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[plutoknight]

Is 172k units of Disgaea 5 considered good? I mean I know it's a niche game, but geez. For such a low budget they have a really high production quality .

172k is -great- for Disgaea 5, especially for home console.

This isn't Final Fantasy or even Persona.

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

witch is gonna bomb so hard*
* again
** in not japan

im more surprised nis hasnt decided (yet; i checked still no listing on steamdb) to port that to steam, for some sort of chance of livelihood

 

[AniHawk]

112k is doing well?

for three months of sales, that's pretty great. disgaea 3 and disgaea 4 went on to sell north of 100k in the us alone, and this seems like it's on track for that considering it released relatively early in the ps4's life.

 

[lazyproblems]

Glad to see that Disgaea 5 has done well. Especially glad that the West has picked up the slack for that series.

Also cool to see Yomawari did well. That's one of the titles I hope we see at the upcoming NISA event.

 

[18-Volt]

There has always been a dissonance between NIS and NISA that always bothered me. It's been increasing every year and I feel like one will eventually push their business over the other.

NIS needs to keep developing Vita titles to remain relevant in Japan. NISA is moving away from the Vita and will pass on several NIS titles because they're on the platform. I mean, this is like XSEED and Marvelous in 2009, except that NIS doesn't let other companies localize their titles.

I wish that, if NISA didn't want to localize games like Hero Must Die or Coven because they don't care about the platform, let other companies have them. In the end, we'll be missing out on several great games because one company doesn't care about the business of the other.

Either they'll localize Vita titles or they will ask their parent company kindly to port those games elsewhere. Otherwise they'll have no other game to localize this year.

I don't think Nippon Ichi's love for Vita would last forever. By the time NX launches Vita will disappear instantly as all the Japanese developers will migrate. NIS too, and those games, Coven, Hero Must Die and Rose might be the last Vita games from them. They won't lose too much if the localize only those five games. I mean, they are the ones who localized PSP games as late as 2012-2013. Any of those games would sell much better than Black Rock Shooter.

 

[Jotamide]

Is Yomawari coming then? Cause my friend has a copy and I've been itching to play it but I can't understand Nihongo.

 

[SarusGray]

for three months of sales, that's pretty great. disgaea 3 and disgaea 4 went on to sell north of 100k in the us alone, and this seems like it's on track for that considering it released relatively early in the ps4's life.

this, disgaea is not known for HUGE sales numbers. This number is on par with how much disgaea always sold. I'm sure the season pass we all bit on also helped their wallet c;

 

[orochi91]

D5 doing well is fantastic.

NA/EU picking up the slack for sub-par sales in Japan really makes me happy.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Glad to hear NIS is happy about D5's sales. I still wonder why they thought releasing it the same day as Bloodborne was a good idea.

 

[cpp_is_king]

172k is -great- for Disgaea 5, especially for home console.

This isn't Final Fantasy or even Persona.

Well, yea it's just that total revenue from that is like $8.6 million. I'm just amazed that they can even make a game like that at all on that kind of budget. They must have a really small team, like 10-20 people tops.

Anyway, very happy to hear it, because I remember they said at one point they were banking the company on D5. So I definitely want ot see more

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

Glad to hear NIS is happy about D5's sales. I still wonder why they thought releasing it the same day as Bloodborne was a good idea.

disgaea 5's release date was set before bloodborne's delay

 

[Koeta]

It always makes me sad when I hear these numbers, the game is so good but only has such a small audience.

I'm happy it's doing well though, I think 5 is my most played PS4 game second only to Destiny.

 

[Darth_Caedus]

Thank God! We should eventually get Disgaea 6! They just keep getting better. 4 and 5 are so damn good.

 

[Kresnik258]

So, have we got anyone who can properly translate these Disgaea figures for me?

The way it was showing for me was 60k in Japan, 112k total (aka 112k is worldwide including Japan).

But now I see people running with 172k figure, has someone else translated it differently? If so I'll update OP.

NIS needs to keep developing Vita titles to remain relevant in Japan. NISA is moving away from the Vita and will pass on several NIS titles because they're on the platform. I mean, this is like XSEED and Marvelous in 2009, except that NIS doesn't let other companies localize their titles.

I wish that, if NISA didn't want to localize games like Hero Must Die or Coven because they don't care about the platform, let other companies have them. In the end, we'll be missing out on several great games because one company doesn't care about the business of the other.

I assume this is because Anihawk seems to think Vita titles are no longer coming from them? Realistically, if they want to expand to Steam (which they seem to) they're still going to need to translate these games to English first.

They should take (yet another) page out of IFI's book, which is bring the Vita games over first and then put them on Steam a little later.

 

[Rymuth]

Good for Yomawari.

Remember the scare we had last year when they said, "If Disgaea 5 doesn't sell well, NIS will go out of business."

 

[Memory]

Seems Disgaea PC marketing s starting on steam, really hope it does well there.

 

[mrmickfran]

So, have we got anyone who can properly translate these Disgaea figures for me?

The way it was showing for me was 60k in Japan, 112k total (aka 112k is worldwide including Japan).

But now I see people running with 172k figure, has someone else translated it differently? If so I'll update OP.

I mean, they said that the 60k from Japan wasn't great, if it sold 52k everywhere else I don't think that they would say that sales in the west "made up" for it.

So we can only assume that they were happy that the west picked up the slack and sold 112k.

 

[AniHawk]

I mean, they said that the 60k from Japan wasn't great, if it sold 52k everywhere else I don't think that they would say that sales in the west "made up" for it.

So we can only assume that they were happy that the west picked up the slack and sold 112k.

the rest of the world absolutely sold 112k if japan sold 60k and the other number was 112k. however, in these terms, i believe these are shipped numbers.

 

[rockman zx]

Is really a shame D5 didn't sell more in Japan, around 100K will be fair, Such a great game.

 

[AniHawk]

I assume this is because Anihawk seems to think Vita titles are no longer coming from them? Realistically, if they want to expand to Steam (which they seem to) they're still going to need to translate these games to English first.

They should take (yet another) page out of IFI's book, which is bring the Vita games over first and then put them on Steam a little later.

it's more that vita exclusive is just harder and harder to do. it's okay if it's a big sequel to a known franchise, or even a spinoff like danganronpa another episode and persona 4 dancing all night were last year. it's different if you're launching a new ip on the vita in 2016 like hero must die, coven, the rose castle thing, and yomawari are. it's almost like nis in japan just ignores the rest of the world when the rest of the world is where a lot of the money gets made. i assume that's why niikawa mentions the ps4 in proceeding with future projects.

 

[2+2=5]

Wow those are some low numbers, but if they are good enough then good for them, making good enough games with a low budget is how many smaller japanese developers keep on living and producing lots of games.

 

[witchedwiz]

Well, yea it's just that total revenue from that is like $8.6 million. I'm just amazed that they can even make a game like that at all on that kind of budget. They must have a really small team, like 10-20 people tops.

Anyway, very happy to hear it, because I remember they said at one point they were banking the company on D5. So I definitely want ot see more

cpp you are a brother of my soul being in my same field (IT XD)..
i did a quick count of figures, simulated some midian wages (60-70k each), made some general assumptions on publishing expense figures and some "influx" to company expense (minimal.. but under the assumption that the whole "society" runs a max of 5 contemporary project, money to pay for bills, corporate building etc,has to be accounted in the final tally of the yearly revenue), and if they are HAPPY (meaning a 40% revenue) it would require them to have 10-20 ppl team, no more than that..

 

[witchedwiz]

Wow those are some low numbers, but if they are good enough then good for them, making good enough games with a low budget is how many smaller japanese developers keep on living and producing lots of games.

if any SE games was selling 150k, they would butcher the serie..
difference between companies..
you can deliver a good game with a low budget.
it won't have the flashiest graphic.. it won't have full and latest look..
but the game will cater to its gamers' taste...

i mean, if konami released a suikoden vi for vita or 3ds with "old time" psx graphics, do you think games will complain?
some sure, but a lot would not..

give me more games, oh my overlords!

 

[18-Volt]

it's more that vita exclusive is just harder and harder to do. it's okay if it's a big sequel to a known franchise, or even a spinoff like danganronpa another episode and persona 4 dancing all night were last year. it's different if you're launching a new ip on the vita in 2016 like hero must die, coven, the rose castle thing, and yomawari are. it's almost like nis in japan just ignores the rest of the world when the rest of the world is where a lot of the money gets made. i assume that's why niikawa mentions the ps4 in proceeding with future projects.

I believe XSEED once said that, as long as the core crowd is there, Vita exclusive stuff sell just fine in west. They're niche and obscure games and cater only people who know about them. I don't think sale numbers that much different from PS4 or 3DS versions of multiplat Vita titles. Some games, like Conception 2, SAO: Lost Song, Lost Dimension or Steins;Gate sell better on Vita.

As Kresnik said, Steam ports would help much better than PS4 ports. NISA is a subsidiary of Nippon Ichi and they can always ask ports from them. Disgaea 1 releases on Steam this month and it seems it's just a beginning.

 

[Kresnik258]

Edited the OP:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=194015990&postcount=570

60k in Japan and 112k overseas. Meaning that is 172k worldwide.

 

[Kresnik258]

I believe XSEED once said that, as long as the core crowd is there, Vita exclusive stuff sell just fine in west.

http://forum.marvelous-usa.com/index.php?showtopic=27878&#entry871763

Yeah, I don't get when other publishers shy away from the Vita. It's like last generation, when other publishers shied away from the PSP -- a system is only dead if you make it that way! There were tons of good games being released on PSP last gen, and there are tons of good games being released on Vita this gen. And there's no reason to ignore those good games because "nobody owns a Vita" -- obviously, people do, because we're doing quite well with our Vita releases.

That was October 2014 (post Ragnarok/Valhalla Knights/Ys). Would be interesting to hear his thoughts on it now.

 

[Zolo]

Yeah. I think I do remember a post about how while the Vita might not be popular, the owners of it tend to buy a good amount of games.

 

[Tratorn]

Decent D5 sales overseas.
Didn't expect that after the pretty low japan sales.

It's good for Sony that they're stronger than ever in Asia, so publishers can make up for some lower japan sales there in addition to a west release for some titles.

 

[The Last One]

Doing 112k overseas means that it might reach Disgaea 4 numbers eventually, right? ( excluding Japan.)

 

[robotnik]

http://forum.marvelous-usa.com/index.php?showtopic=27878&#entry871763



That was October 2014 (post Ragnarok/Valhalla Knights/Ys). Would be interesting to hear his thoughts on it now.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1125701
October 2015.

 

[Kresnik258]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1125701
October 2015.

Haha. I even posted in that thread but forgot about it.

 

[Syntsui]

I didn't even know there was a new Disgaea. There's not much fuss about it around here.

 

[Cropduster89]

I think Disgaea should have a decent market on PC, maybe even more than on console. A lot of supposedly niche JP titles have been doing really well on Steam recently, and a turn based strategy RPG sounds like a classic PC game from the get go, not so much on console.

I'll grab it anyway, really enjoyed 1 & 2 back in the day, but haven't owned anything that can play them since then. But I'm probably not going to buy a next-gen console exclusively to play a sprite-based SRPG.

 

[gtj1092]

Sweet for D5. Sucks I haven't got it yet but it launched around DQH and ToZ.

It's annoying but expected that some are upset NIS are happy with its sales.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

I still don't understand why they don't release Disgaea on non-Sony platforms (I guess there was a DS one) if it's struggling, but I guess lots of 3rd parties have unofficial "alliances" to certain consoles so *shrugs*

ITT people don't realize that developing for 2 or more consoles costs more time, manpower, and money than developing for one.

NIS is a tiny, tiny company. They know where their fanbase resides and they make games for their fanbase. I'm not against them porting games to other platforms (Disgaea in particular is a great series IMO) but this is borderline port-begging.

 

[StMeph]

I've picked up every strategy NIS title in its first version of release, but never any of the rereleases or updated editions, so I probably won't get the new PC version of Disgaea 1, either.

 

[djtiesto]

I think Disgaea should have a decent market on PC, maybe even more than on console. A lot of supposedly niche JP titles have been doing really well on Steam recently, and a turn based strategy RPG sounds like a classic PC game from the get go, not so much on console.

Wha? Strategy RPGs have been big on consoles since the Genesis days (Shining Force, Warsong, Warrior of Rome). Even the NES had the earliest Fire Emblem games and stuff like Desert Commander.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm happy for Yomawari. Looks like a very intriguing little game indeed.

I hope it gets localized. Cool soundtrack too.

 

[Unknown?]

ITT people don't realize that developing for 2 or more consoles costs more time, manpower, and money than developing for one.

NIS is a tiny, tiny company. They know where their fanbase resides and they make games for their fanbase. I'm not against them porting games to other platforms (Disgaea in particular is a great series IMO) but this is borderline port-begging.

I agree, very borderline. The fanbase is on PlayStation, that's why they make them for it. It would tank on other platforms and I'm not convinced it will do enough to justify porting to PC. If people wanted to play it they'd get a PS4... Or Vita.

 

[KenzinFive]

Disgaea games do have the potential to play well on Mobile. If SE can make FFT work on Mobile, so can NiS.

Disgaea on my iPhone 6+ would be magnificent, regardless of whether it's the original or one of the sequels.

Steam releases are great too, if only to expand their audience to PC gamers and sell more copies.

EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised if Disgaea 1 sells VERY well on Steam and that takes NIS by surprise, causing them to reevaluate their releases.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I remember last time they gambled big on new IPs and it almost killed them. Disgaea 4 basically pulled them back. Hopefully they learned some lessons for that.

They do seem to have. They went all in on the PS4 which was super dangerous but it paid off due to the Western audience. And they seen aware that the Vita despite its poor sales generally does really well in their niche so they aren't ignoring it.

Also NISA is showing some signs of making a serious run at PC. I really want to see how much effort went into the PC port, the screen shots look good but I want to know of they patched any of the stuff from the DS version in, which would show real attention to detail.

 

[IzzyF3]

Umm... To be honest, I've never been able to get into Disgaea games because of the humor. I think it's trying a little too hard. I played and LOVED Phantom Brave though. Can we get a sequel to that? Strategically choosing what items to spawn your allies and the player speed stat based system was great.

 

[CrispyBoar]

ITT people don't realize that developing for 2 or more consoles costs more time, manpower, and money than developing for one.

NIS is a tiny, tiny company. They know where their fanbase resides and they make games for their fanbase. I'm not against them porting games to other platforms (Disgaea in particular is a great series IMO) but this is borderline port-begging.

Not to mention that NIS would have to sell even more copies of the same game just to make a profit since the game would be on 2 or more platforms at release (& yes, PC would count as well), more than they have to sell a small amount of copies of a game on one platform to make a profit.

 

[ys45]

Wow ,10 years ago or maybe more this kind of games would have sold way better in Japan and so much less in NA .

So much has changed ....

 

[Hero Prinny]

I want disgaea D2 for vita. Lets make it happen NIS, also while you're at it, give me more disgaea stuff.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

Gimme my D5 vita port NIS.

I don't think Nippon Ichi's love for Vita would last forever. By the time NX launches Vita will disappear instantly as all the Japanese developers will migrate. NIS too, and those games, Coven, Hero Must Die and Rose might be the last Vita games from them. They won't lose too much if the localize only those five games. I mean, they are the ones who localized PSP games as late as 2012-2013. Any of those games would sell much better than Black Rock Shooter.

I think you're over estimating how fast Japanese developers are willing to change platforms. If the NX is a home console its going to be an even slower migration. And if it's just about platform popularity, the 3DS is already 10x more popular than the Vita in Japan and infinitely more in the West.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Gimme my D5 vita port NIS.



I think you're over estimating how fast Japanese developers are willing to change platforms. If the NX is a home console its going to be an even slower migration. And if it's just about platform popularity, the 3DS is already 10x more popular than the Vita in Japan and infinitely more in the West.

The Vita has a weird relationship with the JRPG niche. There's a low system install rate but the conversion rate is very high. And it's the multiple of those things that really matters.

I do think it also depends if the handheld NX device is actually a serious technical advance. Nintendo has been skimping on power and riding on gimmicks (some of which have paid off) post Gamecube / GBA. If it's the same thing again you may only see a 3DS -> NX migration or worse a Wii > Wii U collapse. Or they might bit an awesome gimmick and have a Wii like success.

 

[Bladelaw]

Based on the link to Disgaea 4's sales (~150k a month or so after launch) Disgaea 5 is doing on par with that which is apparently more successful than D3 was. Assuming the extra content does well (given how much they put out I'd bet it is) then it's a safe assumption NIS is doing "ok". Not blockbuster by any stretch but certainly well enough to fund the development of the many projects highlighted in the OP's article.

I'd love for Disgaea to break out like Persona but I'm not sure what tweaks would need to be made to the formula to accomplish that while retaining what makes it so good.

 

[LifeBrandRobot]

Wha? Strategy RPGs have been big on consoles since the Genesis days (Shining Force, Warsong, Warrior of Rome). Even the NES had the earliest Fire Emblem games and stuff like Desert Commander.

They used to be big on consoles. Think about it, even the Xcom reboot didn't sell enough on consoles to warrant console versions of Xcom 2.

 

[Cropduster89]

Wha? Strategy RPGs have been big on consoles since the Genesis days (Shining Force, Warsong, Warrior of Rome). Even the NES had the earliest Fire Emblem games and stuff like Desert Commander.

I would say they were never exactly 'big' even 20 years ago. Games like Syndicate or the original X-Com were phenomenons on PC back then, while something like the Shining Force series was always relatively obscure. FF Tactics was probably the peak and mostly due to name recognition.

The PS2 Disgaea games were pretty damn far under the radar of most gamers back then, and prbably even further now. Getting the games out on PC looks like a pretty savvy plan from NIS in my opinion.