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[SapientWolf]

Hm, let me see if I've got this right.

1. Justin McElroy joins NeoGAF, asks that Joystiq be taken off the banned list.
2. Justin McElroy makes silly mistake, blames a game for it.
3. GAF calls Joystiq on this in the usual GAF fashion.
4. Justin McElroy admits silly mistake but still doesn't take any responsibility at all for making it, instead still blaming the game.
5. Joystiq makes a podcast where Justin still doesn't take responsibility for making a mistake, and makes constant shots at GAF for both calling him on it and enjoying Nier.

Classy, Justin. Classy. Never read Joystiq before, certainly won't now. At the very least I've learned that if I see your name attached to an opinion, it's not worth listening to.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of reading through a 16 page thread.

 

[selig]

late to this topic, but:

You know what would have been a GOOD reason not to review this game?
The fact that they didnt give us the Japanese game´s hermaphrodite-character.

 

[Volcynika]

late to this topic, but:

You know what would have been a GOOD reason not to review this game?
The fact that they didnt give us the Japanese game´s hermaphrodite-character.

Uh. The character that is a hermaphrodite IS in Nier: Gestalt.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Holy fucking shit.

Holy shit!

22 hours in and the game JUST KICKED INTO HIGH GEAR?

Spoiler

(JUST GOT PAST THAT LIBRARY PART.)

Again... holy fucking shit! This game is AWESOME!

EDIT: Shit! This was meant for the official thread! :lol

 

[Sinatar]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but to compound Justin's fail:

If you fish at the right spot and fail 2 times the game just up and gives you the fish.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Man, I'm so conflicted about this game. Reviews aren't the best, but because of this thread it seems like it could be a quirky entertaining experience despite it's faults.

I've been on the fence about a game like this before and it took 15 episodes of a particular endurance run to convince me to get it

 

[demigod]

EDIT: I forgot, his childish stabs at GAF were pretty annoying. Way to attack the comments made here by saying them in a stupid voice instead of actually discussing them.

Really? Too bad he doesn't have the balls to do it in this thread. He probably knows most of us don't even listen to his podcast nor visit lamestiq.

 

[PflargBlarg]

Really? Too bad he doesn't have the balls to do it in this thread. He probably knows most of us don't even listen to his podcast nor visit lamestiq.

If you ever listened to the Heroes of the Web segment by Shawn Elliot on 1up Yours (I think) then you'll know what I'm talking about. The stereotypical nasally nerd voice. Except heroes of the web was funny because it was Shawn reading posts by people wanting to marry Sonic, while this was people calling Justin on his shit.

 

[Punchy4486]

Edited for immaturity:

My argument in defense of Justin is that he approached Nier the same way he viewed FFXIII: If you are not having fun with a game, if it is not enjoyable to you, it is probably not worth your time.

He was not enjoying the game, and the poor design of the fishing quest, and the fishing in general, was the straw that broke the camel's back. The game is often obtuse in what it wants you to do, and anyone that knows great game design could argue that this game is a great example of poor game design. Great game design never has a player questioning where to go or what to do, unless that is the point of that moment in the game. The game gave him a big red X, but that was the only indication of where to go. Let's all defend Perfect Dark Zero for it's great game design. It had giant arrows telling you where to go because it was designed so well. How could you get lost in it's confusing and unnatural level design, it had those great arrows! That was a AAA FPS, by the way, and was called on that crap design - for those of you saying this backlash is because it's a JRPG or not AAA.

In other games, for example, Twilight Princess, you are tasked with catching a specific fish. In this case, it's a 'reekfish', so you can track down a monster that likes eating said fish. You're given a picture of this monster that you take to someone who tells you, through dialog, where you can find said fish, and gives you a hook to use. The character then tells you the specific spot to drop your line, which still allows you to feel clever by being able to solve this "puzzle". Specifically, the reekfish can be found near "the mother-and-child rocks" in the waterfall basin. Using common sense, one can assume it means that there are a large and small set of distinctive rocks that you should fish near at the basin of the waterfall. He also helpfully mentions that the fish are red, and you should be able to spot them from the shore due to this fact. Most people had no problem finding the spot to fish, even without a GIANT RED X ON THE MAP! They must be geniuses! Or wait, the game is designed well and naturally so that people can discern the clues in the game, as they can in reality, on where to find the fish through dialog and discussion, rather than arbitrary goalposts on a map. Is this a gameplay conceit that many of us have become accustomed to? Yes, but it's far from a well-designed one.

In the end, fans of certain types of games, in this case JRPGS, have come to accept that there are tedious aspects of games they love that are often mandatory and they are fine with that. Grinding is a good example: few find grinding fun, but fans of the genre often feel that the ends justify the means, that the good parts of the game are worth the mundane slog-filled parts. People, however, have different limits, and considering many games have evolved past these ancient reminders of gaming's past, their limit on "unfun" portions of a game has shrank considerably. They do not feel that they should have to "work" in order to have "fun" in a "game". Thank you and good night.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Considering the fact that it's stupidly easy to find the red X on your map, and also stupidly easy to fish, it's not Nier's fault whatsoever. The game is not poorly-designed in any matter.

 

[TheGrue]

Considering the fact that it's stupidly easy to find the red X on your map, and also stupidly easy to fish, it's not Nier's fault whatsoever. The game is not poorly-designed in any matter.

Yeah, the game tells you where to go with that X. The problem is that they really should have made it so you can get the fish from the beach right there and put the X there. That and explaining how the controls work better. You really need to watch Nier and use the left stick based on what he is doing, not the fish.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yeah, the game tells you where to go with that X. The problem is that they really should have made it so you can get the fish from the beach right there and put the X there. That and explaining how the controls work better. You really need to watch Nier and use the left stick based on what he is doing, not the fish.

The fish orients the opposite direction you hold the rod, so you do have to watch the fish and pull it in opposite... kinda like REAL FISHING. :O

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

If you ever listened to the Heroes of the Web segment by Shawn Elliot on 1up Yours (I think) then you'll know what I'm talking about. The stereotypical nasally nerd voice. Except heroes of the web was funny because it was Shawn reading posts by people wanting to marry Sonic, while this was people calling Justin on his shit.

Wow that is pathetic.

...That was sarcasm of course, since most of you seem pretty slow.

Stopped reading here.

 

[TheGrue]

The fish orients the opposite direction you hold the rod, so you do have to watch the fish and pull it in opposite... kinda like REAL FISHING. :O

I've tried doing it by watching the fish and I always fail. If I do it by watching Nier's body, I never fail

 

[Cep]

For the love of God people, let this thread die.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

...That was sarcasm of course, since most of you seem pretty slow.

You make an attempt to be reasonable, but then go childish and peg this in there.

I felt like I might have started to agree with you, but now I can't view this as anything but someone tearing up and stamping their foot that everyone is being mean.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I've tried doing it by watching the fish and I always fail. If I do it by watching Nier's body, I never fail

Hm, it's the opposite for me. *shrug*

 

[Punchy4486]

You make an attempt to be reasonable, but then go childish and peg this in there.

I felt like I might have started to agree with you, but now I can't view this as anything but someone tearing up and stamping their foot that everyone is being mean.

Point taken.

 

[Basileus777]

The game is not obtuse in what it wants you to do. You can pretty much play the whole game by following the red X. The game also tells you what you need to do when you press start.

Yeah, they should have made it clearer that you had to go to a different beach to catch that fish. But it's a minor thing, the type of flaw that's present in every game.

 

[Kintaro]

How funny that Nier has pretty much baffled every single "professional" gaming site, yet the New York Times reviewer is the only one that seemingly had no trouble playing the game and got it.

 

[Baloonatic]

Could someone post a video of the no running section he's talking about? I remember one where you couldn't run and all you had to do was stick to one side and destroy the blocks then time your movements to avoid getting hit from the other side. Took me like 30 seconds :/

 

[ZephyrFate]

How funny that Nier has pretty much baffled every single "professional" gaming site, yet the New York Times reviewer is the only one that seemingly had no trouble playing the game and got it.

Honestly, the New York Times review for this game is the only one worth a shit. Not only is the dude NOT a traditional games journalist, he has class and professionalism behind him, something I cannot say for 99% of gaming sites/magazines.

It's also the most well-articulated game review I have read in a long time.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Man, I'm so conflicted about this game. Reviews aren't the best, but because of this thread it seems like it could be a quirky entertaining experience despite it's faults.

I've been on the fence about a game like this before and it took 15 episodes of a particular endurance run to convince me to get it

This game is fucking awesome. It starts out slow, but when it picks up - you're in for one Hell of a ride. The only things wrong with this game are the mediocre visuals: which really aren't that bad unless your a graphics whore or some stupid shit, and the sidequests: which are mostly fetch quests, but they really aren't horrible and detrimental to the experience by a long shot.

Buy this game. It's a good game. Great characters, great music, great story. It does a lot of cool and interesting things. More games like this need to come out.

 

[Night_Trekker]

The more I play (and love) of Drakengard, the more I want to play Nier. I think I'm basically finished with professional reviews for the most part.

 

[pancakesandsex]

The 'stealth section' mentioned here was a clip he saw on youtube. Apparently there's a room where there's fireballs going back and forth, and you have to get across the room. If you run, you explode, so you have to walk across by slightly tilting the stick. If you hit the dodge button you explode. The only way to get through is by holding the block button and slowly inching your way across. The way he described it sounded pretty terrible but I haven't seen the video.

Just a note, you don't have to hold the block button at all. You are just not allowed to run. So all you have to do is tilt the stick a little to walk. You can safely walk between the fireball streams in the room as well, you just pass one stream at a time when they briefly stop, by walking, not holding block. Takes less than a minute.

basically there are staggered fireball shooting blocks set up kinda like this:

GOAL

[]--------------------

--------------------[]

[]-------------------

[]------------------

---------------------[]

---------------------[]

[]------------------

YOU ARE HERE

and you have to go through them without running. It initially looks confusing, but it's a puzzle. The blocks stop shooting occasionally giving you a chance to slip past one or 2 blocks at a time, unless of course you try and block all the fireballs like a moron instead of just walking through the gap. You also have enough space to fit between the streams, which you can easily discern by simply rotating the camera perpendicular to the streams.

 

[SamVT]

Ok that was funny. A bream. I give Nier a Zero.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Just a note, you don't have to hold the block button at all. You are just not allowed to run. So all you have to do is tilt the stick a little to walk. You can safely walk between the fireball streams in the room as well, you just pass one stream at a time when they briefly stop, by walking, not holding block. Takes less than a minute.

basically there are staggered fireball shooting blocks set up kinda like this:

GOAL

[]--------------------

--------------------[]

[]-------------------

[]------------------

---------------------[]

---------------------[]

[]------------------

YOU ARE HERE

and you have to go through them without running. It initially looks confusing, but it's a puzzle. The blocks stop shooting occasionally giving you a chance to slip past one or 2 blocks at a time, unless of course you try and block all the fireballs like a moron instead of just walking through the gap. You also have enough space to fit between the streams, which you can easily discern by simply rotating the camera perpendicular to the streams.

It took me a couple tries to get past this part, but I never raged about it. God forbid that a player puts some fucking effort in. Gamers are such wussies these days.