• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

GameStop (circa May 27th): NX will have physical media

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
I hope they reduce the size of the packaging down to the size of Vita games if the cartridge rumor pans out. That way they can fit more games within the small section that retailers give them these days and I can fit more on my shelf.
 

GaussTek

Member
Yeah, carts would be cool, and it's almost a given on a handheld... but, realistically speaking, why would they use carts on a home console when equivalent size Blu-ray discs are a lot cheaper?

Xenoblade Chronicles X is like ~22 GB on Wii U. Zelda BotW will surely be bigger or around that. They would need to use a 32GB+ cart to store a game that size. That surely would be more expensive than a double layered Blu-ray, right? Max cart size they've used on 3DS is 4GB... 8 times that to store a game like Zelda BotW sounds a lot to me (unless they use a crazy compression system).

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see carts instead of discs again on a home console, but I see it very complicated.
 
Soon
NES-Carts-BioShock-Image-e1317699558670.jpg
 
Well of course it would.

Retailers already go out of their way to minimize the shelf space of digital focused systems (One of the reason's behind the Vita's failure - And anyone notice how the WiiU really fell out of favor with retailers in-sync with Wind Waker HD's initial digital-only release?). The retail mafia would ensure a Digital Only system would be dead before arrival.
This is some next level tinfoil hat shite.
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Yeah, carts would be cool, and it's almost a given on a handheld... but, reallistically speaking, why would they use carts on a home console when equivalent size Blu-ray discs are a lot cheaper?

Xenoblade Chronicles X is like ~22 GB on Wii U. Zelda BotW will surely be bigger or around that. They would need to use a 32GB+ cart to store a game that size. That surely would be more expensive than a double layered Blu-ray, right? Max cart size they've used on 3DS is 4GB... 8 times that to store a game like Zelda BotW sounds a lot to me (unless they use a crazy compression system).

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see carts instead of discs again on a home console, but I see it very complicated.

Well, 32gb flash memory can be had as customer and with related USB periphery at roughly 5$ (Buying in low-key bulk, like 20-100 pieces)
50gb BDs go for roughly 2$ in the same scenario.
Assuming very large wholesale, media cost is probably around 2-3$ for flash memory (cartridge) and 1$ for BD.
Although, there's another matter to consider: BD readers are much costlier than practically-free flash drive connections, to the tune of ~10-15$ to free.

There's also the consideration that a custom port makes piracy that much harder, that not including a BD reader reduces space, weight, noise and power consumption of the console, and has much higher read speeds, meaning you don't need to install the game, meaning you don't need a 1tb drive inside the machine. Well, you still need it for digital purchases, but you can probably get away with a smaller one.

So... there's actually a chance.. if Nin wants a 32gb cartridge. If they want more, around 50-64gb, wholesale flash is probably around 5$, which makes it definitely unfeasible.
Even at 64gb, if they want to push for having their console as light and cheap as possible, it could make sense to bite the bullet on the per-copy cost.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Cartridges would do the opposite of both.
Not when you only have to make one physical media format for both the console & handheld. Macronix (the guys who make the 3DS cartridges) already hinted towards their involvement with the NX Platform by hyping up their relationship with Nintendo for this fiscal year.
 
Not when you only have to make one physical media format for both the console & handheld. Macronix (the guys who make the 3DS cartridges) already hinted towards their involvement with the NX Platform by hyping up their relationship with Nintendo for this fiscal year.
Discs are cheaper, so yeah it would still not cost less...


It's not a conspiracy if its true.
You can't actually believe this oh my god. Shelf space went because it didn't fucking sell lol.
 

udivision

Member
Not when you only have to make one physical media format for both the console & handheld. Macronix (the guys who make the 3DS cartridges) already hinted towards their involvement with the NX Platform by hyping up their relationship with Nintendo for this fiscal year.

Is there a reason why this wasn't interpreted as "the people making the 3DS handheld cartridges will indeed be making the NX handheld's cartridges" or something?
 

Oregano

Member
It depends on what costs they could save on shipping. Especially if they only had to ship one SKU for both handheld and console.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
I was hoping for digital only mostly because I wanted to have a version of Nintendo that is forward thinking/embracing the future ahead of everyone else but I guess it's not a total loss.

To me the key thing will always be that it needs to have ONE library and also not try to compete with Sony on the powerful home console front. Everything else is just details to me.

And have to pay full price almost all the time?

No thank you.
 
Cartridges would do the opposite of both.
No it wouldn't. If Nintendo told them it's one cartridge and that cartridge works the NX console and NX handheld, they would really like that opportunity.

Just imagine Square thinking "omg we can make FFVIIR for NX console and it can be played on NX handheld, which gamers in Japan already prefer-which means we get a ton more sales?? Where do I sign, Nintendo?!!"
 

Ansatz

Member
Now the question is, will there be a separate version of Smash Bros. 5 (one for console and one for handheld) or is it just one, and the cartridge inside the box works on any NX form factor?
 

nubbe

Member
I'm hoping for carts
being able to play the same media on both stationary and handheld would be awesome
 

geordiemp

Member
Cartridges for a hand held is the norm.

Cartridges for a console would be an issue for 3rd parties ?

What happens now is you put in your blu ray and that 45 GB game is uploaded onto hard drive. Day 1 patch comes out and that 5 GB is put on the hard drive and may replace some or part of the 45 GB.

The disk is no longer the game, its been changed and the game runs from hard drive. Both PS and Xbox work this way.

How would that work on cartridges ? Unless the cartridges upload the whole game to HD and the game plays from HD ?

Also cannot understand the power and noise arguments for Optical drives, they load once and the game runs from HD.
 
You can't actually believe this oh my god. Shelf space went because it didn't fucking sell lol.

Consoles given minimum shelf space and promotion due to digital focus tend not to sell, yes.

Cartridges for a hand held is the norm.

Cartridges for a console would be an issue for 3rd parties ?

What happens now is you put in your blu ray and that 45 GB game is uploaded onto hard drive. Day 1 patch comes out and that 5 GB is put on the hard drive and may replace some or part of the 45 GB.

The disk is no longer the game, its been changed and the game runs from hard drive. Both PS and Xbox work this way.

How would that work on cartridges ? Unless the cartridges upload the whole game to HD and the game plays from HD ?

Also cannot understand the power and noise arguments for Optical drives, they load once and the game runs from HD.

The point of a cartridge is the fast read speed of flash media, negating any need to install anything.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Discs are cheaper, so yeah it would still not cost less...
One of our own made a convincing argument on the whole thing. Not only would Nintendo stand to save money on production costs as a result of only having to make one physical medium instead of two, but they'd also stand to save money by not needing to have a disc drive in the NX Console. This would both cut down on the number of moving parts in the console itself & free up costs that could go elsewhere (such as possibly a better graphics chip, a stronger CPU, or more RAM). And while in theory, a shared platform using a disc would be the cheaper route from just manufacturing the disc itself, the PSP proved that such a route isn't exactly viable (not to mention the additional costs of adding a disc drive to a handheld).

Is there a reason why this wasn't interpreted as "the people making the 3DS handheld cartridges will indeed be making the NX handheld's cartridges" or something?
It mostly went below the radar. And if I recall, Macronix has just recently announced a 32GB ROM.
 

Oregano

Member
Cartridges for a hand held is the norm.

Cartridges for a console would be an issue for 3rd parties ?

What happens now is you put in your blu ray and that 45 GB game is uploaded onto hard drive. Day 1 patch comes out and that 5 GB is put on the hard drive and may replace some or part of the 45 GB.

The disk is no longer the game, its been changed and the game runs from hard drive. Both PS and Xbox work this way.

How would that work on cartridges ? Unless the cartridges upload the whole game to HD and the game plays from HD ?

Also cannot understand the power and noise arguments for Optical drives, they load once and the game runs from HD.

Seek times are low for cartridges so it wouldn't need to install and Vita/3DS already show how DLC and updates can work with a cartridge format.

The only issue is that cartridges are expensive and take quite a while to manufacture.

EDIT: The Macronix thing is mostly notable because the vast majority of signs point towards NX being a home consple. We 'he heard precious little about a handheld.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Is there a reason why this wasn't interpreted as "the people making the 3DS handheld cartridges will indeed be making the NX handheld's cartridges" or something?

Pretty much everyone takes that detail for granted. The thing is that there's nothing to say yet that they aren't also involved inter console. It isn't really direct evidence, but it provides a necessary condition for the universal cart theory.

Cartridges for a hand held is the norm.

Cartridges for a console would be an issue for 3rd parties ?

What happens now is you put in your blu ray and that 45 GB game is uploaded onto hard drive. Day 1 patch comes out and that 5 GB is put on the hard drive and may replace some or part of the 45 GB.

The disk is no longer the game, its been changed and the game runs from hard drive. Both PS and Xbox work this way.

How would that work on cartridges ? Unless the cartridges upload the whole game to HD and the game plays from HD ?

Also cannot understand the power and noise arguments for Optical drives, they load once and the game runs from HD.


Patches would work the same as on Wii U and 3DS. When searching for files, The OS looks at the patch data first.
 

Ansatz

Member
Cartridges ain't happening, keep dreaming.

If it does happen, how would you react? Would you say

a) I admit I was wrong
b) lol Nintendo has no clue

Usually b) happens when someone fails to predict Nintendo's next move correctly, I think it's a defense mechanism. Because then your post is less about "what I think they will do" and more "what I think they should do"
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Cartridges ain't happening, keep dreaming.
We still haven't heard anything from Panasonic about their involvement with Nintendo this year, yet Macronix has come forward mention their relationship with Nintendo in the near future. That's the only reason why people are speculating for cartridges (or game cards, to be more specific) right now.
 

Mariolee

Member
If it does happen, how would you react? Would you say

a) I admit I was wrong
b) lol Nintendo has no clue

Usually b) happens when someone fails to predict Nintendo's next move correctly, I think it's a defense mechanism. Because then your post is less about "what I think they will do" and more "what I think they should do"

Whichever one makes him look cooler without having any actual substance to his post most likely.
 

aaronwt

Member
What's crazy is how time (and in a way technology) can change something. In the mid 90s Nintendo got so much shit for sticking with cartridges for the N64, because CD-ROMS were the superior storage format.

Flash forward to 2016 and Nintendo releasing a console that takes some form of high speed cartridges could actually give its storage an edge over Blu-Ray speeds. And if they market themselves well it could actually come off as refreshingly retro to the masses.

What a time to be alive.

It's not like you are playing the game from a Blu-ray Disc. An optical drive is too slow. it is installed to the hard drive before playing.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
If it does happen, how would you react? Would you say

a) I admit I was wrong
b) lol Nintendo has no clue

Usually b) happens when someone fails to predict Nintendo's next move correctly, I think it's a defense mechanism. Because then your post is less about "what I think they will do" and more "what I think they should do"

I will freely admit when I am wrong. I never have any issues doing that. I don't think I have to in this case though.

The current cartridge ideas going around are mostly fan-constructed theories that completely gloss over even the most basic of limitations. Confirmation bias at it's finest.
Cost alone makes cartridges not viable for mass production similar to discs. Maybe Nintendo will prove me wrong but I doubt it.
 

Oregano

Member
I will freely admit when I am wrong. I never have any issues doing that. I don't think I have to in this case though.

The current cartridge ideas going around are mostly fan-constructed theories that completely gloss over even the most basic of limitations. Confirmation bias at it's finest.
Cost alone makes cartridges not viable for mass production similar to discs. Maybe Nintendo will prove me wrong but I doubt it.

Don't have to mass produce when you've got no games. ;)
 

Pokemaniac

Member
I will freely admit when I am wrong. I never have any issues doing that. I don't think I have to in this case though.

The current cartridge ideas going around are mostly fan-constructed theories that completely gloss over even the most basic of limitations. Confirmation bias at it's finest.
Cost alone makes cartridges not viable for mass production similar to discs. Maybe Nintendo will prove me wrong but I doubt it.

Nintendo still mass produces carts for their handhelds. They will still have to do this for NX. As long as they make sure they have a 64GB tier (which, worst case scenario, would probably only be one, maybe two, tiers beyond what they'd normally build out for their next handheld), those carts will be viable for use with consoles as well.
 
Top Bottom