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[kame-sennin]

Interesting article. It's too long to quote the entire thing, but these are the parts I found most interesting:

Overall, the attitudes and habits of sex buyers reveal them as men who dehumanize and commodify women, view them with anger and contempt, lack empathy for their suffering, and relish their own ability to inflict pain and degradation.

Farley found that sex buyers were more likely to view sex as divorced from personal relationships than nonbuyers, and they enjoyed the absence of emotional involvement with prostitutes, whom they saw as commodities. “Prostitution treats women as objects and not ... humans,” said one john interviewed for the study.

In their interviews, the sex buyers often voiced aggression toward women, and were nearly eight times as likely as nonbuyers to say they would rape a woman if they could get away with it. Asked why he bought sex, one man said he liked “to beat women up.” Sex buyers in the study committed more crimes of every kind than nonbuyers, and all the crimes associated with violence against women were committed by the johns.

Trafficked children often have histories similar to that of T.O.M. Research indicates that most prostitutes were sexually abused as girls, and they typically enter “the life” between the ages of 12 and 14. The majority have drug dependencies or mental illnesses, and one third have been threatened with death by pimps, who often use violence to keep them in line.

But the sex buyers in Farley’s study overlooked such coercion and showed little empathy for prostitutes’ experiences or their cumulative toll. Researchers and service providers consistently find high levels of posttraumatic stress disorder, depression, suicidal ideation, and other psychological problems among prostitutes. “It doesn’t matter whether it’s in a back alley or on silk sheets, legal or illegal—all kinds of prostitution cause extreme emotional stress for the women involved,” Farley says.

And yet johns prefer to view prostitutes as loving sex and enjoying their customers. “The sex buyers were way off in their estimates of the women’s feelings,” Farley reports. “In reality, the bottom line is that prostituted women are not enjoying sex, and the longer she’s in it, the less she enjoys sex acts—even in her real life, because she has to shut down in order to perform sex acts with 10 strangers a day, and she can’t turn it back on. What happens is called somatic dissociation; this also happens to incest survivors and people who are tortured.”

Estimates suggest that “for every john arrested for attempting to buy sex, there are up to 50 women in prostitution arrested,” Farley reports.

But the traditional double standard that punished women and forgave men is also being reevaluated. “It’s been accepted that this is something men will do, without any real thought about the victims,” says New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly, whose department recently started an antitrafficking unit and increased its sting operations against johns. “It was considered a victimless crime. But it certainly isn’t; we realize that young women are being victimized.”

During her years in prostitution, T.O.M. reports that the police often violated her and always treated her “as a criminal, not a victim. This is the only form of child abuse where the child is put behind bars,” says T.O.M., who has escaped prostitution and is now working as a youth advocate in California.

And this I did not expect:

Striking developments abroad are also influencing policies in the United States. In 1999 Sweden decided that prostitution was a form of violence against women and made it a crime to buy sex, although not to sell it. This approach dramatically reduced trafficking, whereas the legalization of prostitution in the Netherlands, Germany, and much of Australia led to an explosive growth in demand that generated an increase in trafficking and other crimes. Sweden’s success in dealing with the problem has persuaded other countries to follow suit. “The Swedish model passed in South Korea, Norway, and Iceland, and has been introduced in Israel and Mexico,” says Ramos.

Sex buyers are overwhelmingly male, and they purchase males as well as females. Whatever its form, the underlying question posed by prostitution remains the same: should people be entitled to buy other human beings for sexual gratification? If such ancient practices are to be curtailed, both johns and men who don’t buy sex will have to rethink their complicity, according to Ted Bunch, cofounder of A Call to Men, a national organization working to end violence against women and girls.

“This is the first generation of men that’s being held accountable for something men have always gotten away with, and that’s why you have such a backlash,” Bunch says. “Our social conditioning is to see women as objects, as property—that’s what commercial sexual exploitation is all about. It’s a multibillion-dollar industry; it makes more money than the NFL, the NBA, and Major League Baseball combined.”

Fighting that behemoth will require the participation of both sexes. “The system has been set up to blame women for the violence men perpetrate, and this has been seen as a women’s issue, so it’s easy for men not to get involved. But men’s silence about the violence men perpetrate is as much of a problem as the violence itself,” Bunch says. “Men feed the demand, and men have to eradicate the demand.”

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/07/17/the-growing-demand-for-prostitution.html

 

[ThisWreckage]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Maybe it's late, but how can one not buy sex but still be able to sell it? A prostitute can proposition someone but not the other way around? I can't say I follow the logic of that law.

 

[jamesinclair]

Maybe it's late, but how can one not buy sex but still be able to sell it? A prostitute can proposition someone but not the other way around? I can't say I follow the logic of that law.

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

 

[Trent Strong]

Well, Gaborn?

 

[ThisWreckage]

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

Yes, and it's brilliant. That's why so many other countries are adopting it.

 

[WAWAZA]

 

[I_D]

What a ridiculous study.

Prostitution is illegal almost everywhere. Of course those who seek it are more likely to be violent.


If it was legal and regulated like a massage parlor or something, I doubt the average customer would be a rape fan.

 

[kame-sennin]

Well, Gaborn?

I was in favor of legalization as well. I figured if it was legal and regulated, it would be easier to cut down on violence against women, slavery, and child abuse. But according to those statistics, that's not the case.

 

[Cereal KiIIer]

It's cheaper than a date and you are sure to score...

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

Because blowjobs feel good and tits are nice to look at?

 

[CrankyJay]

Marriage is just legalized prostitution any damn way.

 

[crimzonflame]

That writer definitely has an agenda.

 

[dem]

Marriage is just legalized prostitution any damn way.

Prostitutes put out

 

[krypt0nian]

Marriage is just legalized prostitution any damn way.

You're a real catch.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Stop being a scum bag and get a fucking girl friend.

 

[DominoKid]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

The cynic in me says that paying for dates and shit like that is the same thing in principle.

 

[SmokyDave]

Legalise, regulate, tax.

Stop being a scum bag and get a fucking girl friend.

You definitely have a handle on this complicated and nuanced issue.

 

[Zzoram]

Marriage is just legalized prostitution any damn way.

That's something a prostitute customer might think, but not a real man.

 

[Manmademan]

Stop being a scum bag and get a fucking girl friend.

but what if I want 2 or 3? cheaper to just get a hooker.

 

[Neuromancer]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

I don’t pay them for sex. I pay them to leave.

 

[Lionheart1337]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

Yes you do, you're just playing dumb.

Stop being a scum bag and get a fucking girl friend.

Those are too expensive. badumtis.jpg

 

[gokieks]

“We had big, big trouble finding nonusers,” Farley says. “We finally had to settle on a definition of non-sex-buyers as men who have not been to a strip club more than two times in the past year, have not purchased a lap dance, have not used pornography more than one time in the last month, and have not purchased phone sex or the services of a sex worker, escort, erotic masseuse, or prostitute.”

It seems their definition of "buying sex" is rather more broad than what I, and I assume many, people would have (i.e. paying for actual sex). Everyone who's watched porn is considered a buyer of sex?

 

[CrankyJay]

That's something a prostitute customer might think, but not a real man.

Not really. You go out on a date with a girl initially because of their looks, not their personality. So you're paying for dinner and movies, and hoping to get sex.

I see through your fake bullshit chivalry.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

What a ridiculous study.

Prostitution is illegal almost everywhere. Of course those who seek it are more likely to be violent.


If it was legal and regulated like a massage parlor or something, I doubt the average customer would be a rape fan.

Doesn't the study say that places have seen increased crime since it was legalized? Iwoudl tend to agree with you, but that statistic surprised me.

 

[Zzoram]

Not really. You go out on a date with a girl initially because of their looks, not their personality. So you're paying for dinner and movies, and hoping to get sex.

I see through your fake bullshit chivalry.

You said marriage. You marry someone because you're interested in a lot more than sex. Well, maybe not you, since all you seem to think women are good for is sex.

 

[krypt0nian]

Not really. You go out on a date with a girl initially because of their looks, not their personality. So you're paying for dinner and movies, and hoping to get sex.

I see through your fake bullshit chivalry.

You're the reason divorce stats are so high.

 

[CrankyJay]

You said marriage. You marry someone because you're interested in a lot more than sex. Well, maybe not you, since all you seem to think women are good for is sex.

When did I say that?

 

[Technosteve]

whats the difference between buying sex and selling sex in legal terms in sweden?

 

[Zzoram]

Sweden has it right. Stop arresting prostitutes, they're victims not criminals. Arrest the Johns, they're the ones creating the demand that results in more people being victimized and forced into prostitution.

 

[CrankyJay]

You're the reason divorce stats are so high.

This doesn't even make sense. I've been married for 4 years.

 

[Zzoram]

When did I say that?

When you said that marriage is legal prostitution.

 

[Lionheart1337]

When did I say that?

They will take and twist everything you say.

 

[krypt0nian]

This doesn't even make sense. I've been married for 4 years.

You have a shitty attitude about women. It makes perfect sense.

Marriage is just legalized prostitution any damn way.

I'm sure your wife is a real winner if she puts up with this shit.

 

[CrankyJay]

When you said that marriage is legal prostitution.

Not sure how you're mixing up too completely different things.

 

[Fenderputty]

Not really. You go out on a date with a girl initially because of their looks, not their personality. So you're paying for dinner and movies, and hoping to get sex.

I see through your fake bullshit chivalry.

First date somehow equals marriage now?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

This doesn't even make sense. I've been married for 4 years.

What the fuck kind of marriage are you in?

 

[CrankyJay]

You have a shitty attitude about women. It makes perfect sense.

No I don't.

 

[crimzonflame]

Sweden has it right. Stop arresting prostitutes, they're victims not criminals. Arrest the Johns, they're the ones creating the demand that results in more people being victimized and forced into prostitution.

What about the escorts that are independent and not forced to be in the trade?

 

[krypt0nian]

No I don't.

LOL

 

[Fenderputty]

What the fuck kind of marriage are you in?

One in which he views himself as a reapeat customer?

 

[CrankyJay]

First date somehow equals marriage now?

Ever heard of an engagement ring?

And LOL at all of you for thinking I'm being serious here. Funny to see White-Knight GAF jizz all over themselves to defend a perceived slight.

 

[krypt0nian]

One in which he views himself as a reapeat customer?

Maybe he actually married a whore? That would make the most sense.

 

[RoadHazard]

whats the difference between buying sex and selling sex in legal terms in sweden?

Buying is illegal, selling is not. So whenever prostitution takes place (no matter if the john or the prostitute initiates it), the john is the criminal.

 

[2th]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

You should rethink this if you ever see the clientele at a strip club. I was actually at one this past weekend for an old friends bachelor party, cliched i know but the best man planned this so who am i to argue when i am not even in the wedding party. Anyways, if you had seen some of the guys there you would completely understand why these men have to pay for women.

the weirdest thing though, was that there were actually 2 or 3 couples there together ogling strippers. and i do not mean couples where the woman is hit and bisexual, i mean the chick in the relationship was just downright ugly and probably bisexual. that or she was just there to make her husband/boyfriend happy while she couldnt. who know though.

 

[Zzoram]

What about the escorts that are independent and not forced to be in the trade?

They make up a small minority of the prostitutes. Do you punish all the victimized women and children because a few prostitutes aren't being pimped?

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think Sweden's law is the way to go...penalize the buyer rather than the women

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Ever heard of an engagement ring?

And LOL at all of you for thinking I'm being serious here. Funny to see White-Knight GAF jizz all over themselves to defend a perceived slight.

No, I thought it was a stupid throwaway joke until you doubled down on it.

 

[CrankyJay]

No, I thought it was a stupid throwaway joke until you doubled down on it.

I guess I can't have fun with you guys.

The sad part is someone was probably sitting behind their computer nodding their head in agreement but too chickenshit for fear of reprisal.

 

[Orayn]

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

Why should anyone go to jail if everyone is a willing participant and safe sex is practiced? Is it somehow wrong to voluntarily pay for sex, but not to sell it?