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Minnesota man who killed teens in break-in charged with murder
- Thread starter The Culture Vulture
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IHaveCandy
Banned
Killing in self-defense should be acceptable. Executing when you've already detained the intruder is not self-defense.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Maybe he wasn't thinking logically at that point, maybe his animal instincts kicked-in.
Some people don't have that control, I also fear the day where I will have to show such restraint.
Maybe I'm projecting, or maybe it's empathy where I put myself in his shoes.
Of course, the way he said ''finishing shit'' or something similar sounds awfully heinous, but we'll never know because we weren't there, and aren't able to enter his mind.
I assume the account in the article in the OP was from the shooter himself? Given that it reads very strangely.
And I wonder, after the 2nd intruder coming down the stairs (after hearing gunfire or having seen her friend on the floor?) whether the shooter assumed there may be more people in the house? I'm just trying to work out what would push someone to shoot people in that manner.
Anyway, awful all round.
EDIT: I see it was already covered by Flo_Evans...
And I wonder, after the 2nd intruder coming down the stairs (after hearing gunfire or having seen her friend on the floor?) whether the shooter assumed there may be more people in the house? I'm just trying to work out what would push someone to shoot people in that manner.
Anyway, awful all round.
EDIT: I see it was already covered by Flo_Evans...
Lonewolf_92
Member
I know what you mean. One other thing that bugs me about this story, these two supposed pill-heads break into this house looking for a score and, instead of the bathroom, kitchen, or bedroom (you know, places people keep their pills), or the livingroom (for valuables), they head into the basement looking for loot/drugs? I can't think of many things that a person would keep in their basement that would be worth lugging through the woods to get to someplace to resell, certainly nothing worth the risk of B&E. Something about this whole thing smells off to me...
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
They either knew he was packing, OR!
He caught them upstairs, pulled a gun on them, told them to 'walk!' down the stairs, and then executed them there while they pleaded for their lives, so as not to alert the neighbors of course.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
I'm pretty sure his side of the story is not the real sequence of events either, I mean, he's the only one who can tell a story, after all.
He could be deranged, I'm open to that possibility.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Then not only should those people that meet such a description never be able to own a firearm, but you shouldn't either.
As an owner of several guns myself, you're the kind of person that scares me. One who is not in tune to themselves and is not peaceful at their core. Unstable under pressure.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
So an unarmed person that could act on animal instinct scares you?
Hmm, let's see, the only time I'll ever WILLINGLY wield a gun is during the zombie apocalypse, so you're safe.
I don't chose to hold onto a destructive weapon like you do, how big is your cock?
YOU scare me.
Dreams-Visions
Member
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Don't try to give another meaning to the nature of owning guns, we only know the true reductionist nature, and let's keep it at that.
You can't be zen with a gun, you blood thirsty partisan of the gun industry.
Drop your gun, and fight with your fists.
You could have easily said I was spooky without mentioning how you own a gun, but no, you thought saying that would give you more credence, does it make you feel more secure in what you say?
It only made me gravitate to demeaning comments about your potential impotence.
Like I said, drop your gun, and the false sense of security that comes along with it.
Owning a gun doesn't give you the right to judge others either.
I can be human, and unsure of the restraint I will show if my life is in danger, deal with it.
The only way to know yourself is through your organic body, not by a metal extension of your member.
Show me your commitment to the human race and yourself by destroying your guns, sending a message to gun factories everywhere, that guns don't sell, we don't need guns to live in harmony.
Pretty much, especially after the other thread where people were carefully not saying they also would've killing the guy (but they totally were ok with it).
Lots of sociopaths lurking...
GrandHarrier
Member
Or people who don't want human scum home invading them? Best way to not get shot during a home invasion? Don't break into people's houses with the intent to rob them. Your life isn't worth the shit you want to steal.
How much is a human life worth?
GrandHarrier
Member
Never have to ask that question if people don't invade someone else's home.
Should people be allowed to invade other people's home without consequence?
Glorified G
Member
If you break into someones home, I don't feel sorry for you if you get shot multiple times.
That's a question both sides of the equation should ask themselves I guess.
I think it's easy to be one on the internet.
How about when you have someone at your mercy and can execute them? Probably a good time to ask that question right then? Possibly the BEST time?
GrandHarrier
Member
Not defending execution. But I ask YOU, why is that person in my house in the first place??? I wouldn't have to shoot someone if they weren't invading my home, right? Do they have a right to home invasion me???
Glorified G
Member
Home invaders & mercy should be mutually exclusive. However, the whole leaving the bodies overnight is fucked up. He should have alerted the police right afterwards.
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
You American's sound blood thirsty
Anyway, that's a debate for another time
He executed these kids in cold blood, didn't report the crime and openly admitted he shot one in the chest more times than necessary
It's a wrap, throw away the key and let him rot. He is probably a sociopath murderer who would have done this at some point
Anyway, that's a debate for another time
He executed these kids in cold blood, didn't report the crime and openly admitted he shot one in the chest more times than necessary
It's a wrap, throw away the key and let him rot. He is probably a sociopath murderer who would have done this at some point
Dude sounds like he went off the deep end... not sociopathic. Even his recantation of the story makes it obvious. I've never seen anyone get shot and "laugh". Not even meth addicts.
Guy snapped when his home was broken into for the ninth time, saw his fucked up work in front of him, put the kids out of their misery, rationalized the shit he did in his head by himself as hours no doubt felt like days in a house by himself, then turned himself in.
Its not like he shot kids while sitting on his porch after drinking Red Stag and watching the Cowboys lose.
No one has said you haven't the right to defend yourself, or the right to invade anyone's place, either. You can stop that strawman now.
What you don't have the right to do is execute people.
Nah, the dude was fucked up and I wouldn't be surprised if he used those hours before calling the cops to jerk off a couple of times over his "accomplishment"
Agent Unknown
Member
Yes? That's exactly what I just said. The guy had the right to defend himself, not execute two teenagers after he'd already wounded them. As soon as they were incapacitated he should have called the cops and 9/11. Instead, he wounds the guy, THEN shoots him in the head and puts his body on a tarp and then waited for the girl to come down the stairs before doing the exact same thing to her. That's not self defense, that's a cold blooded murderer who wanted an excuse to kill two people and got it. He was obviously warming up to this point based on his neighbors' very negative accounts of his behavior beforehand.
But of course, as usual here comes contrarian-GAF to defend "the poor confused old man in his home" who bragged to cops about "a good clean kill shot" and then endlessly split hairs over what the definition of the word execution is. Thank goodness this sort of behavior IS considered by the law to be over the line. If it wasn't, rogue cops couldn't be held accountable for when they themselves go off the deep end when apprehending people.
Right, and then the DA would have confirmed how reasonable and "non-violent" you are by setting bail at a million plus for "finishing them off in your rage." I'm sure this kind of idiocy often passes in places like TX and would just be business as usual "You go, son" but up north most people don't think owning a house and a gun gives one the right to behave like they're living in the frontier era days, picking off people trying to jump their claims. I sympathize with anyone who has to deal with the fear and frustration of being robbed, but this guy was just flat out venting and acting out.
We're actually the same opinion because my comment wasn't directed at the initial shots but at the executions.
Not sure how this guy would handle a bad divorce or a conflict with a neighbor.
I'm not sure where I stand on this one
On one hand - don't fucking break into people's homes?
On the other, the executions were clearly way over the top and unneccessary. Should've wounded and detained them.
Both parties obviously in the wrong but this never would've happened if the kids didn't decide to commit a felony.
On one hand - don't fucking break into people's homes?
On the other, the executions were clearly way over the top and unneccessary. Should've wounded and detained them.
Both parties obviously in the wrong but this never would've happened if the kids didn't decide to commit a felony.
GrandHarrier
Member
The part I can't stress enough. They were committing home invasion. Don't home invade? I'm not advocating execution... But FFS, why do people knowingly invading your home deserve any mercy?
Why would you consider not murdering someone "mercy"?
Wafflecakes
Member
No "right" side in this.
Guy deserves to be charged with murder for what he did.
Kids took their lives in their own hands when they broke into someone else's home.
Guy deserves to be charged with murder for what he did.
Kids took their lives in their own hands when they broke into someone else's home.
Because apparently do thieves get the death sentence
SteveWinwood
Member
The Star Tribune reported this morning that the teenagers could be also linked with a different home invasion from the night before.
Here is the link: http://www.startribune.com/local/east/181119611.html
I bring this up as I've seen elsewhere in the discussion about all this that are bordering on accusing him of straight up murder and then dragging the corpses in his house and staging and lying about some invasion scenario.
GrandHarrier
Member
Depends on your definition of murder. I would try to make my first shot a kill shot. I don't want to risk my or my families life to the unknown. I'd call 911 immediately after.
Agent Unknown
Member
IF AS IN THIS CASE, WHEN THE INTRUDERS HAVE A-L-R-E-A-D-Y BEEN I-N-C-A-P-A-C-I-T-A-T-E-D, IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO THEN DELIBERATELY KILL THEM. Get it? If it's common sense that cops can't just go around offing perps unimpeded, then Joe Shotgun obviously shouldn't be allowed to either.
And yet here you are saying they shouldn't have been shown mercy, even after it's been clearly established and explained a million times over and over that the guy killed them AFTER he had ALREADY successfully defended himself. The DA was 100% correct in judging this as far beyond lawful self defense. End of story.
And when the first shot doesn't kill them you'd walk up to them and put a bullet in their head? No? I guess that is because defending yourself and executing someone isn't the same thing.
The first shot is self defense, so killing them with the initial shot isn't murder. But once you fire and they've fallen down the steps, an additional shot intended solely to kill isn't a reasonable application of force since you're no longer defending yourself.
Xenon
Member
This part doesn't really matter, but I agree with what you said.
That said, FUCK thieves.
Edit: A teacher from the area nailed it. "The whole thing is very sad that they lost their lives," he said. "In the same instance, if they hadn't been breaking into houses, they'd be alive."
GrandHarrier
Member
Obviously. Both sides of this are fucked. I don't condone execution. However I just don't get why home invasion is given a pass. I experienced it as a child and few things are more frightening. It's like some people want insurance for home invaders; let's worry about them, their rights, their needs. They are evil people committing an evil crime.
I feel bad for their families, it's hard to lose a loved one, especially this way.
Who is giving home invasion a pass?
So, that's a no then? I don't see anyone defending his actions once he incapacitated the intruders (ie, the executions). I only see people defending his right to self defense, which is what this was up until the point he "finished them off".
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