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[Dunan]

Excuse me, doesn't everyone? I totally expect the majority of the world's population find their very own nation/country the best without any shred of doubt. How is that even a speciality of Japan at all?

I was born in New York and many of us New Yorkers think of our city as the Capital of the World -- the difference with Japan is that you can become a New Yorker the day you move there, whereas it's very, very difficult for someone who wasn't born Japanese to ever be considered Japanese. Debito struggles with it all the time.

And as a 14-year resident of Japan, I would like to identify as a member of my adopted society more, but Japanese society will always consider me as being from my birthplace. It's unfortunate, but at least the place I come from is a place I wouldn't mind going back to if I had to.

 

[BocoDragon]

I was born in New York and many of us New Yorkers think of our city as the Capital of the World -- the difference with Japan is that you can become a New Yorker the day you move there, whereas it's very, very difficult for someone who wasn't born Japanese to ever be considered Japanese. Debito struggles with it all the time.

And as a 14-year resident of Japan, I would like to identify as a member of my adopted society more, but Japanese society will always consider me as being from my birthplace. It's unfortunate, but at least the place I come from is a place I wouldn't mind going back to if I had to.

The thing is.... Japan never said they are a multi-culture or a melting pot.

Perhaps they should become one? Perhaps it's just an inevitable mark of a developed society that they should someday transition to one?

But I do think it's worth making the point that the Japanese, as a society, have never once implied to any other culture or ethnicity that they are welcome to blend into the country. All of their official policies imply that Japan is for Japanese ethnicity/culture.

This is different than USA, Canada, Australia, and most European nations. The reason why we can demand to be treated as welcome guests in these countries is because it has been implied to us that these nations are not supposed to be the home of any one culture. Japan has clearly stated otherwise for their nation.

 

[XenoRaven]

Could this hurt sales of upcoming games from PG? Be forgotten? Do they think there is no need for an official statement or damage control?

I want people to speak their minds but when one gets to the point where it seems like they're just insulting an entire group, an entire group of potential customers, I can fully undersand people not wanting to buy a product from said person or the company they work for. I'm still on board for Bayonetta 2 since he isn't working on it seems. Wonderful 101 is the game directed by Kamiya. That's giving me pause now.

Is it really? Is Wonderful 101 somehow less fun now? There are way worse things happening at the upper echelons of companies you probably purchase products from every day. This little issue gets brought to your attention, with little indication as to whether or not Kamiya is actually a racist, or is just insulting stupid people who seem to deserve it, and you're considering not buying a game from one of the most talented development studios around right now? Does it even really matter if he is a racist? Are you going to attempt to evaluate his twitter posts to see if he is truly a hateful racist person or just a product of his environment that just needs to be educated?

I mean I'm not you, but if I were, I'd pick my battles and just fucking buy Wonderful 101.

 

[Datschge]

I was born in New York and many of us New Yorkers think of our city as the Capital of the World -- the difference with Japan is that you can become a New Yorker the day you move there, whereas it's very, very difficult for someone who wasn't born Japanese to ever be considered Japanese. Debito struggles with it all the time.

And as a 14-year resident of Japan, I would like to identify as a member of my adopted society more, but Japanese society will always consider me as being from my birthplace. It's unfortunate, but at least the place I come from is a place I wouldn't mind going back to if I had to.

Right. The problem is how receptive and adaptive the surrounding is to new things. The fact is, besides cultural melting pots (which most often are popular metropolis, NYC being one of the prototypes of such) thrive on multiculturalism non-native minorities will always have a harder time getting into the inner circles of local populations. There are few smaller cultures where new things are readily integrated (historically to the detriment of most of them) but for most cultures "culture" is a mean to separate "us" from "them". Japan is, and most importantly also sees itself as a very homogeneous society, taking pride of that attribute (something they took over in the imperialist age of nation building). Fortunately every human has the ability to self-perception and self-reflection and break out of it.

I hope you can find many progressive friends in your surrounding. The whole concept of society is an inherently conservative, defying it can be very rewarding.

 

[Perkel]

lol at people thinking Kamiya is racist.

"Yeah those fucking foreigners are fucking annoying" after litelary xx posts about random shit he recives is to polite in my opinion.

 

[idlethreats]

I was born in New York and many of us New Yorkers think of our city as the Capital of the World -- the difference with Japan is that you can become a New Yorker the day you move there, whereas it's very, very difficult for someone who wasn't born Japanese to ever be considered Japanese. Debito struggles with it all the time.

And as a 14-year resident of Japan, I would like to identify as a member of my adopted society more, but Japanese society will always consider me as being from my birthplace. It's unfortunate, but at least the place I come from is a place I wouldn't mind going back to if I had to.

You're talking about the culture of one city being accepting versus the culture of an entire country - it's not really a fair comparison. If you compared Japan to the country of NYC, the United States, I think you'd find that the reality is that many, many people who immigrate to the USA are perpetually treated like foreigners, no matter how long they (or their families, if they're not first generation) have been there, no matter how good their English is, etc ("Where are you from? No, where are you really from? No, I mean, where are you really from? *exasperated sigh* You know what I mean. Where are your parents from?" - my wife has lived in the USA almost her entire life - over 30 years, since she was a toddler - she's a citizen and she gets this all the time, and we live in a progressive, diverse part of the country). Xenophobia and racism are worldwide problems and Japan is not exactly uniquely special in that regard.

 

[Datschge]

But I do think it's worth making the point that the Japanese, as a society, have never once implied to any other culture or ethnicity that they are welcome to blend into the country. All of their official policies imply that Japan is for Japanese ethnicity/culture.

Well, they do have (very obtuse) legal procedures on how to naturalize and become citizens of Japanese nationality instead of disallowing it altogether.

It is a very interesting development to watch in Japan. The population is ageing and dying, the young population and the working force is decreasing at an alarming rate. At the current rate the native population can't stop that anymore, but instead accepting the "necessary evil" of welcoming and integrating foreign workforces necessary to keep their current living standards the general resentments are increasing (which again is nothing special as that's what usually happens in periods of economical insecurities) and the politics (which should know better) is reacting by making it even harder for foreigners to settle and work in their country. Purity is more important than survival, I don't dare to guess if and what will become a turning point there.

 

[BocoDragon]

Well, they do have (very obtuse) legal procedures on how to naturalize and become citizens of Japanese nationality instead of disallowing it altogether.

It is a very interesting development to watch in Japan. The population is ageing and dying, the young population and the working force is decreasing at an alarming rate. At the current rate the native population can't stop that anymore, but instead accepting the "necessary evil" of welcoming and integrating foreign workforces necessary to keep their current living standards the general resentments are increasing (which again is nothing special as that's what usually happens in periods of economical insecurities) and the politics (which should know better) is reacting by making it even harder for foreigners to settle and work in their country. Purity is more important than survival, I don't dare to guess if and what will become a turning point there.

Yeah you are right in that they are facing the very problem that really demands immigration as the solution. It feels like maintaining the monoculture is an entrenched belief.. But who knows. Attitudes can change. My country went from racist exclusion acts to official multicultural policies in a matter of decades.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well, they do have (very obtuse) legal procedures on how to naturalize and become citizens of Japanese nationality instead of disallowing it altogether.

It is a very interesting development to watch in Japan. The population is ageing and dying, the young population and the working force is decreasing at an alarming rate. At the current rate the native population can't stop that anymore, but instead accepting the "necessary evil" of welcoming and integrating foreign workforces necessary to keep their current living standards the general resentments are increasing (which again is nothing special as that's what usually happens in periods of economical insecurities) and the politics (which should know better) is reacting by making it even harder for foreigners to settle and work in their country. Purity is more important than survival, I don't dare to guess if and what will become a turning point there.

I've studied the Japanese naturalization process a fair amount, so I'm curious what makes it "very obtuse" in your opinion.

Somehow missed this before I put in my reply to say almost the exact same thing. You're pretty much spot-on with this, except I'd point out that Japanese do have a history with racial discrimination (such as Zainichi [Koreans for the unfamiliar] and Ainu [aboriginals]), but the word "gaijin" is never used in reference to any of these tensions or concerns.

There are those who really take issue with every instance, big or small, of any perceived discrimination, such as David Aldwinkle, who considers himself White Japanese. He is an annoying ass. That said most characters through Japanese history as it relates to western foreigners, such as William S Clark, Commodore Perry and Donald Keene are held in exceptionally high regard. You know your stuff so you're probably familiar but this is for others who maybe haven't come across this topic before.

Yeah, I put "unspecific" in there, because there is definitely some discrimination of specific groups, but like you said, those groups typically wouldn't be called "gaijin" ever. And goddamn about David Aldwinkle... I wonder what drives that guy to do what he does. It's like he got Japanese citizenship just to troll people or something. I'm sure that's not how he views it, but it's hard to relate with him on any level.

I do not live there (for now, though I intend to if I can). But I've been there more than a few times.
I studied Japanese language and culture for four years at uni.
Keep in touch which Japan news daily.
Have a few japanese friends too.

And don't misunderstand me, I absolutely love the country, but I don't blind myself.

I know their history, I know the results of the recent election for PM. I know what the PM said about foreigns policies.
I know about the raise of nationalism in the country.
I know how they also treat the american army in Okinawa, with blown out of proportions event almost daily ( And I'm not even American or pro-army for that matter). Though I admit that might be a bit different, doesn't change the fact that you can still see the racism oozing out of the comments.

Being wary and cautious of strangers is part of the way they are educated.

Edit : How is that shameful to say that some people are not perfect? Seriously. Stop being so politicaly correct and see the world as it is.

You are talking out of your ass. More specifically, you regurgitating news and garbage you read on the Internet through your ass.

All of what you wrote is shit, but I'll talk specifically on the Okinawa issue. How in the world can you see the issues as blown out of proportion? Do you think the issues of violence, rape, and murder (or accidental killings) are something the Okinawans should just accept of a foreign military force living in their land? How can you be so unsympathetic of the people who have to deal with that kind of stuff on a daily basis--right in their own neighborhoods?

Seriously, gain some goddamn perspective and stop taking any negative thing you read on the Internet as fact.

I was born in New York and many of us New Yorkers think of our city as the Capital of the World -- the difference with Japan is that you can become a New Yorker the day you move there, whereas it's very, very difficult for someone who wasn't born Japanese to ever be considered Japanese. Debito struggles with it all the time.

And as a 14-year resident of Japan, I would like to identify as a member of my adopted society more, but Japanese society will always consider me as being from my birthplace. It's unfortunate, but at least the place I come from is a place I wouldn't mind going back to if I had to.

As such a such a long-time resident, surely you know that this applies for the Japanese as well, right? Regional differences are strong in Japan, and people will identify (and be identified) by their birthplace or the place where they group for their entire lives. Tokyo is kind of a special case since so many people congregate there from all across the country, but you'll find plenty of people who have trouble fitting in places like Osaka, Kyoto, etc. unless they grew up there.

 

[Datschge]

But who knows. Attitudes can change. My country went from racist exclusion acts to official multicultural policies in a matter of decades.

That's right, what's considered part of a culture and as morally correct actually changes surprisingly fast. E.g. it was only two human generations ago that mixed marriages between religions (especially! catholic and protestant Christianity) was considered heresy in many families here in Germany, nowadays it's a complete non-issue and people think of dark medieval times whenever such stories come up.

As for Japan, they unfortunately don't have decades anymore. Already a quarter of the population is aged above 65 years, young people aged below 15 years account for less than one eight of the population now, the population aged in between that is already decreasing since the late 1980s for crying out loud...

Edit:

I've studied the Japanese naturalization process a fair amount, so I'm curious what makes it "very obtuse" in your opinion.

Obtuse is probably the wrong word, it's very bureaucratic, very thorough, and people who take it on are really dedicated to Japan to want to go through the process. Which means it works exactly the way the politics surely wanted, but the meagre amount of people who try it year over year is no comparison to how many people actually would like to stay in Japan but are intimidated by the requirements. And it would be in the best self interest of Japan to make the process easier for those that are already integrated and helping Japan's demographics.

 

[Dunan]

As such a such a long-time resident, surely you know that this applies for the Japanese as well, right? Regional differences are strong in Japan, and people will identify (and be identified) by their birthplace or the place where they group for their entire lives. Tokyo is kind of a special case since so many people congregate there from all across the country, but you'll find plenty of people who have trouble fitting in places like Osaka, Kyoto, etc. unless they grew up there.

It was an adjustment I had to make, coming from a place where the biggest city is the most open, but of the three places I've lived in in Japan (Kyoto, Okinawa, and Tokyo), Tokyo is the one where I think immigrants will have the most difficult time fitting in, and who will endure the petty slights that come with foreignness the most.

My amateur-anthropologist theory is that Tokyo has many people who aren't from Tokyo who've moved there, and who are looked down on by the real-Tokyoite "Edokko", and it's these people who, needing to put somebody else down so that they can feel good about themselves, are the biggest proponents of the "two kinds of people in the world: Japanese and gaijin" worldview.

In Kyoto if you learned to talk like them, root for the Hanshin Tigers, things like that, you would be more accepted and liked than someone from Tokyo who didn't respect his adopted city.

In Okinawa they see themselves as Okinawans first and "Japanese" a very distant second, and a lot of people don't trust the naichaa or mainlanders. Some of the most pro-American people I've ever met in Japan are Okinawans aged over about 70: they remember the really bad old days when the Japanese military ran things; the American military looks downright benevolent in comparison. It will be interesting )and, I fear, saddening) to see what happens when that generation finally passes away and the bad memories of the US military are no longer tempered by memories of what came before the Occupation.

To pull this comment back to Kamiya and his use of "gaijin", I think "gaijin" is much more likely to be seen as an innocuous word in, say, Kyoto or Okinawa, because the "Japanese/gaijin" worldview isn't quite as strong as the "Kyoto/not-Kyoto" and "Okinawan/mainlander" dichotomies, and a foreign-born resident will feel no more excluded than someone from another part of Japan will. I find myself much more accepting of this word when I hear it when returning to those two places than when I hear it in Tokyo.

 

[Dunan]

Obtuse is probably the wrong word, it's very bureaucratic, very thorough, and people who take it on are really dedicated to Japan to want to go through the process.

One aspect where "obtuse" is the right word is that because Japan forbids dual nationality, people born in Japan to parents of differing nationalities are required to choose one and renounce the other at the tender age of 22. Who can possibly make such a weighty decision that will influence one's entire life at such a young age?

 

[demidar]

One aspect where "obtuse" is the right word is that because Japan forbids dual nationality, people born in Japan to parents of differing nationalities are required to choose one and renounce the other at the tender age of 22. Who can possibly make such a weighty decision that will influence one's entire life at such a young age?

You think it's possible for Japan to shrink into nothingness? I thought Japan doesn't like taking immigrants to bolster their population (besides Brazilians?).

 

[kliklik]

Let me list some of the stuff he said

クソ馬鹿ガイジン - fucking dumbass foreigners
クソ馬鹿ぽんこつガイジン - fucking dumbass low life foreigners
クソ馬鹿ガイジンまじうぜー - fucking dumbass foreigners are really annoying
クソ馬鹿ボンクラおがくずガイジン - fucking dumbass retarded pieces of trash foreigners
(he managed to add 4 derogatory adjectives on this one)


Even the usually anti-foreigner Japanese online users are saying this is too much.
Boggles the mind he can be excused for any reason saying something as the face of a company.

I'm no expert, but you're kind of sensationalising the translation.

クソ = kuso = adj version means damn, as in, "damn kids"

馬鹿 = baka = adj verison means foolish, stupid, ridiculous

ガイジン = gaijin = foreigner (there's no distinction between plural and singular. It's context-based. May just be talking about one foreigner, rather than every foreigner. It's misleading to translate it as plural.)

ぽんこつ = ponkotsu = piece of junk

ボンクラ = bonkura = blockhead, idiot, dimwit

おがくず = ogakuzu = sawdust

So クソ馬鹿ガイジン would mean "damn stupid foreigner", クソ馬鹿ぽんこつガイジン would mean "damn stupid piece of junk foreigner", etc. You're pluralising and using inflammatory English words (e.g. "fucking", "retarded") when those aren't what it translates to really.

Now I guess I'll try to dig up the context. I know he said some of these specifically to a single person who was tweeting him, rather than making a comment about foreignerS in general.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Considering the verbal abuse the man gets, I find it hard to be upset about him railing about "some" stupid foreigners. Just in the past two days, people have mocked his penis size, told him they were happy Hiroshima and Nagasaki had been bombed, etc.

 

[Sou]

I'm no expert, but you're kind of sensationalising the translation.

クソ = kuso = adj version means damn, as in, "damn kids"

馬鹿 = baka = adj verison means foolish, stupid, ridiculous

ガイジン = gaijin = foreigner (there's no distinction between plural and singular. It's context-based. May just be talking about one foreigner, rather than every foreigner. It's misleading to translate it as plural.)

ぽんこつ = ponkotsu = piece of junk

ボンクラ = bonkura = blockhead, idiot, dimwit

おがくず = ogakuzu = sawdust

So クソ馬鹿ガイジン would mean "damn stupid foreigner", クソ馬鹿ぽんこつガイジン would mean "damn stupid piece of junk foreigner", etc. You're pluralising and using inflammatory English words (e.g. "fucking", "retarded") when those aren't what it translates to really.

Now I guess I'll try to dig up the context. I know he said some of these specifically to a single person who was tweeting him, rather than making a comment about foreignerS in general.

You can try to argue any way you want, but here in Japan, the use of the word gaijin (外&#20154 is explicitly banned for use in broadcast and news due to its possible implications.
source: http://monoroch.net/kinshi/

Why are people interpreting the situation from non-Japanese perspective? Because as I said earlier, locals here have stated online that it is shocking and unacceptable behavior.

You are also ignoring the fact that
1) Kamiya, despite being able to tweet in English, he chose to write it in Japanese for whatever reason.
2) His boss, Inaba, have told him as well that it is unacceptable.
3) No matter how you want to translate it, referring to his customers with up to 4 derogatory curse words, plus a racially sensitive word, is unheard of in Japan. Even using a single curse word, no matter how much you see it on in movies or tv, is socially unacceptable in real life.

What other proof do you need so you can understand the fact that he has done something deemed unacceptable in Japan?

No matter what your interpretation is, or that you don't mind being called using a racially sensitive term. It doesn't change that fact that he has done something that is considered socially offensive here in Japan.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You can try to argue any way you want, but here in Japan, the use of the word gaijin (外&#20154 is explicitly banned for use in broadcast and news due to its possible implications.
source: http://monoroch.net/kinshi/

Congratulations on linking some guy's list! Just to illustrate how ridiculous some of the things on that list are, it even contains "芸人," which you'll probably hear 100 times or more a day on any non-NHK channel.

Why are people interpreting the situation from non-Japanese perspective? Because as I said earlier, locals here have stated online that it is shocking and unacceptable behavior.

I haven't seen any locals state that it is "shocking and unacceptable behavior." Please do point those out. Even if they did mention that, the only thing shocking and unacceptable is all of the クソ馬鹿ぼんくら stuff.

You are also ignoring the fact that
1) Kamiya, despite being able to tweet in English, he chose to write it in Japanese for whatever reason.

I think you're looking to deeply into that. He probably just didn't feel like he could express himself well enough in English, or maybe he wanted to vent to his Japanese audience just how frustrated he was with foreign spammers.

2) His boss, Inaba, have told him as well that it is unacceptable.

Oh, did he? I'm pretty sure all we have to go on is Kamiya's tweet of "Inaba chewed me out." after which he continued to tell people to fuck off.

3) No matter how you want to translate it, referring to his customers with up to 4 derogatory curse words, plus a racially sensitive word, is unheard of in Japan. Even using a single curse word, no matter how much you see it on in movies or tv, is socially unacceptable in real life.

So all of the people on Twitter and the Internet are now his customers? He must treat everyone in the world as a customer? The racial sensitivity of the word in question is debatable, as has been illustrated in this thread. It's odd for anyone in Kamiya's position to respond so angrily at spammers, but that's just his personality.

What other proof do you need so you can understand the fact that he has done something deemed unacceptable in Japan?

No matter what your interpretation is, or that you don't mind being called using a racially sensitive term. It doesn't change that fact that he has done something that is considered socially offensive here in Japan.

I take it you're an expert, eh?

 

[encephalon]

"Gaijin" is not the same as a curse word.

 

[the chris]

I haven't seen anything this edgy since the great Bieber Dope Scandal of '13

 

[May16]

"Gaijin" is not the same as a curse word.

Neither is "woman" and neither is "homosexual." But when you put "you stupid" or "the damn" in front of it, it can kind of backfire.

 

[Romars202129]

I was born in New York and many of us New Yorkers think of our city as the Capital of the World -- the difference with Japan is that you can become a New Yorker the day you move there, whereas it's very, very difficult for someone who wasn't born Japanese to ever be considered Japanese. Debito struggles with it all the time.

And as a 14-year resident of Japan, I would like to identify as a member of my adopted society more, but Japanese society will always consider me as being from my birthplace. It's unfortunate, but at least the place I come from is a place I wouldn't mind going back to if I had to.

It isn't the same all over our country, I can assure you. There's a vietnamese business owner across my street, nice guy, gets good business, I've never heard his store [Discount Beverage], ever be refered to anything else but 'the chinaman's'.

 

[encephalon]

Neither is "woman" and neither is "homosexual." But when you put "you stupid" or "the damn" in front of it, it can kind of backfire.

It doesn't really seem to work the same way in Japanese though. Like I've said before, Japanese people have put "kuso" in front of seemingly absolutely everything, and it doesn't always seem to be badmouthing what comes after it. Just after a quick google search, it looks like people have also said "kuso-otoko" and "kuso-onna." Are these used as sexist terms? Probably not, especially the former. This facetious, over the top insult from Kamiya responding to Kotaku isn't worth feeling insulted over.

 

[Romars202129]

Neither is "woman" and neither is "homosexual." But when you put "you stupid" or "the damn" in front of it, it can kind of backfire.

Yeah, but if someone belittles your country in an obnoxious manner, you're allowed to call them stupid and make note that they're not from there.
For instance-
White person- Black people are inferior to us.
Black person- Stupid cracker.
Is the black person the racist? Cause it's the exact same situation.

 

[encephalon]

The reason why he used the word "Gaijin" was probably specifically because he was dealing with the "experts" at Kotaku, not to mention the subject matter of the article.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Yeah, but if someone belittles your country in an obnoxious manner, you're allowed to call them stupid and make note that they're not from there.
For instance-
White person- Black people are inferior to us.
Black person- Stupid cracker.
Is the black person the racist? Cause it's the exact same situation.

The reason why he used the word "Gaijin" was probably specifically because he was dealing with the "experts" at Kotaku, not to mention the subject matter of the article.

Yeah, these.

 

[May16]

Yeah, but if someone belittles your country in an obnoxious manner, you're allowed to call them stupid and make note that they're not from there.
For instance-
White person- Black people are inferior to us.
Black person- Stupid cracker.
Is the black person the racist? Cause it's the exact same situation.

Okay, so take your own hypothetical in reverse.

Black person "White people are inferior to us."
White person: "Stupid n****r"

Is it okay now?

(Note: *I* am not bringing racial slurs into this, as that's not what "gaijin" is at all. But it doesn't have to be, which is my whole point.)

The reason why he used the word "Gaijin" was probably specifically because he was dealing with the "experts" at Kotaku, not to mention the subject matter of the article.

I don't even see why bringing their nationality into it is necessary at all. Even with the subject matter.

Just leave it at "Baka." Mission accomplished.
Or even just say "You don't really get this market because you are foreign" if you at least want to stay respectable.
But then combine "Stupid" with ""foreigner" and you get something that can easily be taken as insulting on a level that shouldn't be used by a high-ranking member of a company, in public forum. You should be able to see how that's out of bounds.

Yeah, these.

I fully agree with the second one. The word "gaijin" is not the problem.
It's that what combines with it.

I'm all for throwing insults around, especially at assholes, but there's no need to bring in things like nationality, race, sexual orientation, etc.

When my Japanese neighbors say dumb, inaccurate shit about America, it is definitely out of line for me to say "Damn stupid foreigners" or "Stupid freaking Japanese people" as my reply.
Are they commenting on something they don't know about? Yes.
Are they foreign to the place they are talking about? Yes.
Are they being hostile and assholish? You bet they are.
But does that make it okay for me to say "Damn stupid foreigners"? No. That brings me down to their same level.

 

[encephalon]

Just leave it at "Baka." Mission accomplished.
Or even just say "You don't really get this market because you are foreign" if you at least want to stay respectable.
But then combine "Stupid" with ""foreigner" and you get something that can easily be taken as insulting on a level that shouldn't be used by a high-ranking member of a company, in public forum. You should be able to see how that's out of bounds.

The whole point of his 4 word long "insult" is to be silly. Reducing it to one word misses the point.

 

[May16]

The whole point of his 4 word long "insult" is to be silly. Reducing it to one word misses the point.

Right, and adding the word "foreign" to it is what makes it not unlike the examples I brought up about my neighbors or women. Just because someone IS acting stupid and IS foreign doesn't mean you need to say "Damn stupid foreigners" as your reply. That puts the two of you on the same level. If my wife and one of her friends ask me some dumb shit over and over again, if I say "Ugh, stupid freaking women," that is not cool, even though they are in fact women and "women" is not an offensive word. There's no need to bring their gender into things. I can mock them without resorting to that. Also beat them so like....

 

[encephalon]

Right, and adding the word "foreign" to it is what makes it not unlike the examples I brought up about my neighbors or women. Just because someone IS acting stupid and IS foreign doesn't mean you need to say "Damn stupid foreigners" as your reply. That puts the two of you on the same level. If my wife and one of her friends ask me some dumb shit over and over again, if I say "Ugh, stupid freaking women," that is not cool, even though they are in fact women and "women" is not an offensive word. There's no need to bring their gender into things. I can mock them without resorting to that. Also beat them so like....

He's not implying a plural.

 

[mclem]

lol at people thinking Kamiya is racist.

"Yeah those fucking foreigners are fucking annoying" after litelary xx posts about random shit he recives is to polite in my opinion.

Kamiya's a lot of things, but 'too polite' is not one of them

 

[Perkel]

Kamiya's a lot of things, but 'too polite' is not one of them

That is why he is awesome. He just speak what is on his mind without PR lube.

 

[Mik2121]

Wow, some people here... I can't believe this thread has been going on for this long.

Anyway, my two cents regarding this...

1) Using "gaijin" is not the formal word for "foreigner", as that word would be "gaikokujin". In fact if you go to any place or somewhere someone refers to foreigners, he or she will always use "gaikokujin" or "gaikoku no kata" (a person from a foreign country). Using "gaijin" is much more casual and generally not so well seen. If someone says "kuso gaijin" and is friends or knows said foreigner it's ok, otherwise it has (even if not much and maybe not completely intended) a bit of a racist connotation. As many people said, it's like saying "stupid women" when you see a woman doing something stupid.

2) Now, that aside, before he says that he even said "some". He's obviously not calling all foreigners stupid or something, he's just saying "some stupid foreigners" which isn't nearly as racist as he's just referring to the stupid foreigners he had interacted with before.

3) The people saying because of him the Japanese industry's image goes down are really crazy. The guy is probably laughing all of this off while many people online are taking it so seriously. You guys should probably care less about what one person said on his own twitter account, much less assume what he says represents what tens of thousands of Japanese developers think...

4) More than anything else though, I can see why he would be so pissed off. The Japanese industry has been getting laughed at for a few years already and that is probably stressing in a way. Add to that the fact that a famous game site decides to post an entry making up things based off what he said on a twitter, and not just that but assume that the whole country works the same way is just too stupid. I'm not surprised he got pissed off and he probably just wanted to tell them to piss off. Either way, some people are perhaps reading a bit too much where they shouldn't.



Again though, my two cents. I don't know what he's really thinking and that's all up to him. Just don't assume a whole country thinks the same way, because that's as bad as saying "stupid foreigners" when only a couple of them have done something stupid, right?

 

[kliklik]

You can try to argue any way you want, but here in Japan, the use of the word gaijin (外&#20154 is explicitly banned for use in broadcast and news due to its possible implications.
source: http://monoroch.net/kinshi/

The "offensive" word gaijin is 外人. The "acceptable" word gaikokujin is　外国人 (how acceptable? So acceptable that Japanese textbooks published by The Japan Times teach English-speakers how to write and read the word "foreigner".) Literally, "gai"/外 = foreign, "koku"/国 = country, "jin"/人 = person. So in other words, the difference between what you find offensive, Sou, and what is acceptable is just one character. Foreign-person is offensive to the japanese, according to you, while foreign-country-person is a-ok.

In fact, if you wanted to discuss any alleged xenophobia present in Kamiya's tweets, you'd be talking about 外国人排斥 = "gaikokujinhaiseki". Literally, "foreign country person rejection/ostracism". Nearly the same word for "foreigner" is present in the word for "xenophobia" as the one Kamiya used.

Right, and adding the word "foreign" to it is what makes it not unlike the examples I brought up about my neighbors or women. Just because someone IS acting stupid and IS foreign doesn't mean you need to say "Damn stupid foreigners" as your reply. That puts the two of you on the same level. If my wife and one of her friends ask me some dumb shit over and over again, if I say "Ugh, stupid freaking women," that is not cool, even though they are in fact women and "women" is not an offensive word. There's no need to bring their gender into things. I can mock them without resorting to that. Also beat them so like....

No, I don't think that's a good example. Merely saying "Listen, woman!" is offensive and rude too in English. And "move, lady!" is also rude, even though "lady" is an honorific title for women. So what's happening is the impersonal and categorical nature of the word when applied to a stranger is what can make the word offensive, not just by placing "stupid" in front of it. After all, "listen, miss" doesn't sound as offensive as "listen, woman".

The word "woman" doesn't carry any inherent meanings aside from adult femaleness. So when you use it as part of an insult, you're indicating that you think it carries other implicit meanings - sexist ones - which makes things like "ugh, women!" and "stupid women" come off as sexist.

But "Foreigner", on the other hand, actually does carry more inherent meanings than just being from a different country. It implies unfamiliarity with local customs and tastes and places, a potential communication gap where the person isn't able to fully understand what locals are saying, and of course, the possibility that the person is still looking at your country like an outside observer rather than being immersed in society. Why did that person need to ask you for directions? They were a foreigner. Ah, I see!

What Kamiya said wasn't racist because "foreigner" already carries the implications that he was trying to get across: this person is unfamiliar with customs and tastes, doesn't understand what I'm saying, and is looking at me and my country like an outside observer - almost like an anthropologist (or more like a zoologist). These things are not bad in and of themselves, which is why Kamiya answers twitter questions people ask him in English. By adding on the "stupid" and other epithets, he was modifying these neutral traits to express that this particular foreigner, unlike others, was being rude, ignorant, and obnoxious with their unfamiliarity and lack of understanding. Like someone who doesn't care to learn and thinks they know exactly what kind of person you are and what you think just by knowing your nationality and race.

Actually, ironically, if he had just said, "ugh foreigners!" that would have been more racist than the things he did say, because it would indicate that he thinks the word "foreigner" itself carries all the negative implications he was trying to get across - that foreigners are inherently bad. But he didn't. He felt the need to tack on a whole bunch of epithets to modify the word "foreigner" in order to get across the negative feelings. To him, "foreigner" alone didn't convey disapproval.

 

[News Bot]

I am now more interested in this topic for the free Japanese lessons.

 

[Dunan]

Kliklik, I could not have said it better myself.

 

[Romars202129]

Okay, so take your own hypothetical in reverse.

Black person "White people are inferior to us."
White person: "Stupid n****r"

Is it okay now?

(Note: *I* am not bringing racial slurs into this, as that's not what "gaijin" is at all. But it doesn't have to be, which is my whole point.)

That's what you call a double standard. In racial tension, it favors the race that had something horrible done to them by the other. In this case, advantage black.
But beyond, the true meaning of my statement was racial slur against racial slur is not foul play on the second party, specifically, when it's not a far reaching statement.

 

[Kacho]

The "offensive" word gaijin is 外人. The "acceptable" word gaikokujin is　外国人 (how acceptable? So acceptable that Japanese textbooks published by The Japan Times teach English-speakers how to write and read the word "foreigner".) Literally, "gai"/外 = foreign, "koku"/国 = country, "jin"/人 = person. So in other words, the difference between what you find offensive, Sou, and what is acceptable is just one character. Foreign-person is offensive to the japanese, according to you, while foreign-country-person is a-ok.

In fact, if you wanted to discuss any alleged xenophobia present in Kamiya's tweets, you'd be talking about 外国人排斥 = "gaikokujinhaiseki". Literally, "foreign country person rejection/ostracism". Nearly the same word for "foreigner" is present in the word for "xenophobia" as the one Kamiya used.



No, I don't think that's a good example. Merely saying "Listen, woman!" is offensive and rude too in English. And "move, lady!" is also rude, even though "lady" is an honorific title for women. So what's happening is the impersonal and categorical nature of the word when applied to a stranger is what can make the word offensive, not just by placing "stupid" in front of it. After all, "listen, miss" doesn't sound as offensive as "listen, woman".

The word "woman" doesn't carry any inherent meanings aside from adult femaleness. So when you use it as part of an insult, you're indicating that you think it carries other implicit meanings - sexist ones - which makes things like "ugh, women!" and "stupid women" come off as sexist.

But "Foreigner", on the other hand, actually does carry more inherent meanings than just being from a different country. It implies unfamiliarity with local customs and tastes and places, a potential communication gap where the person isn't able to fully understand what locals are saying, and of course, the possibility that the person is still looking at your country like an outside observer rather than being immersed in society. Why did that person need to ask you for directions? They were a foreigner. Ah, I see!

What Kamiya said wasn't racist because "foreigner" already carries the implications that he was trying to get across: this person is unfamiliar with customs and tastes, doesn't understand what I'm saying, and is looking at me and my country like an outside observer - almost like an anthropologist (or more like a zoologist). These things are not bad in and of themselves, which is why Kamiya answers twitter questions people ask him in English. By adding on the "stupid" and other epithets, he was modifying these neutral traits to express that this particular foreigner, unlike others, was being rude, ignorant, and obnoxious with their unfamiliarity and lack of understanding. Like someone who doesn't care to learn and thinks they know exactly what kind of person you are and what you think just by knowing your nationality and race.

Actually, ironically, if he had just said, "ugh foreigners!" that would have been more racist than the things he did say, because it would indicate that he thinks the word "foreigner" itself carries all the negative implications he was trying to get across - that foreigners are inherently bad. But he didn't. He felt the need to tack on a whole bunch of epithets to modify the word "foreigner" in order to get across the negative feelings. To him, "foreigner" alone didn't convey disapproval.

Knowledge bombs have been dropped.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

I honestly think that there's nothing racist in the entire exchange at all. Kotaku was stupid in their remarks/article but I don't think it was racist in any way, and Kamiya's response was more of a response because of Kotaku's stupidity and isn't a racist remark.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Exactly what I wanted to post after reading that.

 

[Persona86]

If he hates gaijin so much why does he post in English on twitter? Do I just not understand how twitter works?

Why would he make so many Gaijin looking characters too.

 

[Persona86]

I think Kamiya should take a break from twitter, I'd hate for this to distract him from helping make Bayonetta 2 a good game.

 

[Kacho]

I think Kamiya should take a break from twitter, I'd hate for this to distract him from helping make Bayonetta 2 a good game.

Nah, he's good. I think he's just overseeing the project.

 

[Dachande]

I think Kamiya should take a break from twitter, I'd hate for this to distract him from helping make Bayonetta 2 a good game.

He's just overseeing it, the first non-Kamiya PG project he's doing so apparently.

 

[Persona86]

Nah, he's good. I think he's just overseeing the project.

Won't he be helping them make decisions or give advice?

Anyway I think he sort of enjoys the twitter chaos thou haha.

 

[Datschge]

One aspect where "obtuse" is the right word is that because Japan forbids dual nationality, people born in Japan to parents of differing nationalities are required to choose one and renounce the other at the tender age of 22. Who can possibly make such a weighty decision that will influence one's entire life at such a young age?

Like for a lot of things this is by far not limited to Japan, a lot of countries forbid dual nationality and demand that children of mixed parents decide for a single one when reaching legal adulthood. In Germany for example that age is 18 and they are given 5 years to make a decision.

You think it's possible for Japan to shrink into nothingness? I thought Japan doesn't like taking immigrants to bolster their population (besides Brazilians?).

One would think everyone who realizes that's happening would do everything to avoid just that. But at the current rate Japan's population of 127 millions is projected to shrink by about 1 million a year to around 87 millions in 2060. For comparison, at the moment there are on average meagre 15000 applications for Japanese citizenship (nearly all accepted).

 

[Kacho]

Won't he be helping them make decisions or give advice?

Anyway I think he sort of enjoys the twitter chaos thou haha.

I'd be more worried about The Wonderful 101. Kamiya isn't an idiot though. He may be hopelessly addicted to twitter, but I'm sure when it matters he gets down to business.

He even said as much in one tweet last week. haha

 

[WeaponKnight]

The "offensive" word gaijin is 外人. The "acceptable" word gaikokujin is　外国人 (how acceptable? So acceptable that Japanese textbooks published by The Japan Times teach English-speakers how to write and read the word "foreigner".) Literally, "gai"/外 = foreign, "koku"/国 = country, "jin"/人 = person. So in other words, the difference between what you find offensive, Sou, and what is acceptable is just one character. Foreign-person is offensive to the japanese, according to you, while foreign-country-person is a-ok.

In fact, if you wanted to discuss any alleged xenophobia present in Kamiya's tweets, you'd be talking about 外国人排斥 = "gaikokujinhaiseki". Literally, "foreign country person rejection/ostracism". Nearly the same word for "foreigner" is present in the word for "xenophobia" as the one Kamiya used.

It's exactly that: gainjin is offensive but gaikokujin is an acceptable word to describe foreigners. I remember an article with an interview about what the Yakuza think about SEGA's Yakuza series, one of the yakuzas scolded his partner because he said "gaijin", telling him to use "gaikokujin" instead. It's a bit weird but it's true.

 

[GhostWriter24]

Who is Cory Chase and why is he making those statements on the Tweeeeterr.

 

[chickdigger802]

Anyone ever meet kamiya, does he actually know english or is he really just a nice guy with a really selective/limited knowledge on english?

 

[zroid]

Anyone ever meet kamiya, does he actually know english or is he really just a nice guy with a really selective/limited knowledge on english?

From what I hear, he's not fluent, but he uses Twitter to converse in and practise his English. He's said before that sometimes when he gets a ton of Tweets it can be a little stressful for him to parse them all.