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my name is crazy buttocks on a train, and a birdie tol me (Xenon specs leaked)

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IJoel

Member
kpop100 said:
And I'm sure those cheaper manufacturing costs will trickle down to the consumer right ;)

No next gen media, no sale for me. I'm one of those people that uses their PS2 for watching DVD movies, so I'll want the PS3 for games and BR movie playback.

It's somewhat different with the DVD, as it was pretty somewhat established when the PS2 arrived, and it only helped cement its position. BluRay won't be established, or the market for it will be just starting up when the PS3 is launched. Same case for the HD-DVD.

The fact that manufacturing facilities for BRD are supposedly more expensive than current DVD existing ones won't help the adoption for game media.

I wish Xbox 2 would adopt the HD-DVD format. It's disappointing they're skimping on this as it's inevitable we'll see a jump to high definition media in the next few years. And of course, owning both the PS3 and Xbox 2 would give me players for both formats. :p
 
rastex said:
Uh... other than HD, memory, BC support, and CPU speed what else is there to determine the strength of the console? I mean those are the very issues people are debating right now, and nobody knows what the final specs will be.


Well I'm not one to stop them from debating, but I would say that Element would probably agree that MS has a pretty close to final idea for Xenon specs.
 

Pug

Member
Ijoel, the jump to HD will be much slower than you think. In fact in Europe there no HD transmissions at the moment and the only HDTV's you can buy are high end jobs, which are pretty useless at the moment. Putting HD in standard makes little sense world wide especailly as its a cost burden, it does seem more applicable to the US, where the option maybe pushed harder. Also I reckon its more important for MS to get something special out of ATI in term of it Next GEN GPU than what optical storage its going to use. I wonder what ATI can deliver?
 

Fantasmo

Member
So they're all Live Aware eh?

I've got a good question. Since they'll all be aware, does this mean they'll nix the fucking XBOX LIVE logo on the front of the game if it's Aware-only?

Fucking scam artists.
 
IJoel said:
Huh?

*scratches head*

Probably 99% of all HDTV sets support 1080i natively.


No, 99% of all HDTV sets downsample 1080i signal to 540p native capable display. The only set's that can "natively display 1080i" are those that can do 1080p natively as well.

Basically, you've been living a lie, Neo.
 

koam

Member
is that 7gb for a dual layered dvd, or 7gb for the dvd and it can be dual layered (so a bit under 14)?
 

OmniGamer

Member
koam said:
is that 7gb for a dual layered dvd, or 7gb for the dvd and it can be dual layered (so a bit under 14)?

That's what I was wondering...a 7GB per layer proprietary disk would make more sense than a proprietary format that's less space than old and cheap standard dual layer DVD.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
what's amazing is that one of the best looking and best playing games comes on two 1.5 gig disks.... (IMO of course ;) )

Personally, I expect the vast majority of PS3 games to come on DVD for a good year or so regardless, but at least it has the possibility to expand and i'm sure Sony will be hyping that advantage up.

ps. What happens in other countries for new format tax?
 

shpankey

not an idiot
chespace said:
Having an optional HDD might not be so bad for those who aren't on Xbox Live and could care less about downloadable content -- these folks could get Xenon for cheaper. And how many of us really rip our own soundtracks for games anyways?
yes but there is a problem with it though... when you split the user base, then you have issues with developers being able to take advantage of the HDD. for instance, Bungie used the HDD to stream the level in as the game progressed, and this in turn allowed them to not have any loading (or at least very very little). but when you have some users who won't have a HDD, then the developer simply can't code their game to do that. because it wouldn't work on half the systems out there.

that's why it's so very important that it is built in on every system. a HDD is critical in my opinion. and MSFT not putting one into every system is a huge mistake and mark my words, will bite them in the ass.



briefcasemanx said:
how are "they" taracking your IP?
:lol



border said:
Maybe 1 GB flash memory installed into the system by default.....and an external HD for people that want more space?
not a bad idea, i could live with this.



P.S. crazy buttocks on a train, how are you tied in with MSFT or how did you come across this info? what are your credentials and why should we believe this? I'm not doubting you, just curious who you are and where you kick it.
 

doncale

Banned
crazy buttocks on a train said:
Xenon facts from the big hi roller game meets last week

-- ALL TITLES must be live aware
-- movie playback? WM9-based
-- built in mp3/wma player
-- 7gigbyte dvd with dual layers
-- xbox 2 hd is gonna be optional {uh oh}

this post is sponnsored by my buttocks n


*YAWN*

next time find something interesting man
 

Che

Banned
Duckhuntdog said:
Going off the papers I saw, backwards comp is somewhat up in the air, but with a strong lean towards no. Specs finalized is a yes, the casing was finalized about a week ago. HD appears to be optional, the money is in the memory cards, kids.

Thanks man. That sucks, at least I hope they decide to put BC in the end. I can't understand, can't they see they're doing it all wrong? Or have they become that stingy with Xbox2?

koam said:
is that 7gb for a dual layered dvd, or 7gb for the dvd and it can be dual layered (so a bit under 14)?

Can someone answer this? And in case it's 7GB single layer will it be able for sure to have double layered disks or it's just an assumption?
 
shpankey said:
that's why it's so very important that it is built in on every system. a HDD is critical in my opinion. and MSFT not putting one into every system is a huge mistake and mark my words, will bite them in the ass.


I agree. But my opinion is that they could still deliver the same functionality (gamesaves and game-data caching) without an hard disk: they simply shoud add to Xenon some form of solid state mass storage, no so big to allow content downloads from Live but great enough for saving games data (in a limited size partition, maybe) and games caching purposes. And I really think this is the way they'll go if they will make HD an optional.
 

pilonv1

Member
crazy buttocks on a train said:
mmm cuple more things

-- 5.1 sound, 720p, Pal 60, 16:9 ratio - standard suport for all Xenon titles. ALL of them must have this suport. Well the pal stuff is euroland only, but we're smart enoguht to figure that out heh

These are all awesome minimum specs, especially PAL 60. Bit worried about the disc size, but I guess 2 or 3 disc games may become the norm.
 
ThirdEye said:
Does it mean a Steam-like counter-piracy feature for all games?
Nope. Live Aware simply means that if you've got Xbox Live, you can log in the service and watch your friends list, receive invites and exchange messages even in not-online games.
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Some of this info has already been mentioned in interviews and the rest just seems like safe guesses. Especially considering the leaked specs and various developer comments.
 

shpankey

not an idiot
Borys said:
I just pray to the mighty Gods of gaming than Xenon WON'T be ever the lead SKU for any title. EVER. It would hurt not only PC gaming (like the rumours about Call of Duty 2 being a Xenon first title) but PS3 gaming as well (PS3 storage medium = 25 GB = massive textures and worlds, Xenon's medium = laughable 7 GB, the same as GTA:SA?!?!?!?).

Develop games for PS3/ PC and dumb them down (GFX, SFX, etc.) to Xenon.

PLEASE!

I'm buying PS3 and I don't want to have a f*cking port of a inferior Xenon title for Chrissake.
welcome to this generation backwards!

Us Xbox and GameCube owners have had to continually suffer the PS2. It has fucking sucked.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with BC because the ATI GPU can't emulate or mimic the Nvidia Xbox GPU? If that's the case, why not build something like the SMS adapter the Genesis had?

Just put a shell around around the old Xbox GPU and plug it into an expansion port. Sure it's not as good as having it out of the box, but it is better than nothing. Might be an attrative add-on if they can sell it for around 20 bucks.
 

Poona

Member
Pudding Tame said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with BC because the ATI GPU can't emulate or mimic the Nvidia Xbox GPU? If that's the case, why not build something like the SMS adapter the Genesis had?

Just put a shell around around the old Xbox GPU and plug it into an expansion port. Sure it's not as good as having it out of the box, but it is better than nothing. Might be an attrative add-on if they can sell it for around 20 bucks.

Exactly!

It doesn't need to be backwards compatible out of the box, if they release it as an add-on or somehow part of the Hard drive, that would be just fine with me.
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Poona said:
It doesn't need to be backwards compatible out of the box, if they release it as an add-on or somehow part of the Hard drive, that would be just fine with me.
M$ isn't going to take a hit on an add-on so you'd have to pay more for an Xbox add-on than you do for a normal system.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Pudding Tame said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with BC because the ATI GPU can't emulate or mimic the Nvidia Xbox GPU? If that's the case, why not build something like the SMS adapter the Genesis had?

Just put a shell around around the old Xbox GPU and plug it into an expansion port. Sure it's not as good as having it out of the box, but it is better than nothing. Might be an attrative add-on if they can sell it for around 20 bucks.
Such a thing (Intel CPU + Nvidia GPU) would cost much more than 20 bucks. They would also need to have an "alternative" wiring on the main motherboard just for this. And of course I'm not really sure Nvidia would agree to this any more than they will/would agree to document all of their GPU function calls so it can be emulated properly.
I don't think Nvidia and MS relationship concerning the Xbox GPU are good, especially since Nvidia now works for Sony. Why would they agree to anything to help MS sell Xbox 2?
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
DCharlie said:
what's amazing is that one of the best looking and best playing games comes on two 1.5 gig disks.... (IMO of course ;) )
Very true.

If the PS3 is the lead platform, Xenon ports (assuming it uses standard DVD or something like it) might be a little difficult in cases where the game occupies a Blu-Ray disc, but I don't think it's going to hobble the platform quite as badly as some here are suggesting.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
segasonic said:
There's many current Xbox games without 16:9 support and a few without PAL60 as well
PAL60 was a requirement for certification, as was progressive support. But it seems some publishers managed to have their games released without these. Mostly EA, how surprising.
 

The End

Member
Blimblim said:
Such a thing (Intel CPU + Nvidia GPU) would cost much more than 20 bucks. They would also need to have an "alternative" wiring on the main motherboard just for this. And of course I'm not really sure Nvidia would agree to this any more than they will/would agree to document all of their GPU function calls so it can be emulated properly.
I don't think Nvidia and MS relationship concerning the Xbox GPU are good, especially since Nvidia now works for Sony. Why would they agree to anything to help MS sell Xbox 2?


blim pretty much nailed it.

unless MS can get a clean-room Xbox emulator running on Xenon, BC is a no-go.
 
Crazy buttocks has been sourced!
:lol :lol

http://www.gamefront.de

Further specifications of the Xbox 2 admits?

08.02.05 - Here some further specifications are to the Xbox 2 (xenon), which was communicated on a meeting in the last week (thanks on crazy buttocks on A train):

- all plays must support Live Aware.
- filmwiedergabe is based on WM9
- installed MP3/WMA Player
- 7 GB DVD with dual Layers
- Xbox 2 non removable disk is optional

The particulars were not officially confirmed by Microsoft yet. Since ' crazy buttocks on A supplied train ' so far however always correct information, the probability is high that they are correct also this time.
 
Blimblim said:
Such a thing (Intel CPU + Nvidia GPU) would cost much more than 20 bucks. They would also need to have an "alternative" wiring on the main motherboard just for this. And of course I'm not really sure Nvidia would agree to this any more than they will/would agree to document all of their GPU function calls so it can be emulated properly.
I don't think Nvidia and MS relationship concerning the Xbox GPU are good, especially since Nvidia now works for Sony. Why would they agree to anything to help MS sell Xbox 2?

Thanks for the explanation Blim, I'm a layman when it comes to this stuff, it just seemed like a SMS type adapter would have made sense. I'll take your word on the technical part of what you said. But as for the business part as I highlighted, is Nvidia exclusive to Sony now for console hardware? ATI is working right now for MS and Nintendo, anything that helps Nvidia make money would be worth their time to listen.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Pudding Tame said:
Thanks for the explanation Blim, I'm a layman when it comes to this stuff, it just seemed like a SMS type adapter would have made sense. I'll take your word on the technical part of what you said. But as for the business part as I highlighted, is Nvidia exclusive to Sony now for console hardware? ATI is working right now for MS and Nintendo, anything that helps Nvidia make money would be worth their time to listen.
Yeah Nvidia *could* agree to this if MS gives them enough money for licensing. But would it be really worth it for MS ?
 

DCX

DCX
chespace said:
Having an optional HDD might not be so bad for those who aren't on Xbox Live and could care less about downloadable content -- these folks could get Xenon for cheaper. And how many of us really rip our own soundtracks for games anyways?
I do, i have Soundtracks for alot of my games and i take great pride in selecting the songs that best reflect the game's attitude...and i try not to use the same song twice :)

DCX
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
Pudding Tame said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with BC because the ATI GPU can't emulate or mimic the Nvidia Xbox GPU? If that's the case, why not build something like the SMS adapter the Genesis had?

Just put a shell around around the old Xbox GPU and plug it into an expansion port. Sure it's not as good as having it out of the box, but it is better than nothing. Might be an attrative add-on if they can sell it for around 20 bucks.

The problem isn't technical. The problem is that MS currently lets NVidia manufacture the GPU for the xbox and pays them a license fee for each unit. Therefore, they would once again have to license the GPU (because the technology is owned by NVidia) to include it's functionality in the xbox 2, which would add additional (some might claim unnecessary) cost to each unit
 
Blimblim said:
Yeah Nvidia *could* agree to this if MS gives them enough money for licensing. But would it be really worth it for MS ?

Well, If they could re-negotiate and get a good price from Nvidia and are able to sell the adapter for less than the price of a game. Expanding the library of games you could play on XB2 by the hundreds (using PS2 logic) might be worth it.

Oh, well enough dreaming for one night. Thanks Blim, Neverar.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Pudding Tame said:
Well, If they could get a good price from Nvidia and are able to sell the adapter for less than the price of a game. Expanding the library of games you could play on XB2 by the hundreds (using PS2 logic) might be worth it.
An adapter seems quite out of the question. Technically it would be very hard to create such a thing as the Xbox and Xenon architecture should be widly different. It was not so the case during the master system->genesis time.
They could have a simple SKU with only the minimum to play Xenon games, and an advances SKU with the hard drive and backward compatibility.
But once again, the problem is not really technical. If they get Nvidia to agree with all this, they'd have a much better time doing emulation.
 

jedimike

Member
First off, if MS decided to make a hard drive an add-on item, it wouldn't be any different for developers. MS will have a sizeable scratchpad for developers to use as a page file. The only thing developers would have to do differently is allow for custom soundtracks. Since most developers have already been doing this, it shouldn't be an issue. XNA tools will hopefully make things plain and simple for devs.

The way MS is talking... I fully expect a hard drive to be useless. I expect that they will have a front end that you load onto your PC and from there you can stream music from your PC to your Xbox 360 and you'll also be able to save games from your 360 back to your PC.

The problem isn't technical. The problem is that MS currently lets NVidia manufacture the GPU for the xbox and pays them a license fee for each unit. Therefore, they would once again have to license the GPU (because the technology is owned by NVidia) to include it's functionality in the xbox 2, which would add additional (some might claim unnecessary) cost to each unit

This is where the idea of multiple Xbox 360 sku's comes into play. MS could pass the cost of the Nvidia license onto consumers by offering a higher-end unit (I'll call it the Xbox 540) to consumers with some extra goodies for more money.

Ultimately, I think we'll see a Xbox 900 - yep, you heard it here first. A full 2 and a half rotations. This bitch will sing and dance if you're willing to fork out the cash for it.
 
jedimike said:
This is where the idea of multiple Xbox 360 sku's comes into play. MS could pass the cost of the Nvidia license onto consumers by offering a higher-end unit (I'll call it the Xbox 540) to consumers with some extra goodies for more money.

Ultimately, I think we'll see a Xbox 900 - yep, you heard it here first. A full 2 and a half rotations. This bitch will sing and dance if you're willing to fork out the cash for it.

If you're going to go with rotational numbers, you have to go 720 and 1080 for the skaters out there :D
 

AirBrian

Member
sonycowboy said:
If you're going to go with rotational numbers, you have to go 720 and 1080 for the skaters out there :D
Sorry, 1080 is already taken by Nintendo. :p

220132b.jpg
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
This is pretty believable news, everyone was aware that MS taking such a hit on hardware prices would be a one off to get their foot in the door, now it's down to the serious business, so all the bells and whistles are out the door. I would say im pissed about the no-dvd, and no HD, but really i don't give a shit as long as it has the games (which obviously remains to be seen).
 

Azih

Member
joshschw said:
They should use those USB memory sticks. those are cheap, right? and could easily be transferred onto a computer.
Then where would all the peripheral sales come from?
 
Azih said:
Then where would all the peripheral sales come from?

Nothing stopping the console manufacturers from making their own, and branding them around their games to increase sales. I would love to see USB drive support.
 

Justin Bailey

------ ------
I haven't really followed much going on with the xbox specs, but I uhhhh "stumbled" across this info today, is this news?

The new Xbox will use flash memory to store games and data instead of the current 8GB disc drive. It will also contain three IBM-designed 64 bit microprocessors, which will make it more powerful than most PCs currently available. The graphics chip will make the video game resolution equal to that of high-definition television. The new system will also have 256MB of dynamic RAM, compared to the current 64MB.
 

DrGAKMAN

Banned
Okay...

I used to think the next X-BOX would just totally bomb without a next generation disc format, nor BC or a HD...but now, I dunno. I think American's are just dumb. Nothing against people who bought an X-BOX at all...I just think that even with these three major brick walls the X-BOX bandwagon won't lose much momentum 'cos MS has already made a name for themselves in videogames and (mostly stupid American pride) people are going to get the next X-BOX regardless due to the whole Americaness of it. It'll be "big" and "bad" and "powerful" just like the first X-BOX in people's minds even if that's totally not the case. I used to think that headstart was going to kill thier next generation system as well...but again, I dunno anymore. I think this whole "made in the U.S.A." crap & the almighty MS name is really gonna be a factor. Sony (despite being "cooler" than Nintendo) is still going to be seen as Japanese, too Japanese for some American's. Sorta sickens me.

Having different models of the next X-BOX is actually pretty cool though. But hopefully they don't run things into the ground with the approach and take the industry down with them. The last time the market was flooded with too many systems was when we had the "crash". Having a bare-bones games only machine is great though as it get's the system out there at more affordable prices so more people can get it which can be a factor in multi-console owners. Plus this is good for people who don't want bells'n'wistles. For people who want more they can get it. Maybe MS (by not going with a next generation disc format) is wise in forseeing that people will be happy with DVD despite HD-DVD & BR...and by staying out of (what may be) a pointless tech. war they save grief and money. But what if the disc capacity will matter? What about BR being faster than DVD too? There are risks, but with coming out earlier and sticking with a cheap tried'n'true format like DVD they may give themselves the headstart and userbase they need to make those factors a non-issue. To add, MS may have the edge in the licencing department 'cos of sticking with DVD too as it'll be the cheaper format than the competition...plus with only a DVD drive the money saved there could be spent to beef up other specs? Plus with the theory of releasing an "X-BOX 540" or "X-BOX 900" they may help themselves to lose the stigma of being "less powerful" than PS3 by giving options the PS3 won't have. For instance, PS3 may play this new fangled BR format while "X-BOX 360" only plays DVD's...BUT..."X-BOX 540" will play AND record DVD's or have TiVo functions and all that jazz and I think people will see that as the better system or at least the better value.

The whole no HD & no BC issues are still there, but that's not to say they couldn't be offered in some other way. Maybe by getting an "X-BOX 540" or "X-BOX 900" or getting an add-on HD/BC deal...as I think alot of the first X-BOX games would require a HD anyways. I know there's problems with making such an add-on cheap (due to Intel/nVidea), but there was a company that suggested they could help MS emulate the first X-BOX using the next X-BOX's power and thier special software or something? I dunno about all that, but anything's possible I guess? Someone suggested that (for those who want custom soundtracks or other HD features) that they could link the next X-BOX to thier PC's HD. But would doing this require some new MS software probably?

I still think that the next X-BOX is coming too soon, is taking away features and sorta gipping thier fans and that any kind of "momentum" they have will meet with the brick walls of having no HD, no BC, no next generation disc format and losing thier biggest selling point (by being less powerful) this time around. But...I still see the masses gobbling it up and I feel MS has sorta forced themselves to do this in order to make thier plans work and in order for them to start turning thier mindshare and marketshare into something profitable.
 

Phoenix

Member
DrGAKMAN said:
Okay...

I used to think the next X-BOX would just totally bomb without a next generation disc format, nor BC or a HD...but now, I dunno. I think American's are just dumb. ... people are going to get the next X-BOX regardless due to the whole Americaness of it.

Come on dude, that's just silly. You're saying that people who own XBoxes and buy games on them and pay for XBox live are doing so because of some American pride? That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard! Xbox appealed to the graphics whore in me and it was a system that (eventually) was moddable to serve as more than a console. That's why I picked it up and I'm sure that will be a significant percentage of the people who purchased them.

Hell if there was that much American pride, American car makers wouldn't be doing so poorly right now.
 

element

Member
Rhindle said:
Except you don't, because Microsoft is still months away from locking them down.
Probably things like the final clock speed haven't been locked down, but majority of the hardware (what is going to be in the box) is locked down.
 
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