Skellig Gra
Member
Well extrapolating, this is obviously just a guess but if 40 miles costs 8 billion. You are looking at 3.5 trillion dollars (about 440 miles) just to go from Boston to DC. That's assuming no cost overruns (yeah right).
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Japan offers to lend US half the cost of 'Super Maglev train between DC and Baltimore
- Thread starter El Sloth
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Well extrapolating, this is obviously just a guess but if 40 miles costs 8 billion. You are looking at 3.5 trillion dollars (about 440 miles) just to go from Boston to DC. That's assuming no cost overruns (yeah right).
metalslimer
Member
How in the world did you get to this math? It would be 88 billion; however that's not how it works.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Basically this, working in DC has always been about the commute, if you're fresh out of a masters program working in the city chances are you won't really be able to afford a place near by because living in the City is almost prohibitively expensive. However commuting isn't' exactly cheap. I spend about 100 bucks a week commuting to DC between parking, gas and metro. I rarely ever drive into the city though because that's more of a headache than the benefit I get out of that.
Considering that I also live about 10 miles out of the District imagine how difficult and expensive it gets for people commuting twice that distance? Sure it's doable but it's not exactly stress free or easy.
A train where you can commute to the city from 40 miles away in under 20 minutes would be a god send and a boon for everyone really. People from further out can find work in DC without feeling like they need to relocate, commuting is less stressful leading to better productivity throughout the day (in theory), honestly even if the round trip ticket for the super maglev is 20 bucks a day it's beyond worth it. At 8 billion for start up fee's it'll probably pay for itself in under a decade.
Grosvernor station waddup! But yeah basically, if you're going to be working in DC your first look at a living situation will probably be at least 15 miles outside of the city.
equippedwithtowel
Member
That's not how high tech infrastructure works.
No dude, Our metro system is ass. Worst metro system in the country. Im sure of it. Backed up congestion. Late trains. Infrequent trains when it isn't rush hour. Frequent breakdowns. High price..
Honestly name it, and DMV metro system suffers from it.
He multiplied 8 billion by 440(?) for some reason
Sounds like a pointless project TBH. The first section needs to be a lot longer than 40 miles to be worthwhile. The idea that it will lead to a line along the whole of northeast corridor is wishful thinking. Just look at how it worked out for Transrapid when they built the Shanghai maglev.
Can Crusher
Banned
High speed trains make perfect sense in big ass countries like the U.S.
This especially. I remember visiting DC one time, and driving was absolutely awful. We spent an hour trying to find parking once for the Zoo and had to go a different day. It was over an hours worth of my time just getting to a subway and taking it into DC proper too. While where I live it's like 35 minutes just to hope and a bus and go downtown. It certainly depends on distance, and getting a proper junction set up for commuters between the two cities would be wonderfully for anyone that could take advantage of it.
AdventureMike
Member
We might ride the same trains sometimes haha.
I used to get on/off at Grosvenor. Lived right across the street from the metro, but my roommate I had at the time moved out so I had to move up to Gaithersburg. Somewhat cheaper apartment, but now I have to drive to Shady Grove. $5.75 each way + $5.00 parking every day. I'm thankful I'm a fed and I get a subsidy (which was reduced by over half this year).
entremet
Member
Your math is wacky there.
We're going to have to pay for infrastructure improvements eventually and they'll get more expensive the longer we wait.
Transportation infrastructure in the states is lagging and this is an investment in the long term.
Skellig Gra
Member
That's the rough distance between the 2 cities.
Could be, like I said it was just a guess. I have to think doing infrastructure work in both boston and NYC will be massively expensive. So I think while my number might be high its a lot closer than 88 billion.
8 billion is the cost for 40 miles, not per-mile. Check those sums again
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Hahaha metro buddies from GAF, yeah my daily commute is drive from rockville to grosvenor station, park there ride metro to faragut north.
12.50 a day before gas, but way cheaper than finding parking in DC and less stressful than driving through georgetown / friendship heights into K street.
Shady Grove does sound a bit further out compared to Grosvenor but that still sounds way convenient if you're spending less on housing, very nice. I like the Gaithersburg area especially the RIO cinema area for just getting a drink on a friday with some friends in a relax environment.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
You mean like a city with one of the biggest ports on the East Coast and the capital of the country?
I'd say that's what they're doing.
Skellig Gra
Member
My math was a little off but like I suggested building in NYC and Boston is astronomically expensive so I doubt many people have factored that in.
Of course many people have pointed out that you can't just take the cost per mile and multiply it already
But that's what you thought you were doing, and your 3.5 trillion figure comes from nowhere else but bad maths / guesswork. I'd wait for someone who can actually assess property values/engineering work needing to be done before throwing around random figures
Skellig Gra
Member
I clearly said it was a guess. Take it or leave it (your choice is already pretty clear). My real point is the money has to come from somewhere and its a shit ton of money.
The greatest issue is the politics of having this maglev track run through so many different cities and residential areas. You have to basically give something to every territory you pass through, usually a demand for an intermediate stops. It'd have to join onto another project creating commuter rail links between DC/Balt.
Also money isn't the issue. $8bln is chump change, WMATA already wants to spend $26bln just expanding and building a metro stop at Georgetown.
Also money isn't the issue. $8bln is chump change, WMATA already wants to spend $26bln just expanding and building a metro stop at Georgetown.
LyleLanley
Banned
You know, a town with money is a little like the mule with the spinning wheel. Nobody knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it.
That's sort of ambiguous. Certainly much of the cost will be in covering the vast track in between junctions. The junctions and city portions will cost a bit more per mile. But essentially a maglev like this would be tying into an existing junctions station on the edge of the city.
You wouldn't ignore the infrastructure that the cities already have in place to move people around once they arrive.
I'm not exactly sure what your arguing. Yes costs rise with a projects scale. But infrastructure is something our nation needs to be investing in right now. It's surprising but spending a lot of money can actually be a good thing.
But hyper loop is just a bunch of pictures and super duper cramped while maglev trains actually exist and are proven technology
I really hate how much media coverage that stupid hyper loop gets in the English media. It's like unless the US invens it it didn't happen.
Come back to me in 30 years when hyper loop has an operating test track and isn't sitting in a sardine can .meanwhile bring in the maglev trains. It's expensive but the more it's built the faster the cost will come down. Would be great to do Bos-wash in like an hour or two
I really hate how much media coverage that stupid hyper loop gets in the English media. It's like unless the US invens it it didn't happen.
Come back to me in 30 years when hyper loop has an operating test track and isn't sitting in a sardine can .meanwhile bring in the maglev trains. It's expensive but the more it's built the faster the cost will come down. Would be great to do Bos-wash in like an hour or two
When I interned on the Hill in 2010, I subleted student housing from a University of Maryland Student, and on sunny days would walk the 1.5 miles to the Metro Station, or on rainy days spend 3 dollars on a bus ride. The metro ride was 5 bucks each way (College Park to L'enfant or Capital South), and i'm pretty sure rates have gone up since then.
Omegasquash
Member
You say that with the full understanding that the GOP would stomp on that faster than the actual train can move, yes? We NEED to improve our infrastructure, and it would create jobs and boost the economy, but the house can't see that right now. They only see a black guy in the office.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Goddam, that is a lot of money. NOW, if we were talkin' DC to Philly? ayeyeyeye fugitaboutit
It still baffles my mind how US has no decent train network. Especially how important they were in the country's history.
empty vessel
Member
And it's idiotic for a government that creates US dollars to borrow US dollars. If the US wants the damn thing, just spend and build it.
Phoenix
Member
ElectricBlue187
Member
ЯAW;96362987 said:
The transcontinental railroad was huge but back then the best alternative was travel by sea, which took fucking forever. Now there's airplanes and interstates which fast train routes could definitely beat but the returns in terms of time saved have diminished significantly
Phoenix
Member
ЯAW;96362987 said:
There are a LOT of reasons for that, much of it relating to the prioritization of passenger versus freight rail. To do it right you need a brand spanking new set of tracks which NOBODY wants to do. Otherwise your very hight speed trains get bottlenecked by the freight that isn't heading at the same speed.
The other, almost embarrassing, problem is that even if you DID go faster (because all of our trains can go a LOT faster than they currently do) - you have issues when you start passing through towns and such where you have to crawl along at sub 35MPH speeds due to regulations. I took an Amtrak train from Atlanta to New Orleans and was just blown away by how slow the train travels throughout the journey. Same thing happens heading up the coast towards New York.
If we want to have EFFECTIVE high speed rail, it goes a lot further than just getting faster trains.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Its a good opportunity,
The Japanese company would be making money from expansions etc.(just imagine if it expanded to just a 3rd of the US, thats a lot of $$$)
And if its successful in the US many other countries would maybe start to consider upgrading
Pretty much,
unless we are talking Texas, or out in the desert there is a city/town every 5 minutes all the way up the East coast,
With many of those cities being built directly around the train tracks.
You can't just go blowing through those at 70+mph
It could help but the government is in no shape to build a rail road at based at that cost. 200 million a mile is crazy. Let alone getting investors and comapanies on board at that price. Your talking trillions of dollars to add it to US rail
ScottSullivan
Member
AstroNut325
Member
This x infinity!
Edit:
So what you're saying is that US is forever stuck with the infrastructure it has and that we cannot ever advance our infrastructure. All major infrastructure projects are out of reach to the USA? We just got lucky with our national highway system?
I'm not saying we can't. But at the current state of US debt and other factors. Your going to have a hard time pitching the cost.
Yeah, this should be the ultimate goal. Link up the Northeast like Japan is.
a.) Inflation isn't really a problem right now so we could just print some money
b.) If you don't subscribe to MMT, it still makes sense because interest rates are so low right now because of the recession that we actually make money (factoring in inflation over the term of the debt) by borrowing right now, iirc (essentially, people paying the US to hold on to their money). These interest rates are probably already starting to rise though as the economy sluggishly recovers, so we've missed our best opportunity to borrow a shit ton and build a bunch of stuff (which was in the immediate aftermath of the recession).
Also, infrastructure spending is proven to be one of the most effective stimulus measures for a recessed economy and also has the benefit of providing long term economic benefit and growth. It should be a no brainer.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Making it cost effective is the key. If there was a bullet train that took 2 hours to get from Cincy to DC, that would be great. BUT, if it cost 300 dollars for a ticket, fuck it. I'm driving for 1/3 the cost and 3 times the time.
Patrick Bateman
Member
It still blows my mind that the US has no proper highspeed railway. Like the TGV in France, ICE in Germany or the Shinkansen in Japan. One from Boston to Florida. One from Florida to LA and up to Seattle. From Seattle back to Boston.
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