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Mario Kart WiiU - Still stuttering?!

Simbabbad

Member
Shameful.
There is a good chunk of objectively true statements in there. How is truth "shameful"?

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that if a game has a frame pacing issue then everyone sees it.
What? Are you seriously arguing that "everyone" sees this thing, when even on NeoGAF most people don't? Are you "qualified to make this assessment"?
 

EthanC

Banned
There is a good chunk of objectively true statements in there. How is truth "shameful"?


What? Are you seriously arguing that "everyone" sees this thing, when even on NeoGAF most people don't? Are you "qualified to make this assessment"?

You can't not see it if it exists. Frame pacing problems aren't somehow invisible to a select group of gamers. It's a matter of whether or not it affects you negatively. You're seeing it whether you want to believe it or not.
 

The Boat

Member
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that if a game has a frame pacing issue then everyone sees it. It just doesn't bother some people the way it does someone else. For me, I noticed it immediately in Mario Kart. Nintendo games are usually incredibly smooth, so it was jarring to see this.
You're in a thread with gaming enthusiasts where loads of them don't see it, yet you say everyone sees it. You're saying people are lying?
It doesn't matter if it's there if you don't notice and lots of people don't notice that kind of detail, it's that simple. Sucks for those who notice it, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone becomes super sensitive to it.
 
See, I think it's this complaining about nothing that I find shameful.
How is it possible to enjoy life with that mindset?
Yeah I know, I'm complaining :p

OP brought up a genuine concern about a video game on a forum where we discuss video games and articulated his feelings on the subject well without hyperbole.

The only one complaining about nothing is you.
 

EthanC

Banned
You're in a thread with gaming enthusiasts where loads of them don't see it, yet you say everyone sees it. You're saying people are lying?
It doesn't matter if it's there of you don't notice and lost people don't notice that kind of detail, it's that simple. Sucks for those who notice it, but that doesn't mean suddenly everyone becomes super sensitive to it.

They see it. You can't play a game with frame pacing issues and not see it. It's not yes or no proposition. It just doesn't affect some people.
 

Planet

Member
A good chunk of the lol goes to "I'll skip an entire Nintendo generation because a frame out of 60 is doubled in a single game".
Said who? Certainly not me.

What I really said, was explained in more detail here. But you skipped that for the lols. More power to you!
 

The Boat

Member
They see it. You can't play a game with frame pacing issues and not see it. It's not yes or no proposition. It just doesn't affect some people.
It's not a matter of being affected, it's a matter of NOTICING it. You may be looking at 60 frames being displayed in a second with a duplicated frame every 64 frames, that is happening and it's there and you're looking at it, but that doesn't mean you NOTICE it. It's safe to say that most people don't.

You might be looking at something, but that doesn't mean you're processing every detail.
 

KooopaKid

Banned
OP brought up a genuine concern about a video game on a forum where we discuss video games and articulated his feelings on the subject well without hyperbole.

The only one complaining about nothing is you.

Sorry but no, it's not a genuine concern any way you look at it. He could easily ignore this tiny issue and be happy playing the game, but no, he can't probably sleep at night because of it and has to make a thread about it.
 

tengiants

Member
You can't not see it if it exists. Frame pacing problems aren't somehow invisible to a select group of gamers. It's a matter of whether or not it affects you negatively. You're seeing it whether you want to believe it or not.

This is not true. Motion perception is much more nuanced than that. Check out the Wikipedia page on Motion Perception and you will find this is actually a highly studied subject in all sorts of fields because of the importance of this nuance.

I personally don't see the frame stutter, but I'm not going to doubt that some people can because this is a very complex subject.
 
Sorry but no, it's not a genuine concern any way you look at it. He could easily ignore this tiny issue and be happy playing the game, but no, he can't probably sleep at night because of it and has to make a thread about it.

Are you trolling? He said it's annoying but that he loves the game.
 

Berordn

Member
It is not. In Bloodborne, the framerate is a bit unstable, but mostly holds a steady 30 FPS. Just that they are not evenly spaced in the 60 Hertz Screen refresh. So instead of having a new frame every other refresh, you sometimes get 2 new frames back to back, then the latter is repeated twice before the next update. The problem is called pacing.

In Mario Kart, exactly every 64th frame is doubled, while every other one is fresh. Especially because the rest is delivered so smoothly, the tiny hickup stands out like a beacon for some, while they might find Bloodborne more tolerable (haven't tried that out myself yet). I had similar issues with Blu-rays on my old TV, which wasn't exactly 24 FPS capable though it marked it as supported it to the media player. As it is a PAL region device, it switched to 50 Hertz and doubled every 24th frame, very annoying. I had to manually disable 24 FPS mode in the PS3/4 so that the console did all the 3:2-pulldown to 60 FPS, which worked much better.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. Definitely nothing alike, then.
 

brobban

Member
Sorry but no, it's not a genuine concern any way you look at it. He could easily ignore this tiny issue and be happy playing the game, but no, he can't probably sleep at night because of it and has to make a thread about it.
Can't tell if you're serious?

Of course no concern within gaming is a real issue. Kids dying on the Mediterranean trying to escape war is serious. But as far as issues being discussed on this forum goes, it's as serious as anything else.
 

Yasumi

Banned
By complaining about a duplicate frame out of 60 per second.

How dare he. I'm sure Nintendo appreciates the damage control.

The apoligism to dissuade this as an actual issue that might affect some people comes off as incredibly childish.
 
By complaining about a duplicate frame out of 60 per second.

An analysis.


Digital Foundry said:
When it comes to performance, Nintendo has always aimed to deliver a rock-solid 60 frames per second with each home console Mario Kart and, aside from Mario Kart 64, it has always managed to achieve just that. There was never any doubt that Mario Kart 8 would fall right in line with the rest of the series but upon seeing it for ourselves we immediately noticed that something was amiss. During gameplay we experienced the regular appearance of duplicate frames manifesting as a constant but subtle stuttering effect. Upon analysis we determined that the game suffers from extended clusters in which a duplicate frame is displayed every 64 frames. What this ultimately means is that, during normal gameplay, Mario Kart 8 continually drops down to 59fps. This may not seem like a big deal - most will probably not notice it at all, and it has zero affect on playability - but it has a noticeable impact on image fluidity that mars what would otherwise be a perfectly consistent frame-rate. And for us at least, once it is seen, it can't really be unseen.

What makes this situation all the more strange is the fact that this problem only appears when CPU opponents are active. In time trials or split-screen matches, with AI-controlled drivers disabled, the frame-rate updates flawlessly while race introductions and victory animations all display correctly as well. The frequency and pattern of this problem suggests an internal timing issue, potentially related to Mario Kart TV, rather than one of performance. We can't be certain where the root cause lies but we certainly do hope Nintendo will take time to correct this problem in a patch.

Like the OP, this is a measured look at the issue and why it's a problem. For those that do notice it, it can be very distracting.

I doubt you care, but I figured I'd give it one last shot to help you understand.
 

Stratostar

Member
I'll make this easy for you goobers.
No, this is not an issue. No, it won't be patched. Yes, you're oversensitive if you're somehow bothered by this, and you have my pity.
Anyone who claims to have noticed this before it was made known by Digital Foundry is lying.
 
I'll make this easy for you goobers.
No, this is not an issue. No, it won't be patched. Yes, you're oversensitive if you're somehow bothered by this, and you have my pity.
Anyone who claims to have noticed this before it was made known by Digital Foundry is lying.

Here's my post from the original thread on the subject back in May.

I pre-ordered this game over a month ago and absolutely can't wait to play it.

That being said, so it is possible to notice this? Because I thought I noticed it in videos but figured it was my imagination.

Why would I lie about this? What incentive would I have? Am I oversensitive or a liar?

Was Digital Foundry lying with their analysis?
 

The Boat

Member
I'll make this easy for you goobers.
No, this is not an issue. No, it won't be patched. Yes, you're oversensitive if you're somehow bothered by this, and you have my pity.
Anyone who claims to have noticed this before it was made known by Digital Foundry is lying.

Let's not go off the other deep end, some people may have noticed it before the article.
 

KooopaKid

Banned

An analysis.


Like the OP, this is a measured look at the issue and why it's a problem. For those that do notice it, it can be very distracting.

I doubt you care, but I figured I'd give it one last shot to help you understand.

Thanks for your time but it's still not a real problem. It is very easy to forget about it while playing. It's like complaining that Mario's cap is red and that it's distracting while racing. Do you want Nintendo to change Mario's cap color too?

The apoligism to dissuade this as an actual issue that might affect some people comes off as incredibly childish.

Being ultra nitpicky is childish.
 
I'll just say that if it's an issue that, if fixed, can only possibly improve the experience for everyone at best and non-plus 99% of people at worst, it ought to be done. This is one of those things. Is Nintendo simply sitting on their asses? Or is there some reason they can't? I don't know, but in any case, it's a shame that Nintendo was -that- close to achieving their usual standard. Nintendo doesn't always hit it themselves and even then still manage to impress (which is more than what can be said for most developers), but not like -this-.
 

Simbabbad

Member
None of those quotes are objective.
All the quotes about the huge majority not caring or not even knowing there is an "issue" at all are objectively true, for a start. Even the tiny minority complaining about it admits they would have never noticed it had Digital Foundry not talked about it.

How dare he. I'm sure Nintendo appreciates the damage control.
There has to be damage for damage control to exist.
 

Yasumi

Banned
Thanks for your time but it's still not a real problem. It is very easy to forget about it while playing. It's like complaining that Mario's cap is red and that it's distracting while racing. Do you want Nintendo to change Mario's cap color too?

Being ultra nitpicky is childish.

All the quotes about the huge majority not caring or not even knowing there is an "issue" at all are objectively true, for a start. Even the tiny minority complaining about it admits they would have never noticed it had Digital Foundry not talked about it.


There has to be damage for damage control to exist.

So it's the user's fault for noticing the duplicate 64th frame, and people shouldn't complain because it's not an issue to you and the other posters who dismissed OP's complaint? Hoo boy. This is some next level stuff.
 

Planet

Member
The level of Nintendo is god and cannot do wrong hyperbole is getting amazing. Stuttering is like cap color, what the actual...

Some people define freedom of speech as the freedom to hammer their opinion into everyone's mind.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
So from the wave of defensiveness I'm seeing this thread, there's not a 59 frame issue in Mario Kart 8? I swore I saw Digital Foundry say otherwise.
 

KooopaKid

Banned
So it's the user's fault for noticing the duplicate 64th frame, and people shouldn't complain because it's not an issue to you and the other posters who dismissed OP's complaint? Hoo boy. This is some next level stuff.

Yes, it's not an issue with normal human beings. Nintendo intended the game for Terrians not for Kryptonians. By noticing the duplicate 64th frame, the OP could create a spatio-temporal rift.
 
So from the wave of defensiveness I'm seeing this thread, there's not a 59 frame issue in Mario Kart 8? I swore I saw Digital Foundry say otherwise.

There is, they proved it. It's just such an inconsequential thing to nitpick about and shouldn't/doesn't impact the game experience. Just because there's one tiny technical wobble in the game engine doesn't mean it should get an entire writeup or fervent reaction.
 

Yasumi

Banned
There is, they proved it. It's just such an inconsequential thing to nitpick about and shouldn't/doesn't impact the game experience. Just because there's one tiny technical wobble in the game engine doesn't mean it should get an entire writeup or fervent reaction.

He wrote four sentences about a visual issue that brought down his gaming experience. I'm seeing a far more fervent reaction from people telling him to suck it up and stop complaining about a genuine issue.
 

The_Lump

Banned
TBF...I don't think "stutter" is the right word. Stutter implies an inconsistent variation. This a very consistent variation ;)

In all seriousness though, it's allegedly still there but I've never noticed it once.

Game runs smoother than Sinatra smothered in SMJÖR.
 
Im usually extremely sensitive to microstutter, its an annoyingly common issue on pc, but despite knowing it exists in MK8 I've never actually noticed it there.
 

AetherZX

Member
I've struggled to even notice it back when I was actively playing it. That may change since I recently got a new PC though.
 

Crispy

Member
I noticed this immediately at the launch event which I attended and have noticed it ever since. It definitely lessens the enjoyment I get from the game. Weird thing is that I also played dozens of hours of Bloodborne and never had any issues with the framepacing in that game.
 
All the quotes about the huge majority not caring or not even knowing there is an "issue" at all are objectively true, for a start. Even the tiny minority complaining about it admits they would have never noticed it had Digital Foundry not talked about it.


There has to be damage for damage control to exist.
You skipped over my post that said I noticed it before the DF article.
 

Sagitario

Member
After that first thread about this 59fps thing I have TRIED to notice the stutter, but I can't. I do crash when I try though since I don't focus on the race enough. Not saying it's not there, it is, the slowed down videos prove it, but even after it has been pointed out to me, I still can't see it. I guess I'm lucky?

Do you have a link to the slowed videos?
 
Yes, it's not an issue with normal human beings. Nintendo intended the game for Terrians not for Kryptonians. By noticing the duplicate 64th frame, the OP could create a spatio-temporal rift.

Jesus christ, grow up. Just because YOU and other people won't notice it or isn't an issue, doesn't mean that it actually isn't an issue.
 

Roo

Member
I noticed it when I got the game at launch.
Didn't bother me even tho I could see it.

On the other hand, I don't play offline single player at all so I couldn't care less.
 
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