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"Game of the Year" - How Stanley Parable's Davey Wreden struggled with the attention
- Thread starter Messofanego
- Start date
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I feel like...yes and no. I mean, some people gave a shit about The Stanley Parable when it was a simple mod. The mass market didn't give a shit about it until it was mass market friendly, but isn't that kind of the point?
Games journalism coverage is still overwhelmingly mass market driven. Even the indie games that get talked about are the "showcase" indie games. It is what it is.
RadarScope1
Member
I'd be interested to see the Venn diagram of how many of the "who cares/another whiner" posters are in successful relationships. It's called fucking empathy people. Even if you don't understand it, or would react differently, acknowledging that everyone sees/reacts differently to things is a basic trait for being a successful human being in the world. I don't get why people feel the need to be so callous. Just a function if Internet anonymity I guess
chrominance
Member
In this thread: indie dev realizes success doesn't solve your own insecurities, other people respond by telling dev success should solve their own insecurities. Good job, guys.
dark_prinny
Banned
That´s a thin skin life vision right there. This guy should be happy about the good things he had achieve and leave this " the world doesn´t really understand me " 15 year old attitude for fuck´s sake.
I´m sorry but this is too much.
I´m sorry but this is too much.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Interesting how he seems to be having different problems from the Flappy Bird guy. Dong Nguyen felt personally responsible for all the negative things his game caused and that was the root of his anxieties, while this guy seems to lack self-confidence in the things he created (kinda like the TotalBiscuit meltdown we had some time ago) and craves positive feedback because of it.
jacksepticeye
Member
I can sympathise with him. Attention and praise don't suddenly make you a super happy person, it does for a little bit but after a while you realise that nothing really changes. You still feel down about certain things and you still question your own self worth or if any of the things you're doing really are all that great or people are just being nice. It's in these moments that any sort of negative comment or hateful post about you really hit hardest and stay with you
This is something I think the Flappy Bird dev was feeling too in a way just on a far bigger scale
This is something I think the Flappy Bird dev was feeling too in a way just on a far bigger scale
I wonder how many developers will need to come out and say that life isn't the happy experience you think it is before people will stop calling them whiny/ungrateful pretentious morons who should be happy they have money and success.
There are a lot of developers who suffer from major insecurities. Seemingly, especially so with indie developers. Money isn't a magical fix all and can actually sometimes make it worse.
Annoyingly, I actually think the very nature of game development breeds these insecurities. Nothing like taking on an extremely isolating task for years. One where it is often extremely hard to see how much progress you are making, and for indie developers often with extremely tight budgets to live off of and without any guarantee that it will be worth it in the end.
There are a lot of developers who suffer from major insecurities. Seemingly, especially so with indie developers. Money isn't a magical fix all and can actually sometimes make it worse.
Annoyingly, I actually think the very nature of game development breeds these insecurities. Nothing like taking on an extremely isolating task for years. One where it is often extremely hard to see how much progress you are making, and for indie developers often with extremely tight budgets to live off of and without any guarantee that it will be worth it in the end.
dark_prinny
Banned
ITT: People have an opinion about a person attitude and does´t really have to be aligned with yours.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
But I thought fame and fortune would make all my inscrutable little insecurities disappear
what is this
what is this
SketchTheArtist
Member
Sure, but when it's about lacking a basic human trait like empathy, there's not a lot to defend.
....I do not know how to respond to this without pointing your finger back at your own face. So....good job at lashing out, I guess?
Nope, you do not get to play that card when you used "for fuck's sake" and "15 year old attitude" in the same sentence. Talking about our own flaws and faults is not childish behavior, trying to hide them is.
jacksepticeye
Member
According to some posts in here that IS how it's supposed to work
dark_prinny
Banned
I get to play that card when he made it public on the internet. And talking about your own faults and toughts on such a personal issue by throwing it out in the wild is pretty much useless, and childish.
Tertullian
Member
The second quote above is, I think, the reason why I have trouble working up any extra sympathy for this developer. So he feels like he doesn't deserve recognition and adulation? Well, guess who else doesn't feel like they deserve recognition and adulation: almost everyone. The difference between this guy and everyone else isn't that he feels unworthy and everyone else feels fine; we all feel unworthy a lot of the time. The difference is that he actually gets validation and praise, while many other people get jack shit.
Basically, who's worse off:
A. Someone who gets tons of praise, adulation, and money, complains to a large internet audience that he still feels insecure, and has a ton of people actually listen to him and sympathize with him.
B. Someone who works in a dead-end job, gets no recognition at all, feel insecure, and has no one to complain to or ask for sympathy.
I guess you all are right; it's always better to try to empathize with others and give them the benefit of the doubt. And I wasn't trying to say that Davey Wreden is a bad person or the second coming of Phil Fish. But if I have a finite amount of emotional energy, my extra sympathy is going to go to person B above, not person A.
No, we need more developers to talk up about their problems. Developer insecurities are widespread and the more awareness we have of it the better.
Except you have no idea how useless it is for the the guy? We aren't all the same dude, the way we experience and process our lives is different for everyone.
MDSLKTR
Member
Lmao this
A stupid and imbecilic opinion to have, uninformed by the real world and pretty much fits the profile of your average 15 year old youtube commenter who's never left his mom's basement.
I'm inclined to agree.
Success is not something most people come by, especially at the level he has. If he can't get passed his insecurities, he could use a little growing up. I'm willing to bet nearly any other developer, including many vets in the industry, would have loved to reached his level of success. Tons of people purchased his work and enjoyed themselves. A little bit of their life was spent doing something they enjoyed, because he made it. Be glad you can give people that, because few people can.
SketchTheArtist
Member
He didn't rape someone, he made a game.
EDIT: Also, great thread to dust off the good old IGNORE LIST.
dark_prinny
Banned
That much is true, but How do you think this is serving him any good purpose?
How do you expect this is going to help him?
Perhaps it helps him get something off his chest? Merely having a release of some kind can be a massive help, and that goes double if you then get other people who come forward with the same issues. Double again considering how isolating this industry can be.
Or maybe he wants to tell people what it is really like? Maybe you can tell from this thread, but people have some very crazy ideas regarding success and what effect it has on people.
By this point we know that it isn't just one or two developers.
He gets to tell people how he is really feeling and is willing to take the risk of creating a shitstorm based on people's reactions. Instead of just hiding away he can actually tell people what's up and free himself from this secret burden he has. It feels good to be honest with yourself, and it takes guts to do so when you know there are ravaging dogs on the other side of the fence. Maybe he needed to prove to himself that he has the ability to come out strong.
dark_prinny
Banned
You seem pretty mature by calling me names, uh?
Perhaps you can throw some light into the subject instead of personal insults, so you can show your knowledge about real life to a poor ignorant pubescent.
Why does one have a finite amount of sympathy or empathy? In practical terms, what about Wreden's situation requires "extra" sympathy over and above the government file clerk? Is he demanding money or volunteer work or people to email him and say nice things? Is it not possible to see both and think "Shit, that sucks, hope things work out for the guy" about each? In what way does one preclude the other?
Senor Kami
Banned
He should probably cease making games or cease releasing them to the public if he can't handle what happens when you do those two things. This whole woe is me thing that permeates a lot of the indie scene is a major turn off for me.
I hope dude gets the help he needs. Alcoholics and crack heads make alot of the points and arguments he's making about using their vice of choice to fill some hole in their life.
I hope dude gets the help he needs. Alcoholics and crack heads make alot of the points and arguments he's making about using their vice of choice to fill some hole in their life.
It is fairly common in any other industry; issues such as self-doubt, imposter syndrome, becoming addicted to validation, are all relatively prevalent, though it's often considered a social taboo by people who are too ignorant to know any better, as evidenced by this thread.
Why would I need to inform you of anything? You got what you deserved by posting your idiotic opinions and thoughts on the internet just like this Dave guy.
Well, id rather be rich with these feelings than poor with them
SousedLouse
Member
Maybe the sympathy one may feel for Person A might be tempered by the success they have. The sympathy's shrunk down to little globules. Sympascraps. Meanwhile, Person B is in such a shitty situation that they get bumped up to top priority for emotional expression. Maybe Person B might even get some pity mixed into their sympathy, for all the good it will do them.
I don't see how people could be expected to be empathetic. Imposter syndrome is irrational, that's why it is a phenomenon. From the outside, looking in, the logical conclusion is "Uh ... why can't you just be happy with your success?". It is left up to the 'imposter' to decide when to accept their accomplishments.
That's why these thoughts are personal. That's why writing therapy, such as this, is often unpublished or anonymous.
He shouldn't be shamed by any means, but people should feel free to react honestly to his situation.
he's saying that seeing goty lists without papers please makes him think the whole process is bullshit
Comedians are often depressed people. The outlook needed to laugh yourself out of a depression probably translates well into making other people laugh.
You know what they say, the funniest people are often the most depressed.
Or something along those lines.
People in this thread making that game far too easy.
PaulExcellent
Member
Lists without Papers, Please come off as bullshit to him? I think?
That's the one line that comes off as strange to me.
blame space
Banned
do you ever feel like your life is the confusion ending?
dark_prinny
Banned
So basically, he has the same thing most artists have. Whoopie-do?
It sucks that he feels like he has to look at the GotY lists and seek the validation, but there's a simple solution for that: Just block all e-mails and game-journalism domains so you don't ever see a "Game of the Year" list and don't feel the need to validate yourself to journalists and other people.
It seems like more than anything all the attention the journalists are giving him and his title is what is bothering him more than anything. At least how I read that comic.
Why? How does not having Papers Please on a GotY list from a journalists own picks somehow make the entire process bullshit? If he feels that way; By all means, make your own GotY list, Stanly Parable dude! Include Papers, Please! on it and explain why you feel it's GotY then.
Versus inadequacy and no external accomplishments? Of course.