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[pbayne]

does this rule cody out of that us title tournament thingy then?

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's not about Long Beach, it's about getting people to tune into the live broadcast on AXS

No one is going to watch just for Cody

I disagree, lets not talk about promos since Cody is easily the best promo guy in the bullet club which they've all admitted.

Really don't understand the anger like they're actually gonna put the title on Cody when its clearly just a filler match like Bad Luck Fale's was

Right I don't want another filler match and you shouldn't do a filler match on your big we want in on the US market show.


And that promo was still shit.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

I disagree, lets not talk about promos since Cody is easily the best promo guy in the bullet club which they've all admitted.

Really don't understand the anger like they're actually gonna put the title on Cody when its clearly just a filler match like Bad Luck Fale's was

Cody's promos are nowhere near Omega's during the G1 finals.

Absolutely not even close, friend.

 

[SallyIsNow]

I disagree, lets not talk about promos since Cody is easily the best promo guy in the bullet club which they've all admitted.

Really don't understand the anger like they're actually gonna put the title on Cody when its clearly just a filler match like Bad Luck Fale's was

Filler match

For their first US main event

 

[excelsiorlef]

Filler match

For their first US main event

Right!?

 

[HeavenlyE]

Every Okada defense thats not against Omega is a filler match to me cuz no one else has a chance of taking the title off of him, filler doesnt equal bad

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

So overall a fantastic show. I'd probably rate it as such:

David Finlay, Shota Umino and Tomoyuki Oka vs. Hirai Kawato, Katsuya Kitamura and Tetsuhiro Yagi
***
Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Jushin Thunder Liger, Manabu Nakanishi and Satoshi Kojima vs. Tiger Mask, Tiger Mask W, Togi Makabe and Yuji Nagata
**¾
Los Ingobernables (Bushi, Evil and Sanada) (c) vs. Bullet Club (Bad Luck Fale, Hangman Page and Yujiro Takahashi) vs. Chaos (Tomohiro Ishii, Toru Yano and Yoshi-Hashi) vs. Suzuki-gun (Taichi, Yoshinobu Kanemaru and Zack Sabre Jr.) vs. Taguchi Japan (Juice Robinson, Ricochet and Ryusuke Taguchi)
***½
Roppongi Vice (Beretta and Rocky Romero) (CHAOS) (c) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson) (Bullet Club)
****½
War Machine (Hanson and Raymond Rowe) (c) vs. Guerrillas of Destiny (Tama Tonga and Tanga Roa) (Bullet Club)
***
Cody (Bullet Club) Vs. Michael Elgin
***
Hiromu Takahashi (c) (Los Ingobernables) vs. Kushida
****½
Minoru Suzuki (c) (Suzuki-Gun) vs. Hirooki Goto (CHAOS)
****¼
Tetsuya Naito (c) (Los Ingobernables) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
****¾
Kazuchika Okada (c)(CHAOS) vs. Kenny Omega (Bullet Club)
*****

 

[Brinbe]

No one is going to watch just for Cody



Right I don't want another filler match and you shouldn't do a filler match on your big we want in on the US market show.


And that promo was still shit.

Hey now, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just explaining their thinking. Totally different things here.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Bullshit.

On the Indy scene which is what NJPW is in Long Beach Cody is 100% not the most visible.


Look at the ROH show dude Omega was a fucking superstar. Shit Bucks and Omega got a Hot Topic deal and Cody us a hang on in that.

If you think NJPW is making this push into the US just to settle for an ROH/indie sized audience, you're greatly underestimating their aspirations. They want as much of the WWE audience as possible, and Cody will get them that far better than Omega will.

"No one is going to watch just for Cody"

You underestimate how much power name recognition has. If the average WWE fan were to hear about this show without Cody on it, they wouldn't give a shit. They hear that Cody, someone they remember from WWE, has a major title shot? I guarantee there's a better chance of them tuning in to AXS for that than some guy named Omega they've never heard of.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

So overall a fantastic show. I'd probably rate it as such:

David Finlay, Shota Umino and Tomoyuki Oka vs. Hirai Kawato, Katsuya Kitamura and Tetsuhiro Yagi
***
Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Jushin Thunder Liger, Manabu Nakanishi and Satoshi Kojima vs. Tiger Mask, Tiger Mask W, Togi Makabe and Yuji Nagata
**¾
Los Ingobernables (Bushi, Evil and Sanada) (c) vs. Bullet Club (Bad Luck Fale, Hangman Page and Yujiro Takahashi) vs. Chaos (Tomohiro Ishii, Toru Yano and Yoshi-Hashi) vs. Suzuki-gun (Taichi, Yoshinobu Kanemaru and Zack Sabre Jr.) vs. Taguchi Japan (Juice Robinson, Ricochet and Ryusuke Taguchi)
***½
Roppongi Vice (Beretta and Rocky Romero) (CHAOS) (c) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson) (Bullet Club)
****½
War Machine (Hanson and Raymond Rowe) (c) vs. Guerrillas of Destiny (Tama Tonga and Tanga Roa) (Bullet Club)
***
Cody (Bullet Club) Vs. Michael Elgin
***
Hiromu Takahashi (c) (Los Ingobernables) vs. Kushida
****½
Minoru Suzuki (c) (Suzuki-Gun) vs. Hirooki Goto (CHAOS)
****¼
Tetsuya Naito (c) (Los Ingobernables) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
****¾
Kazuchika Okada (c)(CHAOS) vs. Kenny Omega (Bullet Club)
*****

I struggle so hard to give ratings to this card. Tanahashi vs Naito was incredible and basically a perfect match. Omega vs Okada pt 2 was somehow even better.

It is craziness for sure.

 

[Kensation]

If you think NJPW is making this push into the US just to settle for an ROH/indie sized audience, you're greatly underestimating their aspirations. They want as much of the WWE audience as possible, and Cody will get them that far better than Omega will.

"No one is going to watch just for Cody"

You underestimate how much power name recognition has. If the average WWE fan were to hear about this show without Cody on it, they wouldn't give a shit. They hear that Cody, someone they remember from WWE, has a major title shot? I guarantee there's a better chance of them tuning in to AXS for that than some guy named Omega they've never heard of.

Well, I mean no one REALLY gave a shit about Cody while he was in WWE.....

 

[excelsiorlef]

If you think NJPW is making this push into the US just to settle for an ROH/indie sized audience, you're greatly underestimating their aspirations. They want as much of the WWE audience as possible, and Cody will get them that far better than Omega will.

"No one is going to watch just for Cody"

You underestimate how much power name recognition has. If the average WWE fan were to hear about this show without Cody on it, they wouldn't give a shit. They hear that Cody, someone they remember from WWE, has a major title shot? I guarantee there's a better chance of them tuning in to AXS for that than some guy named Omega they've never heard of.

Dude... that's like saying Jack Swagger is a bigger draw then Kenny Omega...

Cody is literally on the same level as Jack Swagger

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I struggle so hard to give ratings to this card. Tanahashi vs Naito was incredible and basically a perfect match. Omega vs Okada pt 2 was somehow even better.

It is craziness for sure.

I'd have probably given Naito/Tana 5* if Naito had won and retired/destroyed the belt.

Hard to say without seeing it happen though.

 

[Seraphis Cain]

Dude... that's like saying Jack Swagger is a bigger draw then Kenny Omega...

Cody is literally on the same level as Jack Swagger

For the average WWE fan? The kind of fan who only associates the word "wrestling" with "WWE"? He probably is.

And again, I'm only trying to explain this from NJPW's viewpoint (as I see it). This is not what I want. I want Omega/Okada 3. So, so much. But like I said, I can see what New Japan's going for with this. It's the same thing TNA does when they have guys like AJ and Aries and Joe, and yet they put them on the back burner for years because Christian or Nash or Jeff or Booker come in and people know who they are.

 

[excelsiorlef]

For the average WWE fan? The kind of fan who only associates the word "wrestling" with "WWE"? He probably is.

And again, I'm only trying to explain this from NJPW's viewpoint (as I see it). This is not what I want. I want Omega/Okada 3. So, so much. But like I said, I can see what New Japan's going for with this. It's the same thing TNA does when they have guys like AJ and Aries and Joe, and yet they put them on the back burner for years because Christian or Nash or Jeff or Booker come in and people know who they are.

Dude Cody was fucking Stardust and jobbing to an actor before he left.

You're literally trying to convince me that glorified Jack Swagger is going to draw ratings.

And how did all that workout for TNA... oh yeah it didn't...

Who is the most over guy in WWE oh yeah NJPW star AJ Styles

 

[serenewarfare]

Meltzer says this surpasses the Dome match.

Dude Cody was fucking Stardust and jobbing to an actor before he left.

You're literally trying to convince me that glorified Jack Swagger is going to draw ratings.

And how did all that workout for TNA... oh yeah it didn't...

Who is the most over guy in WWE oh yeah NJPW star AJ Styles

Let's not even kid ourselves for a minute and act like AJ was over more to a majority of the audience because of his time in New Japan rather than in TNA.

No one is saying Cody is a big draw. He's just a bigger draw to a casual audience than Omega. That's just a fact.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

For the average WWE fan? The kind of fan who only associates the word "wrestling" with "WWE"? He probably is.

And again, I'm only trying to explain this from NJPW's viewpoint (as I see it). This is not what I want. I want Omega/Okada 3. So, so much. But like I said, I can see what New Japan's going for with this. It's the same thing TNA does when they have guys like AJ and Aries and Joe, and yet they put them on the back burner for years because Christian or Nash or Jeff or Booker come in and people know who they are.

I understand where you are coming from but I think trying to appeal to American fans who don't already watch by sending out former WWE guys may be somewhat misguided.

NJPW's draw is, and should be, an alternative to WWE. High workrate and rich in ring story telling. That is what they excel at and why everyone here loves NJPW so passionately.

Putting a hack in a top spot because management thinks he'll draw is already why people are tired of WWE.

 

[Brinbe]

I understand where you are coming from but I think trying to appeal to American fans who don't already watch by sending out former WWE guys may be somewhat misguided.

NJPW's draw is, and should be, an alternative to WWE. High workrate and rich in ring story telling. That is what they excel at and why everyone here loves NJPW so passionately.

Putting a hack in a top spot because management thinks he'll draw is already why people are tired of WWE.

This is true. I would've preferred if they trusted the intelligence of the viewership and sold their products on its merits, but I guess they figure that's a tough sell in an untested market. And they need every bit of casual exposure to get non-fans interested. They're sailing in unventured territory here.

 

[serenewarfare]

I also think this is just a case of "Japan is their primary market and always will be, so that market will always get the biggest matches". WWE ain't putting WM main events on their UK shows for instance.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Meltzer says this surpasses the Dome match.

Where's that? Don't see a new WOR up, and there's nothing on twitter or the board.

 

[serenewarfare]

Where's that? Don't see a new WOR up, and there's nothing on twitter or the board.

Misread the front page. Usually Meltz does the coverage of the bigger live shows.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Meltzer says this surpasses the Dome match.



Let's not even kid ourselves for a minute and act like AJ was over more to a majority of the audience because of his time in New Japan rather than in TNA.

No one is saying Cody is a big draw. He's just a bigger draw to a casual audience than Omega. That's just a fact.

NJPW legitimized him.

I don't buy for a second that Cody is anything

 

[HashtagLapsed]

I think it was Rose who said it exceeded the Dome match.

Won't surprise me if Meltzer says as much anyways though. I think it did surpass that match. I didn't have as many worrying heart palpitations for that match.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

It was better then the dome match on every level.

Dunno how the hell meltz is going to score it

 

[HashtagLapsed]

Omega's exhaustion getting him to dodge the Rainmaker was amazing.

 

[HeavenlyE]

NJPW legitimized him.

I don't buy for a second that Cody is anything

Cody is over in every promotion he goes to and was getting twice the reaction than what Chris Daniels and Jay Lethal were getting in their championship match at War of the Worlds. Anger is literally blinding you if you think Jack Swagger would get 10% of the reaction Cody is getting in ROH and NJPW where his shirts are outselling everyone

 

[excelsiorlef]

Cody is over in every promotion he goes to and was getting twice the reaction than Chris Daniels and Jay Lethal were getting in their championship match at War of the Worlds. Anger is literally blinding you if you think Jack Swagger would get 10% of the reaction Cody is getting in ROH and NJPW where his shirts are outselling everyone

And Omega blew the house down in his one ROH appearance. Shit he blew the house down doung a pre tape promo for the Scurll and Bucks turning on Cole segment.

Omg he's out popping the great Jay Lethal... what a star.

Again Bucks and Omega have a Hot Topic merch deal. Cody is an afterthought addition to that.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

Cody is over in every promotion he goes to and was getting twice the reaction than what Chris Daniels and Jay Lethal were getting in their championship match at War of the Worlds. Anger is literally blinding you if you think Jack Swagger would get 10% of the reaction Cody is getting in ROH and NJPW where his shirts are outselling everyone

Cody is not moving more merch than LIJ or the Bucks. I doubt Omega too. Absolutely no way.

 

[serenewarfare]

NJPW legitimized him.

I don't buy for a second that Cody is anything

A vast, vast majority of WWE's audience would have never known AJ was in New Japan had WWE's announcers not told them so. So to them, he was already legit. He was only "legitimized" to a niche audience of a niche audience.

I think you are vastly overestimating the reach of New Japan to a casual American wrestling audience.

 

[SallyIsNow]

Cody is over in every promotion he goes to and was getting twice the reaction than what Chris Daniels and Jay Lethal were getting in their championship match at War of the Worlds. Anger is literally blinding you if you think Jack Swagger would get 10% of the reaction Cody is getting in ROH and NJPW where his shirts are outselling everyone

Omega is over in every promotion he goes too as well. Which Cody shirts?

 

[excelsiorlef]

A vast, vast majority of WWE's audience would have never known AJ was in New Japan had WWE's announcers not told them so. So to them, he was already legit. He was only "legitimized" to a niche audience of a niche audience.

I think you are vastly overestimating the reach of New Japan to a casual American wrestling audience.

Possibly...

He was also doing all those US indy shows and ROH shows was he not as part of NJPW?

I mean Bullet Club is super over. You see those tees everywhere.

 

[HeavenlyE]

Omega is over in every promotion he goes too as well. Which Cody shirts?

Cody is not moving more merch than LIJ or the Bucks. I doubt Omega too. Absolutely no way.

Well he could be lying for some reason but https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/873850296182521856

Also I didn't mention Omega I was commenting on that girl's* older posts that Cody Rhodes is at Jack Swagger's level

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well he could be lying for some reason but https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/873850296182521856

Also I didn't mention Omega I was commenting on that guys older posts that Cody Rhodes is at Jack Swagger's level

Girl's

And my god what a whiny man.

He didn't adapt to the style either. He wrestled a mediocre match against a guy with a 5* matvh on his record this yead.

 

[serenewarfare]

Possibly...

He was also doing all those US indy shows and ROH shows was he not as part of NJPW?

I mean Bullet Club is super over. You see those tees everywhere.

My point is that NJPW is not the primary reason he was over when he got to WWE.

It won't be ever for anyone. Nakamura you would think so, but even then that's more down to the NXT hype and general WWE hype machine when it comes to main roster enthusiasm.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

Well he could be lying for some reason but https://twitter.com/CodyRhodes/status/873850296182521856

Also I didn't mention Omega I was commenting on that girl's* older posts that Cody Rhodes is at Jack Swagger's level

Yeah, I don't believe a heel wrestler's twitter posts. Especially when he hangs out with the Bucks who try and piss people off with posts like that constantly (but actually sell obscene levels of merch).

Thinking he outsold LIJ at the very least is insanity.

 

[SallyIsNow]

I don't think AJ would have gotten the reaction and support he did if not for that NJPW run.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't think AJ would have gotten the reaction and support he did if not for that NJPW run.

Agree.

 

[serenewarfare]

I don't think AJ would have gotten the reaction and support he did if not for that NJPW run.

You can argue AJ wouldn't have figured himself out the same way if he didn't go there, but he would have been just as over eventually given the same level of performance.

At best his US indies run helped and that came because of New Japan.

 

[HashtagLapsed]

You can argue AJ wouldn't have figured himself out the same way if he didn't go there, but he would have been just as over eventually given the same level of performance.

At best his US indies run helped and that came because of New Japan.

Honestly, I feel like AJ's best work (that had the most exposure) came from NJPW. I really don't think the reception he received at the rumble came from his runs in TNA and PWG to be honest.

 

[DMczaf]

After tonight, I can officially call Cody "The 3 Star Man"

No matter who you put him in the ring with, he will get you 3 stars. No more. No less.

 

[Maaaaaardy]

After tonight, I can officially call Cody "The 3 Star Man"

No matter who you put him in the ring with, he will get you 3 stars. No more. No less.

Missed him stink the joint out with Zayn at the first Roadblock show as Stardust did you?

Anyway, show was good. Main event was too long, too much unnecessary kicking out and the finish was predictable as soon as they started discussing time around the 45 minute mark. Great match though. Gets the ****3/4 from me, Tana/Naito ****1/4.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Missed him stink the joint out with Zayn at the first Roadblock show as Stardust did you?

Anyway, show was good. Main event was too long, too much unnecessary kicking out and the finish was predictable as soon as they started discussing time around the 45 minute mark. Great match though. Gets the ****3/4 from me, Tana/Naito ****1/4.

There was like 5 or 6 falls in the match...


How do you do a draw without going the distance...

First match went 50 minutes so dunno why at 45 it was obvious to you.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Missed him stink the joint out with Zayn at the first Roadblock show as Stardust did you?

Anyway, show was good. Main event was too long, too much unnecessary kicking out and the finish was predictable as soon as they started discussing time around the 45 minute mark. Great match though. Gets the ****3/4 from me, Tana/Naito ****1/4.

They had very few attempted pinfalls in the match. After most of the big moves both guys were too exhausted to make a cover. NJPW always announce time.

 

[TheStruggler]

i missed the ppv so no spoilers by glancing at this what were the good matches, I see people talking about Cody did he have a good match? Also did omega and Okada live up to the hype since their first match was amazing? no spoilers please

 

[HashtagLapsed]

i missed the ppv so no spoilers by glancing at this what were the good matches, I see people talking about Cody did he have a good match? Also did omega and Okada live up to the hype since their first match was amazing? no spoilers please

It was a great show. People are angry about Cody. Omega and Okada arguably outdid the Dome match.

You should bail on the thread and watch it.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

i missed the ppv so no spoilers by glancing at this what were the good matches, I see people talking about Cody did he have a good match? Also did omega and Okada live up to the hype since their first match was amazing? no spoilers please

My ratings below, no spoilers, but I recommend you to leave the thread quickly as this is not a no spoiler thread.

Cody is seemingly incapable of having a great match, but it was decent as all cody matches tend to be. I thought Okada/Omega 2 was better then 1.

So overall a fantastic show. I'd probably rate it as such:

David Finlay, Shota Umino and Tomoyuki Oka vs. Hirai Kawato, Katsuya Kitamura and Tetsuhiro Yagi
***
Hiroyoshi Tenzan, Jushin Thunder Liger, Manabu Nakanishi and Satoshi Kojima vs. Tiger Mask, Tiger Mask W, Togi Makabe and Yuji Nagata
**¾
Los Ingobernables (Bushi, Evil and Sanada) (c) vs. Bullet Club (Bad Luck Fale, Hangman Page and Yujiro Takahashi) vs. Chaos (Tomohiro Ishii, Toru Yano and Yoshi-Hashi) vs. Suzuki-gun (Taichi, Yoshinobu Kanemaru and Zack Sabre Jr.) vs. Taguchi Japan (Juice Robinson, Ricochet and Ryusuke Taguchi)
***½
Roppongi Vice (Beretta and Rocky Romero) (CHAOS) (c) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson) (Bullet Club)
****½
War Machine (Hanson and Raymond Rowe) (c) vs. Guerrillas of Destiny (Tama Tonga and Tanga Roa) (Bullet Club)
***
Cody (Bullet Club) Vs. Michael Elgin
***
Hiromu Takahashi (c) (Los Ingobernables) vs. Kushida
****½
Minoru Suzuki (c) (Suzuki-Gun) vs. Hirooki Goto (CHAOS)
****¼
Tetsuya Naito (c) (Los Ingobernables) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
****¾
Kazuchika Okada (c)(CHAOS) vs. Kenny Omega (Bullet Club)
*****

 

[TheStruggler]

It was a great show. People are angry about Cody. Omega and Okada arguably outdid the Dome match.

You should bail on the thread and watch it.

My ratings below, no spoilers, but I recommend you to leave the thread quickly as this is not a no spoiler thread.

Cody is incapable of having a great match, but it was decent as all cody matches tend to be. I thought Okada/Omega 2 was better then 1.

thanks guys going to be a great day two E3 conferences then this bad boy, cheers

 

[Syder]

i missed the ppv so no spoilers by glancing at this what were the good matches, I see people talking about Cody did he have a good match? Also did omega and Okada live up to the hype since their first match was amazing? no spoilers please

Just go watch the whole show.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Great show. The apron sunset flip bomb and the top row Back to the Future in Takahashi vs. Kushida were scary as hell. Also I don't get why you'd book Okada crawling at the end, it looked like he had Omega's number again.

 

[Kensation]

Great show. The apron sunset flip bomb and the top row Back to the Future in Takahashi vs. Kushida were scary as hell. Also I don't get why you'd book Okada crawling at the end, it looked like he had Omega's number again.

I'm fine with that. I mean, Okada's the champ, the champ should be the best, so Okada should be "better" than Omega right now. The story is that Okada is "better" but Kenny is closing the gap.