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[Vark]

Like it or not, your dollars aren't worth shit to Sony, MS or Nintendo. A couple of hundred whiney people on a message board mean absolutely nothing to the millions of customers that make up the 'mainstream'. That's who the market is catered to, and thats who the market is being made for.

The sooner you realize that the more sense it'll make.

 

[Joe]

i'd say the n64 and gamecube did pretty good with "lesser" formats. if the gamecube had an xbox live clone and MS's third party support the gamecube would have done a lot better.

 

[rastex]

But, but, but.......

"THE MAINSTREAM!!!!!!!!!"

You don't want to confuse them!!! They'll **** you UP!!! REAL GOOD

Don't be so obtuse, you and Kaching both know very well the far reaching implications that confusing the mainstream would bring. Confusion->abandonment->dead medium->a lot of tech companies taking some major losses->less investment in new tech. By confusing the mainstream the HD and BR groups are just shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Mainstream consumers want recordable DVD's at this point...not an all new HD format (let alone two competing formats). Initially BRD (now BR) and AOD (now HD-DVD) were going to focus on not only delivering higher def. content but ALSO give consumers the ability to have a recordable format. Now that's sorta in limbo 'cos of cost issues and the fact that there's two formats competing...all the while DVD recorders will go down in price and become more attractive to mainstream consumers. To me HD-DVD & BR are becoming more and more stop-gap regardless of BR being in PS3!

Yes HD-DVD & BR offer more than DVD: higher def., higher capacity, faster speeds...all good for gaming as well. HOWEVER, it comes at a price. I used to think that Xenon not having a next generation disc format would kill MS's chances next generation, but that was the ever-hopeful Nintendo fanboy inside of me. Looking at it from a business sense AND a realistic sense, I think it might've been wise for MS to stick with DVD. Why? The format and the drives that play them are standerd and CHEAP, that money saved can be spent on things more benificial to Xenon. Also MS stays out of the whole DVD vs HD-DVD vs BR "war" which saves them and their consumers the headaches of choosing the wrong format/platform due to doubt.

Xenon will have the MS name to keep the momentum going and it'll have a solid headstart giving the system a nice userbase to work with so publishers won't ignore it *just* 'cos it uses DVD as oppossed to a next generation format. Most likely PS3 games at launch will be on DVD as well so maybe BR won't even be a factor until later into next generation, but by then I'm sure people will already be talking about the next next generation of gaming as well as the next next generation format.

In all liklihood, the next Nintendo system could be DVD based (dual layered, mini, double sided and/or encased DVD, whatever) even so it's not like publishers are going to ditch MS *and* Nintendo completly just 'cos PS3 has BR. Maybe if BR was hitting a stride in being more than a stop-gap NOW and be a selling point for PS3 (like DVD was for PS2) than *maybe* it would be a factor, but that isn't the case.

 

[Azih]

Hah. If you guys hadn't been unable to counter my arguments I wouldn't have brought them up time and again. And since you obviously can't (what with resorting to 'witty' responses) I'll just bow out of the thread and pat myself on the back for a point well made.

 

[sonycowboy]

Don't be so obtuse, you and Kaching both know very well the far reaching implications that confusing the mainstream would bring. Confusion->abandonment->dead medium->a lot of tech companies taking some major losses->less investment in new tech. By confusing the mainstream the HD and BR groups are just shooting themselves in the foot.

But, it's just so tiresome. You can make the absolute same argument (or family of arguments) for every new technology ever introduced. We've seen it since the beginning of time. I'm not bothering to "counter" it as Azih is so proud of saying, because it's a pitiful argument. It will take years for Blu-Ray to take hold, but that doesn't mean you don't introduce it.

USB vs PS/2
DVD vs CD
CD vs Cassette
DVD vs VHS
3 1/2 floppy vs 5 1/4 floppy
Windows vs DOS


You don't stop moving tech forward because some people "might" be stuck in the past.

 

[Azih]

*****
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying don't do it NOW.
*****

Note: Stuff between ***s is stuff I've already said and am merely copying and pasting because really... read.

 

[Blimblim]

USB vs PS/2
DVD vs CD
CD vs Cassette
DVD vs VHS
3 1/2 floppy vs 5 1/4 floppy
Windows vs DOS

You don't stop moving tech forward because some people "might" be stuck in the past.

Notice that all these "revolutions" all took way more than 5 years to become a reality (except maybe the floppy disk one). How long has PS2 been around ? How many DOS versions ? How long have we been stuck with VHS ? Why didn't Minidisc become a success when it had so many advantages over the 20 years old cassette ? Why didn't people go for laserdisc instead of buying VHS (ok I admit this one may be a bad example) ? Because they simply did not care enough for the new technology and were perfectly happy with what they had.
People just bought their whole movie collection on DVD and are perfectly happy with it. They are definitely not ready to go forward to a new format they won't understand the benefit. Will they see any benefit in buying a BRD or HD-DVD player ? Especially when you have 2 formats competing against each other ? I sincerely doubt it.
Like someone else, I think the mainstream now would love to dump their VHS recorder to the trash and want a good alternative. If BRD or HD-DVD were recordable from day one, then yes there would be something that would definitely appeal everyone. If it's yet another read only media, not a chance it will become the next DVD.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Uh-oh, looks like Xbot's damage control has already begun...

No need for BR or HD-DVD ?
PS3 "too powerful" ?

Says who? The same guys that bought Xbox because it was more powerful than PS2?

Can't believe what I'm reading, how things change...

and the same people that said nintendo was doomed for not supporting dvd's .. "but you can disk swap!!," said the ndrones.

 

[kaching]

Don't be so obtuse, you and Kaching both know very well the far reaching implications that confusing the mainstream would bring. Confusion->abandonment->dead medium->a lot of tech companies taking some major losses->less investment in new tech. By confusing the mainstream the HD and BR groups are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Ah, the power of the Mainstream. Now they're revising history and exaggerating the severity of the consequences of risks taken by companies.

Beta vs. VHS being one of the oft-cited format battles of our time, lost by Sony yet they went on to continue to regularly invest in multiple new technologies and formats, some of which have also not been successful. And yet they continue to invest in new tech., heavily. Meanwhile, VHS thrived. So "confusing the mainstream" neither led to a reduction of tech investment nor a total abandonment of all forms of a medium.

You can find plenty of examples of competing formats in today's tech market. Cellphone service, flash media, GAME CONSOLES!!! Etc. Why is that members of this forum like yourselves seem to spend more time concerned about a two-way competition over next-gen optical media tech. yet seem largely unphased by a three-way competition among console game formats?

Hah. If you guys hadn't been unable to counter my arguments I wouldn't have brought them up time and again. And since you obviously can't (what with resorting to 'witty' responses) I'll just bow out of the thread and pat myself on the back for a point well made.

The only thing you're supporting with in first place is your psychic link to the mainstream, hence the direction this discussion has taken.

 

[Lord Error]

Will someone please think OF THE MAINSTREAM!

 

[Azih]

The only thing you're supporting with in first place is your psychic link to the mainstream, hence the direction this discussion has taken.

I gave my views and my reasons, neither you or scowboy have disputed my reasons before resorting to dismal attempts at humour. Scowboy started talking about DVD-ROM computer technology instead of consumer electronics and you started blathering about recordable DVDs and how some people want higher capacity media. Neither of you has addressed the problems faced by fragmenting the market and confusing the customer. That combined with the fact that there's at least 3 other posters making their own arguments against BR/HD and you both are ignoring them as well makes me very satisified with the way this discussion has turned out.

 

[rastex]

Here's a pretty good article talking about all of this

Notice what he says about RCA when they lost a format war to Lazerdisc, they ceased to be an independent company, I'd say that's quite the loss. The other thing that none of us are considering are the other Hi-Def formats that are being developed by chinese manufacturers, that's a whole wildcard right there.

What will probably end up happening if HD-DVD and BR both get equal support from Hollywood, is that most players will probably end up playing both formats, like what happened with + and - for DVD. And considering the nature of the whole format wars having Blu-Ray in PS3 is going to be FAR less of a marketable point than DVD was in PS2. Of course there's the possibility that the Playstation brand is so strong, and PS3 so hot and that consumers will want PS3 so badly that the thing will sell a ridiculous number of units and BR will become the defacto standard. I'm sure that's the best case scenario for Sony. Before Xbox came into the picture I'd say that's a pretty good possibility of happening. But with Xbox's latest success in the marketplace and a huge increase in exposure to the masses, I think Xenon could put a large dent in Sony's plans which could REALLY hurt them badly.

 

[Phoenix]

Don't be so obtuse, you and Kaching both know very well the far reaching implications that confusing the mainstream would bring. Confusion->abandonment->dead medium->a lot of tech companies taking some major losses->less investment in new tech. By confusing the mainstream the HD and BR groups are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Lets not try and overreach here. In the battle for standards there is almost always initially 2 or more players fighting to become the standard. The people who end up losing are most often the early adopters. The same battle is currently taking place between DVD-Audio and SuperAudio CD. There are standards battles going on all the time. Eventually one of them gets market acceptance and the other one either goes away (if the media are incompatible) or the technology is such that one player can handle both and there is a dual format player.

A big issue here is whether or not the media are compatible such that it is economical to build a player that can handle both formats. My current understanding of both technologies suggests that today it isn't possible to build a cheap system that can play both so one of them has to be defeated in the marketplace before the industry can move on.

 

[Blimblim]

Lets not try and overreach here. In the battle for standards there is almost always initially 2 or more players fighting to become the standard. The people who end up losing are most often the early adopters. The same battle is currently taking place between DVD-Audio and SuperAudio CD. There are standards battles going on all the time. Eventually one of them gets market acceptance and the other one either goes away (if the media are incompatible) or the technology is such that one player can handle both and there is a dual format player.

Do you really think there will be a "market acceptance" for DVD-Audio ou SACD ? These are even worse examples than BRD vs HD-DVD in term of niche markets. Who cares about High Bitrate/High Definition/True surround encoded music except audiophiles/technophiles ? I have a DVD audio/SACD compatible player and the whole audio setup to go with it. When I play some true DVD audio content as demo , almost no one can tell the difference with the usual PCM track playing in pro-logic mode.

 

[Phoenix]

Do you really think there will be a "market acceptance" for DVD-Audio ou SACD ? These are even worse examples than BRD vs HD-DVD in term of niche markets. Who cares about High Bitrate/High Definition/True surround encoded music except audiophiles/technophiles ? I have a DVD audio/SACD compatible player and the whole audio setup to go with it. When I play some true DVD audio content as demo , almost no one can tell the difference with the usual PCM track playing in pro-logic mode.

This is one of those cases where the mediums are both readable by current format players so they may both live on (though I really wish one of them would just die so we could move on). My understanding of the technology that drives BRD and HD-DVD leads me to believe that at the technology/laser/algo level there may be some issues building a player that can handle both (without giving up some pieces of each format).

 

[kaching]

I gave my views and my reasons, neither you or scowboy have disputed my reasons before resorting to dismal attempts at humour.

I'm sorry that my attempts at humor have fallen flat with you [/Sarcasm], however I most certainly have disputed your reasons in addition to the sarcastic jabs. Meanwhile you've done little but lean on the mainstream as a crutch. You're advocating for us to wait till the mainstream is "ready" but the mainstream has never been the ones to adopt a new technology from its initial availability, unless you can cite for me a situation where the tens of millions of owners of an existing tech/format upgraded to the next-gen tech/format in *short order* (a year or less from launch of the new tech). Otherwise, that's not what I call ready. There's no magical moment when the majority of the mainstream is suddenly ready for new tech. They always have to be convinced.

Neither of you has addressed the problems faced by fragmenting the market and confusing the customer.

The VERY SAME post of mine that you are responding to with this comment has several counterpoints to the claim that fragmenting the market does nothing but throw the customer into paralyzing confusion that condemns everyone.

That combined with the fact that there's at least 3 other posters making their own arguments against BR/HD and you both are ignoring them as well makes me very satisified with the way this discussion has turned out.

So Sorry, I'm just one man, posting way more on this forum than he really has time to in the first place. Either that or maybe I don't necessarily disagree with them or think their arguments are anywhere near as disingenuous as yours.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm sorry that my attempts at humor have fallen flat with you [/Sarcasm], however I most certainly have disputed your reasons in addition to the sarcastic jabs. Meanwhile you've done little but lean on the mainstream as a crutch. You're advocating for us to wait till the mainstream is "ready" but the mainstream has never been the ones to adopt a new technology from its initial availability, unless you can cite for me a situation where the tens of millions of owners of an existing tech/format upgraded to the next-gen tech/format in *short order* (a year or less from launch of the new tech). Otherwise, that's not what I call ready. There's no magical moment when the majority of the mainstream is suddenly ready for new tech. They always have to be convinced.

To be fair, the DVD standard instance is one where the mainstream was 'ready' (VHS has long since outlived its usefulness and everyone from consumers to studios wanted to get rid of it) and a single solution existed (or I should say had been made to exist) permitting consumers to flock to it in droves creating the best selling consumer electronics technology in history. HD DVD standards, however, don't meet any pressing needs of consumers but instead are more favorable for studios looking primarily at copy protection mechanisms of the new format so even if there were just one standard, it is highly questionable if consumers would suddenly flock to it.

It is my view that the PS3 will do for BRD what DVD did for the PS2. Consumers will have a BR player and will be willing to test/experiment with BR content but have no compelling reason to purchase a HD DVD player. While this doesn't mean that HD-DVD is doomed (the market is a fickle place), it does suggest that their hurdle will be much larger than that of BR. Studios supporting BR can pretty much count on 10s of millions of BRD players in the world. The prospects for HD-DVD players depends entirely on consumers actively wanting the technology. As such BRD is the more likely winner of the HD-DVD format battle unless HD-DVD players start off really cheap... like as cheap as regular DVD players. If the price point for an HD-DVD player is equivalent to a PS3 (and history suggests that it is), people who want HD style DVD content are more likely to purchase a device with multiple purposes (PS3) at the same price.

That's my reasoning anyways, and I've yet to run across ANY reasoning for HD-DVD that gives it a competitive advantage or even equal footing with BRD.

 

[kaching]

Notice what he says about RCA when they lost a format war to Lazerdisc, they ceased to be an independent company, I'd say that's quite the loss.

Great, you continue to focus on one example (Laserdisc), when there are several others that have been cited which haven't lead to such losses in the same destructive fashion. And, counterbalancing the comment about RCA in the same article:

"Format wars are nothing new. They’ve been going on since Thomas Edison’s cylinder phonograph lost out to Alexander Graham Bell’s flat disc—the forerunner of today’s many flat disc formats."

and

"Meanwhile, Sony lost none of its zest for developing new formats. Its MiniDisc more or less won over Philips’ Digital Compact Cassette during the 1990s. Both used early versions of compressed digital audio. DCC was backward-compatible with the analog cassette format, but the MiniDisc was cooler and more mechanically reliable, and became popular in Japan. In the States both were eclipsed by the nascent CD-R."



You guys are basically arguing against the nature of the industry, and you're not even doing it consistently.

 

[Vortac]

You know, Sony is pushing hard to get some sort of hand hold on not just electronics but money associated with electronics. They want royalties. They want streaming services. They want money per month, per user.

While they do have awesome engineers working there and make some pretty cool stuff, don’t kid yourself thinking they don’t have a bunch of bald yet fierce Tokyo University grads (that would make Yamauchi look like a chump) in a corporate lobby somewhere directing them to push so hard on UMD and Blu Ray and just as Nintendo went for cartridges they are doing their own thing but with the monetary backup and corporate maneuvering that Nintendo could only ever dream of.

Japanese companies are as ruthless as Microsoft ever was, and if you paid a hint of attention to what goes on inside the Japanese marketplace you wouldn’t want a company like Sony having more than a 50% marketshare/influence if anything in the world. It’s a good balance, Sony vs Microsoft. Two evils balance each other out. I think we’ll see them fight to have a dominant marketshare but neither will.

Sony is all about Sony. Sony doesn’t care about you, the gamer. They want your money. They are not some sort of bastion of all that is good with scientific advancement and technology, and neither is Microsoft.

Which company is producing the product which will allow game developers to make the best games, in a way that is cost effective enough to keep third parties alive and not be gobbled up by EA should be your main concern.

 

[Azih]

What the hey? You're making it seem like I'm saying that there's no good time to move away from DVD when my whole point is that it's too early to do so.

Are you really saying that timing doesn't count for shit in introducting a new format to the market? Because I've given reasons why it would be far better to hold off for a few years (there's another thing I keep on repeating ad nauseum that you ignore HOLD OFF A FEW YEARS) before moving away from a format that is really well accepted and is just hitting its stride. And *THAT* is what you haven't addressed at all.

And hell we've mentioned way more then just Lazerdisc as examples of failed format launches. Go back and read again.

 

[Che]

Haha this is pathetic. The xbots are trying to convince others and themselves that DVD is the best choice while BR is too early and other crap. But nothing more technologically advanced is too early for consoles (always speaking about gaming and gaming only) since every new gen of consoles is not a continuation of the previous ones, thus they don't need to be compatible or anything to keep the old format, like PCs do. And the worst is that some of you guys have taken the bait (yes I'm talking about you sonycowboy) and you're discussing about movie studios, PC hardware and other meaningless stuff. My point is this: Main reason consoles exist is for games. And future games will need a lot of space for these next gen textures to look great (and a lot of other stuff too). End of story. And btw notice the irony. The same people who make fun of some PS2 and GC games because their textures are not that detailed and they're "hey it looks good... for PS2 that is -haha", are the same people who are trying now to degrade the whole matter.

 

[gollumsluvslave]

Main reason consoles exist is for games.

I agree totally.

I mentioned a few posts back about Final Fantasy VII coming on 4 Cds - it was THE game that drove Playstation sales, at least in the UK. Multiple discs doesn't discourage the consumer if the game is good/popular enough.

I think that *if* MS launch Xenon fall 2005, they cannot feasibly have an HD optical format. As many people on this board are wont to argue, MS still have to answer to shareholders etc... people can't castigate them for bleeding money on this Xbox, and then castigate them for trying to learn from their lessons for their next console, and *not* bleed money.

To be honest, i really don't give a shit what media next gen games come on as long as there are some great games to play.

I'll ask one question - what is your favourite game of this gen thus far?

I'll guarantee more than one person will say RE4, and rightly so.

Shit. Smallest media, and it comes on 2 discs. Damn.

 

[Joe]

i like the idea of single player on one disc and multiplayer on another disc for some games.

maybe there will be a 3 disc tray or something in the xbox? it'll be called 360 for its spinning tray.

 

[Redbeard]

Haha this is pathetic. The xbots are trying to convince others and themselves that DVD is the best choice while BR is too early and other crap. But nothing more technologically advanced is too early for consoles (always speaking about gaming and gaming only) since every new gen of consoles is not a continuation of the previous ones, thus they don't need to be compatible or anything to keep the old format, like PCs do. And the worst is that some of you guys have taken the bait (yes I'm talking about you sonycowboy) and you're discussing about movie studios, PC hardware and other meaningless stuff. My point is this: Main reason consoles exist is for games. And future games will need a lot of space for these next gen textures to look great (and a lot of other stuff too). End of story. And btw notice the irony. The same people who make fun of some PS2 and GC games because their textures are not that detailed and they're "hey it looks good... for PS2 that is -haha", are the same people who are trying now to degrade the whole matter.

Since when does the size of the media have anything to do with the texture quality of PS2 games?

Going by this logic the PS2 version of RE4 should have higher res textures than the GC version because it uses a larger-capacity disc.

 

[Che]

I agree totally.

I mentioned a few posts back about Final Fantasy VII coming on 4 Cds - it was THE game that drove Playstation sales, at least in the UK. Multiple discs doesn't discourage the consumer if the game is good/popular enough.

I think that *if* MS launch Xenon fall 2005, they cannot feasibly have an HD optical format. As many people on this board are wont to argue, MS still have to answer to shareholders etc... people can't castigate them for bleeding money on this Xbox, and then castigate them for trying to learn from their lessons for their next console, and *not* bleed money.

To be honest, i really don't give a shit what media next gen games come on as long as there are some great games to play.

I'll ask one question - what is your favourite game of this gen thus far?

I'll guarantee more than one person will say RE4, and rightly so.

Shit. Smallest media, and it comes on 2 discs. Damn.

Hehe this is also true. But you have to admit there a big amount of hypocricy in this thread. Before xbox was the ultimate console because of the things MS now is going to cut out, now suddenly the graphics don't matter that much the hdd isn't that important, BC -who cares etc. etc. This thread has been a giant unsuccesful damage control.

To tell you the truth for me the features mentioned aren't that important (although I still think that using DVDs is a setback) but I'm enjoying messing with these guys, watching them change opinions lightning fast, trying to cover the uncoverable.

 

[SantaC]

Since when does the size of the media have anything to do with the texture quality of PS2 games?

Going by this logic the PS2 version of RE4 should have higher res textures than the GC version because it uses a larger-capacity disc.

GC uses multi discs on RE4.

 

[Redbeard]

GC uses multi discs on RE4.

2 GC discs still don't equal one DVD.

 

[SantaC]

2 GC discs still don't equal one DVD.

yeah, but the logic isn't correct anyway. As you mentioned.

 

[Che]

Since when does the size of the media have anything to do with the texture quality of PS2 games?

Going by this logic the PS2 version of RE4 should have higher res textures than the GC version because it uses a larger-capacity disc.

edit: To make things clear: PS2 has "bad" textures because of low ram. GC because of low disc capacity. Xbox fans are making fun of both because the textures are bleh (we've heard this many many times). Now they're trying to degrade the fact that textures will be a problem on xbox2. Understand where I'm getting?

 

[XboxGamers]

I want backwards compatable!!1

 

[Redbeard]

No no you got me wrong. I said they're making fun of PS2's textures. I didn't say that the reason was the size. I wasn't emphasizing the size of the disc there but how xbox fans treat PS2 and GC. Read my last post.

Alright, but how is that relevant? Are you assuming that Xbox 2's textures are going to be made fun of because they have to be on DVDs or something?

 

[gollumsluvslave]

To be honest, i wouldn't be that surprised to see MS go proprietary next gen - Xbox games are far and away the most readily available via P2P channels, and DVD is in some way a cause of that.

There's no danger that the people making decisions on the next Xbox are not aware of how many games are quickly downloadable.

I also have a funny feeling that Xenon (or whatever it's gonna be called) will come with a direct rip off of XBMC (in true MS style) out of the box, and they'll trump it as a huge new thing. :lol

 

[Azih]

To be honest, i wouldn't be that surprised to see MS go proprietary next gen - Xbox games are far and away the most readily available via P2P channels, and DVD is in some way a cause of that.

There's no danger that the people making decisions on the next Xbox are not aware of how many games are quickly downloadable.

I also have a funny feeling that Xenon (or whatever it's gonna be called) will come with a direct rip off of XBMC (in true MS style) out of the box, and they'll trump it as a huge new thing. :lol

the Ps2 and the Xbox are both equally well pirated from what I've seen. It's just Xbox piracy is PC style while PS2 piracy is mostly Hong Kong style.

 

[kaching]

To be fair, the DVD standard instance is one where the mainstream was 'ready' (VHS has long since outlived its usefulness and everyone from consumers to studios wanted to get rid of it) and a single solution existed (or I should say had been made to exist) permitting consumers to flock to it in droves creating the best selling consumer electronics technology in history.

I think I am being fair, Phoenix. I'm not disputing the stellar success of the DVD format but I think suggesting that everyone from consumers to studios wanted to get rid of the VHS format when, 7-8 yrs after this decision was supposedly made by everyone, I can still buy VCRs at most B&M stores and online retailers and when I can still buy new movies releases on VHS, you're dramatically overstating what everyone was ready to do.

DVD uptake was certainly faster than either VHS or CD before it, but it still took about 1.5 yrs to sell a million players in the US, while VCR hardware sales went on to peak in 2000 (1), 3 yrs after everyone supposedly was ready to abandon it because of the release of DVD, and it wasn't until 2002 that DVD players finally outsold VCRs (2), 5 yrs after the DVD format was released. If that's the definition of the mainstream consumer being ready to abandon the old and flock to the new then I think my point stands.

* (1) & (2) are pulled from here - CEA's Digital America 2003 Publication

What the hey? You're making it seem like I'm saying that there's no good time to move away from DVD when my whole point is that it's too early to do so.

Are you really saying that timing doesn't count for shit in introducting a new format to the market? Because I've given reasons why it would be far better to hold off for a few years (there's another thing I keep on repeating ad nauseum that you ignore HOLD OFF A FEW YEARS) before moving away from a format that is really well accepted and is just hitting its stride. And *THAT* is what you haven't addressed at all.

What I'm saying is that you are relying too heavily on this very nebulous measure of "when the mainstream is ready". Of course timing counts but there are many factors BESIDES the mainstream that affect timing. The mainstream has yet to jump on any new tech/format within the first few years of its release, no matter how successful its gone on to become. So what exactly does waiting for the mainstream to be 'ready' amount to if it doesn't involve them driving the new tech/format sales in its first few years on the market anyway?

And hell we've mentioned way more then just Lazerdisc as examples of failed format launches. Go back and read again.

Err, the comments in that post were directed specifically at rastex who, since joining this particular tangent of the topic, has referenced nothing other than Laserdisc as an example of the dire consequences of fragmenting the market.

 

[Nerevar]

edit: To make things clear: PS2 has "bad" textures because of low ram. GC because of low disc capacity. Xbox fans are making fun of both because the textures are bleh (we've heard this many many times). Now they're trying to degrade the fact that textures will be a problem on xbox2. Understand where I'm getting?

I love how this debate has come full circle. The whole point of what I was saying earlier is that more RAM is much more important than a higher capacity media format. If Sony can provide a console equal to whatever MS does in every capacity PLUS offering Blu-Ray, I will buy it (hell,I'll buy it anyway). But in the grand scheme of things, there are much more important things to the performance of the system (and yes, that is what I'm concerned about - the best performing game machine so my games look and play the best).

PS - who's bitching about the textures on the GC version of RE4? I thought they were great.

 

[segasonic]

edit: To make things clear: PS2 has "bad" textures because of low ram. GC because of low disc capacity.

umm... no?!

 

[nib95]

OMG, this post was for the other thread lol.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Are you serious right now?

 

[MYE]

lool

 

[crazepharmacist]

lol

 

[Kincaido]

inb4lock

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Woah, had no idea he was doing this since 2005...damn, an entire generation ago...these posts seem so weird lol