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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014

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S

SwissLion

Member
lord_of_flood said:
Yeah, I've gotta distance myself from the entire GG/anti-GG debate now. I supported GG originally, and while I still think we need to always talk about ethics in journalism, there's so much vitriol in the debate right now that any discussion is rendered ineffective. Save it for a later time and later date when bigger problems come to light.

Staying neutral, it takes up way too much time and energy to even follow now.
Click to expand...

Not really. There was a pretty comprehensive list a little ways up in the thread that should give you plenty of reasons to denounce Gamergate.

If your whole deal is journalistic ethics you should still categorically denounce Gamergate. They don't understand ethics, and the version of ethics they'd like to impose would be a much, much worse issue for the industry than the sometimes blurry lines between Games Media and Games Publishers.
 
G

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
lord_of_flood said:
Yeah, I've gotta distance myself from the entire GG/anti-GG debate now. I supported GG originally, and while I still think we need to always talk about ethics in journalism, there's so much vitriol in the debate right now that any discussion is rendered ineffective. Save it for a later time and later date when bigger problems come to light.

Staying neutral, it takes up way too much time and energy to even follow now.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what does "ethics in journalism" mean to you? It's become this vague catch all for "stuff I don't like" that it's hard to pin down when somebody pops in and says that. And can you point to anybody who wants less ethics in journalism?
 
F

Foffy

Banned
Wasn't this about issues of nepotism and that bed of corruption in games?

What happened here? Was that a veil many used to just be shady people? I know GAF has had threads on corruption and the state of game journalism like Doritogate, but what this has evolved into seems far from video games and more of a sincere hate campaign.

Clearly, whatever intent was supposed to be argued about has somehow turned into a ship that seems to be yet another vehicle for people on the internet to target Anita Sarkeesian. At least, that's what I've been able to deduce as that seems to be the final trigger to this exploding the way it has.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
Foffy said:
Wasn't this about issues of nepotism and that bed of corruption in games?

What happened here? Was that a veil many used to just be shady people? I know GAF has had threads on corruption and the state of game journalism like Doritogate, but what this has evolved into seems far from video games and more of a sincere hate campaign.
Click to expand...

Are you just joining us?

Read the thread. Read the OP.

It was always a hate campaign.
 
J

JackDT

Member
Well the original GAF journalism thread WAS about ethics in journalism before gamergate, when it become almost entirely about Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, feminism, SJW, etc.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
tchocky said:
Some GamerGaters are trying to convince a woman about their cause the only problem is she is a bot.

https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=%40ElizaRBarr
Click to expand...

While this has been amazing...

Seth Rogen drops this :D
iwFdedzONDDUa.png
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
So, apparently, "our" Boogie just made a YouTube video about why StopGamerGate should shut up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evjl4WdGY34#t=14

More_Badass said:
It's an entertainment medium and an art form.
Click to expand...

So?

They are still video games which are still toys.

Or do you really want to go into a pedantic argument about what things are and are not in the context of a hate group thinking this is a civil rights movement over women in video games?

Repeat: they are not organizing a "sit in" because they want equal pay or something. They are doing it because a woman dares work in video games. Now, are you really sure you want to pick this fight?
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
SkyOdin said:
Here's the thing: the vast majority of trolls and people who make threats are not "psychos". That is the truly terrifying thing. Most racists are not mentally ill or brain-damaged. Most violence in the world isn't carried out by clinical psychopaths. Completely ordinary and healthy human beings are capable of performing acts of terrible cruelty and violence. Why? Because of their environment. Their culture.

Passing off all of this as the actions of "psychos" is just burying your head int he sand. Internet trolling and threats is the product of an internet culture that has evolved, and by extension, that means that a lot of people who don't actively participate in that activity do share in the responsibility for maintaining that underlying culture.

To make an analogy: racism is still endemic in the United States. That racism is far too broadly practiced to pass off as the actions of a few random nut-jobs. Instead, it is cultural: the product of information and teaching that is passed from person to person, generation to generation. People partake in racism because they are taught that it is natural way of things, and even those who don't actively participate don't question it because it is "the way things are". As long as people can rationalize that events are logical or normal, they will happily pretend that they are not happening at all, simply because it doesn't directly affect them.

We are at a similar point with internet trolling: it is so common-place that people simply accept that it is the natural way of things, without actually examining the state of affairs. Trolling and internet threats didn't always exist; they are a phenomenon that evolved. Back when the word "trolling" was coined, it took a very different form: people trying to 'catch' newcomers to message boards who were not familiar with the local memes. Those were mostly harmless forum in-jokes, but the phenomenon evolved from there to become groups intentionally trying to rile up and inflict emotional harm on other groups.

I can't say I know the whole story, or really where the root of the problem is, but I don't want to just pass this whole detestable situation off as something that can't be changed. I don't want to go and pretend that this problem has nothing to do with me. If left alone, it will fester and grow worse. It really will become "the way things are" and become all the harder to root out.

If you have been the victim of threats and harassment online, you should sympathize with the goal of changing this problem.
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Well said, sir. "Trolls" are people. Normal people who pay their taxes, have families, and hold real jobs. Like this guy.

Disaster Nebraska said:
Dat controlled narrative.

There's also that group of people who support some of the bullet-points of the hashtag movement and are summarily lumped into #gamergate to make them easier to dismiss.

Ya know.

Like you're doing.
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No, he's saying there aren't two sides because until tonight's hashtags there weren't two sides. There was just #GamerGate and people who were for whatever reason, not a part of #GamerGate.

23qwerty said:
Basically: bad people don't have to be mentally ill to be bad people. That's actually a really gross, damaging sentiment.
Click to expand...

What? Saying that normal people can do bad things isn't a damaging sentiment. It's the truth.

bronson said:
How does GamerGate even recover?

Say some people genuinely want to discuss ethics in journalism down the road and they use a different name or hashtag -- what's to stop the same sad dicks from poisoning the new conversation?
Click to expand...

It doesn't. If you care about ethics in games journalism and want an organization with consumer power behind it, here's the roadmap. It requires an actual organization with clear goals and clear leadership.

But that doesn't change that right now, you can talk directly to the people behind most of the major game sites. And you can civilly say, I don't agree with these actions or this direction. And if they don't listen for whatever reason - they have that right - the best thing you can do is read a site that does speak to you. That's a power you have with or without a hashtag.

GamerJM said:
I seriously hope that in like, a year this will all be over and someone can start a legit movement about actual corruption in the video game industry.
Click to expand...

Like I said, you can do that now. But it has to be controlled. It has to be on message.

Corpekata said:
If GG really wanted to move beyond the harrassment, they'd have ditched the Milos, the Sargons, the FarttoContinues, the Roguestarz. But they only get more popular.
Click to expand...

And this is part of the problem. Those voices are full of rhetoric that's hateful and exclusionary and yet they're a large part of the movement.

Blyr said:
It actually took far, far longer than I'm comfortable with for this to sink into my thick skull. When you finally detach yourself from GG, and move away from the constant reinforcement the group provides that "no, we're doing the right thing! These are the bad guys, remember how bad they made you feel? We're doing the RIGHT THING!" you look and see holy shit.

This really IS a hate movement fueled by nutters. How did I get dragged into this?!

I'd implore GG supporters to distance themselves from the tag, and from the community, and take a very good look at everything that's going on, and all of the people who are being hurt. Are videogame websites, that we don't even visit, worth peoples LIVES being ruined? It's so easy to feel like it's all just a game, because we aren't the ones on the other end of the hatred. It's easy to point at someone and call "false flag!" because we aren't the ones who are sitting there, having people actually show up on our doorstep, saying "come out and plaaayy". The ends do NOT justify the means.

We don't NEED #GG to do good. There are a lot of people who want to achieve the same goals as us, but we are RADIOACTIVE until we move away from #GG because of what it represents. We can't start enacting change when the people who actually could start making these changes happen want nothing to do with us.
Click to expand...

Well said.

docbon said:
yeah, i'm currently staring at an unlisted board on 8chan potentially detailing every address she's ever lived at. not linking for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

And that board is clearly labelled GamerGate, so that's part of the hashtag right?
 
M

More_Badass

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
So, apparently, "our" Boogie just made a YouTube video about why StopGamerGate should shut up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evjl4WdGY34#t=14



So?

They are still video games which are still toys.

Or do you really want to go into a pedantic argument about what things are and are not in the context of a hate group thinking this is a civil rights movement over women in video games?

Repeat: they are not organizing a "sit in" because they want equal pay or something. They are doing it because a woman dares work in video games.
Click to expand...
We can agree to disagree about video games, but you're right, that's a discussion for another time and place
 
L

lord_of_flood

Member
Galactic Fork said:
Out of curiosity, what does "ethics in journalism" mean to you? It's become this vague catch all for "stuff I don't like" that it's hard to pin down when somebody pops in and says that. And can you point to anybody who wants less ethics in journalism?
Click to expand...

Mainly I was hoping GG would explore the relationship between media outlets and publishers through ad revenue and brand deals at some point, as that's where the problems really lie IMO. Of course it was never meant to be since the discussion got started and continued on for the wrong reasons, so shame on me for hoping it would happen.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
More_Badass said:
We can agree to disagree about video games, but you're right, that's a discussion for another time and place
Click to expand...

Okay, so what, in your mind, constitutes a sit-in for this? What are they sitting in for?

Because it's not for a video games right to be a video game.

Tripon said:
...if you didn't watch it yet, why the hell did you link it?
Click to expand...

Because I couldn't finish it, it was just him reiterating everything he's said on GAF. Starting with his persecution.
 
J

JackDT

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
So, apparently, "our" Boogie just made a YouTube video about why StopGamerGate should shut up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evjl4WdGY34#t=14
Click to expand...

Boogies says that if game sites post an ethics policy as a concession, gamergate will accept that and meet its goals.

To state the obvious... http://www.polygon.com/pages/ethics-statement

Not sure what he's getting at. I've been browsing the hashtag all day and it's quite literally >90% about Brianna Wu lying, on Anita Sarkeesian, all the normal stuff. You have to look hard to find the tweets even indirectly about ethics.

Edit: sorry, didn't see that post when I posted. I agree no need to raise tensions any more.
 
G

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
lord_of_flood said:
Mainly I was hoping GG would explore the relationship between media outlets and publishers through ad revenue and brand deals at some point, as that's where the problems really lie IMO. Of course it was never meant to be since the discussion got started and continued on for the wrong reasons, so shame on me for hoping it would happen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right there, considering they went after Intel for advertising on that site because of articles they published. That was explicitly an attempt to use ad revenue to determine what they write about. So yeah

HP_Wuvcraft said:
... you're really gonna make me watch it, aren't you?
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I didn't know force was an option... But sure why not? You have to watch it.
We shouldn't really discuss here... so I'll let you off the hook this time.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
EmCeeGramr said:
does mundane matt not remember when he tried to stop people from spreading the "reddit shadowbanned a dude for mentioning gamergate in an assange AMA" bullshit and they all called him a shill and turncoat for like a day
Click to expand...

Do GamerGaters even know what a "shill," is? I feel like 99% of the time I've seen them use the phrase it doesn't even make any sense in the context they're using it.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Got into this thread because even Joss Whedon is chiming in, apparently.

This just got tinfoil hat, everyone is against us conspiracy theory kind of insane.

...and I thought it was bad before, but man.
 
S

SwissLion

Member
#StopGamergate still isn't an opposing movement in a Democrats v Republicans kinda way.

Gamergate grew beyond just a hastag, and this might too, though I doubt it.

As much as Gamergate likes to accuse everyone who opposes them of groupthink, thinking Gamergate sucks is simultaneously more defined a connection and less evidence of a concerted movement than Gamergate will ever be.
 
O

OzzMejia

Neo Member
DragonGirl said:
I just wanted to suggest that this article be added to the OP:

http://deadspin.com/the-future-of-the-culture-wars-is-here-and-its-gamerga-1646145844

Anyone second the motion?
Click to expand...

I've been lurking in this thread and would like to second this motion. It's a really fascinating piece and an interesting read, given that it's written from an outsider's perspective.

Also love that Deadspin's sports fan regulars are reacting to this and basically laughing at the idea of a group getting this worked up over video games.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
FlutterPuffs said:
Got into this thread because even Joss Whedon is chiming in, apparently.
Click to expand...

Joss Whedon @josswhedon · 20m 20 minutes ago
TERRORISM ISN'T BLOWING THINGS UP. IT'S USING THE FEAR OF VIOLENCE TO COW US AND CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

I'm really unclear if he is calling GamerGate cowards or calling Anita a coward.
 
T

Tripon

Member
Messofanego said:
That happens. Maybe you can bite the bullet and tell us about the video? :p I ain't watching.
Click to expand...


Yes and we have been asked to not just drop links in the thread.

LaserBuddha said:
Can you really blame him for not wanting to? It is still relevant to the thread.
Click to expand...

Yes I can. Considering what happened to Boogie in this this thread, just casually linking to a video of his with the implication of "listen to this fucking thing" is in my opinion pretty damn callous to do.

If you want to critique the video, fine. But just linking to it without any context is just going to lead to another feeding frenzy.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Okay, so what, in your mind, constitutes a sit-in for this? What are they sitting in for?

Because it's not for a video games right to be a video game.



Because I couldn't finish it, it was just him reiterating everything he's said on GAF. Starting with his persecution.
Click to expand...
What? I meant I disagree about video games being just toys and agree that this isn't the thread to discuss that
I totally agree that people planning a sit-in over video games is insanely ridiculous
 
G

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
MHWilliams said:
What? Saying that normal people can do bad things isn't a damaging sentiment. It's the truth.
Click to expand...
I read that as they were agreeing that only "crazy" or "mentally ill" people can do bad things is the dangerous sentiment. Or was hoping. I've been contemplating asking for a couple pages.

HP_Wuvcraft said:
Joss Whedon @josswhedon · 20m 20 minutes ago
TERRORISM ISN'T BLOWING THINGS UP. IT'S USING THE FEAR OF VIOLENCE TO COW US AND CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

I'm really unclear if he is calling GamerGate cowards or calling Anita a coward.
Click to expand...

He's calling the threats terrorism.
 
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