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[Psycho_Mantis]

Or they gambled (against the Wii), supported the Ps360 instead, and lost. Monster Hunter Tri sold about 2 million WW. Resident Evil 4 Wii edition also sold around 2 million. It wasn't impossible to sell those types of games to the Wii audience even though the audience for those genres was not being fostered by third parties. It was crazy how thoroughly 3rd parties kept their high-profile franchises away from the Wii despite the fact that it was owned by 100 million people. In retrospect, I might even say it was stupid.

I get that Wii wasn't expected to explode the way it did, that it was underpowered relative to PS360 and that Playstation was the console on which a number of popular 3rd party franchises were born and where sequels were expected. Yet it's still fascinating that Wii proved itself and became a huge phenomenon yet quality 3rd party support never followed. If the problem was the Ps360 split it was a problem created by the publishers. They had an undisputed market leader they just chose to snub it (with the possible exceptions of Capcom and Enix). Probably they were right to do so but *if* their bottom lines suffered due to those decisions, maybe not.

Install base does not mean more sales. What matters is target audience. Considering the technological gap between the two platforms and how the Wii dropped incredibly hard after 3-4 years I'd say that they decided resources should be spent towards the platforms where most of their target audience is at and concentrate on that.

Here's some truth for you to swallow:
RE5 : 6.8 million
RE6 : 6.2 million
MH3P : 4.5 million+

 

[PoweredByHentai]

Well no they wouldn't so to them when making the decision to move the series from PS2/PSP to Wii they factored in the increased risk associated with redoing many of the assets in 'HD quality'. At that point though as far as technology was concerned, Capcom already had several games in their MT Framework engine on PS3 which they could have used.
They eventually moved the games to it with the 3DS and WiiU versions of the game.
It was actually not a bad decision for them as MH games were always 'cheap' money makers for them and they were hedging their bets with their PS3 efforts and felt no need to do anything major with MH at that point.

I believe that the MT Framework was at v1.3 or v1.4 at the time of Tri's release. Considering that the original release of Tri on the Wii wasn't using the MT Framework at all, and that they have publicly stated that it was too expensive to develop the game for the PS3, I think it is perfectly reasonable that a combination of HD assets and the game not being on MT Framework would have made life difficult for the Monster Hunter team.

Which franchises other than MH would have sold because they are what they are? Then why weren't more of them on Wii in some form? That's my question.

BTW, I don't think requiring a pro constroller would have been huge issue. Wii's owners understood accessories. Some popular games required them or were bundled with them (eg. Wii Fit and Mario Kart). IIRC, MH Tri was bundled with a pro controller.

Regardless, in their desperation some publishers are now adapting their console franchises to machines designed primarily for talking. They're doing this because a lot of people, including many non-gamers, own them. Wii was a dedicated gaming machine with tens of millions of users (eventually 101+ million) but was so strange that they couldn't figure out how to bring their key franchises to it? I think not. IMO, inertia and myopia played a huge role.

The "splitting off" of the market leader and the decision to pick both horses in the PS360 dead heat was due to the 3rd party publishers. You mentioned that there is usually a clear market leader that gets most of the support. Well last gen was only an exception in that the market leader was basically ignored by third parties not that there was no clear leader.

Despite the fact that the console with the most users usually gets the most support, there seems to be a general consensus that the publishers' unusual decision last generation was the right one. However, if you are saying that mid-tier devs are suffering due the market conditions of the last generation then we should revist that consensus. It's possible that powerful 3rd parties created the toxic conditions by snubbing the clear market leader thereby dividing the market into two apparent niches one of which didn't have a clear frontrunner.

And I specifically said that PRIOR to the 360/PS3 generation, there was usually a clear market leader that every developer focused on. I don't understand your intent in trying to twist my words here.

As for why developers and publishers snubbed the Wii, I believe it was because Nintendo's history of pissing off third-party developers/publishers might have tainted their judgment. In Japan, a lot of business is still done on a personal level. It also doesn't change the fact that the market split between the "high power" consoles didn't help with certain developers' "gambles" as you called it.

Regarding the Wii Classic Controller or the Controller Pro or whatever it is called, do you seriously think that after having been advertised as the "simple, intuitive, fun" console that you could tell people to go buy a controller that was the anti-thesis of "simple and intuitive"? A lot of people who went to the Wii did so exactly because they found existing controllers to be too complicated. This was something that Miyamoto mentioned in a Iwata Asks episode:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Ask...e-Other-Screen/2-The-Other-Screen-205212.html

Miyamoto: Bold, but cautious, I have to be. Not one of our customers is the same, so I think about it from the point of view of someone who has dealt with games for years, and at the same time I also think about how it will appear to people who have never played games. Back when we made the Wii Remote, our core design philosophy was how to lessen the number of buttons without losing past gameplay standards. Even if it was just one button that we were talking about taking out, I think I was the one who twisted my head over it the most.

Finally, you guys seem to be deliberately ignoring the "Wii would like to play" commercials. I mean, seriously, just watch the commercials and you will understand that the whole appeal of the Wii was its intuitive controls and a crowd that goes for simple controls isn't going to suddenly upgrade to a more complicated controller.

I totally disagree.

First of all, Wii consumers didn't have a problem with let's say the Mario Kart Wheel and especially not a problem with the Balance Board. Wii Fit sold around 23 MILLION copies. Wii Fit Plus sold around 21 MILLION copies. So around one FOURTH of the whole Wii install base. How is this possible when a quite expensive controller was needed to actually "play" those titles?

Link's Crossbow training, which was basically the Wii Zapper + a small game, sold an insane 5 MILLION times. And we are talking about some plastic in this case. It wasn't even an actual controller. It was some plastic to hold the Wiimote.

If the typical Wii consumer was as stupid as you say (or as old fashioned and stubborn like the typical "i want to play everything using dual stick controllers, because I don't want anything new or fresh"-gamer), then those wouldn't have sold that many times.

I personally really enjoyed that approach. Some games are better suited to a classic controller. Some games are better suited to Wiimote and so on. Some games actually played really well using the Balance Board. The typical "one fits all" approach is simply crap, because some games will suffer. I mean just look at Donkey Kong Country Returns. That game actually suffered because of tacked on motion controls. BUT other games were massively improved by them.

Someone already said that several games were bundled with a Classic Controllers. Monster Hunter Tri comes to mind. Xenoblade is another of those titles. Last Story was also sold separately + as a bundle with the Pro Controller (the latter in Japan) and I'm sure there were more than that.

And finally - there were quite a few "very complex" games on Wii, that were supporting Wiimote + Nunchuk only. For example Metroid Prime games. There were even open world games like Scarface, that did only support Wiimote + Nunchuk and the controls of those were simply perfect. There was nothing that you couldn't do in the Wii version compared to the other versions. Hell, Drive-Bys in Scarface were way way better than in every other version. And motion controls in for example Godfather actually improved the game in a significant manner.

When you actually played lots of Wii games, then you would know that only some Wii games were "easy and simple". All sorts of other Wii games weren't. In fact the Wii had an insane amount of special hidden gems. Just like the PS2 had all sorts of gems, which made both the Wii and PS2 special. Those games wouldn't have made it onto PS3/360 especially not as physical releases thanks to insane budgets and publishers not wanting to risk higher budgets on some obscure game design.

And how many buttons does the Balance Board and the Mario Kart Wheel have? They are accessories that provide ergonomic value to the Wiimote, that is really what they are.

The fact that Mario Kart or Wii Fit sold crazy numbers means nothing to this particular discussion about control methods since both used the built-in intuitive controls to play as opposed to requiring complex button inputs.

The default Wiimote + Nunchuk combo is not a perfect solution but it is an intuitive solution that resonated very well with people who found something like the PlayStation Dualshock controller to be extremely intimidating. I'll point you at the Iwata Asks quote that I referenced above.

How many units did Xenoblade sell while making full use of the Classic/Pro Controller? Something like 200K in Japan and a similar but unknown amount in the West.

How many units did The Last Story sell? Something like 160K units in Japan and a successful but cryptic amount in the West (according to XSEED).

Finally, complex games and complex (like DualShock or Classic/Pro Controller) controllers are not mutually inclusive nor are they mutually exclusive. You can have fairly complex games on a simple hardware but it still comes down to what you are willing to compromise on. I mean, we got Xenoblade, Okami and Muramasa the Demon Blade on Wii, doesn't necessarily mean that they all sold exceedingly well.

 

[Terrell]

I must point out that this final assertion is actually not known. Particularly in the gold rush that will ensue if Japan legalizes casino gambling.

That's just it though. They're giving up on something that makes money now for something that might make them money in the future. But that future is still uncertain. So they're moving prematurely in a direction that costs them money in the short term. Investors who understand the market they're leaving won't stand for it, especially if they invest in other game companies who will end up with a weaker stock price because one of the stronger players leaving makes the rest of them look less valuable or more at risk.

 

[JBourne]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

 

[Revven]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

Woooooooooow. That's just amazing. Unbelievable.

 

[OricWindstar]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

This whole situation is so fucking crazy.

 

[CambriaRising]

Jesus

That has to be an over-site, no way that's not going to get fixed now that the issue has come to light.

It's been like this for almost a year now:
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=859702

I was only able to fix mine by purchasing the refunded game again. You can't do that with PT and Sony was useless to help me.

 

[Asd202]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

Holy shit.

 

[Impala26]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

I really hope he's right and that this scenario sets a precedent where YouTube actually has to perform a cursory evaluation into copyright infringement claims BEFORE a strike is issued and a video is blocked/taken down.

I'm guessing that Konami was in the progress of coming up with some bogus copyright claim after YouTube responded with "no enough information provided", but they've likely backed off given that much of the internet now has a bit of a magnifying glass on the whole situation now.

They... they had to have backed off, right? I mean... Konami's not THAT crazy!

Spoiler

They're still working on something like that aren't they?

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

Fucking Konami man, seriously. This shit they are doing is going to come back and bite them in the ass...hard.

 

[Justinh]

Spoiler

They're still working on something like that aren't they?

I think what they're working on is a giant magnet that will steal all of our gaming consoles so they can launch them in a rocket into the sun.

I'm with you on that I hope this means that Youtube sees that there's been problems with false copyright claims and will actually protect their content creators.

I imagine what happened was that high-level exec did it off the cuff, and realized he messed up and went dark after youtube emailed them. At first I thought maybe their lawyers got wind and told him to "Knock it off!" but he says the claimant was a lawyer. We'll have to see what happens. I kinda hope Konami presses on this just so I can see what happens.

It was really interesting to me to see all the behind the scenes stuff with the emails in the video.

 

[justjim89]

Weidman is so good at what he does, I'd love to see him put his skills to use on a bigger venue. Maybe get hired by a proper game news site. Then again, Youtube intervened on his behalf here so maybe someone at Youtube values the work he does, anyhow. This is all encouraging to hear though. Fuck Konami, seriously. I wish MGSV didn't look half as compelling as it does, so I wouldn't be urged to buy it.

 

[Steroyd]

"Pretend this is a Konami game"

El oh el.

Konami doesn't know how the internet works, I'd say it's unbelievable in 2015 for a big corporation like Konami, buuuut the past few months they've been going on a suicide run.

 

[KarmaCow]

It is bizarre how Konami is so desperate to burn bridges even if that means lighting themselves on fire to do it.

 

[Justinh]

buuuut the past few months they've been going on a suicide run.

Is it bad that I don't want to stop serving Konami drinks? That I want to see how much of the house plant he'll eat before it's just Konami sitting on the couch naked next to a leafless ficus?

 

[Impala26]

Is it bad that I don't want to stop serving Konami drinks? That I want to see how much of the house plant he'll eat before it's just Konami sitting on the couch naked next to a leafless ficus?

I pretty sure most of GAF feels the same way.
There is something beautiful in Schadenfreude.

 

[Kirlia]

Not long now.

If only.

 

[JBourne]

They... they had to have backed off, right? I mean... Konami's not THAT crazy!

I think they just don't care anymore.

 

[AppleMIX]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

I would have never expected youtube to actually do some heavy lifting.

 

[Harlock]

Another good effect that is we learn how great Super Bunnyhop videos are, like this one about mod monetization.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emW15aLYbp4

 

[Regulus Tera]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

Requesting title update to let people know the depths of Konami's despair.

 

[Enlil]

All those people working on P.T (Silent Hill) why don't they just find another publisher or start their own team. they can use the same assets and call it something else like Mikami did with RE?

I don't know what really happened, but companies do this, to stay alive and healthy. If it was done in a irresponsible way then that is just wrong, but a company is a company And people like Kojima can easily get a job after he leaves Konami.

 

[Impala26]

All those people working on P.T (Silent Hill) why don't they just find another publisher or start their own team. they can use the same assets and call it something else like Mikami did with RE?

I don't know what really happened, but companies do this, to stay alive and healthy. If it was done in a irresponsible way then that is just wrong, but a company is a company And people like Kojima can easily get a job after he leaves Konami.

Couldn't you still potentially be sued for copyright infringement for this?
I mean, I guess if you went about re-using assets REALLY obliquely there'd be no case.

 

[mhayes86]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

I was oblivious to this until this morning, so that followup was pretty interesting. Even Youtube lifted the copyright strike?

That Streisand effect at work.

 

[Zubz]

I still love that, after years of sitting on their hands regarding some of the most-insane copyright strikes, YouTube finally stepped in on this one. That follow-up was pretty much on-point, and I appreciate Mr. Weidman for staying professional here.

Plus, SBH made a new fan here, so I'm thanking Konami for the advertising.

 

[jimi_dini]

And how many buttons does the Balance Board and the Mario Kart Wheel have? They are accessories that provide ergonomic value to the Wiimote, that is really what they are.

???

The Mario Kart Wheel is LITERALLY a piece of plastic for the Wiimote, which makes racing in racing games even more enjoyable.

The Balance Board however had nothing to do with the Wiimote. It was a completely different beast.

And as I already said - the Balance Board is superb for some games, where you actually only need motion, in that case the motion of your whole body. For example Kororinpa (an awesome marble game).

I never said that the Balance Board should get used for everything. It would be stupid to do so. Same goes for motion controls. Same goes for traditional controllers like the DS3 or DS4 or Classic Controller.

The fact that Mario Kart or Wii Fit sold crazy numbers means nothing to this particular discussion about control methods since both used the built-in intuitive controls to play as opposed to requiring complex button inputs.

What are you talking about?
Wii Fit needed an additional controller, that is not even similar to the Wiimote. That was even really expensive. And that worked more than well. The Wii audience bought different types of controllers (or even plastic cases for the Wiimote) without any problems whatsoever.

That wouldn't have really worked on Playstation (see dildo controller), but it definitely worked on Wii. And as I already said - to me doing so makes sense.

And anyway - I already said that there are plenty of games on Wii, that needed "complex button inputs" and either only supported the Wiimote or Wiimote + Classic Controller. You don't want to seriously say that for example Metroid Prime 3 didn't require complex controller inputs? Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition didn't require complex controller inputs? Are you kidding? RE4 Wii actually controlled best on Wii.

There are even titles, that support Balance Board + Wiimote+Nunchuk / Wii U gamepad AT THE SAME TIME. Now that's what I call complex controls. I'm sure that plenty of so called "hardcore"-gamers would have a problem controlling such games.

The default Wiimote + Nunchuk combo is not a perfect solution but it is an intuitive solution that resonated very well with people who found something like the PlayStation Dualshock controller to be extremely intimidating. I'll point you at the Iwata Asks quote that I referenced above.

So? Doesn't make the Wiimote + Nunchuk unable to support complex control schemes.
The Wiimote worked that extremely well, because most people have experience with remote controls. The Wiimote felt just like one of those remote controls. It was intuitive to use.

How many units did Xenoblade sell while making full use of the Classic/Pro Controller?

Sure, it totally sold that badly because of the Classic Controller support and not because it was a niche-Japanese-RPG (and wasn't even released properly in US).

How many units did The Last Story sell?

Niche game. Nintendo didn't even want to release it in the US. Do you understand that?

You see, BOTH of those games supported Classic Controller, but also supported Wiimote + Nunchuk. Your argument falls flat. They didn't even require a Classic Controller (literally nothing was stripped, some people actually prefer Wiimote+Nunchuck for Xenoblade + Last Story), although both of those were also released as bundle editions.

Finally, complex games and complex (like DualShock or Classic/Pro Controller) controllers are not mutually inclusive nor are they mutually exclusive. You can have fairly complex games on a simple hardware but it still comes down to what you are willing to compromise on. I mean, we got Xenoblade, Okami and Muramasa the Demon Blade on Wii, doesn't necessarily mean that they all sold exceedingly well.

Funny that you mention Okami.
That game actually controlled best using the Wiimote (as soon as people actually read the manual and understood that there was a second paint button to do straight lines - sure weird choice, but whatever) and didn't support the Classic Controller at all.

And what do you know, it seems the PS2 version, that used the "complex" (lol) DualShock controller sold worse than the Wii version. The Wii version didn't even support the Classic Controller at all. Yeah, the game didn't sell that well in any case, but what do you know, that's because it is a niche game.

What actions were possible on PS2, that were stripped in the Wii edition, because of the "limited" Wiimote + Nunchuk controls? Nothing was stripped? Can't be!

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Here's a follow-up he just posted. I appreciate the transparency.

Fuck Konami.

An old Japanese executive... why I'm not surprised? Even the most clueless intern would make a better job on it. The idiot didn't even bother in offer a explanation.