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[Mesoian]

maybe if the cosplayers stopped being treated in such a way it'd help?

These guys actually are a real problem because the way they approach women is "we're going to ask you a few questions about the convention and your costume, is that okay?"

I have seem women storm off completely upset from their interviews before, and they still ended up using the footage from before she stormed off in the final video. These guys are just assholes and should be shamed because it makes everyone hesitant about participating in actually well shot, well cut, well edited con montages.

 

[PseudoKirby]

Ok I can finally post

maybe if the cosplayers stopped being treated in such a way it'd help?

I dont think its JUST that, the biggest problem here is this:

All these photo shoots/videos of cosplayers acting like this. Giving this image out that its some free for all. there are countless examples so I don't really see need fit of posting more than this hypocritical as hell image.



Its like an invitation to creeps that all this wild shit is going down and you wanna get in on it come by.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Here's my take on it: If you are dressed scantily, people are going to oggle. They can't help it. -BUT- taking in appropriate photos without permission, and grabbing, that shouldn't be tolerated. I know if I saw it Id start slapping some wrists. I feel like some con-goers don't really think about if its appropriate or not.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I have an idea what if we take all the movies, cosplay, videogames, tv shows, books and general fandoms out of this con and make it about comics.

Your "what if" scenario:

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I dont think its JUST that, the biggest problem here is this:

All these photo shoots/videos of cosplayers acting like this. Giving this image out that its some free for all. there are countless examples so I don't really see need fit of posting more than this hypocritical as hell image.

Its like an invitation to creeps that all this wild shit is going down and you wanna get in on it come by.

I really don't care for this kind of attitude. There are any of a number of issues that explain that photo that can range all the way from an innocuous explanation like "they were just being silly" all the way to more cynical explanations like "they're desperate for attention." But whatever the reason, the posed nature of the photo suggests that Rogue there doesn't mind Phoenix touching her ass. And that's fine. Whether they know each other or just developed an instant rapport, that was deemed okay. If I was there in that situation, I would not see that as an open invitation to grab her ass.

 

[wildfire]

Ok I can finally post






I dont think its JUST that, the biggest problem here is this:

All these photo shoots/videos of cosplayers acting like this. Giving this image out that its some free for all. there are countless examples so I don't really see need fit of posting more than this hypocritical as hell image.



Its like an invitation to creeps that all this wild shit is going down and you wanna get in on it come by.

That picture in no shape or form is an invitation. Your logic circuit needs to be replaced because it is clearly damaged.

The caption is "don't touch my butt"

By using a woman to demonstrate the act she is already declaring her comfort level by not having a man do it.

You can take the picture seriously or as a joke but regardless the point still stands. When people make jokes they do it be raising awareness of an issue.

Your biggest logic fail is that you equated this picture as contributing to the problem of people not knowing what is harassment with that asshole asking people who are trying to have a good time if they are strippers and all he can do is see them as body parts.


In those series of pictures the jackass was oblivious or didn't care about what ever the people he was interacting with were thinking.

In the other picture those 2 had an idea of what they wanted to do and agreed on it.

His message is focused solely on entertaining men who think like he does. Their message is much broader by targeting everyone regardless of their viewpoint to raise awareness of this topic.

 

[PseudoKirby]

I really don't care for this kind of attitude. There are any of a number of issues that explain that photo that can range all the way from an innocuous explanation like "they were just being silly" all the way to more cynical explanations like "they're desperate for attention." But whatever the reason, the posed nature of the photo suggests that Rogue there doesn't mind Phoenix touching her ass. And that's fine. Whether they know each other or just developed an instant rapport, that was deemed okay. If I was there in that situation, I would not see that as an open invitation to grab her ass.

I am not that I see it as that either, but there are many many people that see it otherwise.


and I am not just talking about that image as I said, there are dozens apon dozens of images or videos of "people being silly" but it can be interpreted so many ways.

Many socially undeveloped people can easily see these images and assume that its ok to do these things

That picture in no shape or form is an invitation. Your logic circuit needs to be replaced because it is clearly damaged.

The caption is "don't touch my butt"

By using a woman to demonstrate the act she is already declaring her comfort level by not having a man do it.

You can take the picture seriously or as a joke but regardless the point still stands. When people make jokes they do it be raising awareness of an issue.

Your biggest logic fail is that you equated this picture as contributing to the problem of people not knowing what is harassment with that asshole asking people who are trying to have a good time if they are strippers and all he can do is see them as body parts.


In those series of pictures the jackass was oblivious or didn't care about what ever the people he was interacting with were thinking.

In the other picture those 2 had an idea of what they wanted to do and agreed on it.
.

Again I am not saying that its MY logic I am just saying how it can generally be perceived, and my argument isn't just THAT picture. but thats the closest example I have.


and let me ask, with all this equality movement happening, its a bit backwards to talk about women being able to do these things but not men.


If anything its a whole bunch of confusion for a number of people.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Ok I can finally post






I dont think its JUST that, the biggest problem here is this:

All these photo shoots/videos of cosplayers acting like this. Giving this image out that its some free for all. there are countless examples so I don't really see need fit of posting more than this hypocritical as hell image.



Its like an invitation to creeps that all this wild shit is going down and you wanna get in on it come by.

Damn, dude. It feels like hundreds of people have chimed in here about how cosplayers aren't asking for anything and want to be treated respectfully, so this sort of thinking comes off so dated and ignorant.

I am not that I see it as that either, but there are many many people that see it otherwise.


and I am not just talking about that image as I said, there are dozens apon dozens of images or videos of "people being silly" but it can be interpreted so many ways.

Many socially undeveloped people can easily see these images and assume that its ok to do these things

Yeah, but why aren't you taking the creeps to task for it instead of calling people "hypocritical as hell"?

 

[PseudoKirby]

Yeah, but why aren't you taking the creeps to task for it instead of calling people "hypocritical as hell"?

I think that image is hypocritcal, but I guess I didnt think of the whiteboard being sort of like a dialogue bubble for what is being said, IDK I feel its backwards to try to make a message while performing the action with which the message is against.


I am not defending the creeps, I am just saying a lot can be done by both parties, comicon AND the attendees

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I am not that I see it as that either, but there are many many people that see it otherwise.


and I am not just talking about that image as I said, there are dozens apon dozens of images or videos of "people being silly" but it can be interpreted so many ways.

Many socially undeveloped people can easily see these images and assume that its ok to do these things

I feel like this is the sort of concern that completely misses the point. I don't think anyone misunderstands that socially awkward people exist that can't properly pick up on these cues, or that jerks exist. But we can either do one of two things: we can throw our hands in the air and conclude that this is unsolvable and come up with impractical solutions to impose modesty on women that probably also won't eradicate the problems completely either, or we can take more steps to crack down on this undesirable behavior. I favor the latter. I'm not saying that anything we propose can eliminate the problem with 100% efficacy, but I think we can have a more productive dialogue than just concluding that you can't fight city hall and calling it a day.

 

[Mesoian]

I am not that I see it as that either, but there are many many people that see it otherwise.


and I am not just talking about that image as I said, there are dozens apon dozens of images or videos of "people being silly" but it can be interpreted so many ways.

Many socially undeveloped people can easily see these images and assume that its ok to do these things

And those people would be in the wrong. Misinterpreting other people's experiences is not, nor ever will be, a valid reasoning for poor behavior.

 

[PseudoKirby]

And those people would be in the wrong. Misinterpreting other people's experiences is not, nor ever will be, a valid reasoning for poor behavior.

Again I am not validating ANYTHING, I am just thinking that this is an issue that everyone can work to qualm.


just picture a bunch of young frat dudes watching KassemG on youtube and thinking "awe dude its a free for all"



and I am sure he has consent and everything.

 

[Renzoku]

I don't think you ever have the right to touch someone against their will, or engage in straight up harassment/stalking, but picture taking at an event like a convention or really in any situation short of a crime scene seems fine and pretty harmless in my book.

And I mean, sexy costumes are going to garner attention, regardless of sex. Those Starfleet Bunny uniforms? You're going to get attention with those.

Should jackasses like that interviewer walk up to them and ask them how much a blowjob for the captain would cost? Of course not.

 

[Jado]

Was this posted? My GF told me she saw it on TMZ, but here's another news piece about it:

Adrianne Curry Describes Horrific Groping Incident at Comic-Con

She and her friend were groped in separate incidents. Video explains what happened.

I disagree that random men should do something -- not that a person shouldn't be a good Samaritan -- but because then it removes the blame on Comic Con for not having real, adequate security.

 

[Mesoian]

Was this posted? My GF told me she saw it on TMZ, but here's another news piece about it:

Adrianne Curry Describes Horrific Groping Incident at Comic-Con

She and her friend were groped in separate incidents. Video explains what happened.

I disagree that random men should do something -- not that a person shouldn't be a good Samaritan -- but because then it removes the blame on Comic Con for not having real, adequate security.

Everyone SHOULD do something. Security is obligated to do something.

And yeah, that's been making the rounds in my circles over the past few days. It's frustrating because Comic-con crowds are so big that simply turning a corner can cloak you well enough to get away scott free. She has my empathy, I probably would have beaten that guy senseless.

And I read the comments, and now I'm sad.

 

[Jado]

I would personally have done something, but it's plausible that encouraging and placing any priority on this can backfire. One way is by falsely removing pressure on management and giving them the impression that real security isn't needed because there are "enough" vigilant attendees to discourage bad behavior. In a sense, isn't that how the current problematic scenario came to be? They found enough unpaid, untrained goofballs who accept perks vs. hiring trained professionals that would really drive fear into idiots acting up.

Going back to the strip club example from earlier in the thread: such a place wouldn't do well without real security ready to pounce. Imagine instead having the place rely on patrons to stay sharp and intervene on guys crossing boundaries with dancers. Customers would be reluctant to go here if expected to fight drunk belligerent idiots, and the women would leave to work in a place that actually values their safety. It would just be an unsafe place for everyone.

 

[PseudoKirby]

maybe if the cosplayers stopped being treated in such a way it'd help?

Is that this guy?


it seems there are A LOT of people that do these styles of interviews and they make a lot of money on youtube. do the conventions get any of that money?

 

[RoninChaos]

It's always interesting for me to see stuff like this. If anything, I feel like we should be discussing the socialization of some people that leads to making groups of people feel uncomfortable and run with that subject. I think it would do a lot for conventions like comicon, and the inclusiveness of a lot of various groups of fans for different things (comics, games, etc). It's always the creeper douche bags fucking it up for everybody, and those fuckers permeate everything.

I'm probably a bit more sensitive to this since I'm in the fighting game community, and idiots like Aris and the like who have said that "Sexual harassment" is part of the community are the same folks who would be doing the crazy shit to make these people feel unsafe or unwanted.

Anyway, rant over.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Some of of the stuff is out of order for sure, but being pissed off because people want their photo with you in costume (sexy or not), kinda makes me think they're attending the wrong convention.

 

[G-Fex]

Is that this guy?


it seems there are A LOT of people that do these styles of interviews and they make a lot of money on youtube. do the conventions get any of that money?

That looks like the same douchebag.

I'd rather these guys be banned from the cons. All of them.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

Some of of the stuff is out of order for sure, but being pissed off because people want their photo with you in costume (sexy or not), kinda makes me think they're attending the wrong convention.

No one has insinuated that. Its about asking if you can take someone's photo. Not being pisses off because someone wants to take a photo with you.

 

[danwarb]

I think that makes a ton of sense.

Right now in their code of conduct they just have a single line that says "Harassing or offensive behavior will not be tolerated." Could probably stand to be a little more called out and descriptive on the page.

That covers harassing and offensive behaviour.

 

[Amir0x]

Ok I can finally post


I dont think its JUST that, the biggest problem here is this:

All these photo shoots/videos of cosplayers acting like this. Giving this image out that its some free for all. there are countless examples so I don't really see need fit of posting more than this hypocritical as hell image.

Its like an invitation to creeps that all this wild shit is going down and you wanna get in on it come by.

That's the BIGGEST problem? Two friends fucking around with one another? That is an invitation to creeps somehow? And these two friends should somehow have to curb their behavior so as not to give the creeps the 'wrong impression'?

This is sounding uncomfortably similar to the old refrain about rape. "I'm not saying what he did was right. Of course it wasn't. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't put yourself in that situation where you're drunk and dressed like that."

 

[besada]

That covers harassing and offensive behaviour.

The issue is that clearly many attendants don't understand what harassing and offensive behavior is.

 

[PseudoKirby]

That's the BIGGEST problem? Two friends fucking around with one another? That is an invitation to creeps somehow? And these two friends should somehow have to curb their behavior so as not to give the creeps the 'wrong impression'?

This is sounding uncomfortably similar to the old refrain about rape. "I'm not saying what he did was right. Of course it wasn't. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't put yourself in that situation where you're drunk and dressed like that."

Again I am not saying this one picture is the whole problem, if you look this kind of behavior is seen ALL over youtube and image websites. and no one is to say the actions arent consensual, but the image this portrays of what the convention is and what is conducted there.

my point about the image in specific is that its a bit hypocritical, its like if you used an image of two friends knocking the shit out of each other for a message about not fighting.

 

[G-Fex]

I don't know. I think some dingus dressed as deadpool going around slapping girls asses just...I don't like it. Consented or whatever its just I don't know.

 

[Volimar]

They're probably afraid something like this will happen.

http://test-your-luck.tumblr.com/post/93108872458/if-you-went-to-san-diego-comic-con-or-know-anyone

IF YOU WENT TO SAN DIEGO COMIC CON OR KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS, PLEASE READ.

One of my dearest friends was found on the side of the road, unconscious and bloody. She was wearing this cosplay on the day it happened. She was last seen with friends when she ran off after a disagreement. Please, please, please, if you have ANY information or saw her anywhere, contact her mother. The full information is down below. This isn’t okay and it’s sickening to know that this happened at a place people truly can enjoy themselves. Please spread the word.

”I just received a call from the San Diego Police Department and my daughter Emily Weyer aka Milly Makara was found on the side of the road covered in blood with no ID unconscious. They are unsure what happened to her. My husband is on his way to the police station and then the hospital. If you have any information on what happened to her please send me a facebook message or call me at 951 229 3394. Thank you in advance”. -JILL WEYER

Poor girl.

 

[G-Fex]

yeah but supposedly that was outside of SDCC according to the other thread.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Again I am not saying this one picture is the whole problem, if you look this kind of behavior is seen ALL over youtube and image websites. and no one is to say the actions arent consensual, but the image this portrays of what the convention is and what is conducted there.

I just feel like this is ultimately a disingenuous stance that seeks to take responsibility away from people that are guilty of harassing others. The fact that some people can grope someone while others can't, for instance, doesn't present us with a difficult situation in terms of understanding how these interactions work. If I walk into a club and see some dude bumping and grinding on a woman on the dance floor, I don't infer from this that I can do the same to her automatically if that guy goes to the bar or something.

my point about the image in specific is that its a bit hypocritical, its like if you used an image of two friends knocking the shit out of each other
for a message about not fighting.

First of all, it's asinine that you highlighted this photo as THE biggest problem in regards to this discussion. Second of all, you didn't even allow for any context surrounding it. Yes, I understand that the sign contradicts what the other woman is doing there which may seem hypocritical at first glance, but I also think you may be reading too much into it in terms of the conclusions you think we can draw from it.

 

[besada]

my point about the image in specific is that its a bit hypocritical, its like if you used an image of two friends knocking the shit out of each other for a message about not fighting.

We sometimes call the juxtaposition of two competing concepts humor. Most people are capable of understanding that.

 

[Lashley]

Poor girl. Hope the catch the fuck(s) who did it.

 

[Volimar]

yeah but supposedly that was outside of SDCC according to the other thread.

Looks like. Which thread are you talking about? Trying to find out more info.

 

[G-Fex]

Looks like. Which thread are you talking about? Trying to find out more info.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=123228515

It's really vague, could've been just outside the bar or down the street.

I think i've seen her pics before.

 

[anaron]

Ok I can finally post

I dont think its JUST that, the biggest problem here is this:

All these photo shoots/videos of cosplayers acting like this. Giving this image out that its some free for all. there are countless examples so I don't really see need fit of posting more than this hypocritical as hell image.



Its like an invitation to creeps that all this wild shit is going down and you wanna get in on it come by.

um wow

just what else are you entitled to exactly

 

[Hero]

maybe if the cosplayers stopped being treated in such a way it'd help?

This guy is a piece of shit.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

This guy is a piece of shit.

Just as an honest question, I'm not familiar with this guy at all. Is he as bad as these images appear, or is there extra context that would make it humorous? Specifically, I'm asking if there's any self-deprecating, Conan O'Brien-esque angle here wherein he completely owns up to being creepy and awkward, or is he just a straight up asshole as the images indicate?

 

[Hero]

Just as an honest question, I'm not familiar with this guy at all. Is he as bad as these images appear, or is there extra context that would make it humorous? Specifically, I'm asking if there's any self-deprecating, Conan O'Brien-esque angle here wherein he completely owns up to being creepy and awkward, or is he just a straight up asshole as the images indicate?

Honest answer, I've never meet him personally and while usually I have reservations about making judgment on people I haven't met, I heard a couple of friends had a run in with him over the weekend and said he was an asshole. Similarly, this last year at PAX East another friend of mine reported to con security about a group of video "interviewers" doing almost the same exact thing and they were still around the convention the rest of the time doing the same thing to other women.

People like this do nothing positive for the community.

 

[Mesoian]

Just as an honest question, I'm not familiar with this guy at all. Is he as bad as these images appear, or is there extra context that would make it humorous? Specifically, I'm asking if there's any self-deprecating, Conan O'Brien-esque angle here wherein he completely owns up to being creepy and awkward, or is he just a straight up asshole as the images indicate?

Usually when you go this angle for humorous videos, you tell the subject what the tone of the interview will be.

This guy doesn't.

 

[G-Fex]

Honest answer, I've never meet him personally and while usually I have reservations about making judgment on people I haven't met, I heard a couple of friends had a run in with him over the weekend and said he was an asshole. Similarly, this last year at PAX East another friend of mine reported to con security about a group of video "interviewers" doing almost the same exact thing and they were still around the convention the rest of the time doing the same thing to other women.

People like this do nothing positive for the community.

That's what I figured.


I traced the pics back to this video one woman talks about creeps like this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4OZXOnbmRE

He sounds like a real scumbag