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[Superayate]

Yes, of course, but we really shouldn’t be talking about “next gen”’gaming because consoles simply do not provide up to date hardware for such a thing to occur. That’s my argument.

Also, why is price such a big deal when talking about console vs. PC but it’s tossed aside when comparing console vs. console?

The xss pushed the price of gaming extremely low and it was crucified for it because it did so by using weaker hardware…

In fact, there were "next gen" compared to the previous one. They provide up to date hardware, for console. The error is to compare console vs PC, which is a little stupid due to the hardware "updates" that occur every one/two years, and the completly different price segment. In 2024, more than 3 years after the PS5/XsX launch, from pure gaming point of view, I don't think you can build a PC that is more powerfull than these hardwares for the lower/same price, which remains nice.

 

[shamoomoo]

I’m talking about strix halo. The subject of the thread.

No really. The RX 7800 GCD is 200mm square or a bit smaller than the current PS5 APU,if made made a 48/40 CU GPU, it would be a sub 200mm part minus MCMs.

 

[Senua]

I watch his videos regularly

 

[nosseman]

I cant understand why people have a hard time believing this could be possible.

AMD built the APU in the PS5 in 2019 based on Zen 2/RDNA 2 and the whole console (including storage, bluray etc) costed 500-600$.

Why shouldn't AMD be able to build a APU in 2024/2025 based on Zen 4 and RDNA 3/3,5/4 that has more power on both the CPU and GPU part?

The APU will probably cost 350-500$ (just for the APU) and then you need a motherboard, case, power supply, memory, ssd).

Why would an APU built in 2024 for $500 not beat a APU built in 2019 for $150-200?

 

[rodrigolfp]

I don't think you can build a PC that is more powerfull than these hardwares for the lower/same price, which remains nice.

This again? Why should we be able to build a PC more powerful or even with the same power for lower/same price if the PC can run so much more programs/games, peripherals, mods, etc?

 

[TheRedRiders]

Haha - can't stand him personally, but he has developers and programmers on his podcast every now and then, and there's plenty of nuggets in their if you're into the tech side of things.

 

[Superayate]

This again? Why should we be able to build a PC more powerful or even with the same power for lower/same price if the PC can run so much more programs/games, peripherals, mods, etc?

We are speaking about hardware cost... btw, why shouldn't we able ? The fact it can run "more programs/games, peripherals, mods" has nothing to do to with the hardware cost ?

 

[FireFly]

What I mean is how is 40 cu beefy if the XSX has 56?

The XSX GPU only runs at 1825 MHz. A 4nm version in a SFF PC is going to run at much higher clocks. Performance will depend on having enough memory bandwidth to feed it.

 

[rodrigolfp]

We are speaking about hardware cost... btw, why shouldn't we able ? The fact it can run "more programs/games, peripherals, mods" has nothing to do to with the hardware cost ?

Afaik, console manufacturers have "discounts" on their mass purchases of chips from AMD plus they subside the final cost of the console.

The XSX GPU only runs at 1825 MHz. A 4nm version in a SFF PC is going to run at much higher clocks. Performance will depend on having enough memory bandwidth to feed it.

The article is talking about the "power" of the APU alone, not performance of the entire system.

 

[Dorago]

The idea that a APU core released in 2024 is faster than one released in 2019 is a no brainer. Will it be tied to a system that uses VRAM as system memory and a SSD soldered into the motherboard? That will decide if it is faster or not.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

 

[Dorfdad]

So sometime in 2025 we’re expected to be able to buy a mini pc on laptop than can play 1080/60 and we’re supposed to be excited?

You tell me that can do 4k/60 high settings and I’m more excited. But 1080p with compromises at retail bc costs naw… and I’d bet the ps5 still looks better and more effective as they have bare access to the gpu.

 

[FireFly]

The article is talking about the "power" of the APU alone, not performance of the entire system.

The "power" of the APU in real world appplications will depend on the amount of memory bandwidth it has, which in turn is dictated by the type of memory supported, and the size of its memory bus.

 

[rodrigolfp]

The "power" of the APU in real world appplications will depend on the amount of memory bandwidth it has, which in turn is dictated by the type of memory supported, and the size of its memory bus.

In real world yes, on paper no.

 

[M1chl]

Horrible.

To think that this CPU is supposed to somehow deliver “next gen” gaming experiences all the way into 2026 and maybe even beyond is, well, rather ridiculous.

Yes, but also the OS is cut down to large degree, it has reworked sheduler and all these kings of things make is so that it isn't as slow as if it runs Win OS. Linus some time ago found board with Xbox One SoC and it basically was so slow it barely run the Win, yet on Xbox one you can game on it.

 

[FireFly]

In real world yes, on paper no.

The article said:

"AMD has seemingly just inadvertently confirmed the existence of a CPU that’s rumored to give you more gaming power than a PlayStation 5 without needing a graphics card."

That as far as I can see is a claim about real world, not paper performance. In any case it's hard to see why anyone should care about performance on paper at all. If performance cannot be extracted by users, what benefits does it bring?

 

[twilo99]

Yes, but also the OS is cut down to large degree, it has reworked sheduler and all these kings of things make is so that it isn't as slow as if it runs Win OS. Linus some time ago found board with Xbox One SoC and it basically was so slow it barely run the Win, yet on Xbox one you can game on it.

Sure, the xbox os is relatively light compared to its big daddy but it should be since it doesn't need to worry about supporting so much legacy code, etc. Still, the CPU sucks lol

 

[rodrigolfp]

The article said:

"AMD has seemingly just inadvertently confirmed the existence of a CPU that’s rumored to give you more gaming power than a PlayStation 5 without needing a graphics card."

That as far as I can see is a claim about real world, not paper performance. In any case its hard to see why anyone should care about performance on paper at all. If performance cannot be extracted by users, what benefits does it bring?

Because anyone with enough will and money can build a machine/console with this APU using good enough memory.

 

[Zathalus]

Unless it comes with some onboard HBM or is coupled to GDDR6 it won't perform nearly as well as a PS5.

 

[Bry0]

No really. The RX 7800 GCD is 200mm square or a bit smaller than the current PS5 APU,if made made a 48/40 CU GPU, it would be a sub 200mm part minus MCMs.

I don’t understand your point tbh. Strix halo has 16 zen 5c cores according to the PowerPoints plus 40cu for graphics plus dedicated ml silicon in one die. That’s packing a lot of capability. AMD has nothing like that in laptops right now that you can buy that isn’t some obscure reject Xbox apu sold in China.

I’m comparing it to AMD’s other apus for PC. Because that’s what this is meant to be. Not a custom chip for a console. It’s a chip for ultrabooks with a strong processor and strong integrated graphics that are competitive with lower end dedicated laptop gpus.

edit: if it’s faster than a ps5 or not I don’t care. Nobody can know that until tested. Considering the max wattage for strix halo is probably 125 w or something like that it’s probably clocked lower and thus slower. I’m not really focused on the click bait claim in the article. Just that this would make for a great apu for fast thin ultrabooks.

 

[FireFly]

Because anyone with enough will and money can build a machine/console with this APU using good enough memory.

To come close to the the bandwith of 7600 you would need at least a 128-bit bus using GDDR6 memory or a 256-bit bus using LPDDR5. Well either the Strix Halo supports GDDR6 or it doesn't, or it has enough memory controllers for a 256-bit bus, or it doesn't. At least in the PC space DDR6 isn't a thing yet, and octo-channel is only supported on the Threadripper Pro platform.

If the Strix Halo is intended for a console of some kind, it makes sense that they would include the requisite memory interface, but that remains to be seen.

 

[shamoomoo]

I don’t understand your point tbh. Strix halo has 16 zen 5c cores according to the PowerPoints plus 40cu for graphics plus dedicated ml silicon in one die. That’s packing a lot of capability. AMD has nothing like that in laptops right now that you can buy that isn’t some obscure reject Xbox apu sold in China.

I’m comparing it to AMD’s other apus for PC. Because that’s what this is meant to be. Not a custom chip for a console. It’s a chip for ultrabooks with a strong processor and strong integrated graphics that are competitive with lower end dedicated laptop gpus.

edit: if it’s faster than a ps5 or not I don’t care. Nobody can know that until tested. Considering the max wattage for strix halo is probably 125 w or something like that it’s probably clocked lower and thus slower. I’m not really focused on the click bait claim in the article. Just that this would make for a great apu for fast thin ultrabooks.

I'm saying that the GPU portion of Halo strix is going to be relatively small, considering how small AMD's GPU portion of their current graphics card are.

 

[Bry0]

I'm saying that the GPU portion of Halo strix is going to be relatively small, considering how small AMD's GPU portion of their current graphics card are.

Yeah I agree I think it will be. sorry, I meant beefy in terms of performance not size. With 4nm and used the 5c (dense) cores they are certainly trying to fit everything into the smallest cost efficient package possible.

 

[Sho_Gunn]

I cant understand why people have a hard time believing this could be possible.

AMD built the APU in the PS5 in 2019 based on Zen 2/RDNA 2 and the whole console (including storage, bluray etc) costed 500-600$.

Why shouldn't AMD be able to build a APU in 2024/2025 based on Zen 4 and RDNA 3/3,5/4 that has more power on both the CPU and GPU part?

The APU will probably cost 350-500$ (just for the APU) and then you need a motherboard, case, power supply, memory, ssd).

Why would an APU built in 2024 for $500 not beat a APU built in 2019 for $150-200?

I agree with you 100% most of the comments in here are confusing AF

 

[CrustyBritches]

MLiD is a crack head.

 

[playsaves3]

I mean, to outperform the current gen of consoles in the GPU area isnt to hard. It could be possible

It’s the opposite the cpu is is very easy to outperform the gpu and memory is harder

 

[playsaves3]

It’s even easier to outperform the console’s CPUs .. way behind the curve there

Exactly the cpus in the consoles are a joke but I think the gpu is solid (bar the rat capabilities)

 

[RainblowDash]

I wouldn't doubt it, the PS5 isn't new anymore.

 

[playsaves3]

Because a dedicated GPU simply becomes more viable once you reach those price segments. The lowest end of dedicated GPUs will match that overly expensive APU in need of ridiculous cooling and space.


It's not horrible at all. We went from absolute joke of Jaguar cores to Zen 2 cores which perform so much better in every regard. Current-gen consoles seem despite this "outdated" CPU be primarily bottlenecked by GPU regardless. Consoles really don't need super beefy CPUs cores. That's more a PC thing and when you aim for higher than 60 frames per second. If consoles were choked by their CPUs, we would see more games running at native 4K rather than upscaled from 1080p using some muddy FSR solution that DF will surely gush over.

Better over bad doesn’t mean good

 

[playsaves3]

Yes, consoles are stuck in the past from the moment they are born, which is why they can’t be responsible for the lead development of cutting edge gaming experiences in general, at least not in the current outdated paradigm.

How can you really push forward development when you are massively limited on the hardware side? Zen2 CPUs in 2026? Sad state of affairs.

Cerny could’ve at least put a zen3 core inside the ps5..

The biggest mistake of the ps5 was easily using zen 2 instead of 3

 

[THE DUCK]

Now link 10 of these bad boys together........

 

[Exede]

It’s the opposite the cpu is is very easy to outperform the gpu and memory is harder

Huh? I havent sayed whats easyer just that its possible. We all know that ram and cpu in the consoles are shitty

 

[playsaves3]

Huh? I havent sayed whats easyer just that its possible. We all know that ram and cpu in the consoles are shitty

I’m saying your discussing the gpu which is the strongest part of the console and ignoring the cpu the worst part

 

[Exede]

I’m saying your discussing the gpu which is the strongest part of the console and ignoring the cpu the worst part

Ahm yes but... its possible. I know that its the strongest part beside hd speed never the less its still possible

 

[bbeach123]

I cant understand why people have a hard time believing this could be possible.

AMD built the APU in the PS5 in 2019 based on Zen 2/RDNA 2 and the whole console (including storage, bluray etc) costed 500-600$.

Why shouldn't AMD be able to build a APU in 2024/2025 based on Zen 4 and RDNA 3/3,5/4 that has more power on both the CPU and GPU part?

The APU will probably cost 350-500$ (just for the APU) and then you need a motherboard, case, power supply, memory, ssd).

Why would an APU built in 2024 for $500 not beat a APU built in 2019 for $150-200?

Its easy to beat the TF numbers , but in real world performance(game) its still very bad(average) .

The ps4 apu had GDDR5 memory soldered around the APU , just like GPU , physical shorter than the location of PC's memory slot to CPU.

THe ps4 had 176 GB/s memory bandwidth (from google so not sure if accurate)
For comparison GTX 1080 had 320GB/s memory bandwidth.

And now DDR5-6400 had 102GB/s dual channel, bit lower than gtx1050 112.1 GB/s , even the 6500xt had 143.9 GB/s .

Aw shit we're talking about the PS5 ?
The ps5 HAD 448GB/s .

No matter how many gpu core(CU) AMD throw into the apu , its gonna be bottleneck by the memory bandwidth .

Looking at this picture you would think the z1 extreme atleast 3 time faster than Z1 , but in reality , its only 30-50% faster .
So unless they soldered GDDR6 to the board, or we start using DDR6(or even DDR7) , no I dont think apu can ever get to the ps5 level (with DDR5 atleast) .

 

[tusharngf]

Your first clue is that this rumor was posted by Moore's Law is Dead.

sometime MLID has been true on rumors. I have been following him for 4yrs but some of the rumors have been true from his channel.

 

[winjer]

sometime MLID has been true on rumors. I have been following him for 4yrs but some of the rumors have been true from his channel.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[Loxus]

Despite it being from MLiD.
Why can't this be more powerful than the PS5?

16 Zen5 cores and 40 CU RDNA3.5 chiplet APU surly should be more powerful than the 8 Zen2 cores and 36 CU RDNA2 PS5.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Beating their own tech isn't impressive. Beat Nvidia.

 

[Xyphie]

I'd expect around RX 7600 perf or so, wider but lower clock to fit inside 55-75W TDP for laptops. Assuming fastest LPDDR5X-8533 you have 273GB/s bandwidth + 32MB, which is pretty comparable.

At the end of the day I don't see this product getting much traction, the only use case is really SFF/laptop designs and the regular Strix Point paired with a RTX 5060 will make a better, cheaper and more power efficient laptop.

 

[Bojji]

Despite it being from MLiD.
Why can't this be more powerful than the PS5?

16 Zen5 cores and 40 CU RDNA3.5 chiplet APU surly should be more powerful than the 8 Zen2 cores and 36 CU RDNA2 PS5.

It can't because of memory bandwidth, it was explained many times in this thread. But It will have MUCH better cpu, that's for sure.

 

[crackajack]

Would be about damn time to finally release APUs that have somewhat beefy GPUs. Pushing more than 15W or whatever Vega did. Dialing down the CPU a bit and allowing the GPU a bit more power would make it much better balanced, within the 65W 95W brackets or above.
APUs so far never had a good balance at all. The CPU portion being the regular CPU but having a heavily cut GPU attached, offering only a very limited performance. Only clearly better compared to Intel HD iGPUs but worse than GPUs several gens back.
We have yet to see a proper GTX1650 successor, so anyone with a supertight budget or desire to use a SFF-PC for some reason, can only either choose between semiterrible APUs or "ancient" SFF GPUs or insanely priced Pro actually not really for gaming cards now. Having better balanced APUs should finally allow for some interesting more console like fps value and inscreased image+effects quality. So close the huge gap between current APUs and 4060 "entry" level cards.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Let's be real, a rx7600 beats the PS5 with like for like settings most of the time. I don't know why this would be triggering for people.

For reference here is a 4060 (same class of card as 7600) matching/beating the PS5 at equivalent settings. With the bandwidth reduction the APU won't do as well, but it also won't be as far off as people are thinking.

 

[WitchHunter]

Do people not realize that PS5 also has an APU, and therefore technically uses an integrated GPU? Regardless, it's always about power consumption. 40 Compute Units is massive and will be a power hog and will require good amount of cooling too. So absolutely not fitting for Mini PCs as the article claims.

Airjet to the rescue (hopefully).

 

[Bojji]

Let's be real, a rx7600 beats the PS5 with like for like settings most of the time. I don't know why this would be triggering for people.

For reference here is a 4060 (same class of card as 7600) matching/beating the PS5 at equivalent settings. With the bandwidth reduction the APU won't do as well, but it also won't be as far off as people are thinking.

In theory 7600 is close to PS5 GPU in power but it has 288.0 GB/s BW vs. 448 on PS5. 4060 has even less so it looks like Remedy incompetence here.

PC version can run just like on console hardware or better or worse depending on how good optimization is on console version AND pc version. TLOU1 requires much more powerful GPU to match PS5 version in performance when usually 2070S is not far off in raw power (now we can assume that PS5 is more like 2080 in raw raster power after 3+ years of testing):

 

[DaGwaphics]

In theory 7600 is close to PS5 GPU in power but it has 288.0 GB/s BW vs. 448 on PS5. 4060 has even less so it looks like Remedy incompetence here.

PC version can run just like on console hardware or better or worse depending on how good optimization is on console version AND pc version. TLOU1 requires much more powerful GPU to match PS5 version in performance when usually 2070S is not far off in raw power (now we can assume that PS5 is more like 2080 in raw raster power after 3+ years of testing):

You can't look at the console bandwidth like that, however. Just because in most cases, every cycle that the CPU accesses the memory pool the GPU has to wait that cycle out. Or the bus gets split.

 

[Bojji]

You can't look at the console bandwidth like that, however. Just because in most cases, every cycle that the CPU accesses the memory pool the GPU has to wait that cycle out. Or the bus gets split.

Bus probably is split most of the time but:

Zen 2 can access something like that on PC, not much more and this is good speed DDR4.

You still have over 400GB/s left for GPU.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Bus probably is split most of the time but:

Zen 2 can access something like that on PC, not much more and this is good speed DDR4.

You still have over 400GB/s left for GPU.

It doesn't split like that. If two processors are accessing the memory pool at the same time the memory controllers split. The max to the gpu at that point is half the rated bandwidth. I doubt they go that route very often, better to give the controller to the CPU and eat those cycles in order to access the full capabilities of the memory when it could be accessed.

 

[Sethbacca]

Honestly, if it can give me a couple times the performance of my current 4770k/1070 setup with some RDNA 3/4 features this is what I've been waiting for. I don't really do much PC gaming these days but would like something to mess around with on occasion.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

How it compares to Nvidia though?