new generation, except those dudes at least had redeeming qualities.

Edit: I'm actually surprised we don't have a super Sony fanboy editor on one of these gaming sites. Who is going to reprise the role of Mangod Shane Bettenhausen?

 

[phosphor112]

How are the achievements? Do they encourage spending money?
I wouldn't expect him to. I've given up on Gies a while ago.

Not through their achievement system, no. But their reward system does.

 

[soundscream]

People have already pointed out ways in which the game is different from previous entries.

As someone who has played 1-5 I can tell you it is not different in anyway that affects playing the career mode from start to finish.

 

[commish]

454 hours to get all the content really isn't that bad.