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[JackDT]

So TB really went on a stream with RogueStar? The guy saying stuff like this in Zoe Quinn IRC channels:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BznWTI0CIAAvaoM.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw1sO6ACAAAJ5Lc.png

http://i.imgur.com/FZB8vuM.png

The guy who was removed from the escapist article after it was revealed he has been going after Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/520689629469896704

The guy going off about prosecution and racketeering in the IGF long after it was debunked.

RogueStar, KingOfPol, MundaneMatt, the typical GG streaming crew. If he's in with them then I guess I misread him badly.

 

[QuantumZebra]

This is what I don't understand. The original premise was shown to be a lie. Most of the others have been debunked. For people worried about ethics it's surprising that those same people continue to find out they're being lied to but told to believe the next lie and keep sending emails. Just keep following the drumbeat but never question who the drummer is.

There are so many inconsistencies and logical fallacies present in the line of thinking that is perpetuating the GamerGate thing that it gives me a headache.

 

[MYeager]

So TB really went on a stream with RogueStar? The guy saying stuff like this in Zoe Quinn IRC channels:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BznWTI0CIAAvaoM.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw1sO6ACAAAJ5Lc.png

http://i.imgur.com/FZB8vuM.png

The guy who was removed from the escapist article after it was revealed he has been going after Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/520689629469896704

That guy on twitter kept saying how he wanted to burn it all down, saying GamerGate doesn't have to end it can go after PAX, DragonCon, etc. I don't really understand what ethical issues that would require PAX, a fan run convention, would need to be burned down for. That guy has issues.

 

[CurlyW]

I had never heard of any of these people until two months ago.

 

[Nanashrew]

So TB really went on a stream with RogueStar? The guy saying stuff like this in Zoe Quinn IRC channels:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BznWTI0CIAAvaoM.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw1sO6ACAAAJ5Lc.png

http://i.imgur.com/FZB8vuM.png

The guy who was removed from the escapist article after it was revealed he has been going after Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/520689629469896704

Did TB even ask RogueStar about his failed Kickstarter when they hadn't released their previous game that succeeded from Kickstarter? I feel TB would have gotten heated talking about that.

 

[Kazerei]

Not really. I had no idea who Grayson was before this. Quinn is troublemaker girl and get stuff written on her. And she was on the spot light when Game Jam failed. People look at that. Grayson is really not on the radar of people. It's like comparing a starting celebrity with a journalist. Sure you wrote a lot of stuff, but nobody care about you, because you are not the article fuel.

Calling her a starting celebrity is a helluva stretch. There wasn't much talk about the Game Jam either, and Zoe wasn't the focal point of that debacle. Here's the GAF thread

Nathan Grayson's been writing for years, and he's written for The Escapist, GamePro, Maximum PC, PC Gamer, Rock Paper Shotgun, and of course Kotaku. There's no contest.

 

[partyphone]

Did TB even ask RogueStar about his failed Kickstarter when they hadn't released their previous game that succeeded from Kickstarter? I feel TB would have gotten heated talking about that.

but that's more about ethics in game production not game journalism and gamergate is all about ethics in game journalism so his shady past and record of awfulness has nothing to do with anything really

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Hmm, Totalbisicuit doing streams with InternetAristocrat, RalphRetort, Roguestar and Sargon of Akkad. There goes any remote shred of credibility he had of being a voice of reason.

Where does Mr. Bain confirm he's doing streams with these people? I don't see nothing in his more recent tweets.

 

[Nanashrew]

but that's more about ethics in game production not game journalism and gamergate is all about ethics in game journalism so his shady past and record of awfulness has nothing to do with anything really

Dang, you're right. My bad. I forgot this was about ｅｔｈｉｃｓ　ｉｎ　ｊｏｕｒｎａｌｉｓｍ．

 

[Corpekata]

Where does Mr. Bain confirm he's doing streams with these people? I don't see nothing in his more recent tweets.

The others tweeted about it and I jumped in for a few minutes, I don't think TB advertised it (probably with good reason). Jumped in for a few minutes and it was clearly him and he was using his youtube account in the chat.

 

[jstripes]

Not really. I had no idea who Grayson was before this. Quinn is troublemaker girl and get stuff written on her. And she was on the spot light when Game Jam failed. People look at that. Grayson is really not on the radar of people. It's like comparing a starting celebrity with a journalist. Sure you wrote a lot of stuff, but nobody care about you, because you are not the article fuel.

I never actually heard the name Zoe Quinn before all of this happened.

She was only a "celebrity" to people who already had a beef with her, for whatever reason may be.

Oh, and all these relatively unknown people #GG attacked and demonized? Congrats! They're now influential public figures in gaming.

 

[Buzzman]

Where does Mr. Bain confirm he's doing streams with these people? I don't see nothing in his more recent tweets.

He starts talking at 37 minutes in.

Edit: It feels surreal hearing them talk about how more people aren't speaking up for #GG because they're too afraid to suffer backlash. They're painting this as an issue where the "authoritative media" silences opposing viewpoints.

 

[Gattsu25]

He starts talking at 37 minutes in.

Oh, the "#GamerGate Tonight" stream. He also reads 8chan and /r/KotakuInAction

Cute.

 

[BokehKing]

I'm new to all of this, always see the threads, but never read them, until just now when I read something about Felicia Day basically getting harassed by people.

Here is what I know of Felicia Day
Founding member of AIE in World of Warcraft (Frogpants Podcast Network guild)
On some of my favorite episodes of Supernatural
On a few episodes of the Instance
That show 'The Guild" is pretty cool
Idk, she just seems like a really cool girl that also happens to play video games.

I don't understand why people have to be so disrespectful? What does this prove?

Is it just a problem with women in general? Everytime I try to read an article and figure out how it all started, the comments section just throws me off because its people saying some real outlandish stuff.

If I don't really read reviews of games or let them effect my life, does this effect me at all?
This whole gamer gate thing sounds like an extremist group, or has 'extremist' members with in it, do people on Gaf really support this type of stuff? I'm just baffled because the harassment of people in general just goes against everything my parents ever taught me.

Sincerely

a 35 year old guy who doesn't live in his parents basement that loves video games.

 

[Buzzman]

If I don't really read reviews of games or let them effect my life, does this effect me at all?
This whole gamer gate thing sounds like an extremist group, or has 'extremist' members with in it, do people on Gaf really support this type of stuff? I'm just baffled because the harassment of people in general just goes against everything my parents ever taught me.

Sincerely

a 35 year old guy who doesn't live in his parents basement that loves video games.

Don't worry, this thread is specifically for reporting on the latest terrible shit happening.

 

[Alcoremortis]

Yeah, most people here don't support it at all.

There's a very long post linked to in the OP that details everything that is wrong with the movement.

 

[JC Sera]

He starts talking at 37 minutes in.

Edit: It feels surreal hearing them talk about how more people aren't speaking up for #GG because they're too afraid to suffer backlash. They're painting this as an issue where the "authoritative media" silences opposing viewpoints.

I'm listening to this and its just
I don't know? I liked TB a lot and its just.
The "Macintosh" stuff, Anita being a "con-artist", "just a pretty face"
How they dismissed her arguments, and then her agency in her own words?
its just. Ugh.
Also saying Anita's videos are not critiqued? I've seen critiques and arguments brought up here and other blog websites.
Idk listening to this makes me feel queasy. Because these people sound reasonable while saying these things. And I finally got where the draw of GG comes from. And thats scary I suppose.

 

[call_kotaku]

So TB really went on a stream with RogueStar? The guy saying stuff like this in Zoe Quinn IRC channels:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BznWTI0CIAAvaoM.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw1sO6ACAAAJ5Lc.png

http://i.imgur.com/FZB8vuM.png

The guy who was removed from the escapist article after it was revealed he has been going after Jim Sterling: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/520689629469896704

The guy going off about prosecution and racketeering in the IGF long after it was debunked.

RogueStar, KingOfPol, MundaneMatt, the typical GG streaming crew. If he's in with them then I guess I misread him badly.

Yeah, it seems strange he'd do something so obviously damaging to his image, considering he has next to no stake in this.

I'm listening to this and its just
I don't know? I liked TB a lot and its just.
The "Macintosh" stuff, Anita being a "con-artist", "just a pretty face"
How they dismissed her arguments, and then her agency in her own words?
its just. Ugh.
Also saying Anita's videos are not critiqued? I've seen critiques and arguments brought up here and other blog websites.
Idk listening to this makes me feel queasy. Because these people sound reasonable while saying these things. And I finally got where the draw of GG comes from. And thats scary I suppose.

I think it gives a lot of younger people perspective on how conservative movements built around seemingly ridiculous notions are so common historically. Campaigning against the women's vote, or slavery, or civil rights, or gay rights, or immigration, etc., are all such transparently offensive and hateful movements, but the people at the time really convinced themselves that it's about something else.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I'm new to all of this, always see the threads, but never read them, until just now when I read something about Felicia Day basically getting harassed by people.

Here is what I know of Felicia Day
Founding member of AIE in World of Warcraft (Frogpants Podcast Network guild)
On some of my favorite episodes of Supernatural
On a few episodes of the Instance
That show 'The Guild" is pretty cool
Idk, she just seems like a really cool girl that also happens to play video games.

I don't understand why people have to be so disrespectful? What does this prove?

Is it just a problem with women in general? Everytime I try to read an article and figure out how it all started, the comments section just throws me off because its people saying some real outlandish stuff.

If I don't really read reviews of games or let them effect my life, does this effect me at all?
This whole gamer gate thing sounds like an extremist group, or has 'extremist' members with in it, do people on Gaf really support this type of stuff? I'm just baffled because the harassment of people in general just goes against everything my parents ever taught me.

Sincerely

a 35 year old guy who doesn't live in his parents basement that loves video games.

I'd say GAF and any rational human being doesn't support GGers.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Can someone explain to me the Felicia Day thing? She tweeted about crossing to the other side of the street when she some some dudes walking towards her with vidya shirts on. Is that it or is there more to that story?

 

[The Technomancer]

On my phone but read the full piece she wrote

 

[SZips]

Can someone explain to me the Felicia Day thing? She tweeted about crossing to the other side of the street when she some some dudes walking towards her with vidya shirts on. Is that it or is there more to that story?

Here's what she wrote about Gamergate and how it made her fear interacting with the people she used to embrace: http://thisfeliciaday.tumblr.com/post/100700417809/the-only-thing-i-have-to-say-about-gamer-gate

 

[JC Sera]

Can someone explain to me the Felicia Day thing? She tweeted about crossing to the other side of the street when she some some dudes walking towards her with vidya shirts on. Is that it or is there more to that story?

She posted this http://thisfeliciaday.tumblr.com/post/100700417809/the-only-thing-i-have-to-say-about-gamer-gate
Half an hour later she got Doxxed
Whether the Doxxing was #GG or not is unknown

 

[Buzzman]

I like how they're complaining about Nathan Grayson/Patricia Hernandez reporting on something Zoe Quinn did and since they're friends obviously this is despicable blabla

Because game developers have never gotten publicity from sites where they're friends with the journalists before right.

Edit: Now they're complaining about how they're playing victim by publishing the harassment they're getting.
"It's all benefitted them"
"No one's been ostracized"
"No one's been reprimanded for unethical behaviour"

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

Oooh, so this is why the last thread hasn't been updated in a few hours. Curse mobile jankiness.

I'd say GAF and any rational human being doesn't support GGers.

Yeah, this thread mostly serves to get the general stance out there and discuss the internet losing it's shit from every orifice.

 

[QuantumZebra]

She posted this http://thisfeliciaday.tumblr.com/post/100700417809/the-only-thing-i-have-to-say-about-gamer-gate
Half an hour later she got Doxxed
Whether the Doxxing was #GG or not is unknown

Pretty sure it wasn't an anti-GG person.

 

[JackDT]

I feel similarly to Felicia Day in that that up until GamerGate I did consider gaming culture to a welcoming and kind place. The last two months have been heartbreaking to see so many hurtful people who proudly claim to be defending the honor of gamers.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Here's what she wrote about Gamergate and how it made her fear interacting with the people she used to embrace: http://thisfeliciaday.tumblr.com/post/100700417809/the-only-thing-i-have-to-say-about-gamer-gate

She posted this http://thisfeliciaday.tumblr.com/post/100700417809/the-only-thing-i-have-to-say-about-gamer-gate
Half an hour later she got Doxxed
Whether the Doxxing was #GG or not is unknown

Just read it and she comes off very hyperbolic, which seems to be a trend on both sides.

 

[JC Sera]

Pretty sure it wasn't an anti-GG person.

It could have been a horrible #GG or anti-GG person, or some troll kicking up shit. I just don't want to go and point fingers, its hard enough when you point fingers at the stuff you can prove they did :T

Just read it and she comes off very hyperbolic, which seems to be a trend on both sides.

How is it hyperbole?

Spoiler

I won't dispute Anti-GG can get pretty hyperbole at times, but that article is not IMO.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Just read it and she comes off very hyperbolic, which seems to be a trend on both sides.

Try again with a little more empathy.

 

[SwissLion]

Oh man TB could not have put a worse foot forward in this stream with the Goobers.

"I support ethics in Games Journalism! Now lets talk for 20 minutes about how shitty Anita Sarkeesian is while intentionally misrepresenting her arguments! Huurbuurrduuuur."

 

[MHWilliams]

Websites need to start having a dialog about it instead of the occasional "here's the bad thing that #gamersgate probably did" article. It's not a matter of giving in. It's a matter of changing the standoffish and pompous attitude that (partially) led to this bubbling over in the first place.

Basically, journalists need to step up and take away the banner of "ethics in journalism" away from #gamersgate by .... SHOCK AND AWE ... discussing ethics in journalism, and not in the dismissive "we so ethics. no worries. nuthin behind dis curtain" rmanner we've seen so far.

I did already. Here and on my website. Not sure what's pompous about that.

Ignoring it and writing it off as "sexists trolls are the beginning and end of this whole thing" is why #gamersgate continues to exist.

GamerGate will continue to exist regardless. The movement has no clear goals, thus not all proponents will be satisfied.

I'm saying that journalists can de-claw #gamersgate by addressing some of their concerns head-on while still ostracizing the awful and illegal behavior being done by some people within #gamersgate

What concerns?

This is basic, basic shit, people. We're talking "go read True Believer from the '50s because a lot of you clearly don't get it" sort of stuff. I'm not trying to give credence for #gamergate's actions or even their philosophy on the matter. I am simply trying to point out that these things are out there and #gamersgate has teeth because its supporters believe they are true. It's not logical, but it doesn't have to be.

"Believe" being the clear word.

Meanwhile, #gamersgate is getting advertising pulled from websites, getting events cancelled (like Anita's recent university visit), doxxing, and making endless threats. Great job, anti-GGers! Slacktivism at its finest. What has actually been accomplished to slow down #gamersgate since it started ago? Mind you, it is the main talking point of anti-GGers that . If the #gamersgate message, behavior, and "true motive" has been the same for so long, how incompetent can people be, since nothing has really slowed it down at all.

That's why I advocate for journalists taking a head-on approach and addressing the years of underlying distrust that gives #gamersgate its teeth. It will be messy. But shouting "gamersgate is really bad and sexist" is going to do nothing, literally nothing.

Again, what concerns?

#gamergate don't give a shit about what you think. They thing that they are all about those things. And that's all that matters to them and it is why the movement will continue to have traction until that assumption is dismantled.

The assumption can never be dismantled, because of the "believe" part above. The assumption that because a movement exists that it's aims and beliefs are just seems incorrect.

Lemme repeat: the vast majority of #gamersgate supporters find these issues to be important.

Address issues = the vast majority of #gamersgate supporters are sated. Vast majority of supporters are sated = the radicals have no foundation to stand on. This is incredibly simple, but it requires journalists and the community at large to step down from the ivory tower and actually dig into this muck. I'm not talking about Quinnspiracy or whatever. I'm talking about tackling these feelings of distrust and apathy head-on and especially for journalists to start winning back their readers instead of telling them what to think.

If those issues aren't real for me, there's nothing I can fix. You see the problem here?

#gamersgate already identified its enemies both by actions and by words: feminism in gaming, "Social Justice Warriors", corrupt journalists, and a few others that I'm probably omitting but that's about it. Of course, not every single member of GG is against those things but that's what the group has been aligning itself against.

And social justice warriors is a category they broadly apply to many. And it requires that to compromise, you agree that the general idea of feminism as it relates to games is a bad thing.

 

[JackDT]

They aren't Anita's arguments -- don't you know she's just a sockpuppet for the man behind the curtain.

 

[Buzzman]

"They've got no sense of self-awareness at all, they have no idea how they look to people who aren't in their clique"

Oh god the irony

 

[Nanashrew]

"They've got no sense of self-awareness at all, they have no idea how they look to people who aren't in their clique"

Oh god the irony

Which one said that? I stopped listening to it cause it made me feel uneasy.

 

[JC Lately]

I feel similarly to Felicia Day in that that up until GamerGate I did consider gaming culture to a welcoming and kind place. The last two months have been heartbreaking to see so many hurtful people who proudly claim to be defending the honor of gamers.

This. I've been staring hard at the confirmation of my Pax South ticket and wondering if really want to go anymore.

 

[SwissLion]

Oh man and more "People were saying this movement was purely black and white 100% about harassment."

So far as I know, no, doofus, nobody was saying that. Characterising the movement as a misogynist mob isn't saying any of those things. Reading comprehension is your friend.

 

[udivision]

She posted this http://thisfeliciaday.tumblr.com/post/100700417809/the-only-thing-i-have-to-say-about-gamer-gate
Half an hour later she got Doxxed
Whether the Doxxing was #GG or not is unknown

Reading it and knowing what happened afterwards is just... ugh. How terrible.

 

[Fahrenheit]

How is it hyperbole?

Spoiler

I won't dispute Anti-GG can get pretty hyperbole at times, but that article is not IMO.

Right about here

Hearing that kind of stuff has kept me going, against the mainstream, against all odds

Keep in mind she's talking about how staring in geek culture shows/movies with only a passing correlation to video games gave gamers the strength to continue to identify as gamers. Which I find even more ironic being all the blogs called for the death of gamers.

 

[MYeager]

Just read it and she comes off very hyperbolic, which seems to be a trend on both sides.

Considering her fears were shown to be justified for getting doxxed right after talking about her worries it doesn't seem like hyperbole to me. Heck, Chris Kluwe invented to insults to call GamerGate and it didn't happen to him. Hard to call it hyperbole in hindsight.

 

[Alcoremortis]

They aren't Anita's arguments -- don't you know she's just a sockpuppet for the man behind the curtain.

I never got that argument.

If she's the sockpuppet, why would they attack her instead of whoever they believe is making the actual arguments? It doesn't even stand up to the barest levels of scrutiny.

 

[Odrion]

Where's this TotalBiscuit Stream?

 

[JackDT]

She's most famous for 'The Guild' an entire show around an MMO.

 

[Galactic Fork]

It could have been a horrible #GG or anti-GG person, or some troll kicking up shit. I just don't want to go and point fingers, its hard enough when you point fingers at the stuff you can prove they did :T

A woman gets harassed and her home address distributed, for speaking out against a group. A group that has a long line of women who coincidentally have their information distributed after they speak out... It could be anybody.

So what's more likely? Since it can literally be anybody, I vote on aliens... Or the Illuminati.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

She's most famous for 'The Guild' an entire show around an MMO.

No, no, that's just a "passing correlation" to gaming, apparently. So obviously she is a Fake Gaming Girl.

 

[MYeager]

Right about here



Keep in mind she's talking about how staring in geek culture shows/movies with only a passing correlation to video games gave gamers the strength to continue to identify as gamers. Which I find even more ironic being all the blogs called for the death of gamers.

Which ones actually called for gamers to be put to death? Because all the ones I read talked about the end of a stereotype for the demographic since gaming is now mainstream. But I'd love to read an article that actually called for the death of gamers because that's just ridiculous.

 

[Quote]

Just read it and she comes off very hyperbolic, which seems to be a trend on both sides.

Just read your post, and you come off very dismissive, which seems to be a trend on one side.

 

[JackDT]

Leigh Alexander clearly mentioned setting up firing squads for anyone playing games when she called for the death of gamers. I'm sure I read that.

 

[JC Sera]

A woman gets harassed and her home address distributed, for speaking out against a group. A group that has a long line of women who coincidentally have their information distributed after they speak out... It could be anybody.

So what's more likely? Since it can literally be anybody, I vote on aliens... Or the Illuminati.

Spoiler

tbh my main reason not to blame them is there is no way they could possibly be that stupid
and then I remember
#gamergate
itself
is a thing that exists

 

[Buzzman]

"They could've profited from this. If we're just thinking about bottom-line, if they had a neutral stance and let people fight over it they would've gotten increased traffic instead of boycotts. They could've made huge amounts of money"!

Yeah really weird how a lot of sites chose to pass up this opportunity to make more money jesus christ

Which one said that? I stopped listening to it cause it made me feel uneasy.

Sargon at 1:07:30

Where's this TotalBiscuit Stream?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g30jXK7ACqY