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[tkscz]

Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?

Human decency and kindness are not the same thing. You can't convince him of anything if you go immediately on the attack. You want to change someones mind? Then don't go for the throat. Talk to them with rational. Bury your anger and use your intellect.

People won't believe in anything they dont like the sound of. Simple as that.

Fixed that for you.

 

[JustenP88]

Avoid politics. Treat Trump like a joke. Act incredulous if he brings up his Trump support. Roll your eyes and change the subject.

If he's like any of the Trump supporters I know, he lives in his own reality and there's no evidence-based arguments that are going to sway him. Just talk to him like a child. Be real smug and (((cosmopolitan))) about it.

What i am asking for is general facts and references to use just in case. I came to this forum to ask for advice from the experiences of those who have to live with these people everyday. People who trully follow the subject.
My google-fu is not so good.

I assure you, the bolded would be of know concern to this man. Tell you what, have him read (out loud) excerpts from Trump's most recent NYT interview (with Maggie Haberman, I think). Ask him to make sense of his bit about $12 insurance. Ask him if any of this sounds like it's coming from a sentient, coherent human.

 

[Kthulhu]

Kind of strange to ask strangers to put together their debate. If you are convinced you are right... shouldn't they already know why?

There's was a guy here who went to r/The_Donald to try and get help to debate people here awhile back.

 

[SmokinGunZ1981]

To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.

If you can't articulate your argument or provide supporting evidence for your beliefs maybe you should rethink this debate!

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

It might help to state that I am not willfully going to bring the subject up. But I know it will come up due to prior knowledge of the whole situation. I'm sorry if i am vague, but I have been asked not to tell any specifics, and I will respect that.

What i am asking for is general facts and references to use just in case. I came to this forum to ask for advice from the experiences of those who have to live with these people everyday. People who trully follow the subject.
My google-fu is not so good.

 

[SgtCobra]

I'm gonna echo the "don't talk about politics" thing, just because he has other views doesn't mean you're obliged to discuss your differences once you two meet.
It's....actually pretty easy really...

Edit: unless you're meeting that person specifically to "debate" against him, in that case I don't have any meaningful information for you as I'd never accept such a strange invitation. Good luck.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

You're not going to win any argument with this person.

Especially when you have to ask people on a forum for "evidence of facts." You should be knowledgeable enough already if you're actually willing to throw yourself into this silly debate.

 

[Papercuts]

Neogaf, brehs.

 

[ClosingADoor]

It might help to state that I am not willfully going to bring the subject up. But I know it will come up due to prior knowledge of the whole situation. I'm sorry if i am vague, but I have been asked not to tell any specifics, and I will respect that.

What i am asking for is general facts and references to use just in case. I came to this forum to ask for advice from the experiences of those who have to live with these people everyday. People who trully follow the subject.
My google-fu is not so good.

Maybe you two can bond over that, since it seems you have that in common.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.

You don't know this person, stay out of their politics. Just say hello and acts it. It's not hard to do.

 

[Ban Puncher]

"I want to meet this person for an argument."


Is this a Monty Python sketch?

 

[Patryn]

Seriously, there is no upside for you in this situation. You are not going to change this guy's mind or make him feel ashamed.

Best case scenario, you rant a little and nothing happens. Worst case (and most likely, if you ask me) you end up looking like an idiot and embarrassing yourself, especially if you're going into this as hot-headed as you seem to be.

 

[bosseye]

could just talk like actual people instead of having to debate those that have different views?

Why do you feel it necessary to go on the political attack/debate stance straight away?

So much this. Not everything has to be some politically aggressive hyper debate, just interact with them on a standard human level.

 

[MC Safety]

You probably interact with Trump supporters every day.

They're a reality. Like cancer.

Part of the problem is we're quick to demonize people we disagree with.

That's the cancer.

 

[Razorback]

You did the right thing coming to Neogaf with this issue, everyone is giving you sound advice. The question is, will you take it?

 

[Uzzy]

"I want to meet this person for an argument."


Is this a Monty Python sketch?

It might turn into abuse, so it clearly is

 

[Izuna]

You don't have to talk about politics. Maybe just have a good time instead of making him think anti-Trump people are unable to see past politics to have a good time?

 

[Lurk]

Threads like this are such proof that actually this whole identity politics and general us vs them is just driving people and communities much further apart than what actually it boils down to that actually we're all human and we all may believe in different things and have different world views but that shouldn't breed this level of hatred and general lack of empathy for someone, even if they're a crazy PC maniac or deeply nasty racist sort.

You going in hot headed and with no real opinion other than "WHAT HE THINKS IS BAD"
Is doing nothing more than fuelling his own hatred of different cultures as he'll just see you as the enemy
you'll actually further support his "fuck everyone but me view."

If you truly want to debate a guy, take some time out and gather facts yourself.
Read as much as you can from both view points and come to your own beliefs.

 

[brawly]

 

[SomTervo]

OP, the best mind-changer is exposure. People being exposed to Muslims, socialists, different ways of life, as if they're completely normal.

Engaging in a debate is unlikely to solve anything. Just be extra nice and accommodating and show that you're a sincere and supportive person.

 

[Schattenjäger]

It might help to state that I am not willfully going to bring the subject up. But I know it will come up due to prior knowledge of the whole situation. I'm sorry if i am vague, but I have been asked not to tell any specifics, and I will respect that.

What i am asking for is general facts and references to use just in case. I came to this forum to ask for advice from the experiences of those who have to live with these people everyday. People who trully follow the subject.
My google-fu is not so good.

You probably have already spoken to some Trump supporters and you don't even know it

 

[Staf]

To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.

Yes, clearly this is the sane move.

 

[snausagesUK]

The whole 'live with these people everyday' is such a repugnant POV.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Wow really. We are just going to have a blanket statement about all conservatives. There are a lot of people living in echo chambers now days it seems.

Fixed that for you.

Ahhh both sides are the same. I forgot for a minute.

Alright then, from here on out I will post as if being gay is a choice, hillary clinton is having people executed left right and center, the earth is only 6000 years old, evolution isnt real, global warming isnt real, dinosaurs were on the ark, abstinence only education works, and Barack Obama is a Kenyan muslim marxist socialist communist.

 

[Chasm Skulker]

Do they know you're coming to meet them and are they also expecting a debate/screaming match?

If so, that person will 100% expect you to behave like a "libtard" (screech hysterically at them from your high horse) and absolutely everything you say will bounce off their mind armour. You will have matched their preconceived notions of a Trump detractor, further cementing their stance and their conviction that they are right and you are wrong. Also, if they catch on that you don't have your facts straight they will laugh at you.

Essentially, nothing good will come of picking a fight with them. Doing so out of principle because Trump is bad means and accomplishes nothing. Either don't go or avoid politics in discussion. If it does come up, declare an immediate ceasefire by just interjecting and saying "we are never going to change each others minds' so let's just talk about something else."

 

[L176]

could just talk like actual people instead of having to debate those that have different views?

Why do you feel it necessary to go on the political attack/debate stance straight away?

You're literally my hero!

I'll give you an real life exemple. The team manager of the girls floorball team I coach is a nuiva (pretty much the Finnish equallent of a trumper). We had one argument early on our cooperation and we straight up decided to leave politics aside (no more fb commenting for ex.). We found common ground on the sport we both love. The guy is sort of a loner (pretty much lives through his daughter who I coach) and he now calls me from time to time to talk about team related matters but many times it just seems he just wants to talk to someone. Despite our big political differences we can be friends.

 

[TheBaldEmperor]

OP, this entire endeavor seems mega-dumb. They don't care about facts and you won't convince them. Do something better and more fulfilling with your time or just don't engage on that subject. He's not gonna say, "wow you're right I never thought about it that way." You'll be fake news.

 

[Metroxed]

People don't change their views by having political debates with people with opposed ideologies, so don't try it. Talk about something else.

 

[Polioliolio]

You have to speak their language. Tar and feather him, with a big crowd pointing and laughing.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Find common interests and common goals. The only way a trump supporter will ever change their mind is to "self discover" what is better for them and others rather than being told. So if you can find common ground on something like environment, justice reform, infrastructure, minimum wage, healthcare or any thounsands of everyday challenges people face it is possible that person holds a progressive view on that matter.

But more importantly don't force the conversation in that direction and don't create traps for you to activate a gotcha! "Trump doesn't support that!". All that time getting the turtle to come out of the shell will have been wasted.

 

[Busty]

I'll give you this one piece of advice. Don't meet this person in a public space because you'll both end up making a scene.

 

[Jerry]

This has to be a joke thread right?

 

[Auctopus]

So, you want to disagree with a person's beliefs despite not knowing anything about why you should?

Jesus, OP. Maybe just try and talk to the person like a human being. The fact that you're going to meet them like they're a zoo attraction is already kind of weird.

 

[Dude Abides]

Follow the twitter account of a person named a Louise Mensch. That will give you all the well-reasoned and solidly-researched arguments you need.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Ahhh both sides are the same. I forgot for a minute.

Alright then, from here on out I will post as if being gay is a choice, hillary clinton is having people executed left right and center, the earth is only 6000 years old, evolution isnt real, global warming isnt real, dinosaurs were on the ark, abstinence only education works, and Barack Obama is a Kenyan muslim marxist socialist communist.

It's almost as if people do not 100% agree with every single thing that others label being conservative or progressive with, even if they vote that way.

 

[SlipperyMoose]

Ahhh both sides are the same. I forgot for a minute.

Alright then, from here on out I will post as if being gay is a choice, hillary clinton is having people executed left right and center, the earth is only 6000 years old, evolution isnt real, global warming isnt real, dinosaurs were on the ark, abstinence only education works, and Barack Obama is a Kenyan muslim marxist socialist communist.

This is the problem. You are part of the problem with that mentality. Not all conservatives believe these things. This is like a conservative person saying that liberals are all communist, want to make all our babies transgender and are pot smoking hippies.

This only divides people further and fuels each side for a straw man arguments. Further convinving people that their idea of the other side has been decided and is true across the board.I never said that each side is the same either.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?

This is so weird. Just don't meet the guy and tell your friend why.

 

[snausagesUK]

Is the object of this meeting just to have a big shout-off with one another?

Is he going to meet you to turn you into a Trumpist as well?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Dont talk with him about politics, problem solved.

 

[Salvadora]

Just interact like a normal human being.

Fucking hell.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Just avoid political conversation and do not engage him in any political discussion. He may have an idiotic world view, but he could also be a nice guy.

 

[L Thammy]

dissect them. see what they look like on the inside

 

[QuantumZebra]

To keep a long story short, a Trumper has come to my country and my friend (who is clueless of politics) wants me to meet them.
I would like specific evidence to use to counter argue this man. I've always accepted his way is wrong on a moral level. But I need evidence of facts as to why Trump is bad. Also specifically as to why muslims are not destroying america.

I know the sane move is to not interact with him. I know nothing will come of it. But nevertheless I need to try. For more information this guy is very anti-muslim, pro-trump, anti-clinton. He deserves to be shamed and made unwelcome here.

I have family and friends who were Trumpkins, as I call them. Most have jumped off the train since he's gone off the reservation, but we still give each other shit.

There's no reason to make it weird. Trump is fucking horrible. You can make fun of him/his supporters without attacking anyone or even getting in an argument.

Hell, I passively make fun of Trump all the time in front of people I know voted for him, cracks me up to see them squirm. They know I'm just being an ass for fun, though.

 

[I H8 Memes]

It's almost as if people do not 100% agree with every single thing that others label being conservative or progressive with, even if they vote that way.

Whats left? Share it with us.

 

[Messofanego]

You are dead set on arguing with this guy but not willing to look up stuff by yourself? I don't buy your excuse that your "google fu" is bad. I don't like letting people cheat, but you only have to google "trump lies" to get a massive list. And yeah, he's going to waft away your facts by discrediting the source, so you're going to have go more than just one angle than facts.

 

[the-pi-guy]

Or maybe just have regular conversation?

Ask him what he'd like to see, etc...

If something comes up, then you can either try avoiding the conversation or respectfully respond...

Like you can give your experiences of your healthcare system, etc.

Edit:
I missed this post

Mine, my friends, and this mans reasons are irrelevant. Suffice to say it is happening and i'm resolved to do this.

But to those who say just treat him with kindness. I refuse to show any respect when he publically advocates for the mass genocide of muslims on his facebook. Would any of you, if forced to interact with him?

So you are friends on Facebook with this person...

Depending on how insane the person was, I'd probably ask them how many Muslims they actually know. Ask them if they could be respectful and hold judgment before actually meeting some.

 

[I H8 Memes]

This is the problem. You are part of the problem with that mentality. Not all conservatives believe these things. This is like a conservative person saying that liberals are all communist, want to make all our babies transgender and are pot smoking hippies.

This only divides people further and fuels each side for a straw man arguments. Further convinving people that their idea of the other side has been decided and is true across the board.I never said that each side is the same either.

Share it then. Economics? Share it. I mean it isnt like conservatives economic theories havent been disproved just as thoroughly.


No, the problem is stupid people. There are way more of them now and they are way dumber. When I cast my first vote Republicans and Democrats were working side by side to fix the hole in the ozone layer. Only the most naive or stupid person could possibly think conservatives today would vote the same way. You must be too young to remember when America wasnt as fucking stupid as it is today.

 

[entremet]

This is not normal, OP. Real life is not the internet.

 

[L Thammy]

also, be sure to refer to them as "trump supporter" and never use their actual name

 

[TS-08]

It might help to state that I am not willfully going to bring the subject up. But I know it will come up due to prior knowledge of the whole situation. I'm sorry if i am vague, but I have been asked not to tell any specifics, and I will respect that.

What i am asking for is general facts and references to use just in case. I came to this forum to ask for advice from the experiences of those who have to live with these people everyday. People who trully follow the subject.
My google-fu is not so good.

You've been asked not to share specifics? Did you get approval from your friend before posting this thread?