Support NeoGAF

[shinra-bansho]

Meanwhile on the Xbox One Info page... (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/get-more)

lol

Why is this so blurry? Does the website only render in 720p as well?

 

[Derrick01]

Meanwhile on the Xbox One Info page... (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/get-more)

lol

Talk about misleading. Kinect sports is a blockbuster?

And there's like 1 game in that list that's 1080p/60fps so far.

 

[SniperHunter]

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.

Why would DF lie like that? Wtf? This is pissing me off

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

This weird scaler shit needs some funny .gifs or something.

 

[Unknown One]

Richard Leadbetter that's why.

 

[Mlb_Animator]

He actually got somewhat passive aggressive in that interview and probably the most we'll ever see. He didn't appreciate and called out Carmack for saying the consoles are essentially same.

Anyone have a link to this interview? Thanks!

 

[kyser73]

That is nonsense

My TV would be blinking on and off between 720P and 1080P if the resolution would change.

In consistent I think he means framrate and such like.

Clearly I should've included

Spoiler

/jk

Didn't wipeout HD use a dynamic resolution to keep gameplay smooth?

Yeah, I was jokingly thinking actually using it for a gameplay purpose of some non-specific nature.

And ridiculing the tweeter, obviously.

 

[sajj316]

Regarding the COD: Ghosts promo by Sony DE .. that has to be made with Activisions consent, no? If so .. wow. Talk about a swift kick in the nuts!

 

[Neuromancer]

Sony Deutschland is full of beans today.

 

[Demon Ice]

I don't know if I'm LTTP, but I see this Xbox scaler secret sauce FUD being stated by a bunch of posters, and it's time for some facts:

The PS3, PS4, 360, One ALL have hardware scalers. These scalers are simply GPU fixed-function blocks in all of them and they don't cost anything to use. The scalers are not separate chips, they're just a section inside the GPU.

The PS3's RSX has a hardware scaler that's shitty and broken as it cannot scale an image both vertically and horizontally. It can only scale horizontally. It's being used in such games like GT5 and Motorstorm Apocalypse (2D mode) where it stretches a 1280x1080 native render to 1920x1080, or at Wipeout where the resolution is dynamic but only scaled horizontally between 960x1080 through 1280x1080, 1600x1080 etc, only through the horizontal axis.

This means that any game that's not rendering at somethingx1080 or native 720p is being upscaled via software on the PS3. This includes all the COD games, GTA4, Crysis 2,3, etc. This is done at a minor cost to performance and more importantly memory, which is very precious on the PS3. This also explains why most PS3 games output at 720p, as there is no way to scale 720p to 1080p in hardware in the PS3 and it leaves it up to your TV to scale it. ANY SOURCE that's not 1080p that you watch on a 1080p TV is scaled to 1080p by your TV no matter what the input is, unless you letterbox it and use only half your TV to view it, which nobody does.

The lack of a proper scaler that works in both dimensions in the PS3 is also the reason why some games render at 480p when you don't have the 720p output option checked in the preferences, like some people did 8 years ago when there were many TV's that supported 1080i (1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, it's just not progressive) but not 720p. Uncharted 2 will render at 960x1080 and use the RSX's scaler if you disable 720p and enable 1080. Towards the end of the generation, most games on PS3 just used a software scaling solution that cost very little performance, and more importantly some memory. Also even very little performance can make a difference when you need all of it, obviously.

The Xbox 360 did not have any of these problems because the AMD GPU inside can scale any resolution to 1080p just fine.

The PS4 and Xbox One have the same hardware scalers that exist in ALL AMD 7xxx series cards and can scale any output resolution to 1080p (and maybe beyond to 4K). Those scaling hardware blocks are GPU components just like the CU's and ROPS.

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.

I like you. Quoting so more people can see.

 

[DBT85]

I see what you are saying but which one is better? Real question. Does that mean on will show more on the screen than the other?

Without being able to see better quality footage of both it's difficult for me to tell. Both looked sharp enough, I just don't know why the PS4 stuff is smaller and more in the corners.

EDIT: looking at some PC videos, the UI is in the same place and size as the PS4 version from the 1080 videos I watched. The Xbone UI is the odd one out.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Wait this software scalar thing was pushed by Leadbetter ?!

Were you expecting the Spanish inquisition?

 

[phosphor112]

The PC (1080p) and X1 versions of BF4 have the same size UI elements, whereas the PS4 UI is smaller. It's obvious X1 is rendering the UI at 1080p but the PS4 isn't.

The PS4 UI seems to have elements further into the corners than the Xbone. Both looked sharp though.

The PS4s 3 elements in those three corners are also smaller than the Xbone ones are.

Anyone know if this is just MP vs SP?

I just looked at these two videos to compare

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG2n...ew-vl&list=PL3Z0xw5JKEcnd5rG1o6due-Lv48ItghDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0XMG2ml8VE

I made this quick. Apologies for the shitty quality, I had to use a web thing to make it as I'm at work.

GIF

Here are the two original grabs I made

You guys are looking at it the wrong way. UI's often have fixed resolutions, so the higher the resolution, the smaller the UI appears. Not that it's being rendered in a smaller way.

You can do this with your desktop.

800 x 600

1280 x 800

800 x 600 scaled to fit 1280 x 800 screen.

So in short, the larger UI shows that the resolution is lower on the Xbox One version.

I am curios if anyone actually know the scaling technique these hardware scalers use?

Nearest neighbor?
Bi-Linear?
Bicubic?

Most GPU's use bicubic. But last gen it was clearly nearest neighbor. We won't really know for this gen until a little later.

 

[Durante]

Is this why all high end TV's and projectors still use hardware scalers?

Not saying X1 has some kind of advantage, honestly I have no clue about it's scaling capabilities but to say software scaling is better or equal to hardware scaling is pretty disingenuous IMO.

No, TVs use hardware scalers (though they aren't even completely hardware in many of them anymore, at least according to embedded systems papers I read, but I digress) because they don't contain a high-end GPU. A single-purpose integrated circuit is orders of magnitude cheaper and more power efficient, but its output is not necessarily any better, and it's less versatile. (Of course, this entire argument is tangential to the console wars, since these systems have equivalent hardware anyway -- the assumption that "hardware = high quality" and "software = low quality" in scalers it's just a pet peeve of mine)

 

[TheOMan]

I don't know if I'm LTTP, but I see this Xbox scaler secret sauce FUD being stated by a bunch of posters, and it's time for some facts:

The PS3, PS4, 360, One ALL have hardware scalers. These scalers are simply GPU fixed-function blocks in all of them and they don't cost anything to use. The scalers are not separate chips, they're just a section inside the GPU.

The PS3's RSX has a hardware scaler that's shitty and broken as it cannot scale an image both vertically and horizontally. It can only scale horizontally. It's being used in such games like GT5 and Motorstorm Apocalypse (2D mode) where it stretches a 1280x1080 native render to 1920x1080, or at Wipeout where the resolution is dynamic but only scaled horizontally between 960x1080 through 1280x1080, 1600x1080 etc, only through the horizontal axis.

This means that any game that's not rendering at somethingx1080 or native 720p is being upscaled via software on the PS3. This includes all the COD games, GTA4, Crysis 2,3, etc. This is done at a minor cost to performance and more importantly memory, which is very precious on the PS3. This also explains why most PS3 games output at 720p, as there is no way to scale 720p to 1080p in hardware in the PS3 and it leaves it up to your TV to scale it. ANY SOURCE that's not 1080p that you watch on a 1080p TV is scaled to 1080p by your TV no matter what the input is, unless you letterbox it and use only half your TV to view it, which nobody does.

The lack of a proper scaler that works in both dimensions in the PS3 is also the reason why some games render at 480p when you don't have the 720p output option checked in the preferences, like some people did 8 years ago when there were many TV's that supported 1080i (1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, it's just not progressive) but not 720p. Uncharted 2 will render at 960x1080 and use the RSX's scaler if you disable 720p and enable 1080. Towards the end of the generation, most games on PS3 just used a software scaling solution that cost very little performance, and more importantly some memory. Also even very little performance can make a difference when you need all of it, obviously.

The Xbox 360 did not have any of these problems because the AMD GPU inside can scale any resolution to 1080p just fine.

The PS4 and Xbox One have the same hardware scalers that exist in ALL AMD 7xxx series cards and can scale any output resolution to 1080p (and maybe beyond to 4K). Those scaling hardware blocks are GPU components just like the CU's and ROPS.

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.

Um - amazing post. You need a tag and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[DBT85]

You guys are looking at it the wrong way. UI's often have fixed resolutions, so the higher the resolution, the smaller the UI appears. Not that it's being rendered in a smaller way.

You can do this with your desktop.

So in short, the larger UI shows that the resolution is lower on the Xbox One version.

This is what I thought, but coldfoots comment about the PC version confused me. The PC UI is in exactly the same place and size as the PS4 version from the 1080 videos I watched.

 

[Rainy Dog]

You guys are looking at it the wrong way. UI's often have fixed resolutions, so the higher the resolution, the smaller the UI appears. Not that it's being rendered in a smaller way.

You can do this with your desktop.

So in short, the larger UI shows that the resolution is lower on the Xbox One version.

Most GPU's use bicubic. But last gen it was clearly nearest neighbor. We won't really know for this gen until a little later.

Also needs taking into account that BF4 allows the player to position the HUD elements as far into the corners as you choose in the settings. Chances are they'd just been set at different positions on each console.

 

[phosphor112]

This is what I thought, but coldfoots comment about the PC version confused me. The PC UI is in exactly the same place and size as the PS4 version from the 1080 videos I watched.

Maybe they didn't have those versions running in 1080p because they didn't want to dish out two 7890's per box... idk. But that's the only reason I can think it.. but the UI will look different any time you change a resolution. Playing WoW at 1080p and higher makes the UI tiny as fuck because you gain so much more pixel real estate.

 

[FlyingTeacup]

has DF responded?

 

[phosphor112]

Also needs taking into account that BF4 allows the player to position the HUD elements as far into the corners as you choose in the settings.

Didn't know that.

Chances are they'd just been set at different positions on each console.

I doubt this though. The amount of pixels in between the UI and the border of the screen is likely the same. It's just because you increase the amount of pixels on screen, they "get smaller" making the gap appear smaller.

 

[RobbieH]

That main tweet brings back memories of a lot of comments on this site from earlier in the year.

"Meh sony will do ____ too, just watch!"

There was, sadly, more of this from the enthusiast press than GAF.

 

[silver.tongue]

People are forgetting that Microsoft has a deal with developers that no rival consoles may have more graphics than them. That means that the PS4 and XBox One version of Ghosts has the same amount of graphics. But keep in mind the PS4 is 1080p which means the graphics are stretched, while XBox One's 720p is the sweet spot and graphics are much closer together which gives a better-looking, more succinct experience.

In conclusion, if you run the same game on 1080p hardware and 720p hardware, the 720p will look way better. Now sprinkle that with some crushed blacks (XBox One exclusive feature) and the games look-not next-gen- but neo-gen (that's more than next-gen).

Hope this clears stuff up.

I'm still trying to understand if this was serious, or a joke post, or a parody of some other post. They guy only has 4 other posts so it's hard to know if he is serious or not.

 

[Liamario]

I don't know if I'm LTTP, but I see this Xbox scaler secret sauce FUD being stated by a bunch of posters, and it's time for some facts:

The PS3, PS4, 360, One ALL have hardware scalers. These scalers are simply GPU fixed-function blocks in all of them and they don't cost anything to use. The scalers are not separate chips, they're just a section inside the GPU.

The PS3's RSX has a hardware scaler that's shitty and broken as it cannot scale an image both vertically and horizontally. It can only scale horizontally. It's being used in such games like GT5 and Motorstorm Apocalypse (2D mode) where it stretches a 1280x1080 native render to 1920x1080, or at Wipeout where the resolution is dynamic but only scaled horizontally between 960x1080 through 1280x1080, 1600x1080 etc, only through the horizontal axis.

This means that any game that's not rendering at somethingx1080 or native 720p is being upscaled via software on the PS3. This includes all the COD games, GTA4, Crysis 2,3, etc. This is done at a minor cost to performance and more importantly memory, which is very precious on the PS3. This also explains why most PS3 games output at 720p, as there is no way to scale 720p to 1080p in hardware in the PS3 and it leaves it up to your TV to scale it. ANY SOURCE that's not 1080p that you watch on a 1080p TV is scaled to 1080p by your TV no matter what the input is, unless you letterbox it and use only half your TV to view it, which nobody does.

The lack of a proper scaler that works in both dimensions in the PS3 is also the reason why some games render at 480p when you don't have the 720p output option checked in the preferences, like some people did 8 years ago when there were many TV's that supported 1080i (1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, it's just not progressive) but not 720p. Uncharted 2 will render at 960x1080 and use the RSX's scaler if you disable 720p and enable 1080. Towards the end of the generation, most games on PS3 just used a software scaling solution that cost very little performance, and more importantly some memory. Also even very little performance can make a difference when you need all of it, obviously.

The Xbox 360 did not have any of these problems because the AMD GPU inside can scale any resolution to 1080p just fine.

The PS4 and Xbox One have the same hardware scalers that exist in ALL AMD 7xxx series cards and can scale any output resolution to 1080p (and maybe beyond to 4K). Those scaling hardware blocks are GPU components just like the CU's and ROPS.

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.

Their analysis is based off the footage they captured. They have admitted that how they captured was flawed and inaccurate. Their whole article is rendered void and any good scientist would scrap it and start again. They should remove the article. It's dishonest and lazy to keep it up.

 

[Cidd]

I'm still trying to understand if this was serious, or a joke post, or a parody of some other post. They guy only has 4 other posts so it's hard to know if he is serious or not.

It's a joke.

 

[silver.tongue]

This is real?! Holy shit! lolololol

 

[Mung]

has DF responded?

Good luck with that. If they do respond though, the spin will be as absurd as always.

 

[CoG]

The scaler stuff is getting out of hand on other forums. It's HANA all over. Hilarious. I suspect coldfoot's post is going to be copy-pasted a lot today all over the Internet.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Xbox One is the new PS2... Weaker console, but better games.

Ok so Sony is just gonna lay over and not release any games huh

 

[Portugeezer]

This is what I thought, but coldfoots comment about the PC version confused me. The PC UI is in exactly the same place and size as the PS4 version from the 1080 videos I watched.

PC HUD is scalable so it doesn't really matter here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrlOZMpGSxw&t=3m27s

.

 

[spwolf]

Good luck with that. If they do respond though, the spin will be as absurd as always.

it is all dark10x's fault

 

[plagiarize]

This is what I thought, but coldfoots comment about the PC version confused me. The PC UI is in exactly the same place and size as the PS4 version from the 1080 videos I watched.

which could lend support to the idea that they are using software scaling. but like Durante says, it says nothing of quality.

or they could just be scaling it appropriately upfront.

it's bigger in the Xbone version, because it needs to be, in order to still be legible.

 

[Mercury Land-Snake]

Xbox One is the new PS2... Weaker console, but better games.

 

[I H8 Memes]

Now we see why MS didnt go with the 720 name. People would have been calling it the Xbox 720p.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Now we see why MS didnt go with the 720 name. People would have been calling it the Xbox 720p.

yes, xbone is much better.

 

[Portugeezer]

which could lend support to the idea that they are using software scaling. but like Durante says, it says nothing of quality.

or they could just be scaling it appropriately upfront.

it's bigger in the Xbone version, because it needs to be, in order to still be legible.

Well technically they need to be legible on SD TV's, or at least 720p HD TV's, so that doesn't explain PS4's UI being smaller.

I think it's just a case that they don't scale the UI, so on a higher resolution it will take up less space and therefore look smaller.

On PC the HUD scalable so it could be big or small.

 

[xaosslug]

Meanwhile on the Xbox One Info page... (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/get-more)

lol

short & sweet vs. a mouthful... MS nails it again? LOLOL

 

[Rainy Dog]

Their analysis is based off the footage they captured. They have admitted that how they captured was flawed and inaccurate. Their whole article is rendered void and any good scientist would scrap it and start again. They should remove the article. It's dishonest and lazy to keep it up.

Whilst people are still commenting on the ‘extra texture detail’, ‘pop’, ‘sharpness’ and ‘better colours’ of the XB1 version, and the FUD about how XB1’s magic hardware scaler>PS4 crappy software scaling keeps on spreading amongst the ill informed, then I’m sure they’re quite happy for it to sit pretty for as long as they can possibly get away with it.

 

[DBT85]

Now we see why MS didnt go with the 720 name. People would have been calling it the Xbox 720p.

The irony being that people before we knew the name were saying it wouldn't be 720 because of the negative connotations it would have with regard to not being 1080p. So they name it something else and two of the biggest launch titles are 720p anyway.

 

[plagiarize]

Well technically they need to be legible on SD TV's, or at least 720p HD TV's, so that doesn't explain PS4's UI being smaller.

I think it's just a case that they don't scale the UI, so on a higher resolution it will take up less space and therefore look smaller.

On PC the HUD scalable so it could be big or small.

on consoles, huds often scale differently in SD.

if you're rendering at 720p you have to make your hud elements 'bigger' to ensure they have enough pixels so that text, and various other elements are legible.

hud elements often stay the same size, in terms of number of pixels, but take up less screen space at higher resolutions. this is pretty much the norm on PC, but is relatively common on consoles too nowadays.

 

[silver.tongue]

I wouldn't be posting things like that if I weren't working on getting as much information as possible and reporting it.

I don't know if it would be ethical, so feel free to ignore this, but could you make DF look silly for the whole "better upscaler" thing?

K, tks, by.

It's a joke.

Oh, thank you.
The "amount of graphics" part should have been enough, but we live crazy times friend.

 

[Mondy]

Xbox One is the new PS2... Weaker console, but better games.

Please tell me you're trolling.

 

[The Cowboy]

Videogamer has a video up now..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcY-VaBYu30



the comments are crazy...

I was watching it, then turned it off when he said MS have always had the best 1st party games.

From the video though, do people really think the cloud is going to unlock some special magic in the Xbone? and that if it in fact did that Sony couldn't just add the cloud to PS4?.

 

[Tom Penny]

Any footage yet? Need to see if the difference is as marginal as BF4.

 

[Nags]

All is dark in my suburban town.
Eyes are blind and legs are bound.
We try to scream, but there's no sound...
Salt from tears and faces frown.

Our hands are free, but firmly clenched.
Squeezing stones for just a drip.
The thirst is real, but is not quenched.
Curse the truthfacts between your lips!

Ass storm is coming. We were warned.
From the rain of tears, we shall be reborn.







*Inspired by the events of the 2013 console wars on NeoGAF and of course the elusive cboat.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Please tell me you're trolling.

You should closely read some of this posts. S/he is fantastic.

 

[Mung]

Any footage yet? Need to see if the difference is as marginal as BF4.

That wasn't marginal at all, it was obvious. Unless you saw the DF footage.

 

[plagiarize]

Whilst people are still commenting on the ‘extra texture detail’, ‘pop’, ‘sharpness’ and ‘better colours’ of the XB1 version, and the FUD about how XB1’s magic hardware scaler>PS4 crappy software scaling keeps on spreading amongst the ill informed, then I’m sure they’re quite happy for it to sit pretty for as long as they can possibly get away with it.

can we drop the conspiracies please? it's boring. the majority of the text in their analysis is still on the money. their frame rate analysis stands. they have updated it to explain the difference in gamma.

digital foundry is not, and never has been a website designed to bash the PlayStation. do you know why the tended to favour the Xbox 360 versions of games? it's because the Xbox 360 versions tended to be better.

and you know what? they favoured the PS4 version even before they knew what was going on.

 

[silver.tongue]

Please tell me you're trolling.

He was trolling.

I was watching it, then turned it off when he said MS have always had the best 1st party games.

I did the exact same thing.

Any footage yet? Need to see if the difference is as marginal as BF4.

The game looks bad in all plataforms. The only difference you are going to see is maybe a sharper image + less aliasing on PS4. This shouldn't affect gameplay though. I think.

 

[Mung]

can we drop the conspiracies please? it's boring. the majority of the text in their analysis is still on the money. their frame rate analysis stands. they have updated it to explain the difference in gamma.

digital foundry is not, and never has been a website designed to bash the PlayStation. do you know why the tended to favour the Xbox 360 versions of games? it's because the Xbox 360 versions tended to be better.

and you know what? they favoured the PS4 version even before they knew what was going on.

So you would deny that Leadbetter has any bias towards MS and against Sony, and that all the apparent spin that people have been seeing is just imagined?

 

[nib95]

I don't know if I'm LTTP, but I see this Xbox scaler secret sauce FUD being stated by a bunch of posters, and it's time for some facts:

The PS3, PS4, 360, One ALL have hardware scalers. These scalers are simply GPU fixed-function blocks in all of them and they don't cost anything to use. The scalers are not separate chips, they're just a section inside the GPU.

The PS3's RSX has a hardware scaler that's shitty and broken as it cannot scale an image both vertically and horizontally. It can only scale horizontally. It's being used in such games like GT5 and Motorstorm Apocalypse (2D mode) where it stretches a 1280x1080 native render to 1920x1080, or at Wipeout where the resolution is dynamic but only scaled horizontally between 960x1080 through 1280x1080, 1600x1080 etc, only through the horizontal axis.

This means that any game that's not rendering at somethingx1080 or native 720p is being upscaled via software on the PS3. This includes all the COD games, GTA4, Crysis 2,3, etc. This is done at a minor cost to performance and more importantly memory, which is very precious on the PS3. This also explains why most PS3 games output at 720p, as there is no way to scale 720p to 1080p in hardware in the PS3 and it leaves it up to your TV to scale it. ANY SOURCE that's not 1080p that you watch on a 1080p TV is scaled to 1080p by your TV no matter what the input is, unless you letterbox it and use only half your TV to view it, which nobody does.

The lack of a proper scaler that works in both dimensions in the PS3 is also the reason why some games render at 480p when you don't have the 720p output option checked in the preferences, like some people did 8 years ago when there were many TV's that supported 1080i (1080i is the same resolution as 1080p, it's just not progressive) but not 720p. Uncharted 2 will render at 960x1080 and use the RSX's scaler if you disable 720p and enable 1080. Towards the end of the generation, most games on PS3 just used a software scaling solution that cost very little performance, and more importantly some memory. Also even very little performance can make a difference when you need all of it, obviously.

The Xbox 360 did not have any of these problems because the AMD GPU inside can scale any resolution to 1080p just fine.

The PS4 and Xbox One have the same hardware scalers that exist in ALL AMD 7xxx series cards and can scale any output resolution to 1080p (and maybe beyond to 4K). Those scaling hardware blocks are GPU components just like the CU's and ROPS.

The reason for the PS4 scaler FUD was due to DF not really knowing what they're talking about and saying this in their BF4 face-off:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-vs-pc-face-off-preview
"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

This DF quote, ladies and gentlemen, proves beyond a reasonable doubt, that DF DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. DF looked at the Xbox One's incorrect gamma and sharpening filter, PS4 motion blur, and the FXAA solution in the PS4 version that slightly blurs textures and guessed immediately went Xbox super awesome scaler > PS4, which is false. They simply projected the scaling issues from the PS3 to the PS4 and incorrectly guessed that PS4 is doing a software upscale. THERE IS NOTHING COMMON ABOUT SCALING BETWEEN THE PS3 AND PS4, THEY USE DIFFERENT GPU VENDORS! All 7xxx series cards and APU's based on them have hardware scalers and developers have no reason to not use them as they're free.

As far as scaling games, both consoles have equivalent scalers. Only difference is MS can scale 3 different outputs, required for Game, UI, Snap, compared to 2 for PS4.

Sorry for the long read but this "DF software upscaler FUD" really pissed me off and I wanted to set things straight.

Great post. Though in their defence isn't the sharpening and gamma stuff added on the software side (by DICE in game processing?)? I think DF being DF confused that as being the work of the actual scaler. But nobody (with common sense) takes DF that seriously these days anyway. Clarification would be nice either way.