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[speculawyer]

I simply do not understand the concept of paying for sex or paying a woman to remove her clothes.

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[Zzoram]

You can make the same argument against the porn business. Are you against porn?

Kind of, but it's not an even comparison. The porn industry is much better regulated, and while many of the women in it may have been sexually abused as well, they are unlikely to be forced into making porn, since they all have to be registered to work in the business (at least in the US) and there is protection for children since porn actor age has to be proven.

Amateurs don't have to be registered, but they're also not making money, so they are probably just exhibitionists.

 

[Evlar]

The vast, vast, majority of prostitutes, strippers, or other "sex workers" are not forced into it by some evil man. There has never been any evidence to support such a ridiculous claim.

Is there any evidence to support your claim? Because, as far as claims go, it's pretty strong. The bolded one.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Those requirements are how much of the human trafficking in the world starts. Many people end up as prostitutes trying to get those things.

Not to be snarky but you're going to have to explain this.

 

[crimzonflame]

Kind of, but it's not an even comparison. The porn industry is much better regulated, and while many of the women in it may have been sexually abused as well, they are unlikely to be forced into making porn, since they all have to be registered to work in the business (at least in the US).

Amateurs don't have to be registered, but they're also not making money, so they are probably just exhibitionists.

Alot of them are tricked into the business, addicted to drugs, and 'forced' to perform acts with men they dont want to.

 

[Zzoram]

Alot of them are tricked into the business, addicted to drugs, and 'forced' to perform acts with men they dont want to.

Then the people doing this should be arrested, not the victim, just like with prostitution.

 

[Mudkips]

Is there any evidence to support your claim? Because, as far as claims go, it's pretty strong. The bolded one.

Google "World Cup Sex Slaves".
Google "Sex Slave Statistics".
Read actual statistics and see how data is collected.

Then decide which claim is stronger or needs more evidence.
Hint: The claim that sex slavery is a growing pandemic of epic proportions in western nations is the ridiculous claim.

 

[ReBurn]

Not to be snarky but you're going to have to explain this.

Read this.

Many people end up in sweatshops or other indentured states because they go to someone for help who promises to help them achieve a better life. They know that they need some sort of legal documentation, and people promise to help them get it in exchange for labor or other services.

The people get to the destination only to find out that they've been lied to. So instead of doing their time and getting their legal status, they end up abused and forgotten.

This is what I mean. No amount of legislation or regulation can stop this.

 

[Evlar]

Google "Sex Slave Statistics".
Read actual statistics and see how data is collected.

Then decide which claim is stronger or needs more evidence.

The very first link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/slaves/etc/stats.html

What do we really know about sex trafficking? Although trafficking of women and girls for sexual exploitation is a global problem, hard statistics on the numbers of women involved, and in which countries, are close to impossible to come by:

• It is an illegal, underground business, and it is difficult to extrapolate the scale of the problem from statistics on arrests and convictions, because many victims don't come forward for fear of retribution.

• The definition of "trafficking" has been controversial. There was no internationally accepted definition until the signing of the UN Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons in December 2000.

• Although numerous small studies have been done on various aspects of trafficking, much of the research doesn't distinguish between illegal migration and people smuggling and trafficking a person against her will. Research that does focus specifically on trafficking often doesn't distinguish between individuals trafficked for sexual exploitation and those trafficked for forced agricultural work or other types of labor.

This seems to debunk YOUR claim to have knowledge that, and I quote, 'The vast, vast, majority of prostitutes, strippers, or other "sex workers" are not forced into it by some evil man.' You simply claim that with no particular source.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

Wow, it sounds so, so, helpful and competent

The US could never think like this.

 

[jmdajr]

Seriously?

You really don't understand there are people out there who can't get laid. Ugly people, incredibly insecure people. They all need the sex too.

It is of my opinion that sex is a basic human need. You won't physically die without it, but I think mentally you can't be perfectly well adjusted. It's normal to want it and do what you need to to get by (without violating others people's rights etc). If you can be perfectly happy without or even thinking about out it then I think you are the minority.

Going back to the topic it's a shame that the crazy people have to ruin everything.

 

[Oozinator]

Unless there's some physical condition where lack of sex will lead to death I'm not sure that it is as much a need as much as it is a really strong desire. But I get what you're saying.

Society & media is jamming our brain with images of having sex and being in couple is "cool" while singles are loosers. Can you realize what this can do to people's minds ? Look at the rape & child sex crimes committed in prisons and churches.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Society & media is jamming our brain with images of having sex and being in couple is "cool" while singles are loosers. Can you realize what this can do to people's minds ? Look at the rape & child sex crimes committed in prisons and churches.

Sex is a biological imperative. It's wired into your brain, and no amount of religion, exercise, playstation, or drugs is going to make it just go away until you are no longer physically capable.

 

[jmdajr]

Society & media is jamming our brain with images of having sex and being in couple is "cool" while singles are loosers. Can you realize what this can do to people's minds ? Look at the rape & child sex crimes committed in prisons and churches.

Hmm I don't know. I think humanity has been wanting to fuck each other for centuries. We wouldn't have gotten this far without being honry mofos. It's normal. It's just recent that I think it's more normal to be single. I do think it's wrong to make fun of people who are alone alone (yet some folks put themselves in that situation..it's complicated) And I still can't understand religious organizations that are against masturbation. Let people do what they need to do without guilt to keep them from going nuts.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

I don't really ever hear stories about strippers/lap dancers/etc ever being abused or forced to work, and certainly nothing comparable to the horror stories you hear about prostitutes. I think it has to do with the legal status of it and how the women are viewed. Yes, the women are objectified, but they are also free of being touched or having anything done to them that is out of their control or against their wishes. If those same sorts of protections/respects were paid to prostitutes, and it was well regulated like strip clubs are, it would certainly go a long way toward improving things, I would imagine.

Quite frankly I see no reason to prohibit a man/woman from selling/buying sex if they feel like it. The issue comes up with how the women are treated because of the circumstances they are in. Shouldn't we try to fix those unhealthy circumstances rather than police the ways in which people want to behave when it's consensual by both parties?

 

[karasu]

I don’t pay them for sex. I pay them to leave.

hahahahaha

 

[Bento]

I don't really have much to add to this topic besides having lived in a nation with legalized prostitution (Norway) but I thought I could throw out some thoughts. Should probably say though that I don't really mind that people are willing to pay for sex nor that there are people willing to sell themselves, as long as it is consensual and only adults involved of course.

Now with that said. There seems to be a common misconception with legalized prostitution regarding who will be providing the service. In Sweden the assumption I had heard in debates was that the common prostitute before and after a legalization would be a White Swedish female, and the debates and those that participate was shaped with that in mind. That's why it was kind of jarring to arrive in Oslo and see that absolutely every hooker in the city, with no exception, were of African descent. I don't mean Immigrants turning to prostitution but Nigerians imported for the sole purpose of being sold for sex, usually under shitty terms and conditions. It was really quite ridiculous with hookers at times outnumbering the amount of civilians at Carl-Johan during night times, most of them being enormously intrusive to boot. And I can't even imagine how shit it must have been to be a female of darker complexion during those times.

This is not really an argument against prostitution but after living in Oslo for 3 years (in that time they eventually made prostitution illegal) I would argue that if it ever was to be legalized I would make sure to make it illegal to be selling sex in public at least. It's frankly just fucking nasty, I definitely saw and heard some creepy shit that would have been much more suitable over a phone call or in an internet chat :S

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Read this.

Many people end up in sweatshops or other indentured states because they go to someone for help who promises to help them achieve a better life. They know that they need some sort of legal documentation, and people promise to help them get it in exchange for labor or other services.

The people get to the destination only to find out that they've been lied to. So instead of doing their time and getting their legal status, they end up abused and forgotten.

This is what I mean. No amount of legislation or regulation can stop this.

I think there is a fine line between people seeking a better life and a green card in and of themselves, and people seeking those things because they want to be legal sex workers.

From that article:

To understand why, let's examine what we can call the Law of Black Markets. We see many instances of that law. When government attempts to forbid a peaceful activity that people want to engage in, that activity will continue despite the law — but under more horrendous conditions than previously. A mode of peaceful behavior does not vanish from society simply because government decrees that it must.

Take the prohibition of alcohol in the 1920s. People didn't stop drinking liquor, wine, and beer. To many people, drinking was a perfectly legitimate activity. That judgment didn't change when the Constitution was amended to make the production and sale of booze illegal. But something did change with Prohibition: the industry moved into the underworld. Organized crime grew. Violence connected with the trade abounded. Law enforcement was corrupted by the large black-market profits that reflected the risks of making and distributing contraband alcohol. Of course, the power of government grew, and civil liberties eroded.

This is the standard story with any prohibition. It is true today of drugs. If some people get their way and outlaw tobacco, the same will be true of cigarettes.

This article is arguing that absurd immigration limitations drive people towards inhumane human traffickers.

My stance is that criminalizing prostitution simply leads to it being a seedier, more dangerous industry. It's the law of black markets. People aren't going to stop paying for sex or watching porn just because the government says it's not going to tolerate it, because most people view it as a harmless vice of consensual adults.

Sweden's stance is a good start in my opinion - they've decriminalized it, allowing women to be more visible in their profession (increasing their safety), and apparently tapered demand. However, it's naive to think that the reduction in trafficking to Sweden is a net negative on crime - these traffickers may have simply redirected their business to more easily profitable markets or become more careful in their methods. Conversely, in countries where trafficking is "up" they may have simply become more brazen. Do you really think that people just started having sex less because a law was passed?

 

[The Albatross]

If only there were a demand for Newsweek........

 

[FairyD]

Stop being a scum bag and get a fucking girl friend.

Could you write a how-to?

 

[The Albatross]

Society & media is jamming our brain with images of having sex and being in couple is "cool" while singles are loosers. Can you realize what this can do to people's minds ? Look at the rape & child sex crimes committed in prisons and churches.

Man, not to be a media lackey, but... having sex is cool.

 

[numble]

Google "World Cup Sex Slaves".
Google "Sex Slave Statistics".
Read actual statistics and see how data is collected.

Then decide which claim is stronger or needs more evidence.
Hint: The claim that sex slavery is a growing pandemic of epic proportions in western nations is the ridiculous claim.

You should research the brothels attached to every mid-end hotel in China.

 

[Cousteau]

Pimpin aint easy
It's hard out here for a pimp
P.I.M.P

 

[Raistlin]

What a ridiculous study.

Prostitution is illegal almost everywhere. Of course those who seek it are more likely to be violent.


If it was legal and regulated like a massage parlor or something, I doubt the average customer would be a rape fan.

So anyone that does something illegal is automatically more likely to be violent?

eg. if someone smokes some weed they're a rape fan? Gateway drug indeed

 

[Raistlin]

Not really. You go out on a date with a girl initially because of their looks, not their personality. So you're paying for dinner and movies, and hoping to get sex.

I see through your fake bullshit chivalry.

I should really say something here but I won't

 

[Ikael]

Legalise, regulate, tax.

This, pretty much.

 

[googleplex]

That's the problem, the prostitutes are not "willing", but the Johns love to pretend that they are to feel better about themselves. Prostitutes are almost always people who were sexually abused as children and then later addicted to drugs and pimped out. Just because they're not fighting off the Johns doesn't mean they want to be there. They're traumatized endentured slaves.

This is Fucking Bullshit.

 

[dskillzhtown]

I am trying to see what the title of the article has to do with the content. Seems really mis-titled to get hits/reads.

My thought is that prostitution has been underground for so long that it is deeply intertwined with trafficking, drugs, abuse, etc. So making it legal won't exactly get rid of those elements, but what it will do is offer the customer a chance to use a service with the idea that everything is legal and this woman is here of her own free will. Those that don't care about that will continue to go to the unregulated brothels.

I really don't get why stripping and lapdances are legal, but prostitution isn't.

 

[kame-sennin]

They aren't very specific on that point, aside from noticing the increase in trafficking. I would think that making it sternly regulated would at least get a good chunk of the girls off the street, and help them keep tabs on abusive assholes much easier.

Imagine if, every time you had to pay for sex, you had to walk by a security camera, show ID, and pay with a credit/debit card? What if you needed a license to be a prostitute? What if their wages were taxed?

There would still exploitation, there would still be creepers trying to rough girls up, but these guys are going to try and find "off the grid" choking/rape/smacking jollies no matter how much you prosecute them. It would be better to clean it up for the vast majority of customers and prostitutes.

This is what I thought, but the article makes interesting points to the contrary:

“Over time, as a result of their prostitution and pornography use, sex buyers reported that their sexual preferences changed and they sought more sadomasochistic and anal sex,” the study reported.

“Prostitution can get you to think that things you may have done with a prostitute you should expect in a mutual loving relationship,” said one john who was interviewed. Such beliefs inspire anger toward other women if they don’t comply, impairing men’s ability to sustain relationships with nonprostitutes.

Sex buyers often prefer the license they have with prostitutes. “You’re the boss, the total boss,” said another john. “Even us normal guys want to say something and have it done no questions asked. No ‘I don’t feel like it.’ No ‘I’m tired.’ Unquestionable obedience. I mean that’s powerful. Power is like a drug.”

Many johns view their payment as giving them unfettered permission to degrade and assault women. “You get to treat a ho like a ho,” one john said. “You can find a ho for any type of need—slapping, choking, aggressive sex beyond what your girlfriend will do.”

I didn't want to post this quote in the OP because I thought a lot of people here might FLIP OUT that the research suggests pornography might lead to violence against women. But I think the main point they're trying to make is that sexually objectifying women changes men's perception of women. The research seems to suggest that "sex buying" has a corrosive effect on men as well as women, encouraging them to be more violent. It makes a certain amount of sense. If you enter into a customer relationship with a woman that makes it clear the woman's only purpose is to serve as a fuck hole, it's going to have a dehumanizing effect. If you treat someone as less than human, over time, you might start to see them that way as well. The same thing happens to soldiers in war. The problem with legalization is that it introduces this corrosive situation to law abiding men who would not have engaged in these behaviors otherwise.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

This helps protect those working in the brothels, but by the same token it also enables prostitution by allowing more prostitutes to freely advertise their 'services', hence increasing demand and drawing more men into criminality.

 

[Zaptruder]

This is what I thought, but the article makes interesting points to the contrary:



I didn't want to post this quote in the OP because I thought a lot of people here might FLIP OUT that the research suggests pornography might lead to violence against women. But I think the main point they're trying to make is that sexually objectifying women changes men's perception of women. The research seems to suggest that "sex buying" has a corrosive effect on men as well as women, encouraging them to be more violent. It makes a certain amount of sense. If you enter into a customer relationship with a woman that makes it clear the woman's only purpose is to serve as a fuck hole, it's going to have a dehumanizing effect. If you treat someone as less than human, over time, you might start to see them that way as well. The same thing happens to soldiers in war. The problem with legalization is that it introduces this corrosive situation to law abiding men who would not have engaged in these behaviors otherwise.

Shit is complicated as fuck.

Sexbots a possible solution, or another path to damnation?

 

[BobbyRobby]

Making prostitution legal for sellers only is so sexist and stupid. make it legal for both parties. women are way too coddled by legal systems.

 

[qcf x2]

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

That's just dumb. So if the pimp (or someone else) says a woman should kill somebody and she does, she shouldn't get in trouble because someone told her to? Brilliant. Also, if a citizen doesn't want to sell themselves for sex, they don't have to. It's a free country, call the cops if someone is threatening you upon refusal. Citizens who are hookers usually choose to be hookers. Someone should not be sent to jail because they want to pay for sex. That is not "arrest(ing) the right person."

 

[way more]

Making prostitution legal for sellers only is so sexist and stupid. make it legal for both parties. women are way too coddled by legal systems.

Ha. I'm going to guess that just as many prostitutes are men.

 

[WARCOCK]

That's the problem, the prostitutes are not "willing", but the Johns love to pretend that they are to feel better about themselves. Prostitutes are almost always people who were sexually abused as children and then later addicted to drugs and pimped out. Just because they're not fighting off the Johns doesn't mean they want to be there. They're traumatized endentured slaves.

Derp.

 

[blu]

Quit playing dumb.

Not everyone has the time, charm and/or looks to get a woman to put out whenever they need it.


Im in london for a weekend.....alone you bet ur ass im calling up an escort...sex with no strings attached from a eastern European woman clearly out of my league...yes please.

Part of the problem, dude.

 

[YoungHav]

some of you asshats really hate women.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

some of you asshats really hate women.

It's ok cause it's not racism

 

[JGS]

The very first link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/slaves/etc/stats.html
This seems to debunk YOUR claim to have knowledge that, and I quote, 'The vast, vast, majority of prostitutes, strippers, or other "sex workers" are not forced into it by some evil man.' You simply claim that with no particular source.

Anytime someone says google it, it backfires.

It's semantics anyway since even if the vast, vast, vast majority of women actually are seeking out prostitution for a career, this doesn't mean they actually remain in it because they want to.

Its to send the right person to jail.

That is, if a women is selling sex because her pimp is forcing her too...shes not a criminal.

Guy buying the sex, that is enabling the pimp IS the criminal.

(Pimping, obviously, is also illegal)

Basically, it takes the approach that making it all illegal is stupid because it will never end. This just gives the polcie the tools to arrest the right person.

Big problem I have with this is the hooker is enabling the pimp far more unless:
a. She gives up the pimp
b. She faces jail time for not giving up the pimp.

The pimp remains in business and collecting the spoils.

 

[kame-sennin]

Marriage is just legalized prostitution any damn way.

The cynic in me says that paying for dates and shit like that is the same thing in principle.

This is something that's said often, usually as a joke, but I don't think people realize what it says about a person who believes this. The premise is basically that the only reason you would have a romantic encounter with a woman is for sex; friendship and companionship are completely meaningless, so anything you say or do to a woman is just a means to achieving your only goal - having sex. It's a startlingly detached way of looking at the opposite sex.

 

[JGS]

Well, anyone who is looking to marriage as a sex paradise is going to be set up for disappointment or divorced anyway.

It certainly occurs but is rarely the focus whether you want it to be or not.

Better to stick with the hooker action if you're that big of a hornball.

 

[RegularCitizen]

This article clearly doesn't care about people like me who are not beautiful.

 

[kame-sennin]

Derp.

This is Fucking Bullshit.

What are you basing your opinion on? According to the article:

But the sex buyers in Farley’s study overlooked such coercion and showed little empathy for prostitutes’ experiences or their cumulative toll. Researchers and service providers consistently find high levels of posttraumatic stress disorder, depression, suicidal ideation, and other psychological problems among prostitutes. “It doesn’t matter whether it’s in a back alley or on silk sheets, legal or illegal—all kinds of prostitution cause extreme emotional stress for the women involved,” Farley says.

And yet johns prefer to view prostitutes as loving sex and enjoying their customers. “The sex buyers were way off in their estimates of the women’s feelings,” Farley reports. “In reality, the bottom line is that prostituted women are not enjoying sex, and the longer she’s in it, the less she enjoys sex acts—even in her real life, because she has to shut down in order to perform sex acts with 10 strangers a day, and she can’t turn it back on. What happens is called somatic dissociation; this also happens to incest survivors and people who are tortured.

 

[way more]

What are you basing your opinion on? According to the article:

If anything I blame the prostitutes. If they weren't so sexually aggressive they wouldn't be preying on our normally morally upstanding and devout man-citizens. And then you have the whore judges who make laws protecting their own. How can righteous man last in that world.

 

[LegendofJoe]

This article clearly doesn't care about people like me who are not beautiful.

Do what I did and lower your standards, hopefully you'll be surprised by the results.