iHaunter
Member
Some of the best games of any generation. What're you going on about?
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Hermen Hulst: PlayStation is “Reevaluating how we operate” in light of the recent layoffs
ProtoByte
Member
Someone's had a bitter few years console warring. What the hell does being "arrogant with their 1st parties" even mean?
Homogenized Western trope trash? Hmm. What are the Japanese "vibes" you're after? Because talking of tropes and homogenization, it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that the Japanese game industry isn't largely doing the same thing it's been doing for more than 25 years.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Has that worked well for MS? They’ve been doing day and date releases on PC now for close to a decade now and their numbers haven’t gone up. I don’t know where this myth that releasing games day and date on PC leads to massive profits and revenue growth.
Look, I own a nice PC and I double dip all the time to play games like Ratchet and Clank on it but this idea that Sony launching their AAA single player games day and date will lead to an upsurge in profits and revenue is total fiction with no real world evidence to back it up. We didn’t see anything of the sort from Microsoft and there’s no evidence we will see huge revenue and profit growth with Sony if they do the same. In fact, it would make people like me that own a PS5 and a high-end PC get rid of our PS5s and PSN and move all our purchases from PS Store to Steam or Epic Store, while also killing double dip and hardware revenue.
People using Helldivers 2 as an example of Sony releasing a day and date PC game are being disingenuous as HD2 is a AA GAAS game completely different from the pricing model of Sony’s AAA single player games that will also be vulnerable to piracy. People using Helldivers 2 as an example also fail to recognize the first Helldivers also released day and date on PC and wasn’t noticed by most PC gamers. Helldivers 2 is wildly successful because it’s a unique and great experience that fills a void that current AAA GAAS shooters aren’t filling and not because it released on PC day and date.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
the gaming industry is clearly defined by it's markets.
the "shifts" are different for each
I don't think there is a course correction per se but a way to figure out a cheaper, more efficient and productive way to produce Single player AAA games AND an internal pipeline to ensure a greater success rate for GaaS games.
sony is literally the strongest company positioned to deal with this shit.
Stooky
Member
Killjoy-NL
Member
Somehow, some people still think MS is ahead of the curve, when in fact Xbox is the prime of example of why Playstation and Nintendo should not take that approach.
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CityHunter1981
Member
Hope they come to their senses and realize that it’s not a good idea to have so many GAAS games in the pipeline.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Helldivers 1 was not day and date on PC. It came out later that year in 2016.
If this was years ago nobody on earth would had guessed there would tons of PC ports, day one gaas and even their PSVR 2 is getting PC support soon. So even their hardware is trending over. And definitely no MLB baseball games on Xbox or switch either.
The only ecosystem thing left are big day one SP games on PC.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Maybe they had so many in the pipeline because they expected some to fail.
We now have 3 confirmed as being canceled?
Factions, Twisted Metal and that other game from Firesprite or London Studios.
Falls in line with what Sony recently stated, that they reduced the number of GaaS titles in development.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
They knew that. But as one of their execs said years ago when their PowerPoints showed a big focus on gaas games, “all it takes is one successful game to cover the rest”.
And Helldivers 2 might be that game. Destruction all stars flopped, deviation studio game cancelled, Lou online cancelled, twisted metal online cancelled, and that MP fantasy game in development at Sony London studio is gone too as the studio is shut down. So going by the dice rolling, the exec is right. 1 good one so far.
fart town usa
Gold Member
Yea, I'm console warring over retro video games and PSVR2. Get a grip. You act like I'm the one who fired 900 people due to mismanagement brought on by arrogance. Quite the opposite, I bought someone gold today.
The hype and exclusivity for Stellarblade and FF7r shows that plenty of PS5 owners want some Asian flare with Sony's backing. Like we had with the two consoles that made Sony an absolute juggernaut; PSX and PS2.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Killjoy-NL
Member
Good thing Playstation gets both Western and Asian games then.
Both bases covered.
Aces High
Member
Sony's 1st-parties don't listen to their fans.
Even worse:
They're dismissing criticism by suggesting that any negative feedback stems from the critics' moral failings.
"Oh you don't like our She-Hulk teenager that can kill your favorite male character with bare hands? You misogynist!"
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Actually we are both wrong. I went to check now to verify and Helldivers 1 launched on PS3, PS4, and Vita back in March 2015 and PC in December 2015. Anyways, that was only months apart and significantly less than Sony’s usual current release schedule for PC ports of their games and it was largely unnoticed, making my point still stand.
You still haven’t addressed the main point of my post. MS launching day and date games hasn’t helped them. What makes you think Sony following the same plan will yield different results? Forget about the current porting schedule they use now as I think it helps them with double dippers like myself. I’m asking how does completely removing the wait time for PC ports help Sony generate more revenue and profits when it didn’t do a damn thing to help MS?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Maybe you should ask the execs.
If this was years ago there would be zero pc ports, day one gaas, no upcoming PSVR2 pc support and zero mlb games on competing platforms. There would also be zero Nixxes buy out, and no PC PS publishing studio either.
Yet here we are.
They are already three quarters around the track. The last stretch are day one sp games.
If doing all this stuff doesn’t help Sony they wouldn’t be doing it.
ProtoByte
Member
As much as I would like to blame him for that, it's nothing to do with Hulst.
I think gaming is just plateauing with the numbers, and a big reason they rose is because they've become more realistic. People can sit there pretending aesthetics don't matter, but it's a ridiculous idea to suggest that games can go back looking like the did in the PS3 era and still be successful.
I don't think that conditioning players to accept higher prices would take too much effort though. If Nintendo can get away with sticky premium pricing with the caliber of games they release, there's room to grow.
They've probably cancelled the majority of the major new ones at this point.
London Studios fantasy IP
TLOU Online
Spiderman online
Twisted Metal
Probably Horizon online
Only ones left are Helldivers, Marathon, Concord and Fairgame$.
Doesn't answer my question and has very little to do with the claim.
I mean... you just said it yourself. Sony is satiating whatever demand there is for these games. They're not ignoring it. They've gone out of their way to sign deals to sustain the image.
That being said, I do not think the actual numbers really indicate that Japanese games are the difference maker in leagues of success. For all the hyper behind the most seminal JRPG of all time getting reimagined, 7Remake only managed 7 million units over 3 years. Pretty sure that's slower than FF15. That's less and slower than Days fucking Gone of all games.
It isn't insignificant, and Sony shouldn't neglect them, but the ugly truth is that most of the Japanese sector that hasn't "westernized" their approach has fallen behind, still stuck in PS2-era success. You say Sony was a juggernaut, but look at rhe actual sales of those games back then.
The ones that have superceded those boundaries, like the Persona's and Yakuza's of the world, have managed to do so with endless porting and much less competition from other Japanese devs. Either because their games are too boilerplate even for the fandom that they cater to, or because they've died out.
The rest, ie Monster Hunter or Resident Evil, are not the typical "Japanese" title, and internal documents show that it's no accident on Capcom's part.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
LOL, you are still not addressing my point. Again, I believe their current strategy is the best. I don’t give a shit what they were doing 10 years ago as the videogames market is an evolving market just like every other market in technology.
The current strategy they are using now works, it gets people like me to get PS5s to play their games a year or two early. I subscribe to PSN and even end up buying a few multiplats I wouldn’t otherwise buy from their store even though I own a PC that can play those games way better. A couple of years later I end up buying those same games again for my PC. I even own a PSVR2 despite the fact I have a perfectly working Oculus Quest headset for my PC. If GT7 was a day one game on PC would I spend my money on a PSVR2 for my PS5? I very much doubt that.
Again, their current model baits people like me that hate waiting for games to come to PC. You haven’t explained to me how releasing their games day one on Steam or Epic Store will generate more profits and revenue for them when it would end up killing the double dipping market of gamers like myself. The strategy of day and date hasn’t worked for MS and there’s no evidence it will work for Sony. Your argument is that they are already doing staggered releases (which actually work in their favor), and that they should go all the way and do full day one releases which actually hasn’t worked for MS, with nothing specific to back up your claims.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Not everyone is a double dipper. Youre a hardcore Sony gamer who will buy anything from double dipping to PSVR.
Nothing they can do will make me buy a PS system but they can get revenue from me. Since Helldivers 2 looks like a good game thinking about getting it later when the servers are sorted out, and since steam says it has Xbox controller support. I’ll play it my 4070 pc.
If you really think Sony is doing Pc ports with the focus being double dippers like yourself you’re crazy.
That’s why their gaas games are day one. Big incremental sales instead walling it off hoping pc gamers buy a PS. They won’t.
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FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I’m not a hardcore Sony gamer, I’m a hardcore gamer, period. I spend way more money on PC gaming and peripherals. My 4090 alone costs more than PS5 and PSVR2 combined. Just because you disagree with my logic doesn’t make me a hardcore “Sony gamer” or whatever the fuck that is.
I never mentioned anything about GAAS, don’t put words in my mouth. GAAS games releasing day and date on PC makes a lot of sense since GAAS games benefit more from a larger pool of players day one. Sony’s bread and butter isn’t GAAS games though, it’s their single player AAA games and there’s no evidence out there that releasing them day one on PC where they can easily be pirated will generate more revenue. You're also failing to account for the revenue loss that Sony would get from people not having to buy their consoles or hardware peripherals, plus the even bigger loss of losing PS Store users and subscribers from their online platform.
All I see from posts like yours is baseless conjecture. We have actual evidence in front of us that Sony’s current model works. The model you want them to follow is Microsoft’s model, which is a total failing model. Two of the most successful console brands, Sony and Nintendo do not release their games day and date on PC. The only one that does is MS, and they are also the only ones with struggling hardware sales and brand irrelevance.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Like it or not there’s tons of Pc ports, day one gaas and even PSVR Pc support coming soon. Heck, even mlb the show is on Xbox and switch day one.
I know it’s killing you inside, but the time will come day one sp games launch on pc and you know it. Gaas already are.
Killjoy-NL
Member
This.
Sony wants people in their eco-system, but it's primarily on console where they achieve this.
That's what Yoshida was talking about when he said Playstation is the core of their business.
You don't get people within said eco-system by releasing everything on PC as well, especially not day 1.
Releasing games on Xbox is even the dumbest idea suggested by some Gaffers.
Killjoy-NL
Member
You clearly haven't been listening to what Sony has said:
No day 1 for singleplayer games and Playstation consoles are the core of their business.
Over the 4 past years, at least 4 top executives came out to state this.
This whole discussion is similar to #SonyToo irt always-online DRM and to this day, Sony has made no attempt to implement it for 2 gens now, nor will they next-gen.
Sony has always been very straightforward with their strategies and what they will/won't do.
But maybe people have been swallowing Spencer's BS for so long, they assume all executives are like him.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
This guy can't be serious. Why would it "kill me inside" when I already do most of my gaming on PC and I'm far more invested in PC gaming? You sound like a system warrior lol. You can't come up with any argument to back up your claims so your tactic now is trying to insinuate that I'm some kind of "Sony gamer/super fan" that also happens to game on a $3000+ PC and is scared that he will be "forced" to play his PS5 games on his 4090? Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy lol. At least I've found someone to add to my ignore list.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
And if you asked any Sony exec in 2019 if there would any giant wave of Pc ports coming soon you’d get all of them denying it. Insomniac even quipped on Twitter Spider-Man will never go to pc. It sure did. Spider-Man and MM.
Killjoy-NL
Member
2019, you say?
Multiplayer PlayStation games will come to PC and other devices says Sony's Shawn Layden
Wonder when they'll show up.
www.windowscentral.com
PC (in a way more aggressive push) and Cloud are credible options
And yet an RTX 3070 PC from 2020 will still handily run everything until the generation ends in 2028.
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MaulerX
Member
Developing for multiple platforms will increase cost, but only incrementally. Artists aren’t going to rebuild assets for multiple platforms. It’s the same story, same quests etc, same physics, mostly the same scripts etc. You hire a few more QA folks and use largely the same resources.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Sony has had multi billion dollar grabd fate order piling up gamers and sales on mobile.
But for whatever reason they don’t want to make another attempt at another mobile game that’s made something like $4 billion sales. Then again that game is part of their music division oddly enough.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Why would they make another when it is a live service game?
Also, it isn't odd that Sony Music produces this game. Sony Music owns Aniplex, it's an Aniplex anime, they contracted a company to make a game based on the anime, they eventually bought the studio who made the game.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Guys I know this post was dramatic but if you’re a PlayStation fan looking forward to multiplayer experiences it’s tough these days. Also RIP the VR users
StueyDuck
Member
AAA games have been needing this shot in the arm to get games back on track to what they should be...
Fun.
Smaller teams, less riff raff at the studios with DEI and community managers and so on, less padding and placating to people and absolutely less resting on your studios laurels and previous works (I'm looking at you bethesda).
Just a team of passionate game developers first and foremost making something they want to play.
You barely feel any passion when starting up a new AAA game today. Almost all AAA games feel like the gaming equivalent of a marvel movie..
Yup even your favorite game over the last few years that you are about to quote comment, that one feels that way too.
Fun.
Smaller teams, less riff raff at the studios with DEI and community managers and so on, less padding and placating to people and absolutely less resting on your studios laurels and previous works (I'm looking at you bethesda).
Just a team of passionate game developers first and foremost making something they want to play.
You barely feel any passion when starting up a new AAA game today. Almost all AAA games feel like the gaming equivalent of a marvel movie..
Yup even your favorite game over the last few years that you are about to quote comment, that one feels that way too.
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AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
MS have also been giving legal access to their day one releases via $1 trials for years on end and their platform exclusives sell nowhere near what Sony's do. Forget ball park, it's a different sport.
It's an inevitability. Not that long ago the idea of Sony having a PC presence at all was crazy. Now we get year-later ports and day one multiplayer releases. The market's only getting bigger and harder to ignore.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
The reason is easy to understand. It's the sick logic of people who hire Sweet Baby Inc. as advisors. Playstation Studios would not make games where you pull for sexy anime girls even if it turned out their most profitable one. FGO could have been Sony's Genshin Impact if the people who make decisions were not so deep in their bullshit ideology.
Sony is not listening to their fans but pandering to people who hate the videogame industry. The abandonment of Days Gone and Bloodborne speaks volumes. I hope these incompetent execs leave the company before they sink it altogether.
Carmen Winstead
Member
Sold my PS5 yesterday. I think I will also be reevaluating what I'm gonna spend my time and money on. At least until GTA VI.
This is really the worst console generation ever. All major players getting major Ls.
This is really the worst console generation ever. All major players getting major Ls.
Killjoy-NL
Member
What abandonment of Bloodborne?
Days gone was an okay game, I guess. Haven't played it, tbh.
Tried to start playing it twice, as it came with PS+ Collection, but the way the motorbike handled was so mediocre it made me quit straightaway, twice.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
I'm not a fan, but it sold 9 million copies. When a game sells that much you make a second part. It's business sense. Instead, Bend is working on an unknown project for how many years already? I don't know how good it will be, but I'm confident to say that it won't sell that much.
As for Bloodborne, they have remastered/remade a bunch of games except for the most wanted one. I understand that From must be the one to develop a new game, but Blue Point could have worked on the remake as they did with Demon's Souls.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Both are pre - 2015 ... after that the social/political madness blew up and the diversity hires, inclusion, wokeness and all that shit started to take over the western entertainment/midia and took progressive priority. People roll their eyes and think is bullshit.. but there is no way that any high quality thing can continue to come if you dont hire anymore based on merit, if your storys has to check boxes and appeal to "modern audiences" whatever the fuck this means, talent and creativity being thrown out the window for inclusion and ideas from a bizarre bubble.
People laughing at the purple forum... think why devs post there and not here... cant imagine some conversations in a dev office in California being too different from the ones at reeee nowdays.
Killjoy-NL
Member
You could be right, but Bend isn't a major studio for Sony, so I don't expect them to release a flagship title.
But you never know, ofcourse.
Don't forget that Demon's Souls was a PS3 game that was released with limited copies.
Bloodborne will likely get a remake/remaster at some point, but it also isn't a flagship title, so I don't think Sony considers it a priority.
Anyway, apart from Dark Souls, there have been no sequels from FROM since they made Demon's Souls.
Unless I'm unaware of any other release.
They're also busy with Elden Ring.
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Games Bookstore
Member
They're likely still alive
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Jim Ryan leaves no witnesses.
veterangamerUK
Member
If they get any slower they’ll be going into reverse
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
GamePass didn't exist in 2016 when MS started porting games day one to PC. Their games were full priced then and there was no massive increase in revenue and profits for MS. The $1 excuse doesn't hold any water as even when they were full priced MS didn't see a surge in revenue and profits.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
2016 we're talking what, two poorly received franchise titles and a good Forza Horizon game? 8 years ago. The landscape has changed a lot in that time. Google searches for "gaming PC" have almost tripled at their peak since then, Twitch users have doubled etc. What happened then makes little difference. To put things in perspective, the Horizon PC port has sold 3.3m alone - what did Gears 4 do across both platforms back in 2016? More than 3.3, but it doesn't get much more flagship than Gears.
I don't know why you've used the word "massive" multiple times now, the profits don't need to be "massive" to make it worth it. This is the company that just released the PSVR2 and Playstation Portal. If they think they can make more money releasing day 1 on PC than before, then they will, all there is to it. That might not be right now, it might not be in the next few years, but it's inevitable. The ship is steering increasingly in that direction.
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Little Chicken
Member
BobLeeSwagger
Member
Either way, why would anyone want to invest in this?
As someone that looks at financials on a daily basis for a different industry, you’re better off putting that $200M+ into other investments that gives you a better return for your buck.