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[AzaK]

Or alternatively. When they started to work on WiiU. They could have set up more internal development teams and started to farm out the work to good third parties with a proven track record.
There is no excuse for the lack of good software on WiiU apart from bad management.

Yup, very bad management caused by extreme hubris. Thinking that the reception at pre 3DS launch E3 meant people would be happy being gouged was arrogant and the had to go into extreme panic mode. Then seemingly thinking that due to Wii's succes they could basically do the same with Wii U tech/feature wise (minimum effort and expense on core tech but a wazzy controller) and third parties would be gagging to have their games on it.

They often feel like a company that's releasing their first console. Inexperienced and blinkered.

Their approach with the Wii really hamstrung them. They really should've done HD support last gen.

Yup. Basically a 360 lite would have been cheap for people and more port friendly.

 

[AzaK]

This is such a specious argument. There is literally no way to "get ready for HD". Either you have a methodology to develop games in HD, which you form by developing HD games, or you don't.

How the hell do you guys think software development works?

By learning from previous engineers. That's how software engineering works. Do you think the first time they needed to look up an item by key quickly that they invented the map?

If they had have talked with others early they would have realised a lot of what was required and with all their cash they could have prepared a few years earlier.

 

[Cheerilee]

It's awfully hard to develop software for hardware that doesn't exist yet.

"In August of 95, one of the US's largest CG conventions, SIGGRAPH, was held in Los Angeles. At that time we were not sure what the next generation RPG game should look like, so as an experiment we created a CG based, game like, interactive demo to be presented at the show. It focused on battle scenes that were 100% real time and polygon based. This became the seed of Final Fantasy VII and it was then that we decided to make this a CG based game."

To get up to speed for a new generation, Square took a portion of one of their most recent games and recreated it on a supercomputer, without knowing any specifics about the console hardware they would eventually be working on. They just needed to get some experience working with some kind of next-gen hardware before it was upon them.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Well hopefully this will mean more M&A for Nintendo. There are a lot of financially weak companies nintendo could use as first party resources

 

[Elfforkusu]

By learning from previous engineers. That's how software engineering works. Do you think the first time they needed to look up an item by key quickly that they invented the map?

If they had have talked with others early they would have realised a lot of what was required and with all their cash they could have prepared a few years earlier.

That only addresses the technical side of things ("how do shaders work"), not the organization changes that come from doubling the size of a development team. It's also one thing to know how to do something, and another to apply that knowledge to (potentially many) previously unaware code bases.

To get up to speed for a new generation, Square took a portion of one of their most recent games and recreated it on a supercomputer, without knowing any specifics about the console hardware they would eventually be working on. They just needed to get some experience working with some kind of next-gen hardware before it was upon them.

Prototyping is as old as software development. It's not what I'm talking about. Unless you're suggesting that they should've made a full-fledged Mario Galaxy 3 that only runs on a supercomputer so they could work through the growing pains.

 

[Krilekk]

This is what GAF, Sony, Microsoft, most gaming journalists, industry speculators (Pachter, etc.), 3rd party developers and publishers, and anyone that has any insight into the industry has been saying since ~2006-2008, when suddenly every studio on Earth that was developing at HD resolutions realized it takes a bit more time/effort/money/etc to produce modern games.

Was Nintendo figuratively a damn ostrich with its head in the sand from 2006-2012?

Nintendo only cares about Nintendo. If you're successful, why change? I think they are equally surprised that people are starting to demand new IPs from them.

 

[The_Endgamer]

Yeah, must've been hard for the higher-ups to greenlight the fur on Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze...

FFS Nintendo, try making an effort.

 

[wsippel]

I don't mean develop the software for it. I mean put the infrastructure in place to prepare for it -- e.g. new HQs, facilities, and staff as needed. Begin building an engine to prepare for the new generation in 2010 or 2011.

If they started ramping up, then clearly they did not ramp up enough, by their own admission, despite having ample evidence at their disposal just how much ramping up was needed. They could have looked at any of their competitors (i.e. Sony and MS) or their partners (e.g. Ubisoft) to get a general sense of what they needed.

They started building a new HQ with room for many more developers several years ago, but large construction projects take a while. It's expected to be completed later this year. Retro also moved to a new, bigger office recently and hired tons of developers, nearly doubling their workforce compared to 2010 if I remember correctly. They also created Monolith Kyoto and made Brownie Brown a support studio, both of which are hiring. But all of those things take time, and probably went slower than anticipated.

And I'm pretty damn sure they have several HD engines and pipelines already. Monolith started working on their HD pipeline back in 2009 or 2010 for example.

 

[Captain Smoker]

:lol at all the comments saying welcome to 2006. Nintendo have been hiring a fuck ton of people leading up to Wii U development, and built a huge new R&D centre. I think they realised this beforehand, Miyamoto's just highlighting how they're not used to it and took time to adapt.

Thank you sir for the only reasonable post.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

Yes. And they would have been a lot more prepared to support the Wii U with games, features and services. This would have likely prevented the Wii U from becoming the giant clusterfuck of failure worthy of mockery that it is today.

Preparing for the future...how does it work...?

So to prevent a ten month software drought, they would have been paying roughly twice as much in wages as they needed, for the last five years? And this is supposedly a better option financially?

Budgets, how do they work?

 

[royalan]

So to prevent a ten month software drought, they would have been paying roughly twice as much in wages as they needed, for the last five years? And this is supposedly a better option financially?

Budgets, how do they work?

I don't understand how you're figuring that it would precisely double their budget.

Also, I think you're crazy if you believe that all we're going to see is a ten month drought here, seeing as Nintendo doesn't seem to have much planned for after upcoming titles release.

 

[Bill Rizer]

The more you know...

 

[MrT-Tar]

Nintendo only cares about Nintendo. If you're successful, why change? I think they are equally surprised that people are starting to demand new IPs from them.

Haven't they made quite a few in the 7th and the early 8th generation? Hence a reason to be legitimately surprised.

Off the top of my head, I can name stuff like Xenoblade Chronices, Soma Bringer, Disaster: DoC, Wii..., Nintendogs, Brain Training, Maboshi, Art Style, Dillon, Pullblox/Pushmo, Marionation Gear, Steel Diver, etc.

 

[AmFreak]

So to prevent a ten month software drought, they would have been paying roughly twice as much in wages as they needed, for the last five years? And this is supposedly a better option financially?

Budgets, how do they work?

They should have hired people in the ~2 year span leading to the launch. So that they would have had a constant stream of games beginning with the launch.

 

[Berg]

Also, I think you're crazy if you believe that all we're going to see is a ten month drought here, seeing as Nintendo doesn't seem to have much planned for after upcoming titles release.

Yea because Nintendo announces every single game they currently have under development.

There are more unannounced Wii U titles coming by 2014.

 

[gutter_trash]

Welcome to 2006, Nintendo.

1st post nailed again

 

[Hazelhurst]

Well they basically have until Holiday this year to catch up. We'll see if Super Mario 3D World truly "re-launches" their line-up of games or if it's just going to be a year of Mario Kart 8 and maybe Smash Bros.

Mario Kart is early 2014.

 

[royalan]

Yea because Nintendo announces every single game they currently have under development.

...did they say that last year about 2013?

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[metalslimer]

They started building a new HQ with room for many more developers several years ago, but large construction projects take a while. It's expected to be completed later this year. Retro also moved to a new, bigger office recently and hired tons of developers, nearly doubling their workforce compared to 2010 if I remember correctly. They also created Monolith Kyoto and made Brownie Brown a support studio, both of which are hiring. But all of those things take time, and probably went slower than anticipated.

And I'm pretty damn sure they have several HD engines and pipelines already. Monolith started working on their HD pipeline back in 2009 or 2010 for example.

Eh..not really. There is no real source for how many people work at Retro and I actually don't think it's that much more than when they made DKCR. While they have hired some new people (definitely not double the staff) they have also lost people as well. Which makes sense as to why DKCR TF took another 3 years to make and they only have enough staff for one game at a time.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Now we're back to "Nintendo hasn't revealed any games past what's coming out in the next six months. They're probably not making any more games."

This is pretty silly given it's a fact Nintendo now operates by revealing most new projects when they're less than a year out. On top of Iwata specifying that they are developing yet more games and applications for a near future release but are holding the reveal of these in check.

That Nintendo ran into delays increasing development capacity does not mean said capacity will never improve or has not in fact already improved. Unless that big new building they've been knocking together for years is mostly for storing Iwata's bananas. And all those people they've been hiring are window washers.

 

[BlackJace]

Also, I think you're crazy if you believe that all we're going to see is a ten month drought here, seeing as Nintendo doesn't seem to have much planned for after upcoming titles release.

lol there's not many months left after 10. What, do you think were going to go a whole year without games? If so, allow me to laugh even harder.

 

[Chû Totoro]

It's sad that they seem to have discovered this only this gen but in a way this makes me really exited for the games they'll manage to achieve at the end of this gen life cycle. Even if Wii U is never becoming a success, only Nintendo support could bring such awesome games.

Still for their business it's sad because people don't want to wait and it's legitimate because, clearly, a big company like Nintendo should have been prepared better for the Wii U launch.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

lol there's not many months left after 10. What, do you think were goog to go a whole year without games? If so, allow me to laugh even harder.

I think he's implying there's going to be a second 10 month drought after this holiday?

 

[royalan]

lol there's not many months left after 10. What, do you think were goog to go a whole year without games? If so, allow me to laugh even harder.

BlackJace, are you stalking me?

Either way, I'm referring to the Wii U's entire lifecycle. If, well, pretty much EVERY other Nintendo console since the SNES is any indication, this initial drought won't be the only one we have to deal with.

 

[BlackJace]

BlackJace, are you stalking me?

Either way, I'm referring to the Wii U's entire lifecycle. If, well, pretty much EVERY other Nintendo console since the SNES is any indication, this initial drought won't be the only one we have to deal with.

Nah, no stalking, I assure you. If that's what you meant, then I'd somewhat agree, but droughts aren't a thing exclusive to them.

 

[Hooflung128]

Awesome thanks dude...
The Nintendo Web Framework is a development environment based on WebKit technologies, supporting application development on the Wii U system using HTML5, JavaScript, and CSS.
Lol well that's not going to make games, Nintendo d00med :O.

You most certainly can make games with that especially if they open up their graphics API to JavaScript. Fwiw Unity scripts with JavaScript so it is not unreasonable to think Nintendo won't do the same.

 

[lo zaffo]

Nintendo reveils well in advance when in disperate hours like these days: X, Smash Bros U, Kart U, Bayo 2 U, not to mention Zelda U which does not ever exist on paper and Aonuma aknowledges for biggest Zelda team project. Nintendo lies, fans cry as usual.

 

[AzaK]

Haven't they made quite a few in the 7th and the early 8th generation? Hence a reason to be legitimately surprised.

Off the top of my head, I can name stuff like Xenoblade Chronices, Soma Bringer, Disaster: DoC, Wii..., Nintendogs, Brain Training, Maboshi, Art Style, Dillon, Pullblox/Pushmo, Marionation Gear, Steel Diver, etc.

But most are casual titles and not what 'we' want from them. IMO most are shit too and not worth more than an hour of your time and 5 bucks.

 

[Septimius]

This is such a specious argument. There is literally no way to "get ready for HD". Either you have a methodology to develop games in HD, which you form by developing HD games, or you don't.

How the hell do you guys think software development works?

There's no doubt that there might be surprises, but lacking the foresight to expect some surprises is what's really baffling. There are so many experienced HD-devs out there, and that Nintendo has done nothing to acquire the knowledge of someone having walked the path before them is beyond excuse.

The fact that they force themselves to trod down the same path everyone else has for years, basically plugging their ears, seemingly, is what's upsetting. There's nothing revolutionizing about the Wii U, so there should be equally few surprises during development. Some, of course, but they also should have the foresight for that. Their inability to not only move forward, but also stop to consider that pushing out the same IPs is like a stripper shooting ping-pong balls out of her yoo-hoo is fun the first ten balls, but now we've seen it. The only thing fascinating at this point is seeing how many balls they've shoved up their snatch.

 

[Haunted]

What an incredible lack of foresight on Nintendo's part.

 

[robertsan21]

I was a HUGE Nintendo fan back in the day but unfortunately Nintendo did some bad choices in not targeting next gen graphics like Sony did with PS3.

For Nintendo to be relevant in 2 years, they need to come up with something truly amazing. The only way I see that happening is if they launch a new Console, it has to be up there against PS4.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I was a HUGE Nintendo fan back in the day but unfortunately Nintendo did some bad choices in not targeting next gen graphics like Sony did with PS3.

For Nintendo to be relevant in 2 years, they need to come up with something truly amazing. The only way I see that happening is if they launch a new Console, it has to be up there against PS4.

If they kill the wiiu after 1-2 years that will be nintendos death as a console manufacturer. They will need to focus on handheld only from thereon

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Good thing they anticipated this and spent the years before the Wii U's release to hire new developers and prepare for the launch.

No, because Nintendo doesn't give a shit about what's going on in the wider industry and plays by its own rules. Thankfully they have received a cold, hard slap for this mentality this time around.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I just think its unnaceptable for a company like Nintendo to constantly release statements like this.

"We need more time, please understand!"

"We underestimated the man power it takes to make HD!"

Great....

So when we get Mario Kart 8, it will be just as desolate as MK7 as far as features go. Seriously, when I started up MK7 on 3DS and saw the menu options.. I litterally thought I had a demo verison. 2 modes, no variety.


This is what we will have to accept with any future WiiU games as well. They wont be putting time into features and extras for their games when they have to spend most of their time focusing on this HD transformation.

Enough excuses, Nintendo. Youre making it extremely hard to defend.

Get rid of the old geezers stuck in 1995 and hire some young fresh blood that is willing to take risks and work their asses off.

You would think so but funnily enough its not only Nintendo but also Sony or Ms.


MS just comes from a DRM and kinect spycam PR desaster.
Sony does a great job on PS4 for the moment but did a bad job on psp, ps3 (at least initially) and vita.

I guess companies do see all the problems forum posters speak about but they also need to defend themselves investing millions to their higher ups or investors. Tjat or they become arrogant after success of previous hardware (nintendo came from 3 succesful platforms and one big turnaround into the wiiu launch)

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I think this would have been slightly more forgivable if they had at least filled the gaps with HD Wiimakes. Mario Galaxy Collection alone would have gone a long way with many gamers. Hell, look at the Dolphin thread, apparently there are games where the assets hold up surprisingly well, all things considered. There's also the missed opportunity to capitalize on late generation software that didn't really reach its audience on Wii because it released after the system was all but dead. That stuff would have been good filler that wouldn't have taken up tons of Nintendo's resources.

 

[AzaK]

No, because Nintendo doesn't give a shit about what's going on in the wider industry and plays by its own rules. Thankfully they have received a cold, hard slap for this mentality this time around.

What has happened will not force Nintendo to change in the way a lot of us want (better third party and more competitive tech). If anything they will become more insular.

 

[polyh3dron]

When making games like Super Mario 3D World and DKC Returns Too Soon, which both could've been done on Wii?

Doubt it.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

When making games like Super Mario 3D World and DKC Returns Too Soon, which both could've been done on Wii?

Doubt it.

Well, at least you've given them a fair shake.

 

[tassletine]

Almost all of these negative comments fail to take into account that Nintendo develop software in a different way to most other companies. If a game isn't right, even when it's essentially completed they won't release it. Nintendo's release schedules are as unreliable as they have always been because of this. What he's talking about is the polishing of a product AT THE END of it's development. Read the quote.

What Myamoto is explaining is only that they took time to adapt to this level of polish at the end of the development cycle which is completely understandable. What he is NOT saying, and what most people think he is, is that they went in completely unprepared.

I loathe this attitude that the majority of people here have towards Nintendo.
They are mocked continuously for being out of touch but all I can see is a businessman explaining the problems in a calm and collected manner, which doesn't seem all that out of touch to me. It seems confident.
What doesn't seem confident is Microsoft's about turn, which has pretty much doomed as they have revealed themselves to be at the mercy of the Sony. Or the fact they think they can force expensive hardware onto us during a recession. That is out of touch. This is just a businessman explaining the process in a logical manner.

 

[AzaK]

I loathe this attitude that the majority of people here have towards Nintendo.
They are mocked continuously for being out of touch but all I can see is a businessman explaining the problems in a calm and collected manner, which doesn't seem all that out of touch to me. It seems confident.

I think why people are taking the piss is that he shouldn't really be saying these things. They should have had the foresight to see it coming (as in, look at all the other people struggling since 2005) and moved earlier. Especially seeing as they have a massive stockpile of cash and knew they were going HD right from the get go. They basically did nothing on Wii since 2010, and have done almost nothing for Wii U since launch.

In 2013, Miyamoto should NOT be saying Nintendo is having trouble with HD development, assuming that really is the problem.

 

[BowieZ]

Mario Kart is early 2014.

I mean that SM3DW could be the start of a steady stream of first and third party games, or a year (Holiday 2013 to Holiday 2014) of nothing but Kart and Smash.

 

[Aostia]

When making games like Super Mario 3D World and DKC Returns Too Soon, which both could've been done on Wii?

Doubt it.

You could have done them on the f***ing Amiga, too!!!

 

[Templar_Dante]

HIRE MORE STAFF, NINTENDO!
They simply need to expand here. Its generally the problem facing Japanese developers.
YES, its harder making games in the HD era. At the end of the day, its the only way to get with the times. It reminds me of the time Kaz Yamauchi said making the vehicles took a long time, up to six months for a single guy and it took 1 person just 1 week to make a GT1 car...
So.... have 20people work on it then?

Ninty need to wake up here. They need to expand. They need NEW IP's too. They also need to stop using Miyamoto like a damn crutch. They need to start aquiring more 1st party studios and have those teams dream up, experiment, draft new ideas, new I.Ps. It works wonders for Sony, It breaks my heart to see ol' Ninty still stumbling around in the dark when the other companies (Sony,MS) switched the light on in 2006.

 

[Sendou]

HIRE MORE STAFF, NINTENDO!

To be fair they're doing exactly that. The new building that is scheluded to finish this year won't be empty so to speak.

 

[Templar_Dante]

To be fair they're doing exactly that. The new building that is scheluded to finish this year won't be empty so to speak.

I thought they were simply relocating their staff to the new building rather than take on new staff..
What Ninty needs is new blood. I get the feeling whole company is unhealthily submerged in a sea of toxic groupthink.

 

[Boogalogist]

Building not complete... So they can slack on development of games? Surely they can temporary lease some space for their expanded group of programmers.

 

[drspeedy]

Damn, all Ninty needed to do was release a Dolphin machine...