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Nintendo hits a Metroid fansite with a DMCA Takedown notice, file no longer hosted

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L

LincolnTunnel

Member
Rich! said:
Remove all references to Metroid 2 and rename it "an unofficial Samus tale"

Problem solved.
Click to expand...

That doesn't solve the problem. Samus is still Nintendo's IP. Even if you change the game enough that it's not a remake of an existing game you're still using somebody else's copyrighted material. Just saying "Oh, this is an unofficial game so it doesn't count!" is not how it works.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
LincolnTunnel said:
That doesn't solve the problem. Samus is still Nintendo's IP. Even if you change the game enough that it's not a remake of an existing game you're still using somebody else's copyrighted material. Just saying "Oh, this is an unofficial game so it doesn't count!" is not how it works.
Click to expand...
But if the character design is changed too and maybe switch the map around? Different name, different character, different map layout, how much else is held within the copyright?
 
WaterAstro

WaterAstro

Member
Fredrik said:
But if the character design is changed too and maybe switch the map around? Different name, different character, different map layout, how much else is held within the copyright?
Click to expand...

Art asset would definitely have to be different. I think there's a hard percentile of difference that most companies follow by to bypass copyright. Different art means name, character, texture sprites, and music, and map layout would possibly need to change.

You can steal gameplay though.
 
L

LincolnTunnel

Member
Fredrik said:
But if the character design is changed too and maybe switch the map around? Different name, different character, different map layout, how much else is held within the copyright?
Click to expand...

If you change the character, the maps, the story, and you aren't using any assets lifted from other games, then copyright isn't an issue because you've just made a completely different game. I'm not really sure what you're asking here...
 
D

Dremark

Banned
Fredrik said:
But if the character design is changed too and maybe switch the map around? Different name, different character, different map layout, how much else is held within the copyright?
Click to expand...

Nor much. Whoever made this could have just made an original game and held all the rights to it if they wanted to. Instead they used a bunch of protected intellectual property.

It's cool they did that but Nintendo pretty much needs to at least drop a C&D if they want to be able to protect thier IPs. They let the thing come out and they aren't suing anyone and the people working on the game likely knew the game would get pulled quickly and shared underground.

I don't really see what the issue is here.
 
M

Mory Dunz

Member
Dremark said:
Nor much. Whoever made this could have just made an original game and held all the rights to it if they wanted to. Instead they used a bunch of protected intellectual property.

It's cool they did that but Nintendo pretty much needs to at least drop a C&D if they want to be able to protect thier IPs. They let the thing come out and they aren't suing anyone and the people working on the game likely knew the game would get pulled quickly and shared underground.

I don't really see what the issue is here.
Click to expand...

1. Making fan games is fun because you get to offer an interpretation on your favorite series

2. Plus making original art assests, etc, is a lot of effin work. Especially for one person. (ripping and using sprites from made games is time/taking as well, but a lot faster. I much prefer the latter.)

Nintendo doesn't drop CDs for free fan games like this usually
 
ShadowOwl

ShadowOwl

Member
If this DMCA request turns out to be legit Nintendo did a hell of a job to celebrate Metroid's 30th anniversary.
 
R

Rich!

Member
ShadowOwl said:
Zelda Classic.

Pretty most much a direct port of the first Zelda.
Click to expand...

And still going after 17 years.

Even after expanding into allowing remakes and versions of other Zelda games. And holding a domain as Zelda specific as Zeldaclassic.com
 
L

LincolnTunnel

Member
Rich! said:
And still going after 17 years.

Even after expanding into allowing remakes and versions of other Zelda games. And holding a domain as Zelda specific as Zeldaclassic.com
Click to expand...

Considering the similar projects that have been taken down (Like the Zelda 30th Anniversary Remake), it's surprising that ZeldaClassic is still going. Regardless of the fact that it's still going, Nintendo could have it taken down at any time. They're completely within their legal right to do so.
 
R

Rich!

Member
LincolnTunnel said:
Considering the similar projects that have been taken down (Like the Zelda 30th Anniversary Remake), it's surprising that ZeldaClassic is still going. Regardless of the fact that it's still going, Nintendo could have it taken down at any time. They're completely within their legal right to do so.
Click to expand...

Do you want it taken down, personally?
 
D

Dremark

Banned
Mory Dunz said:
1. Making fan games is fun because you get to offer an interpretation on your favorite series

2. Plus making original art assests, etc, is a lot of effin work. Especially for one person. (ripping and using sprites from made games is time/taking as well, but a lot faster. I much prefer the latter.)

Nintendo doesn't drop CDs for free fan games like this usually
Click to expand...

I don't think making thier own IP would have made it significantly less fun, but I didn't realize they took the assets from the other games directly.

Regardless even if these games aren't generally pulled I'm sure the people who worked on this knew it was a possibility. People will still be able to get the game, Nintendo can continue to protect thier IP and nobody is getting sued. I don't really this this is that bad of an outcome.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
WaterAstro said:
Art asset would definitely have to be different. I think there's a hard percentile of difference that most companies follow by to bypass copyright. Different art means name, character, texture sprites, and music, and map layout would possibly need to change.

You can steal gameplay though.
Click to expand...
Ah it would essentially be like starting over from scratch. Bummer. Just trying to see if there is a way out for this dev. Hopefully someone at Nintendo can see the awesome job this guy did before the lawyers just hunt him down, and maybe offer him a job to officially remake the game. IIRC when Factor 5 made Katakis, the Amiga R-Type clone, they got an offer to make the R-Type version on Amiga instead of getting sued.
 
L

LincolnTunnel

Member
Rich! said:
Do you want it taken down, personally?
Click to expand...

No? I don't think I ever implied that I did. I don't really care if it gets taken down or not. It's a cool project, and it'd suck for the people who worked on it, but that doesn't change the fact that they would have no real moral or legal leg to stand on. Being a fan of something does not give you ownership of it, and neither does putting in a lot of hard work. It's shitty how Nintendo has been treating the franchise, but that doesn't change how copyright law works and it doesn't change Nintendo's legal obligation to protect their copyright.
 
M

Mory Dunz

Member
Dremark said:
I don't think making thier own IP would have made it significantly less fun, but I didn't realize they took the assets from the other games directly.

Regardless even if these games aren't generally pulled I'm sure the people who worked on this knew it was a possibility. People will still be able to get the game, Nintendo can continue to protect thier IP and nobody is getting sued. I don't really this this is that bad of an outcome.
Click to expand...

It depends on the person I guess. Making your own completely original game is fun too. Kinda depends on your "mood". Basing it off a popular IP brings a lot more attention to your project though. And since it's just a hobby and not for money, the fan support and comments are sometimes the driving force the game. (This is partly why these games are announced before their finished, to GAF's dismay lol. I doubt I would've had to will to finish my games without the comments and fan support.)

I haven't played/looked at the game but I assume the sprites are from Metroid right? Probably with edits I would wager. Most people use spriters-resource.com
 
T

The Dutch Slayer

Member
Well I don't really get this, I thought it was ok because they did nothing before hand.
And now that its out its all of a sudden shut down?

Strange.

Lucky we have more mirrors but still strange.
 
J

Jonneh3003

Banned
Not surprising, you can't just go around making games using actual IP's, well done to the developer of the game though, the game looks amazing.
 
D

Defect

Member
marmoka said:
Great!! We cannot even celebrate the Metroid anniversary on our own. Aparently Nintendo wants us to buy a crappy and horrible game, instead of enjoying an awesome free fan remake.

Too late Nintendo, this won't make any of us stop playing the game, and if we cannot download it directly, we will find some other ways to get it somehow around the internet.

Screw you Ninty.
Click to expand...
You know, it's pretty funny. I wasn't planning on buying Federation Force for obvious reasons but after enjoying this remake I kinda want to buy it now.

I got a good 2d Metroid game so I'm fine with playing a spin off. If only Nintendo officially did this :p
 
D

Dremark

Banned
Mory Dunz said:
It depends on the person I guess. Making your own completely original game is fun too. Kinda depends on your "mood". Basing it off a popular IP brings a lot more attention to your project though. And since it's just a hobby and not for money, the fan support and comments are sometimes the driving force the game. (This is partly why these games are announced before their finished, to GAF's dismay lol. I doubt I would've had to will to finish my games without the comments and fan support.)

I haven't played/looked at the game but I assume the sprites are from Metroid right? Probably with edits I would wager. Most people use spriters-resource.com
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about the sprites, I've only seen a few shots of it but I thought they were new.

Yeah I suppose it really does come down to the individual. It pretty much comes down to the fact this sort of thing can't be left alone because it sets a legal precedence of the IP not being protected. By itself it's probably not going to harm Ninty, or at least harm them much, but it has to at least have a record of being snuffed out.

Having said that I personally don't have an issue with it existing and we all know once something hits the internet, it's never going away. It will exist underground forever because Nintendo let it come to light and isn't suing anyone. At the end of the day everyone gets what they want so I don't really see a big issue.

If they killed it while it was still in the oven or sued the dev behind it, it would be a different story though.

Also I never quite got why these are announced in advance but that sheds light on it and I get it now.
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
ShadowOwl said:
Different times, sadly.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Christian Whitehead once showed Sega how he got a port of Sonic CD made in his own engine running on iOS and they got him to make it an official release, followed up by Sonic 1 and 2 remasters. Now he's co-developing Sonic Mania. I definitely don't see Nintendo taking this route, though.

And I'm happy to see it's just Metroid Database for now. Seems like it was just that specific case because of the merchandising and all that, after all.
 
ShadowOwl

ShadowOwl

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Not necessarily. Christian Whitehead once showed Sega how he got a port of Sonic CD made in his own engine running on iOS and they got him to make it an official release, followed up by Sonic 1 and 2 remasters. Now he's co-developing Sonic Mania. I definitely don't see Nintendo taking this route, though.
Click to expand...
Whoops, how could I forget about that. Just heard about it yesterday. Glad to be wrong. :)
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
Dremark said:
I'm not sure about the sprites, I've only seen a few shots of it but I thought they were new.

Yeah I suppose it really does come down to the individual. It pretty much comes down to the fact this sort of thing can't be left alone because it sets a legal precedence of the IP not being protected. By itself it's probably not going to harm Ninty, or at least harm them much, but it has to at least have a record of being snuffed out.

Having said that I personally don't have an issue with it existing and we all know once something hits the internet, it's never going away. It will exist underground forever because Nintendo let it come to light and isn't suing anyone. At the end of the day everyone gets what they want so I don't really see a big issue.

If they killed it while it was still in the oven or sued the dev behind it, it would be a different story though.

Also I never quite got why these are announced in advance but that sheds light on it and I get it now.
Click to expand...

They're announced in advanced to see if interest is there. Usually people do this in their spare time, and if there's no interest, why bother if you're only benefiting yourself? Fan projects like this, even when announced, rarely ever come out due to people on the project becoming disinterested and moving on.
 
X

Xemnas89

Member
I see people in here boasting about being right in regards to nintendo taking this game down. The game didn't get taken down at all though and the developer said he hasn't been contacted by nintendo about it so this all seems like nothing.
 
Kadin

Kadin

Member
I imagine there's an obvious answer to this question but why don't developers of fan-made stuff like this reach out to the IP holder in advance before putting in so much work to then see it possibly vanish in the blink of an eye?

Are they hoping that it will go unnoticed because they know if they ask it'll get rejected? I mean, I'm all for supporting creativity and fan-made project but it seems like something like this, which shares so many aspects of the actual official product, is just begging to be removed by Nintendo if it gets incredibly popular. If they know what they're doing potentially crosses a line, legally, why risk it?

I see people citing past projects, etc. that haven't been removed as a source as to why this wouldn't be taken down but it seems like that's just a possibility - not a given.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
Kadin said:
I imagine there's an obvious answer to this question but why don't developers of fan-made stuff like this reach out to the IP holder in advance before putting in so much work to then see it possibly vanish in the blink of an eye?

Are they hoping that it will go unnoticed because they know if they ask it'll get rejected? I mean, I'm all for supporting creativity and fan-made project but it seems like something like this, which shares so many aspects of the actual official product, is just begging to be removed by Nintendo if it gets incredibly popular. If they know what they're doing potentially crosses a line, legally, why risk it?

I see people citing past projects, etc. that haven't been removed as a source as to why this wouldn't be taken down but it seems like that's just a possibility - not a given.
Click to expand...

Nintendo's policy is to not accept game solicitation from fans.
 
R

RedShift

Member
Kadin said:
I imagine there's an obvious answer to this question but why don't developers of fan-made stuff like this reach out to the IP holder in advance before putting in so much work to then see it possibly vanish in the blink of an eye?

Are they hoping that it will go unnoticed because they know if they ask it'll get rejected? I mean, I'm all for supporting creativity and fan-made project but it seems like something like this, which shares so many aspects of the actual official product, is just begging to be removed by Nintendo if it gets incredibly popular. If they know what they're doing potentially crosses a line, legally, why risk it?

I see people citing past projects, etc. that haven't been removed as a source as to why this wouldn't be taken down but it seems like that's just a possibility - not a given.
Click to expand...

If they'd asked Nintendo would have had no choice really but to say no. This way they can release it, and even if they get C&D'd the game will still be out there forever.

Also, if you want to support the game: seed the torrent.
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Opa-Pa said:
Not necessarily. Christian Whitehead once showed Sega how he got a port of Sonic CD made in his own engine running on iOS and they got him to make it an official release, followed up by Sonic 1 and 2 remasters. Now he's co-developing Sonic Mania. I definitely don't see Nintendo taking this route, though.

And I'm happy to see it's just Metroid Database for now. Seems like it was just that specific case because of the merchandising and all that, after all.
Click to expand...

Didn't the "Mega" download mirror also get taken down on like the first day?

Now all that's left is Mediafire and Bittorrent. Nintendo is probably sitting on the torrent and collecting IP addresses so that they can send piracy warning letters to all of our Internet Service Providers.
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

Member
Cheerilee said:
Didn't the "Mega" download mirror also get taken down on like the first day?

Now all that's left is Mediafire and Bittorrent. Nintendo is probably sitting on the torrent and collecting IP addresses so that they can send piracy warning letters to all of our Internet Service Providers.
Click to expand...

That tinfoil hat looks very stylish on you ;D
 
I

indask8

Member
I've seen on the comment section of a youtube playthrough of the game (vinesauce) that people are actually emailing Nintendo to get this game taken down...

crazy.
 
D

Dremark

Banned
KingBroly said:
They're announced in advanced to see if interest is there. Usually people do this in their spare time, and if there's no interest, why bother if you're only benefiting yourself? Fan projects like this, even when announced, rarely ever come out due to people on the project becoming disinterested and moving on.
Click to expand...

I would think the risk of a C&D would outweigh the risk of testing for interest. His explanation of essentially drawing will power from the fanbase makes a lot more sense.
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
indask8 said:
I've seen on the comment section of a youtube playthrough of the game (vinesauce) that people are actually emailing Nintendo to get this game taken down...

crazy.
Click to expand...

First rule about youtube's comment section: Don't read youtube's comment section. It's full of lies and trash.

I would think the risk of a C&D would outweigh the risk of testing for interest. His explanation of essentially drawing will power from the fanbase makes a lot more sense.
Click to expand...

C&D's usually come closer to a project's release, not its' beginning. It really depends on how much noise a project is making, though. This one was pretty quiet, giving people sparse updates, and most didn't think it'd get released.
 
D

Defect

Member
Cheerilee said:
Didn't the "Mega" download mirror also get taken down on like the first day?

Now all that's left is Mediafire and Bittorrent. Nintendo is probably sitting on the torrent and collecting IP addresses so that they can send piracy warning letters to all of our Internet Service Providers.
Click to expand...
I don't know how this can be seen as 'piracy'.
 
ShadowOwl

ShadowOwl

Member
DSN2K said:
they have every right to protect their IP lets be honest.
Click to expand...
Legally? Of course. Doesn't make it a smart move though (if it's confirmed to be legit). The Metroid fan base is starving as there hasn't been a decent Metroid game in 9 years (Metroid Prime 3, 6 years if you count Other M)). A fan comes along and gives them a full and absolutely free remake of Metroid 2 to celebrate the 30th anniversary which has been in the works for over 10 years. On PC. And Nintendo (apparently) takes it down.

Does that really sound smart to you?

Btw, I absolutely don't hate Federation Force, kinda looking forward to it by now. Still, I don't blame the community feeling mocked by Nintendo when they announced this game.
 
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