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[NoctisVsStar]

It's not like we've had several trailers, long gameplay demos, lots of kojima stations, lots of merchandising including parterships with brands and stuff... right?
I'm sure that a good amount of money of that $80m is already been restored thanks to GZ, not to mention the GwG and PS+ deals.

And even if the game is still too expensive for Konami, in no way justifies the terrible way of handling this whole situation. Fuck Konami.

Trailers and those gameplay videos are for the hardcore fanbase, but what about the casual gamer who has no idea what MGS is? For instance, here in NYC we had this in Times Square and not to mention the subway system and buses around the city.

I've seen destiny, nba2k, cod and a bunch of other games except MGS. The only time you see MGS is when you walk passby a gamestop which is sad, yet you have no idea what the game is about cause you only see BB face like he's posing for an album cover. Kojima and MGS deserve better.. #fucKonami still day one tho.

 

[funkystudent]

Do we know when Konami put these restrictions on KP?

How much of MGSV's development has been spent in those conditions?

 

[SomTervo]

Do we know when Konami put these restrictions on KP?

How much of MGSV's development has been spent in those conditions?

Someone earlier ITT said around March this year is when everything started. I'd bet it's been like this for closer to a year.

If we say the game's been in development for four, maybe five, years, then most of the game's development was not conducted under these conditions.

 

[viHuGi]

So after MGS V ships can Kojima moves to Sony?

 

[NoctisVsStar]

So after MGS V ships can Kojima moves to Sony?

If he wants yeah.. however, i see him forming his own studios like platinum games and getting funds from either sony or ms is they want an exclusive ip for instance.

 

[R_thanatos]

Isn't it harder to make a game without the internet? I couldn't imagine programming without being able to look things up.

Yep , so much difficult. Human memory is what it is ( not that perfect ) so when you reach an hurdle ( and it happen often ) being able to look things up and clear your minds of doubts is faster and very effective.

you can do it without internet of course, but internet 's just faster.

 

[BadWolf]

So after MGS V ships can Kojima moves to Sony?

Seems he's required to stay there till around December of this year.

 

[KarasuEXE]

HAYTER CONFIRMED

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

80 millions for a Metal Gear game is a bargain considering Destiny costed 500 millions...

Only people without read comprehension continue to spout this bullshit 500 million dollar figure for a single game. If that were remotely true, everyone associated with the project would be fired.

AIve said this before, but what Kojima had at Konami was simply insane and no way he gets that anywhere else. That said, To fall from that and have him endure this bullshit until he can legally leave is just so embarrassing. Konami should be ashamed.

 

[KarmaCow]

That 80 million for development only is ridiculous, I gotta wonder where Kojima will land after this.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

It's presumably the entire project's budget. It will probably still be profitable, but not nearly as profitable as they want for having investing 10 billion yen, especially when they're comparing it to their social game margins or even to having invested that money for seven years in the stock market.

It's about opportunity cost. Now, there's an argument that says this was an upfront investment that could have paid off notably over time through lower budgets on future iterations along with sales base expansion, but it's not something Konami appears to be interested in.

but who would trust Kojima to not R&D another engine given that he's on his, what, 5th engine for MGSV? Maybe sixth depending on what they used for the PSP games.

I can't exactly fault Konami for not thinking it's worth it to continue to work with Kojima. That they're going about this in a terrible way is another things, though.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Prior to its September release, Kojima has been "incarcerated" in his office.

Eh, I hope this isn't the literal interpretation of the word =/

Only people without read comprehension continue to spout this bullshit 500 million dollar figure for a single game. If that were remotely true, everyone associated with the project would be fired.

I believe it, ATVI executives have in the past backed it.

“To put that $500 million in context, that’s the whole entirety of the game. That’s development, manufacturing, marketing and so forth,” he said. “It sounds like a big amount but it doesn’t just fuel one aspect.

http://www.vg247.com/2014/09/09/destiny-released-ps4-xbox-one-500-million/

Anyways, 80m for MGS may be high historically for the franchise but given the development climate these days, it's not that bad, plus Konami will surely profit. $80m is still about a 3m break even point roughly?

EDIT: Ah that's without marketing? So say $100m with their more restrained marketing effort of late? About 4m copies to break even? (very rough numbers in my head) Ok, it'd be tight.

 

[CambriaRising]

Crazy. The making of documentary is going to be interesting considering all this.

It will be completely white-washed of any of this drama.

 

[Delusibeta]

They still have their health clubs and mobile franchises, and even if pachislot itself loses popularity due to more lenient gambling laws, they already have the infrastructure to move into traditional slot machines domestically.

I expect that moving to traditional slots would be the overall gameplan, considering they already have a substantial slot machine business in Las Vegas.

 

[Pro from Dover]

Originally Posted by Nikkei

For more than four months, personal computers used by the workers of the production department have been cut off from the Internet. The talented engineers have been cut off from the outside world and left in the lurch. Hideo Kojima, 51, who heads the department, has refrained from airing his personal views online.

Reads like Kojima has taken away the Internet. He was VP for many years, dollars to donuts he is quite accountable for everything Konami is today. I'll wait til the tell all "Konami V Kojima: the Good Parts Version".

 

[Angelcurio]

Yes, it's obviously insane. I just wanted to clarify what that meant.


To be clear, this is not true, regardless of what a regional manager stated.

$80 million isn't insanely out there for a game, but it's still on the more expensive side, especially when you consider that it's also only $80 million because of rather unfavorable currency conversions right now.

That's still not a reason to treat your employees like this. If you're unhappy, you either just have a re-org or shut down the studio and provide outplacement assistance like a normal company.

Even though 80 million is somewhat expensive for a game, it isn't that big of a sum when you take into account that it is being developed for 5 different consoles (PS4, PS3, XO, X360 and PC), had a paid demo that sold at least 2 million copies (Ground Zeroes), and includes Engine Depelopment. The sad part of the story is that all the engine money is going down the toilet due to the studio closure.

 

[xzeldax3]

Stress levels must have been high for a long time. I couldn't imagine working in that environment.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Trailers and those gameplay videos are for the hardcore fanbase, but what about the casual gamer who has no idea what MGS is? For instance, here in NYC we had this in Times Square and not to mention the subway system and buses around the city.

I've seen destiny, nba2k, cod and a bunch of other games except MGS. The only time you see MGS is when you walk passby a gamestop which is sad, yet you have no idea what the game is about cause you only see BB face like he's posing for an album cover. Kojima and MGS deserve better.. #fucKonami still day one tho.

That's been a problem with leadership at all the big J-3rd party publishers the last decade: atrophied foreign branches with play-by-ear strategies RIGHT as PR and marketing became massive players in echo chambers stating "what gaming was and what is good in gaming". There was an article recently by the new head honcho of Sega talkign about how much they learned from Atlus about how to sell and connect with fans and not-yet-fans, in fact.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Sounds like a trash company. MGS V will certainly be the last game I ever buy from these guys.

 

[DeuceGamer]

Maybe MGS will be saved by Konami licensing it out like they are with the game Nintendo is making. Kojima may still have a small chance of working on MGS. At least there is some hope, right?...right?

 

[Svartafaran]

Wow, and I thought the working conditions for Activision and EA were bad, Konami is straight up draconian.

How are those?

 

[Slowdive]

It will be completely white-washed of any of this drama.

Yep, that's why it'll be interesting to see how they go about it. I bet there won't be much if at all recent footage like the MGS4 one leading up to it going gold.

 

[DangerMouse]

That $80 million figure also includes the creation of a brand new engine iirc, that they were going to use for the new Silent Hill etc.

Also, MGSV looks to be a pretty huge game and looks excellent with that trademark KojiPro attention to detail.

Agreed.

And it would have been an impressive long-term engine from the looks of it.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I can't wait for A) Kojima's tell-all about his treatment, and B) his eventual Kickstarter campaign.

You just read about a guy who spend 80 million dollars on a single project, and you want him to do a KS? Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Agreed.

And it would have been an impressive long-term engine from the looks of it.

The engine is even more impressive considering that MGSV is cross gen. I always forget that, and the gameplay seems next-gen.

 

[Shadow_Lord]

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

You just read about a guy who spend 80 million dollars on a single project, and you want him to do a KS? Some people just want to watch the world burn.



The engine is even more impressive considering that MGSV is cross gen. I always forget that, and the gameplay seems next-gen.

I just want more of this confirmable scuttlebutt.

 

[The Silver]

Is there a reason Konami didn't wait until the game was finished and then fire Kojima's ass and kick him out the door? Seems like it would be better to blindside him and rush him out rather than keep a bunch of pissed off people around. I don't know how these companies work.

 

[KingV]

Eh, I hope this isn't the literal interpretation of the word =/



I believe it, ATVI executives have in the past backed it.



http://www.vg247.com/2014/09/09/destiny-released-ps4-xbox-one-500-million/

Anyways, 80m for MGS may be high historically for the franchise but given the development climate these days, it's not that bad, plus Konami will surely profit. $80m is still about a 3m break even point roughly?

EDIT: Ah that's without marketing? So say $100m with their more restrained marketing effort of late? About 4m copies to break even? (very rough numbers in my head) Ok, it'd be tight.

I am sure there are plenty of companies lined up to fund the next Kojima game.

He's probably the biggest name in gaming this side of Miyamoto.

 

[MrCunningham]

wtf

Basically he is obligated to still work at Konami, but they give him nothing to do so he just sits at his desk all day twiddling his thumbs and posting movie news on his twitter account. Pretty sure it is going to stay like this until December.

 

[Loakum]

Is that even legal?

Yes. Security escort, and having cameras follow a terminated employee around is pretty common, even in the US. The thing different in this case, Kojima is still allowed on Konami property.

 

[crazyrabbits]

Yes. Security escort, and having cameras follow a terminated employee around is pretty common, even in the US. The thing different in this case, Kojima is still allowed on Konami property.

For someone being terminated in a day, sure, but for several months?

 

[Augemitbutter]

i hope the mobile bubble will get you soon, konami.

i loved your devs. now fuck off with your dictatorship.

 

[bearythebear]

I wonder what kinda contract Hideo Kojima has signed. Is it possible for a lot of Kojima Productions people to quit after MGS5, and move over to some brand new Hideo Kojima studio? That seems like the best possible outcome to this shit-show.

 

[MrMatt555]

Why has the game not gone gold yet? And where is the digital pre-order?

 

[Outrun]

This is some surreal shit that I am reading...

Konami is in full GW mode from MGS2.

 

[MrCunningham]

i hope the mobile bubble will get you soon, konami.

That's why Konami is spliting their resources between Pachinko development and Mobile. They don;t want to put all their eggs in one basket....

 

[jooey]

That's why Konami is spliting their resources between Pachinko development and Mobile. They don;t want to put all their eggs in one basket....

Don't forget the gyms!

 

[Cody_D165]

Konami has fallen so, so far.

As someone who grew up with their products it's absolutely sickening.

 

[Loakum]

For someone being terminated in a day, sure, but for several months?

That's the part that's different. They're allowing an terminated employee to remain on their property for an extended amount of time (working on a game). It's an messed up situation. I'll be glad when Kojima is free of Konami.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Pretty fucking amazing how much shit is happening inside Konami and, to be honest, I'm glad it's happening.


What do you expect them to treat him like? Give him a +$80,400,000 budget so he makes them a game however he wants to?

I expect they don't give him the budget and later using him as a slave because it. But they did and nothing justifies Konami actions as is their own high level mismanagement.

 

[Lightning]

I had very little sympathy for Kojima until reading this thread but "incarcerated" is taking things way too far. No matter what happened to spark this feud that is taking it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to far.

 

[Durante]

Isn't it harder to make a game without the internet? I couldn't imagine programming without being able to look things up.

That was my first thought.

Not having internet access would completely destroy my productivity. I pride myself on knowing a whole lot of things related to my job, but not as much as the internet.

 

[QaaQer]

They had to spend a very long time learning how to create large scale open world games from a technological, design, and production pipeline perspective.

Progress was probably quite slow in the early stages and then I imagine it took a long time to get to the point where the production pipeline was relatively optimal even once they had a sense of what they were doing.

A good example would be comparing the rate at which Ubisoft gets out the first entry/first reboot in one of their series (often 4-6 years) and then the rate at which the sequels come (1-2 years). However, Ubisoft has economies of scale that don't exist at Konami, where they can flood staff onto different high end projects if a game is stalling.

People need to put the $ # in context. There is a reason why there is no such thing as r*jpn or ubisoft Kyoto. Jpn is a terrible place for large team software development for anyone except Nintendo.

Not only is talent scarce, but costs/taxes high and productivity mediocre. And forget about getting talent to move there. If mgsv is a great open world game, HK will have done a phenomenal job for only 80M. Games like FFXV and MGSV should have been made in Poland or California.

 

[texni]

Live from konami's HQ

 

[Steel]

Wow. This is... Wow. I mean, that budget is huge, but the way they're treating the employees and kojima is....

 

[hateradio]

MGSV better be good -- I'm sure it will be.

 

[DrBo42]

People questioning the budget seems a little absurd. 80 million seems about right to me. Let's look at the work put in:

- New engine
- Game on both current and legacy gen systems as well as PC
- Move to open world with 2 massive maps that we know of
- Single player invasion multiplayer component
- Dedicated multiplayer mode
- Music licensing of 80s classics
- Kiefer ain't cheap

Game development is not cheap, especially over 6 years. The man hours alone must have been insane.

 

[MrCunningham]

People questioning the budget seems a little absurd. 80 million seems about right to me. Let's look at the work put in:

- New engine
- Game on both current and legacy gen systems as well as PC
- Move to open world with 2 massive maps that we know of
- Single player invasion multiplayer component
- Dedicated multiplayer mode
- Music licensing of 80s classics
- Kiefer ain't cheap

Game development is not cheap, especially over 6 years. The man hours alone must have been insane.

Also, don't forget about the development of Ground Zeroes, which probably came from part of the advertising budget and budget from the game.

 

[Imbarkus]

People questioning the budget seems a little absurd. 80 million seems about right to me. Let's look at the work put in:

- New engine
- Game on both current and legacy gen systems as well as PC
- Move to open world with 2 massive maps that we know of
- Single player invasion multiplayer component
- Dedicated multiplayer mode
- Music licensing of 80s classics
- Kiefer ain't cheap

Game development is not cheap, especially over 6 years. The man hours alone must have been insane.

I see only the last item there as extravagent. Hayter would have been great.

Japanese companies seem less into the middleware/engine licensing business. I would think with all the engine dveelopment time this would be a logical source of revenue to explore, even to western and European customers. Can someone explain why this is not so?

 

[NoctisVsStar]

People questioning the budget seems a little absurd. 80 million seems about right to me. Let's look at the work put in:

- New engine
- Game on both current and legacy gen systems as well as PC
- Move to open world with 2 massive maps that we know of
- Single player invasion multiplayer component
- Dedicated multiplayer mode
- Music licensing of 80s classics
- Kiefer ain't cheap

Game development is not cheap, especially over 6 years. The man hours alone must have been insane.

Mocap ain't cheap either ;P

Maybe MGS will be saved by Konami licensing it out like they are with the game Nintendo is making. Kojima may still have a small chance of working on MGS. At least there is some hope, right?...right?

The MGS series deserves to rest, it's time to let go.