Support NeoGAF

[Brawndo Addict]

There are a lot of ideas presented that have analogous ideas. Instead of having someone commit suicide in a game to provide a point of grief for a main character, it could be a car accident, it could be a trip and fall, it could be a wild animal attack... it could be a lot of different things. I don't think just saying "You could have done it a different way" is a compelling reason to do something a different way.

The point is that they should have a reason for making it suicide. If I was to ask, "What went into the decision to have the character die by suicide as opposed to cancer? Did you feel that the theme of hopelessness resonated more with the player character's personal journey?" I would hope that the answer I get back is substantive and not "I don't know why we chose that specifically, there wasn't really a reason".

If you don't have a compelling reason for your choice in the first place, than asking for it to be something else is no less compelling either. And it becomes compelling if the original choice is more harmful in a broad sense than other analogous possible choices.

I don't think -all- sex workers in game media are there for the same reasons, so I think it's important to remember that of course everyone is going to have different motivations for the things they put in their games, even if it's the same thing across many games.

That being said, I also don't think it's inherently wrong to present sex and sexual themes in games - if the Triss sex scenes are just there for sexual appeal and gratification... well I don't inherently have a problem with that. I think the issue arises from not enough variety, not from the fact that there are games that have sex and show sexy things.

I guess you're just a more hopeful person than me. I honestly don't think that I would get a good answer, assuming it was honest, if I asked the developers why they decided to include a level with a brothel or sex workers or whatever. What made them gravitate towards that decision in the first place over some alternative level idea? I also don't think it's wrong to have a problem with sexual content in games if that content is always used purely for sexual appeal/gratification and nothing else.

I also don't support abdicating any personal responsibility from developers just because they're all individual pieces of the larger industry. That same logic excuses companies from culpability in diversity hiring, "There's nothing inherently wrong with an individual company having all its employees be white men over 50, it's just a problem of not enough companies having diversity in the aggregate". Unless some more localized responsibility exists for change, the status quo is unlikely to shift.

I don't quite understand this. You're saying that until games prove themselves to you, in some way, they shouldn't portray women has non-empowered? I don't know if that's going to convince anyone.

As a feeling, yes that's how I feel about a lot of media, not just games. I don't see a lot of merit to the excuses I see when the problematic behavior has negative consequences for society/individuals. It's not like including an empowered woman if you have a disempowered one is some enormous obstacle to overcome.

As a practical policy though, of course not.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

While I'm not denying misogyny within gaming you should really read up on women in STEM fields. For instance the gender gap between men and women in engineering is far worse than programming and it's not because engineers have a misogyny problem.

Could you further explain?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/96569154020/yes-please-explain-to-me-again-how-this-has

trigger warning: everything

Such overwhelming reactions for just a woman voicing her opinions about games.

I've seen women voicing similar sentiment against movies and books and tv series and the feedback is no where close to what Anita has to endure. It's demoralizing that a large subset of the male gamer population is reacting this way to her, and it speaks volumes that there's still a lot of progress to be done in pulling this young industry up to the standards of where mainstream entertainment is held at.

Why is it so hard for some males to accept that there are legitimate issues with women's representation in video games and stop arguing about the depth or methodology or whatever other peripheral aspects of her videos and instead join their voices to make the entire industry better for everyone?

idk. just feeling a bit down after reading all that hateful tweets at her, berating her as b*tch or c*nt or wishing her to get raped just for having a feminine perspective at things.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Why is it so hard for some males to accept that there are legitimate issues with women's representation in video games and stop arguing about the depth or methodology or whatever other peripheral aspects of her videos and instead join their voices to make the entire industry better for everyone?

I think a lot of the people arguing about the depth and methodology of her videos do in fact accept that there are legitimate issues with women's representation in video games, and view shallow, methodologically-dubious arguments as being actively counterproductive when it comes to making the industry better for everyone.

 

[Lime]

While I'm not denying misogyny within gaming you should really read up on women in STEM fields. For instance the gender gap between men and women in engineering is far worse than programming and it's not because engineers have a misogyny problem.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5926193/women-gaming-harassment

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/19/6002893/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-one-year-later

Such overwhelming reactions for just a woman voicing her opinions about games.

I've seen women voicing similar sentiment against movies and books and tv series and the feedback is no where close to what Anita has to endure. It's demoralizing that a large subset of the male gamer population is reacting this way to her, and it speaks volumes that there's still a lot of progress to be done in pulling this young industry up to the standards of where mainstream entertainment is held at.

Why is it so hard for some males to accept that there are legitimate issues with women's representation in video games and stop arguing about the depth or methodology or whatever other peripheral aspects of her videos and instead join their voices to make the entire industry better for everyone?

idk. just feeling a bit down after reading all that hateful tweets at her, berating her as b*tch or c*nt or wishing her to get raped just for having a feminine perspective at things.

Power-holders don't want to relinquish power. You see it whenever African Americans talk about their plight as a marginalized minority group. You see it when Arabs in Europe talk about their discrimination. You see it when homosexuals demand better representation. You see it when lower income families and workers want better rights and benefits.

Every single time, these groups are faced with neglect, denial, harassment, deflection, threats, etc. by the ones who enjoy the advantages of being in power and the ones enjoying their privilege as usually straight white males.

 

[Señor Coyote]

http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5926193/women-gaming-harassment

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/19/6002893/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-one-year-later

Again, not denying the misogyny. I'm simply stating it's a far more complex problem then just that.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I think a lot of the people arguing about the depth and methodology of her videos do in fact accept that there are legitimate issues with women's representation in video games, and view shallow, methodologically-dubious arguments as being actively counterproductive when it comes to making the industry better for everyone.

Really? Cuz from the responses from developers and game studios I think her videos are NOT counterproductive.

What else to be said from carrying on these stubborn discussions then, about her methodology and depth and whatnot? "Despite news showing that her videos are doing good, I still think her videos are counterproductive and that's my set-in-stone stance"?

Sorry. I'm just not quite following the sentiment.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Really? Cuz from the responses from developers and game studios I think her videos are NOT counterproductive.

What else to be said from carrying on these stubborn discussions then, about her methodology and depth and whatnot? "Despite news showing that her videos are doing good, I still think her videos are counterproductive and that's my set-in-stone stance"?

Sorry. I'm just not quite following the sentiment.

Because much like her argument that while some of these games are good there are still aspects to criticize, the same can be applied to her videos.

 

[Brakke]

Because much like her argument that while some of these games are good there are still aspects to criticize, the same can be applied to her videos.

Sure. But "counter-productive" is a real strong claim, especially in the face of a lot of developers specifically calling the series productive...

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Sure. But "counter-productive" is a real strong claim, especially in the face of a lot of developers specifically calling the series productive...

Not many in this thread saying it was counter-productive.

Im not saying she is above criticism

Just wondering at the fervour with which people are arguing about the videos. It just seems to be a very affecting thing. And, other media's critics are not subjected to the same resistance or vitriol (e.g. movie/ tv series / book critics). Gaming seems to make people react really, really, really personally. For some reasons.

It seems that way because we ourselves are so invested in gaming as a medium to the point where we are on a forum such as this. If I was a film or literary buff I could find similar sorts of resistance. Not to mention gaming as a thing hasn't been around nearly as long as these other mediums, meaning more than likely it will go through similar problems (i.e Bechdel test sort of stuff)

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Because much like her argument that while some of these games are good there are still aspects to criticize, the same can be applied to her videos.

Im not saying she is above criticism

Just wondering at the fervour with which people are arguing about the videos. It just seems to be a very affecting thing. And, other media's critics are not subjected to the same resistance or vitriol (e.g. movie/ tv series / book critics). Gaming seems to make people react really, really, really personally. For some reasons.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

What else to be said from carrying on these stubborn discussions then, about her methodology and depth and whatnot? "Despite news showing that her videos are doing good, I still think her videos are counterproductive and that's my set-in-stone stance"?

Sorry. I'm just not quite following the sentiment.

Are you asking what's to be gained from criticizing sloppy sourcework and shallow argumentation? Maybe someone will be inspired to do a video series with more diligent sourcework and deeper argumentation. I know someone here at Gaf was talking about doing something like that.

Scolding critics of Sarkeesian's methodology for not showing enough support is kind of like scolding Sarkeesian for not going easy on games.

Im not saying she is above criticism

Just wondering at the fervour with which people are arguing about the videos. It just seems to be a very affecting thing. And, other media's critics are not subjected to the same resistance or vitriol (e.g. movie/ tv series / book critics). Gaming seems to make people react really, really, really personally. For some reasons.

I can only speak for myself, but I find it important to criticize Sarkeesian precisely because she's one of the only visible voices in the space. There are tons of movie critics, TV critics, and book critics out there, some of them doing a great job and some of them doing a terrible job. In video games there's basically only Sarkeesian doing a mediocre job and a bunch of impossible-to-locate academics doing a good job.

 

[Lime]

Again, not denying the misogyny. I'm simply stating it's a far more complex problem then just that.

Oh, I don't disagree with you regarding the gender gap in STEM fields, Sorry if it came off as that. I was just stating that video games industry suffers from a problem when it comes to women. And that it works to exclude them.

Like Brianna Wu, a notable game developer tweeted:

The most breathtakingly dumb thing I've heard today. “@AtomicHarbour: As a game dev I can tell you very very few women want to make games.”

Most of the problems of the industry are solved if you make a choice to include women. We're half the planet, almost half of the market! If you include women in gamedev and game journalism, you'll see games evolve to meet OUR needs as well. This, by the way, will make MONEY. We're complaining because we love games as much as you do! We want to make them, report on them, and see ourselves represented in them!

and entertainingly she states that:

UNVEILED: The evil feminist agenda in Videogames! I want studios to be more conscious about hiring women, so our viewpoint is included. That's it. I don't want to end all jiggle physics. I don't hate gamers. I don't want to censor character designs like Ivy. I just want more women involved so we'll get more female protagonists and less accidental sexism. This way, games will be fun for us, too. If you're not in the industry, you're probably unaware at the breathtaking lack of diversity in who makes your games, reports on your games. To be honest? If there's any "corruption" in the games industry, it's that women aren't fairly considered for jobs. It's a white man's world

 

[Lime]

Im not saying she is above criticism

Just wondering at the fervour with which people are arguing about the videos. It just seems to be a very affecting thing. And, other media's critics are not subjected to the same resistance or vitriol (e.g. movie/ tv series / book critics). Gaming seems to make people react really, really, really personally. For some reasons.

It's a combination of building an identity around the Western geek culture, lack of interaction with the opposite gender, culturally ingrained sexist attitudes, a severely stubborn unwillingness to listen, and being primarily catered to by a multi-billion entertainment industry for many years.

And then the whole aspect of being unaccountable for the words and actions that they commit to online.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

It's a combination of building an identity around the Western geek culture, lack of interaction with the opposite gender, culturally ingrained sexist attitudes, a severely stubborn unwillingness to listen, and being primarily catered to by a multi-billion entertainment industry for many years.

And then the whole aspect of being unaccountable for the words and actions that they commit to online.

It's important to distinguish between reasonable and unreasonable criticisms of Sarkeesian's work. If you treat all criticisms as emanating from the same nexus of "Western geek culture identity, lack of interaction with the opposite gender, sexism, stubbornness, and games industry brainwashing" you're essentially constructing an epistemically-closed bubble for yourself and for Sarkeesian where no novel arguments can be permitted to enter.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Are you asking what's to be gained from criticizing sloppy sourcework and shallow argumentation? Maybe someone will be inspired to do a video series with more diligent sourcework and deeper argumentation. I know someone here at Gaf was talking about doing something like that.

Scolding critics of Sarkeesian's methodology for not showing enough support is kind of like scolding Sarkeesian for not going easy on games.



I can only speak for myself, but I find it important to criticize Sarkeesian precisely because she's one of the only visible voices in the space. There are tons of movie critics, TV critics, and book critics out there, some of them doing a great job and some of them doing a terrible job. In video games there's basically only Sarkeesian doing a mediocre job and a bunch of impossible-to-locate academics doing a good job.

Bolded part: I wish I can see this to gain traction. Who's managing it? Is there somewhere I can contribute support for it? Has there been any further discussions since? Because I genuinely hope it's not just some sentiment that will fizzle out in the foreseeable future.

I'm not scolding Sarkeesian critics. As I reiterate: I am wondering with which the fervour that arguments are being held to resist against her work.

Underlined part: That's .... interesting. For me, when I see a fledgling movement, albeit an imperfect form, I would encourage it. Precisely because she is one of the very few visible women speaking in a hostile environment, I'd give it more support, instead of hyper-analyzing her work.

When there are a plethora of critics, I'd actually be more inclined to go with a harsher knife because there are already a robust platform from which critics are not made unsafe in their personal life.

If there are academics doing a good job, but they are impossible to find, how are they doing the industry as much favour into making progress as your so-branded Anita's mediocre job?

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Bolded part: I wish I can see this to gain traction. Who's managing it? Is there somewhere I can contribute support for it? Has there been any further discussions since? Because I genuinely hope it's not just some sentiment that will fizzle out in the foreseeable future.

I'm not scolding Sarkeesian critics. As I reiterate: I am wondering with which the fervour that arguments are being held to resist against her work.

Underlined part: That's .... interesting. For me, when I see a fledgling movement, albeit an imperfect form, I would encourage it. Precisely because she is one of the very few visible women speaking in a hostile environment, I'd give it more support, instead of hyper-analyzing her work.

When there are a plethora of critics, I'd actually be more inclined to go with a harsher knife because there are already a robust platform from which critics are not made unsafe in their personal life.

If there are academics doing a good job, but they are impossible to find, how are they doing the industry as much favour into making progress as your so-branded Anita's mediocre job?

But she's not a high schooler, she's a college graduate. Perhaps going in with a harsher knife encourages stronger arguments from future critics.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

But she's not a high schooler, she's a college graduate. Perhaps going in with a harsher knife encourages stronger arguments from future critics.

Where did this highschooler angle comes from?

I'm saying, her voice is a precious, rare voice. She's not presenting a perfect presentation, sure, but why is her antagonists so brutal and resisting and incredibly stubborn and some, even terrifyingly threatening?

It's so mind-boggling that her voice is met with this level of bullheaded resistance. That was all I was saying.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Oh, I don't disagree with you regarding the gender gap in STEM fields, Sorry if it came off as that. I was just stating that video games industry suffers from a problem when it comes to women. And that it works to exclude them.

I'm guessing you blame straight white males for women/girls lack of interest in STEM fields, as well? You know, that lack of interest in fields such as computer science and programming might explain a large portion of the industry's gender disparity?

And then the whole aspect of being unaccountable for the words and actions that they commit to online.

How exactly would you like to see someone held accountable for their actions online? The death of anonymity?

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Where did this highschooler angle comes from?

I'm saying, her voice is a precious, rare voice. She's not presenting a perfect presentation, sure, but why is her antagonists so brutal and resisting and incredibly stubborn and some, even terrifyingly threatening?

It's so mind-boggling that her voice is met with this level of bullheaded resistance. That was all I was saying.

From there. She's a grown woman in a movement that is for the most part not fledging anymore (maybe so in games). Listening to criticism can improve one's self, it shouldn't be about blowing it all off.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Bolded part: I wish I can see this to gain traction. Who's managing it? Is there somewhere I can contribute support for it? Has there been any further discussions since? Because I genuinely hope it's not just some sentiment that will fizzle out in the foreseeable future.

The Blue Jihad was the one saying he'd do it, he was in the process of planning what the series might look like last I heard. I know several people have expressed interest in helping him.

Underlined part: That's .... interesting. For me, when I see a fledgling movement, albeit an imperfect form, I would encourage it. Precisely because she is one of the very few visible women speaking in a hostile environment, I'd give it more support, instead of hyper-analyzing her work.

When there are a plethora of critics, I'd actually be more inclined to go with a harsher knife because there are already a robust platform from which critics are not made unsafe in their personal life.

If there are academics doing a good job, but they are impossible to find, how are they doing the industry as much favour into making progress as your so-branded Anita's mediocre job?

Well ideally the academics doing a good job might be inspired by Sarkeesian's videos to interface directly with the public instead of (or in addition to) publishing their articles in obscurity. But it's a rare academic who would have the time or the inclination to devote to this sort of pop culture commentary, especially since I imagine the proportion of tenured games theorists is pretty low compared to other fields.

As for going easy on people who are exploring virgin territory like Sarkeesian is, that's not my instinct. Maybe it's my background and training, but when I read an article on a given understudied historical context or a given underutilized source text I certainly don't think pulling my punches is helpful for anyone. The nature of heavily-exploited fields is that they police themselves and tend to cull weak arguments and shoddy methodologies. People all alone in the wilderness can get away with a lot of shit that they wouldn't get away with if they had informed readers looking over their shoulders.

Sarkeesian wouldn't get away with making arguments like this if she were a grad student somewhere, which I wish she were.

 

[Lime]

It's important to distinguish between reasonable and unreasonable criticisms of Sarkeesian's work. If you treat all criticisms as emanating from the same nexus of "Western geek culture identity, lack of interaction with the opposite gender, sexism, stubbornness, and games industry brainwashing" you're essentially constructing an epistemically-closed bubble for yourself and for Sarkeesian where no novel arguments can be permitted to enter.

I am addressing the fervour and harassment by gamers on this topic that YesOrNoYes was asking about, not the actual legit criticism that others have put forth in earlier posts and threads.

It is apparently nerve that gamers get insane and crazy over for some of the guessed reasons I listed and all the illogical and ad hominem and sexist arguments get employed in the attempt of defending the luxury hobby of video games.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

From there. She's a grown woman in a movement that is for the most part not fledging anymore (maybe so in games). Listening to criticism can improve one's self, it shouldn't be about blowing it all off.

The issue of valid criticism in favour of women's representation in the gaming industry is definitely a fledgling movement. Or, I think it is a cause that deserves more support than what she's getting.

As I say, I dont think I am advocating that she should not receive feedback. No, not at all.

Again, I am wondering how come she's receiving not only so much bullheaded resistance but also rape threats and gender-based slurs from some of her antagonists.

tl;dr: I really question anyone's support for the issues she's presenting, if they are mostly arguing against the perceived worth of her videos or the imperfect methodology / depth with which she's been speaking in.

I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from? I really think feedback is valuable, and she's certainly not above criticism, at any level.

 

[aeolist]

I'm guessing you blame straight white males for women/girls lack of interest in STEM fields, as well? You know, that lack of interest in fields such as computer science and programming might explain a large portion of the industry's gender disparity?

the dearth of women in STEM is largely due to them being told explicitly and implicitly as children that they are not good at math and science subjects. i would call this the fault of the patriarchy rather than "straight white men" specifically, because while they are similar the former is more precise and accurate.

 

[Lime]

I'm guessing you blame straight white males for women/girls lack of interest in STEM fields, as well? You know, that lack of interest in fields such as computer science and programming might explain a large portion of the industry's gender disparity?

No, please don't think I blame straight white males for the gender gap. The issue is structural and societal and it starts from almost the instant that a person or child starts to construct his or her own identity. The behaviour by the people dominating the field certainly works to exclude e.g. women, but their behaviour is informed by societal and social and structural values and perspectives.

Solving the issue of gender discrimination is incredibly complex and it needs to be addressed holistically by destroying normative and oppressive gender ideals for both men and women on all levels and periods of society and human identity development.

How exactly would you like to see someone held accountable for their actions online? The death of anonymity?

I have no solution to that. Much smarter and insightful people probably have suggestions to combating online criminal behaviour that I don't know of. I am just suggesting that the reason why people are able to be so extreme in their online behaviour is, among other factors, because they are not accountable the same way they are in real life.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Let's look at how much energy and time GAF has spent discussing it (I'm using 100ppp).

The first thread about her kickstarter: 45 pages or +4400 posts.

The first episode releases: 76 pages or +7500 posts.

The second episode releases: 17 pages or +1600 posts.

The third episode releases, but two threads, one - two: For a combined 13 pages or +1200 posts.

The fourth episode releases: 9 pages or +800 posts.

The fifth episode releases: 15 pages or +1400 posts.

The sixth episode releases: 23 pages and counting, or +2200 posts.

And I'm sure there's been other threads about her that I've missed. But just those comes out to 198 pages or +19,800 posts.

Compare this to the original PSN hack thread only went for 68 pages. Or the Xbox One Reveal (58 pages) and the PlayStation 4 Reveal (96 pages). Apparently her video series is only 22% less important to the GAF community in terms of posts than the PSN hack plus both Next-Gen Console reveals combined.

For a video series that follows the exact same format and style for each episode, one would expect that serious critique about her style would be mostly over within an episode or two. After all, the old N'Gai Resident Evil 5 thread only went for 14 pages, and the #1reasonwhy thread from 2012 only went for 11 pages. Or how about that one Kotaku article concerning black representation in gaming which went for 7 pages, or the Dragon's Crown thread which went for 14 pages, or the RPS article about sexism in the game industry which went on for 20. Add all those up and you still haven't matched the thread length her first episode got.

To the say the level of response is disproportionate is putting it mildly.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

the dearth of women in STEM is largely due to them being told explicitly and implicitly as children that they are not good at math and science subjects. i would call this the fault of the patriarchy rather than "straight white men" specifically, because while they are similar the former is more precise and accurate.

Usually when someone is told they can't do something, it serves as an impetus to prove that person wrong and do it anyway. We see that all the time in all areas and that includes women being told they can't do something to minorities being told they can't do it. I can see how that perception is oppressive, but it really shouldn't stop anyone from pursuing their interests, particularly if they earn good grades in STEM topics and can see for themselves that they can do it.

Isn't it also possible that girls/women tend to gravitate away from STEM fields for other reasons?

 

[APF]

I'm saying, her voice is a precious, rare voice. She's not presenting a perfect presentation, sure, but why is her antagonists so brutal and resisting and incredibly stubborn and some, even terrifyingly threatening?

It's so mind-boggling that her voice is met with this level of bullheaded resistance. That was all I was saying.

I think there are two different things going on. One is a reasonable criticism of her work evaluating it on its own terms. This is perfectly fine, and healthy. Another is an unreasonable criticism aiming to dismiss her work because it's not perfect. This is really another form of concern trolling ("I'd totally agree with it but unfortunately it's imperfect so it's worthless. If only someone did it in a way that passes my murky requirements, until then let's not bring this up"). Being the only person arguing a valid point--or more importantly the most accessible voice--is extremely valuable even if their work does not match some of the literally most famous people in history who have also done social / cultural / media analysis and commentary (a criticism of her that has been made in these threads recently).

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I think there are two different things going on. One is a reasonable criticism of her work evaluating it on its own terms. This is perfectly fine, and healthy. Another is an unreasonable criticism aiming to dismiss her work because it's not perfect. This is really another form of concern trolling ("I'd totally agree with it but unfortunately it's imperfect so it's worthless. If only someone did it in a way that passes my murky requirements, until then let's not bring this up"). Being the only person arguing a valid point--or more importantly the most accessible voice--is extremely valuable even if their work does not match some of the literally most famous people in history who have also done social / cultural / media analysis and commentary (a criticism of her that has been made in these threads recently).

Yes, this. Very aptly put. I agree, and thank you for your eloquence. This mirrors my feelings very much.

Let's look at how much energy and time GAF has spent discussing it (I'm using 100ppp).

The first thread about her kickstarter: 45 pages or +4400 posts.

The first episode releases: 76 pages or +7500 posts.

The second episode releases: 17 pages or +1600 posts.

The third episode releases, but two threads, one - two: For a combined 13 pages or +1200 posts.

The fourth episode releases: 9 pages or +800 posts.

The fifth episode releases: 15 pages or +1400 posts.

The sixth episode releases: 23 pages and counting, or +2200 posts.

And I'm sure there's been other threads about her that I've missed. But just those comes out to 198 pages or +19,800 posts.

Compare this to the original PSN hack thread only went for 68 pages. Or the Xbox One Reveal (58 pages) and the PlayStation 4 Reveal (96 pages). Apparently her video series is only 22% less important to the GAF community in terms of posts than the PSN hack plus both Next-Gen Console reveals combined.

For a video series that follows the exact same format and style for each episode, one would expect that serious critique about her style would be mostly over within an episode or two. After all, the old N'Gai Resident Evil 5 thread only went for 14 pages, and the #1reasonwhy thread from 2012 only went for 11 pages. Or how about that one Kotaku article concerning black representation in gaming which went for 7 pages, or the Dragon's Crown thread which went for 14 pages, or the RPS article about sexism in the game industry which went on for 20. Add all those up and you still haven't matched the thread length her first episode got.

To the say the level of response is disproportionate is putting it mildly.

Thank you for putting this post together. This is basically what I've been trying to say, stumblingly and with much less finesse.

...

<3

 

[Lime]

In video games there's basically only Sarkeesian doing a mediocre job and a bunch of impossible-to-locate academics doing a good job.

Pro-tip: Find a contemporary academic article on "gender" and "video games". Use Google Scholar if you have to, or your academic library's search engine or DIGRA Students' ressource portal or ACADEMIA.EDU. Through this you will easily find a lot of stuff on gender and video game culture. Then look through the bibliographies of each article that you read and find cited articles and other relevant authors who study the field.

Since you are in need of it, I already did some of the work for you (this list includes racial aspects as well)

• Barrett, P. 2006. “White Thumbs, Black Bodies: Race, Violence, and Neoliberal Fantasies in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.” The Review of Education, Pedagogy, and Cultural Studies 28 (1): 95–119.
• Barton, Matthew D. 2004. “Gay Characters in Video Games.” Armchair Arcade, March. http://www.armchairarcade.com/armcha...tml?article.27.
• Beasley, B., and T. C. Standley. 2002. “Shirts vs. Skins: Clothing as an Indicator of Gender Role Stereotyping in Video Games.” Mass Communication & Society 5 (3): 279–93.
• Behm-Morawitz, Elizabeth, and Dana Mastro. 2009. “The Effects of the Sexualization of Female Video Game Characters on Gender Stereotyping and Female Self-Concept.” Sex Roles 61 (11-12): 808–23. doi:10.1007/s11199-009-9683-8.
• Brock, André. 2011. “‘“When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong”’: Resident Evil 5, Racial Representation, and Gamers.” Games and Culture 6 (5): 429–52. doi:10.1177/1555412011402676.
• Bryce, Jo, and Jason Rutter. 2002. “Killing like a Girl: Gendered Gaming and Girl Gamers’ Visibility.” In Paper Presented at the Computer Games and Digital Culture Conferences. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...10.1.1.97.9334.
• Burgess, M. C. R., K. E. Dill, S. P. Stermer, S. R. Burgess, and B. P. Brown. 2011. “Playing with Prejudice: The Prevalence and Consequences of Racial Stereotypes in Video Games.” Media Psychology 14 (3): 289–311.
• Cassell, J., and H. Jenkins. 1998. From Barbie® to Mortal Kombat: Gender and Computer Games. MIT Press. http://www.google.com/books?hl=da&lr...5htBE_DyIJvmAY.
• Consalvo, M. 2003. “Hot Dates and Fairy-Tale Romances: Studying Sexuality in Video Games.” The Video Game Theory Reader 1: 171–94.
• Crawford, Garry. 2012. Video Gamers. London; New York: Routledge.
• Cruea, Mark, and Sung-Yeon Park. 2012. “Gender Disparity in Video Game Usage: A Third-Person Perception-Based Explanation.” Media Psychology 15 (1): 44–67. doi:10.1080/15213269.2011.648861.
• Dickey, Michele D. 2006. “Girl Gamers: The Controversy of Girl Games and the Relevance of Female-Oriented Game Design for Instructional Design.” British Journal of Educational Technology 37 (5): 785–93. doi:10.1111/j.1467-8535.2006.00561.x.
• Dietrich, David R. 2013. “Avatars of Whiteness: Racial Expression in Video Game Characters.” Sociological Inquiry 83 (1): 82–105.
• Dietz, T. L. 1998. “An Examination of Violence and Gender Role Portrayals in Video Games: Implications for Gender Socialization and Aggressive Behavior.” Sex Roles 38 (5): 425–42.
• Dill, K. E., D. A. Gentile, W. A. Richter, and J. C. Dill. 2005. “Violence, Sex, Race, and Age in Popular Video Games: A Content Analysis.” http://psycnet.apa.org/books/11213/008.
• Dill, Karen E., and Kathryn P. Thill. 2007. “Video Game Characters and the Socialization of Gender Roles: Young People’s Perceptions Mirror Sexist Media Depictions.” Sex Roles 57 (11-12): 851–64. doi:10.1007/s11199-007-9278-1.
• Downs, E., and S. L. Smith. 2010. “Keeping Abreast of Hypersexuality: A Video Game Character Content Analysis.” Sex Roles 62 (11): 721–33.
• Dunlop, J. C. 2007. “The US Video Game Industry: Analyzing Representation of Gender and Race.” International Journal of Technology and Human Interaction (IJTHI) 3 (2): 96–109.
• Embrick, David G., Talmadge J. Wright, and András Lukács. 2012. Social Exclusion, Power, and Video Game Play: New Research in Digital Media and Technology. Lexington Books. http://www.google.com/books?hl=da&lr...6zYbPHYSHBoXvA.
• Everett, Anna, and S. Craig Watkins. 2008. “The Power of Play: The Portrayal and Performance of Race in Video Games.” The Ecology of Games: Connecting Youth, Games, and Learning, 141–64.
• Fox, J., and J. N. Bailenson. 2009. “Virtual Virgins and Vamps: The Effects of Exposure to Female Characters’ Sexualized Appearance and Gaze in an Immersive Virtual Environment.” Sex Roles 61 (3): 147–57.
• Frasca, Gonzalo. 2001. “Videogames of the Oppressed: Videogames as a Means for Critical Thinking and Debate”. Georgia Institute of Technology. http://ludology.org/articles/thesis/...Videogames.pdf.
• Fron, Janine, Tracy Fullerton, Jacquelyn Ford Morie, and Celia Pearce. 2007. “The Hegemony of Play.” In Situated Play: Proceedings of Digital Games Research Association 2007 Conference. Tokyo, Japan, 1–10. http://ict.usc.edu/pubs/The Hegemony of Play.pdf.
• Game Developer Magazine. 2013. “Game Developer Salary Survey 2013.” http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault...April_2013.pdf.
• Griffiths, M., and A. Lewis. 2011. “Confronting Gender Representation: A Qualitative Study of the Experiences and Motivations of Female Casual-Gamers.” Aloma: Revista de Psicologia, Ciències de l’Educació I de l’Esport, no. 28. http://revistaaloma.net/index.php/aloma/article/view/37.
• IGDA. 2005. “Game Developer Demographics Report | IGDA.” http://legacy.igda.org/game-develope...raphics-report.
• Ivory, James D. 2006. “Still a Man’s Game: Gender Representation in Online Reviews of Video Games.” Mass Communication and Society 9 (1): 103–14. doi:10.1207/s15327825mcs0901_6.
• Jenkins, H., and J. Cassell. 2008. From Quake Grrls to Desperate Housewives: A Decade of Gender and Computer Games. The MIT Press.
• Jensen, C. 2012. “Deconstructing the Roles of Women in Video Games.” Accessed December 12. http://www.acrobatplanet.com/go/Deco...ideo_Games.pdf.
• Jenson, Jennifer, and Suzanne de Castell. 2010. “Gender, Simulation, and Gaming: Research Review and Redirections.” Simulation & Gaming 41 (1): 51–71. doi:10.1177/1046878109353473.
• Kafai, Yasmin B., Carrie Heeter, Jill Denner, and Jennifer Y. Sun. 2008. “Preface: Pink, Purple, Casual, or Mainstream Games: Moving beyond the Gender Divide.” Beyond Barbie and Mortal Combat. New Perspectives on Gender and Gaming. The MIT Press: London. http://mitpress2.mit.edu/books/chapt...13198pref1.pdf.
• Kowert, Rachel. 2014. “The Gamer Identity Crisis «&#8239;First Person Scholar.” http://www.firstpersonscholar.com/th...entity-crisis/.
• Kuznekoff, Jeffrey H., and Lindsey M. Rose. 2013. “Communication in Multiplayer Gaming: Examining Player Responses to Gender Cues.” New Media & Society 15 (4): 541–56. doi:10.1177/1461444812458271.
• Leonard, D. 2004. “High Tech Blackface: Race, Sports, Video Games and Becoming the Other.” In Vol. 4.
• Leonard, D. J. 2005. “To the White Extreme: Conquering Athletic Space, White Manhood and Racing Virtual Reality.” Digital Gameplay: Essays on the Nexus of Game and Gamer, 110–29.
• Leonard, David. 2003. “‘Live in Your World, Play in Ours’: Race, Video Games, and Consuming the Other.” SIMILE: Studies In Media & Information Literacy Education 3 (4): 1–9.
• ———. 2006. “Virtual Gangstas, Coming to a Suburban House near You: Demonization, Commodification, and Policing Blackness.” In The Meaning and Culture of Grand Theft Auto.
• Leonard, David J. 2006. “Not a Hater, Just Keepin’ It Real The Importance of Race- and Gender-Based Game Studies.” Games and Culture 1 (1): 83–88. doi:10.1177/1555412005281910.
• Mou, Y., and W. Peng. 2008. “Gender and Racial Stereotypes in Popular Video Games.” Handbook of Research on Effective Electronic Gaming in Education, 922–37.
• Pearce, Celia. 2009. Communities of Play: Emergent Cultures in Multiplayer Games and Virtual Worlds. Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press. http://www.google.com/books?hl=en&lr...6Y3O3jJwGXkiDU.
• Shaw, Adrienne. 2009. “Putting the Gay in Games Cultural Production and GLBT Content in Video Games.” Games and Culture 4 (3): 228–53. doi:10.1177/1555412009339729.
• ———. 2010a. “Toward an Ethic of Representation: Ethics and the Representation of.” Designing Games for Ethics: Models, Techniques and Frameworks, 159.
• ———. 2010b. “What Is Video Game Culture? Cultural Studies and Game Studies.” Games and Culture 5 (4): 403–24. doi:10.1177/1555412009360414.
• ———. 2012. “Do You Identify as a Gamer? Gender, Race, Sexuality, and Gamer Identity.” New Media & Society 14 (1): 28–44.
• Šisler, Vít. 2008. “Digital Arabs Representation in Video Games.” European Journal of Cultural Studies 11 (2): 203–20. doi:10.1177/1367549407088333.
• Steinkuehler, Constance A., and Dmitri Williams. 2006. “Where Everybody Knows Your (screen) Name: Online Games as ‘third Places.’” Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication 11 (4): 885–909.
• Taylor, T. L. 2008. “Becoming a Player: Networks, Structure, and Imagined Futures.” Beyond Barbie and Mortal Kombat: New Perspectives on Gender and Gaming, 51–65.
• Thornham, Helen. 2011. Ethnographies of the Videogame: Gender, Narrative and Praxis. Ashgate Publishing. http://books.google.com/books?hl=da&...whpe6fnQjnBiCA.
• Williams, Dmitri, Nicole Martins, Mia Consalvo, and James D. Ivory. 2009. “The Virtual Census: Representations of Gender, Race and Age in Video Games.” New Media & Society 11 (5): 815–34. doi:10.1177/1461444809105354.
• Zaremba, Jutta. 2012. “The Gender-Offensive: Female Gaming Cultures Between Shooters and Marketing.” In Computer Games and New Media Cultures, edited by Johannes Fromme and Alexander Unger, 443–63. Springer Netherlands. http://link.springer.com/chapter/10....-007-2777-9_28.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

I think there are two different things going on. One is a reasonable criticism of her work evaluating it on its own terms. This is perfectly fine, and healthy. Another is an unreasonable criticism aiming to dismiss her work because it's not perfect. This is really another form of concern trolling ("I'd totally agree with it but unfortunately it's imperfect so it's worthless. If only someone did it in a way that passes my murky requirements, until then let's not bring this up"). Being the only person arguing a valid point--or more importantly the most accessible voice--is extremely valuable even if their work does not match some of the literally most famous people in history who have also done social / cultural / media analysis and commentary (a criticism of her that has been made in these threads recently).

It's not like Sarkeesian's work is pretty good but not perfect. By the standards of video game criticism on YouTube it passes muster, sure. But by the standards of cultural criticism and argumentation more broadly it's depressing. And no, I'm not comparing her to "literally the most famous people in history who have done cultural analysis and commentary" - I'm comparing her to any graduate student at any well-regarded university.

Pro-tip: Find a contemporary academic article on "gender" and "video games". Use Google Scholar if you have to, or your academic library's search engine or DIGRA Students' ressource portal or ACADEMIA.EDU. Through this you will easily find a lot of stuff on gender and video game culture. Then look through the bibliographies of each article that you read and find cited articles and other relevant authors who study the field.

Since you are in need of it, I already did some of the work for you (this list includes racial aspects as well)

I know how to find academic articles. That is part of my job. I have hundreds of pages of academic literature that's directly relevant to my field to read per week, I'm not going to double my workload by keeping abreast of a completely unrelated field just because it pertains to one of my hobbies. No one else is either, barring obsessives and people for whom arguing about gender in video games is in itself a hobby. This is why it would be nice to have quality video game criticism in an accessible format, instead of the current distribution of quality video game criticism in an inaccessible format and low-quality video game criticism in an accessible format.

 

[Lime]

I know how to find academic articles. That is part of my job. I have hundreds of pages of academic literature that's directly relevant to my field to read per week, I'm not going to double my workload by keeping abreast of a completely unrelated field just because it pertains to one of my hobbies. No one else is either, barring obsessives and people for whom arguing about gender in video games is in itself a hobby. This is why it would be nice to have quality video game criticism in an accessible format, instead of the current distribution of quality video game criticism in an inaccessible format and low-quality video game criticism in an accessible format.

Well, if you want to avoid academic articles because of their inaccessibility or lack of time, I would suggest incredibly insightful authors like

• Mattie Brice
• Maddy Myers
• Kris Ligman
• Todd Harper
• Jenn Frank
• Liz Ryerson
• Zoya Street
• Cara Ellison
• Brianna Wu
• Celia Pearce
• Tracy Fullerton
• Samantha Allen
• Merritt Kopas
• Lana Polansky
• Kaitlin Tremblay
• Katherine Cross
• Sarah Wanencheck

This doesn't mean they should only be read because of their perspectives on gender and sexuality and identity (i.e. exocitization). They also write and make some great articles/games on all sorts of topics within video games that are worth reading. And some of them have difficulty getting positions in the industry, because of harassment and nepotism, so they could definitely also receive some money for their efforts and hard work.

Hell, if you think this is insurmountable to follow all these listed authors, simply check Critical Distance each week. They always provide great round-ups and collections around the web of video game related articles that ranges in academic and non-academic quality. Unfortunately CD is being harassed and attacked by gamers because of all this at the moment, so I am not sure how long the years-old site will continue.

 

[Nairume]

Usually when someone is told they can't do something, it serves as an impetus to prove that person wrong and do it anyway.

Or it serves as a confidence breaker that pushes them towards other fields because of the pressure they face for trying to go STEM.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Yeah, maybe if we shit talk Anita enough, it will inspire someone else to risk the same kind of treatment from the gaming community. It's a real motivator! Who wouldn't want to get involved in something like this where failing to meet an arbitrary standard results in death threats.

In video games there's basically only Sarkeesian doing a mediocre job and a bunch of impossible-to-locate academics doing a good job.

If only we could find them...Oh I guess they can be found easily.

I'm not going to double my workload by keeping abreast of a completely unrelated field just because it pertains to one of my hobbies. No one else is either, barring obsessives and people for whom arguing about gender in video games is in itself a hobby. This is why it would be nice to have quality video game criticism in an accessible format, instead of the current distribution of quality video game criticism in an inaccessible format and low-quality video game criticism in an accessible format.

Oh so it's not that they can't be found it's just that it takes too much time and effort to read the academic articles that purposefully meet the standards you desire. It's almost as if the standard of work you're demanding isn't translatable to short youtube videos that are quickly digestible. And I mean, this is just a hobby of yours, you wouldn't waste your time obsessing over gender in video games. I mean you hardly post in these types of threads right? I mean, if someone was to calculate how many posts you've made, it wouldn't be super high would it? Like, no way it be enough time to read some academic articles high?

 

[APF]

Why should I educate myself on a topic I am clearly passionate about when I can just concern troll my opponents for weeks instead? I think this thread has met its end. Good references though Lime, thanks.

 

[Brakke]

Usually when someone is told they can't do something, it serves as an impetus to prove that person wrong and do it anyway. We see that all the time in all areas and that includes women being told they can't do something to minorities being told they can't do it. I can see how that perception is oppressive, but it really shouldn't stop anyone from pursuing their interests, particularly if they earn good grades in STEM topics and can see for themselves that they can do it.

Isn't it also possible that girls/women tend to gravitate away from STEM fields for other reasons?

How do you justify that "usually"?

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Yeah, maybe if we shit talk Anita enough, it will inspire someone else to risk the same kind of treatment from the gaming community. It's a real motivator! Who wouldn't want to get involved in something like this where failing to meet an arbitrary standard results in death threats.

If only we could find them...Oh I guess they can be found easily.

Oh so it's not that they can't be found it's just that it takes too much time and effort to read the academic articles that purposefully meet the standards you want. It's almost as if the standard of work you're demanding isn't translatable to short youtube videos that are quickly digestible.

You can't imagine any happy compromise between what Sarkeesian is doing on YouTube and what academics are doing in journals? None at all? You just don't see how it would be possible to do a series of thirty-minute YouTube videos on the subject of women in games that had just a little bit more nuance and rigor to them, that were investigations rather than polemics?

And I mean, this is just a hobby of yours, you wouldn't waste your time obsessing over gender in video games. I mean you hardly post in these types of threads right? I mean, if someone was to calculate how many posts you've made, it wouldn't be super high would it? Like, enough time to read academic articles high?

I'm currently killing time instead of reading a book called Law, Society, and Culture in the Maghrib, 1300-1500. If I'm going to read academic articles on gaming I may as well read that book. The point of killing time is that you're killing time, not doing actual work.

Why should I educate myself on a topic I am clearly passionate about when I can just concern troll my opponents for weeks instead? I think this thread has met its end. Good references though Lime, thanks.

Isn't the point of Sarkeesian's video series to educate people? If the answer is for people to just go read the scholarly literature then why exactly is her video series so helpful?

 

[frequency]

I think a lot of the people arguing about the depth and methodology of her videos do in fact accept that there are legitimate issues with women's representation in video games, and view shallow, methodologically-dubious arguments as being actively counterproductive when it comes to making the industry better for everyone.

How is this counterproductive to making the industry better for everyone?

I see quite the opposite. I see developers analyzing their past works and speaking of change. I see gamers coming into these threads occasionally to say they learned something. I see more support for equality as a result of this video series than I have ever seen before from the gaming community.

Are Tim Shafer's and Neil Druckmann's support of her videos counterproductive to making the industry better for everyone?

 

[unbias]

Usually when someone is told they can't do something, it serves as an impetus to prove that person wrong and do it anyway. We see that all the time in all areas and that includes women being told they can't do something to minorities being told they can't do it. I can see how that perception is oppressive, but it really shouldn't stop anyone from pursuing their interests, particularly if they earn good grades in STEM topics and can see for themselves that they can do it.

Isn't it also possible that girls/women tend to gravitate away from STEM fields for other reasons?

I know these are old stats and things have probably changed, but still, women dont have to be in stem to be involved with game development. That said, many probably know better then me.

http://archives.igda.org/diversity/IGDA_DeveloperDemographics_Oct05.pdf

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Okay, out of the last 250 posts that Imru&#8217; al-Qays has made, dating from today back to August 25th, 208 of them were in gender-issue related threads such as "Gamers are over" "Gamers are dead" "Game supports more than two players" "Background decoration pt 2", etc.

So you spend approximately 83% of your time on GAF commenting in gender issue related threads and only 17% discussing video games.

Someone once told me that someone who does that might be:

obsessives and people for whom arguing about gender in video games is in itself a hobby.

 

[Lime]

Imru&#8217; al-Qays, I just gave you a buttload of resources and you don't even comment on it? And you're the poster who was talking about "epistemically closed" a couple of posts above?

Shit, you can even just google the academic authors of the listed articles to read their publicly disseminated work to find your unicorn of the bridge between esoteric academia and exoteric mainstream research. It's really that easy.

you're essentially constructing an epistemically-closed bubble for yourself

uh huh

 

[Uncle Rupee]

women dont have to be in stem to be involved with game development.

Of course not, but it certainly plays a role in certain categories like programming.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

Why should I educate myself on a topic I am clearly passionate about when I can just concern troll my opponents for weeks instead? I think this thread has met its end. Good references though Lime, thanks.

Speaking of trolling? Could you twist what he said any further. No, THIS is where the thread ends.

Okay, out of the last 250 posts that Imru&#8217; al-Qays has made, dating from today back to August 25th, 208 of them were in gender-issue related threads such as "Gamers are over" "Gamers are dead" "Game supports more than two players" "Background decoration pt 2", etc.

So you spend approximately 83% of your time on GAF commenting in gender issue related threads and only 17% discussing video games.

Someone once told me that someone who does that might be:

Now how bout you do the same for ALL his posts, see what your percentages come out to. I think you'll find they are wrong.

 

[Lowlander2]

Well, if you want to avoid academic articles because of their inaccessibility or lack of time, I would suggest incredibly insightful authors like

• Jenn Frank

• 
  
  Yeah, about that...

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

How is this counterproductive to making the industry better for everyone?

I see quite the opposite. I see developers analyzing their past works and speaking of change. I see gamers coming into these threads occasionally to say they learned something. I see more support for equality as a result of this video series than I have ever seen before from the gaming community.

I guess whether you think her videos are counterproductive will depend on the extent to which you think people take issue with them for valid reasons as opposed to rank sexism. I think there's a loud minority of rank sexists amidst a significant population of people who aren't convinced by her arguments simply because they're often not very good arguments. My first instinct upon watching her video was: "she's misusing Dragon Age." A lot of people have come along and said that they found her treatments of other games, including Bioshock and Red Dead, to be similarly problematic. This causes them to largely dismiss her project, as I have done, but perhaps also to become predisposed to dismiss future projects in a similar vein, which I like to think I have not done.

Of course, if you think that most of the Sarkeesian-skeptics are simply not likely to be convinced by anyone then I could see why my stance wouldn't make sense.

 

[Lime]

Yeah, about that...

Fuck. And Kris Ligman also seems to be jumping ship because of a recent rise in harassment (I wonder why /s).

Too many fallen people

 

[kirblar]

I think the conversation the videos spark is of far greater value than the videos themselves. Even if we were able to get the problematic misogynistic elements and "idiot threatening gamer" elements removed entirely from the discourse, leaving us with just reasonable discussion, I'm pretty sure the videos would still be lightning rods due to their ideological leanings, presentation, and the generally subjective nature of the gaming experience.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Finally got around to watching it. She actually changed my mind by the end of it, good video.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Okay, out of the last 250 posts that Imru&#8217; al-Qays has made, dating from today back to August 25th, 208 of them were in gender-issue related threads such as "Gamers are over" "Gamers are dead" "Game supports more than two players" "Background decoration pt 2", etc.

So you spend approximately 83% of your time on GAF commenting in gender issue related threads and only 17% discussing video games.

Someone once told me that someone who does that might be:

It's not like I joined Gaf just to talk about Sarkeesian. I've been here, posting regularly, for months. I find these debates to be pretty interesting and so I enjoy participating in them. I'm glad a place like this exists where people can have civil discussions about issues of gender in gaming, largely free of ridiculous misogyny and pop-feminist groupthink. My bad?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I guess whether you think her videos are counterproductive will depend on the extent to which you think people take issue with them for valid reasons as opposed to rank sexism. I think there's a loud minority of rank sexists amidst a significant population of people who aren't convinced by her arguments simply because they're often not very good arguments. My first instinct upon watching her video was: "she's misusing Dragon Age." A lot of people have come along and said that they found her treatments of other games, including Bioshock and Red Dead, to be similarly problematic. This causes them to largely dismiss her project, as I have done, but perhaps also to become predisposed to dismiss future projects in a similar vein, which I like to think I have not done.

Of course, if you think that most of the Sarkeesian-skeptics are simply not likely to be convinced by anyone then I could see why my stance wouldn't make sense.

I think the bolded part is what's been bothering me. Such dismissiveness over something that's actually bringing good progress and valuable perspective into the gaming culture and industry.

It just makes me doubt the sincerity of her detractors, whom are saying they are supporters of her cause, whilst all the while, and in very persistent and loud volumes, dismissing her work outright and branding them counter-productive.