This is true for all racers?
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
This is true for all racers?
TheAdmiester
Member
I'd say so for most. Driveclub is the only one I can think of where the reflections are accurate without being interior view.
Driveclub uses the realtime cubemap for its mirror view as well.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
For me so far it's
Gets > dc > forza. >>> the crew
Cars paint and look is quite better in gt and I definitely prefer the look and lighting a lot more in gts.
But I'd still rather have a new ms right now
Gets > dc > forza. >>> the crew
Cars paint and look is quite better in gt and I definitely prefer the look and lighting a lot more in gts.
But I'd still rather have a new ms right now
TheAdmiester
Member
I thought the mirrors used SSR when you aren't on interior camera?
What are gets and ms?
Far too small of a surface to be significant enough to have SSR, that too only when looked from the outside.
Not to mention you'll get inaccurate or no reflections the moment the camera starts going perpendicular to the mirror.
Adam Tyner
Member
I think he means "Gran Turismo Sport", and that "gets" is some autocorrect hiccup. As for "ms"...MotorStorm?
No. It's not even a "fall back to cubemap when ray miss" thing, they just always use the cubemap.
TheAdmiester
Member
Interesting, I thought SSR was just "automatically" used on the mirrors since the car's body already has it. How do the cubemaps work to allow it to reflect other dynamic objects?
It's a realtime cubemap. A (simplified, in this case) render of the scene from a camera placed at the location of your car, created new each frame.
So the Driveclub mirror would make the same mistake as the Forza shot?
Yes.
Interesting, I wonder what the first game to reflect your car in your mirrors will be.
Do you think its possible this gen?
That actually makes me appreciate the Forza effect more, which looked decent but not as detailed as Driveclubs windshield rain.
The rain physics can look pretty great in Forza.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Mr Noobcraft/video/17769589
TheAdmiester
Member
Not really part of the face-off but I have a question since it's a new gen game.
Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo has some pretty nice materials and lighting on everything. I can't quite tell if it's using PBR, can anyone else tell just by looking at it? Here's an example:
Can't tell if it's just PBR or high specular on everything combined with nice normal maps. It definitely has SSR (looking at the reflections in puddles, they disappear if the origin object is off screen) so PBR might not be too crazy.
Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo has some pretty nice materials and lighting on everything. I can't quite tell if it's using PBR, can anyone else tell just by looking at it? Here's an example:
Can't tell if it's just PBR or high specular on everything combined with nice normal maps. It definitely has SSR (looking at the reflections in puddles, they disappear if the origin object is off screen) so PBR might not be too crazy.
TheAdmiester
Member
Huh, this is new to me.
Forza's mirrors ARE actually real time when you're on exterior view, or at least they are on PC.
The AI cars are visible in your exterior-view mirrors in gameplay of course, it's just easier to get a picture of it in photomode.
Forza's mirrors ARE actually real time when you're on exterior view, or at least they are on PC.
The AI cars are visible in your exterior-view mirrors in gameplay of course, it's just easier to get a picture of it in photomode.
The perspective is bad, though.Huh, this is new to me.
Forza's mirrors ARE actually real time when you're on exterior view, or at least they are on PC.
The AI cars are visible in your exterior-view mirrors in gameplay of course, it's just easier to get a picture of it in photomode.
Forza is clearly just using the same trick as many other games.
TheAdmiester
Member
Oh I know that, but no game does it 100% right. I was just certain that Forza didn't use anything but cubemaps for exterior view mirrors so this came as a surprise.
Agreed, they haven't even said if they are adding a slider in a patch either..shame.
I don't get it. It looks like a cubemap to me, hence the incorrect perspective.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Yeah but on the other hand the tiled green texture that's supposed to pass for grass is hideous
TheAdmiester
Member
Cubemaps generally change perspective when the camera moves from the car, these mirrors are essentially like picture in picture where they don't change regardless of how the camera sees them.
Huh? You seem to contradict yourself here.
My understanding of cubemaps is that the game will render a static point of view (looking straight behind the car), and use it for the mirrors whatever the perspective.
And I don't see anything in your picture hinting that FM is doing it differently.
TheAdmiester
Member
What I'm saying is that cubemaps will shift depending on your perspective of them, which is more like a "real" reflection even if they don't usually include dynamic objects. If you stand in front of a mirror and circle around it, what you see in the mirror will change because the light is bouncing at you - that's what I'm talking about.
If you walk around a TV screen in the same way your perspective doesn't change what you see in it because what it's displaying doesn't depend on your viewing angle. What I mean is that Forza's mirrors (as with pCARS, GT, and I assume Driveclub) are like that TV analogy. They provide a true dynamic "reflection" because they're essentially just picture-in-picture, but they're inaccurate because your angle doesn't change what they show like a real one would.
TL;DR: The way it does mirrors are better in one way (reflecting everything) but worse in another way (no perspective shifting). Cubemaps are worse in one way (usually static objects only) but better the other way (perspective/reflection angle)
It doesn't look that bad, actually.
Think about it. When you're driving, you are able to see the bottom of the steering wheel if you're sitting in a normal seating position in the driver's seat. It doesn't look too unrealistic. The only thing that I wish is that the steering wheel in Forza were to have a bit more weight to its look.
Jamesways
Member
Forza desperately needs settings like pCARS to adjust the seat position. You can map them to any button combinations to do it on the fly.
It's a great feature more console games should employ.
If we were talking about a VR game then this reasoning would be sound. We're not though, and a TV screen generally represents a very small portion of what would be visible in real life, and attempting to force too much into it just makes you seem further away.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Hoped with Apex there'd be a fuss over the fov and lack of camera options. You can't choose such extreme camera positions and expect it to suit everyone.
TylerDurden4321
Member
Me too...
but maybe the outrage ("this could be SO GOOD, IF JUST...!") comes when they patch in wheel support (and maybe for older wheels as well, who knows)
TheAdmiester
Member
Wasn't that just using the multimonitor settings to pretend you had 3 monitors and as a result it would increase the FOV? It's a bit more of a workaround than proper support so the fact that it's gone isn't huge.
TheAdmiester
Member
Now that we've got some Horizon 3 footage that isn't compressed to hell and back we might as well discuss it here.
http://news.xbox.com/wp-content/upl...EditorialUseOnly_Part1of2_1080p30_ST_H264.mp4
Looks incredible. The lush environments certainly help and it seems that T10/PG have finally nailed their paint shaders because the cars look more real than ever now.
http://news.xbox.com/wp-content/upl...EditorialUseOnly_Part1of2_1080p30_ST_H264.mp4
Looks incredible. The lush environments certainly help and it seems that T10/PG have finally nailed their paint shaders because the cars look more real than ever now.
Self_Destructive
Member
FH3 is the best looking racing game period. So beautiful.
TheAdmiester
Member
Agreed. I still can't figure out what they've changed on the cars that makes it look so right this time. People are saying something about cloud reflections, did the cars not reflect the clouds in FH2?
It is drop dead gorgeous. Really sold on Australia now, but still hope we get Norway next.
drotahorror
Member
Period? I'd say there's a few that still look better. Driveclub is still king to me as well.
FH3 might be the best looking 60fps open world racer though.
TheAdmiester
Member
Yeah, it has even more of an advantage on PC.
Assuming it's still running 4xMSAA 30fps on the console version it'll still be the console IQ king, but running at 4k60 with all of the settings ramped up will be nothing short of magical.
It's the licence plates. Really. Just that make the cars look more palpable.
TheAdmiester
Member
Those are a great touch, especially being customisable, but I meant the actual lighting on the cars. It's way more natural this time around, probably the best I've seen in a game yet.
I read somewhere that they literally scanned the australian sky for day and night. That and improved lightning to match the skyboxes must make a big diference when compared with FH2. And I agree, its looks waay more natural this time.
TheAdmiester
Member
Yeah, that was on the reveal, something about scanning with 12k HDR cameras or something like that.
And tell me about it, that sunset during the gameplay reveal looked beautiful. It looks like everything goes red when it's raining and the sun goes down which is amazing.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
I respectfully disagree.