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NPD on the difficulty of launching $60 singleplayer non-GAAS games in today's market

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Yup. I've been noticing this trend too. Good to have data.

GaaS is the future.

Edit :
People are missing the forest from the trees. Mat is saying that, yes, super high quality SP games with great marketing succeed. That's not practical for every game.

It's also notable that a lot of service games that really succeed don't actually review very well in comparison.

Ghost Recon Wildlands (2017's top selling game until Destiny): 70 Metacritic

For Honor (was the #2 2017 game for a long time, then #3): 78 Metacritic

Rainbow Six Siege (has more players on XBL than CoD or Battlefield): 73 Metacritic

Splatoon 2 (I think this is the #2 selling Switch game, though plausibly #3): 83 Metacritic

Destiny (Was the biggest ever new IP launch at the time): 76 Metacritic

The Division (Topped Destiny to become the biggest ever new IP launch): 80 Metacritic

I think we would be pretty pressed to find this many $60 singleplayer games rated in this range this generation that sold well.
 
Lawbreakers was just unfortunate to be launching at a time where Overwatch is still going strong and then having PUBG take over the whole first part of the year. They even marketed the game fairly well

Well I figured out why I thought AoM was multi-player. My brain turned it and lawbreakers into one game.
 
Budgets have been growing long before this model. The switch to HD graphics blew AAA budgets sky high, and relying solely on one $60 purchase does not cut it anymore. That's why we saw the massive DLC push last gen, online passes, season passes, and now loot boxes.

No one told developers and publishers to have such outrageous marketing budgets, and if devs would stop chasing higher fidelity and try to innovate in other areas (like A.I) they could conceivably control costs better. There are devs that do this without microtransactions.

I like GaaS. You like making general sweeping accusations. I felt quite satisfied with the likes of Destiny 2 and Overwatch recently.

Good for you? You sound like a custodian I used to work with who was so happy that after losing so much money at a casino they would comp him a free room now and then. I'm quite satisfied with Destiny 2 and have spent $0 on their microtransactions.

I know why devs do this kind of thing, but I will never support it.
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
With 40$ masterpieces coming out like Divinity: Original Sin 2, likely made on a tenth of the budget of modern games, I don't weep for these 'AAA' titles.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
It's easy to point to the...dozen or so successful $60 single player retail titles a year and say the space is "fine" while forgetting that there used to be dozen and dozens a year. Sure a lot less bad games are getting made. A lot of good games are failing too
 
I figured this was what you meant. People are going to have to understand going forward that "service game" doesn't mean only something like OverWatch or Rocket League where the focus is entirely on multiplayer.

All "Service Game" means is that the game is supported with post-launch updates and content that extends the tail. If a game is worked on post-launch beyond just bug fixes and patching, it's a service game.
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Mainstream SP AAA games have been shackled for years by their bloated budgets so this doesn't concern me one bit.

Look. I like Battle Chasers too, but if all SP games started to look like Battle Chasers I'd quit gaming. I like a variety--and that includes the big budget expensive titles like Horizon.

It's also notable that a lot of service games that really succeed don't actually review very well in comparison.

Ghost Recon Wildlands (2017's top selling game until Destiny): 70 Metacritic

For Honor (was the #2 2017 game for a long time, then #3): 78 Metacritic

Rainbow Six Siege (has more players on XBL than CoD or Battlefield): 73 Metacritic

Splatoon 2 (I think this is the #2 selling Switch game): 83 Metacritic

Destiny (Was the biggest ever new IP launch at the time): 76 Metacritic

The Division (Topped Destiny to become the biggest ever new IP launch): 80 Metacritic

I think we would be pretty pressed to find this many $60 singleplayer games rated in this range this generation that sold well.

Shit. Those sub-80 scores though. Can you blame publishers? If they can make a game that does stupid numbers and it doesn't matter what reviewers give the game? They've been trying to figure out a way to make money in spite of mediocre scores for years and this seems to be it.
 
I still love a good quality single player game but if the game is poor quality and no multiplayer that is fun at least then for sure people are not gonna buy that.

Uncharted, God of War, Horizon ZD, Zelda... are all single player games and i have no problem buying them because they're very good games.

It's all about value, if you don't get your money worth then no buy. Agent of Mayhem always looked like a bad game for 60$ (80$ Canadian).

But i agree that there's a trend for multiplayer/service based games because people like to play with friends and the whole social thing, it has a much better value for the new age customer of videogames.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
GaaS can kiss my ass

Traditional wholesome gaming experiences for me, not this "Did you log on today to grind out a challenge for a chance to unlock a loot box for a chance to unlock exotic loot"
 

Rasec46

Neo Member
The article has some point but one thing i find weird is that this contradicts a bit agains a older article where it said that more than half the PS4 users don't have PS Plus.

I would think this would mean that single player focused games should sell a lot still since a lot of people don't pay to have online.
 

UberTag

Member
Singleplayer games aren't overpriced.
GAAS games are underpriced... especially the ones that offer a good portion of their content free-of-charge.
They should arguably be launched at $99.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Singleplayer games aren't overpriced.
GAAS games are underpriced... especially the ones that offer a good portion of their content free-of-charge.
They should arguably be launched at $99.
They use price discrimination. Why charge everyone $99 when you can charge some people $60 and others $500?

The article has some point but one thing i find weird is that this contradicts a bit agains a older article where it said that more than half the PS4 users don't have PS Plus.

I would think this would mean that single player focused games should sell a lot still since a lot of people don't pay to have online.
A lot of those people don't buy many games. They might just buy a sports game every year and then maybe something like GTA when it comes out.

Multiplayer gamers are very attractive because they're very high revenue and high profit and are eager consumers of games.
 

PantsuJo

Member
Yup. I've been noticing this trend too. Good to have data.

GaaS is the future.

Edit :
People are missing the forest from the trees. Mat is saying that, yes, super high quality SP games with great marketing succeed. That's not practical for every game.
If GaaS is the future, then these are my last years of gaming. And I accept this fact.
 

Jumeira

Banned
My problem with GaaS, is that i feel extra pressure to keep up with the community, as if I'll get lost if im not up to date or playing regularly. With SP games, i control progress, not the other way round.

I usually steer clear of games like Overwatch, Destiny etc, i just dont have the stamina to play all the time or try to maintain my characters. I am.looking forward to Sea of Thieves which looks more leisurely then the others, but i much prefer SP gaming.
 
I still love a good quality single player game but if the game is poor quality and no multiplayer that is fun at least then for sure people are not gonna buy that.

Uncharted, God of War, Horizon ZD, Zelda... are all single player games and i have no problem buying them because they're very good games.

It's all about value, if you don't get your money worth then no buy. Agent of Mayhem always looked like a bad game for 60$ (80$ Canadian).

But i agree that there's a trend for multiplayer/service based games because people like to play with friends and the whole social thing, it has a much better value for the new age customer of videogames.
I wouldn't worry about big budget single player games from Sony or Nintendo, Sony has had a lot of success with SP and not a lot of success with multiplayer/GaaS titles so they will probably stick with what works for them. Nintendo is obviously going to continue to produce SP content, as their most popular franchises fit that mold and the multiplayer spinoffs haven't performed nearly as well (they do a good job creating new Multiplayer IP though, like Splatoon and Arms). Indies and smaller publishers will serve the SP market also, as they usually have lower budgets and don't need astronomical sales to do well, plus they target the core audience who is more SP focused. If you are a big publisher like EA or Activision or Ubisoft, GaaS appears to be the way to go.
 

M3d10n

Member
Single-player experiences still have a place but you cannot expect high lifetime sales out of a $60 game where players basically interact with a very linear story through 8~20 hours and then have nothing else of significance to do other than considering trading the game in for credit towards a new one.

This is specially true in the age of Twitch and YouTube. If players have no reason to return to your game after playing for a couple days, the potential for exposure on Twitch and YouTube is greatly diminished, and so is your viral potential among potential customers.

So single-player games need to adapt to the new landscape. There are several tools that can be used: open-world and open-world-like design, RPG elements (this is an old one that is still valid), loot, building mechanics, user-generated-content, regular content updates (free and/or paid), emergent gameplay, procedurally generated content, etc. Not all of them apply to every game, of course, but need to be considered.
 

Xumbrega

Banned
Nirolak should put a disclaimer on OP saying that GaaS isn't multiplayer games only, lol. People are overreacting over this.

It seems that the name GaaS is tainted here on GAF.
 

Welfare

Member
No one told developers and publishers to have such outrageous marketing budgets, and if devs would stop chasing higher fidelity and try to innovate in other areas (like A.I) they could conceivably control costs better. There are devs that do this without microtransactions.

That simply isn't possible if you are making a AAA game. Consumers want better graphics and you can't screenshot "good A.I." and you need to market your game to oblivion, otherwise other games get more spotlight.

Yes, others have success without doing all of that, however, it is the safer bet to include features of GaaS. Pubs want to chase these growing figures online games are having like GTA Online along with wanting more money after the initial purchase.
 
Not single mention to backlog and sales or price cuts?

Well, here is my two cents:
- With games as a service part of the fun is getting there while there is a large playerbase and everyone is figuring the game out. So it is better to be day one.

- With single player games, yes, you can be on forums discussing stuff as well, but it is not as necessary as for GaaS.

- Add that lots of us probably have some backlog, so we can simply wait and buy it cheaper a few months later.

Sometimes I try to show my support being day one lots for indie games or AAA that I have interest but not many people do (I got Dishonered 2 day one afraid of this).
 

JarrodL

Member
Witcher 3 and Breath of the Wild have DLC, which is a type of GAAS.

You can't say Witcher 3 and BotW were successful because they were GAAS though, since they were both a success before they got any DLC. And I'm sure Agents of Mayhem would get DLC too (like the last Saints Row game) if only the sales warranted investing even more development budget into that.
 

Koozek

Member
All "Service Game" means is that the game is supported with post-launch updates and content that extends the tail. If a game is worked on post-launch beyond just bug fixes and patching, it's a service game.
Yeah. SE actually does consider something like FFXV a GaaS with its monthly patches, regular timed events, free story patches in the coming months and well into 2018, free DLC (e.g. the Assassin's Creed cross-over collabo), Season Pass with content for a whole year after launch (and now they're planning even another year of support with a second Season Pass), an upcoming multiplayer DLC etc. Ultimately it's still singleplayer game, just with a constant stream of new content to further enjoy the game post-launch as a fan and it also helps sustaining retention and increasing the sales legs. People freaked out after the recent thread about SE's president saying that they'll be focusing more on GaaS in the future and thought this meant multiplayer-only FF with loot boxes and whatnot.
 

jrcbandit

Member
Guess I'll need a new primary hobby in the future, GAAS doesn't interest me. Also, I thought a big problem with GAAS was that when a really popular one hits, people play that exclusively for months without buying any other games?

I still don't understand how For Honor sold so well. No one played it any more after a few weeks.
 

Some Nobody

Junior Member
You can't say Witcher 3 and BotW were successful because they were GAAS though, since they were both a success before they got any DLC. I'm sure Agents of Mayhem would get DLC too (like the last Saints Row game) if only the sales warranted that.

They still go in the pile, though. It's important to note this because otherwise people start to work under the impression that in the future AAA titles will only be Overwatch and Destiny.
 

Pachael

Member
Incidentally, those games likely don't fall under the definition of a traditional single player game as they have a fair bit of DLC available for them (P5 especially), and both do have passive multiplayer elements to them (the poll for what to do on a specific day in P5, the YoRHa elements in Nier Automata that wind up playing a major role in the game's plot).

Whilst I don't totally agree as these games are primarily played as a SP campaign and these games haven't really been updated since release in terms of additional events, updates and so on, but I guess the line is blur these days with the MP hooks. As a comparison, FFXV is closer to a service game with multiple updates through the past 12 months, AC collaboration and so on.

Thinking about this further, P5 did do well as many are fond of its predecessor and to an extent, the brand was marketed widely, while Nier:A is closer to an exception to this as it follows a less popular Nier but is still a sequel.

I suggest that while it's difficult enough to launch a SP non-service game at $60 in today's market, it becomes doubly hard if it's not based off an existing brand or franchise. Part of AoM's issue in marketing is related to how its relationship with Saint's Row wasn't broadcast
 
I don't play anything outside of single player 60 dollar games. I buy expansion packs for those games but that's it. I have tried to go beyond them but I just despise everything eventually no matter how open minded I am. I just don't care for competitive gaming or mmo games or "service" games, etc. Every year I fear will be the year the industry decides to move past dinosaurs like me. I'm just not sure what else they can do to make single player games more profitable.
 
Yeah its going to be difficult if the industry is making any more games like Agents Of Mayhem. People arent going to keep paying $60 for a game that should cost half that when there's so much else to play.

Youve got single player games that people buy still like Zelda, Mario, Resident Evil, Nier Automata, Horizon Zero Dawn, Mario Kart 8, Crash, Persona...
 

tebunker

Banned
No one told developers and publishers to have such outrageous marketing budgets, and if devs would stop chasing higher fidelity and try to innovate in other areas (like A.I) they could conceivably control costs better. There are devs that do this without microtransactions.

It is called Wall St and earnings and Growth% as well as gross/net margin.

These decisions aren't driven by tech choices or controlling costs etc.

All of these decisions, specifically for publicly held publishers, are made to drive the metrics that wall st cares about. Sadly other non-traded companies who espouse to be like those bigger pubs do the same shit.

Many many many more times these decisions are to maximize the opportunity to hit the best metrics come quarterly earnings. This is a corporate problem in many industries. Short term gains essentially.

You mentioned a game by Larian, that was self published, and crowd funded, these things allowed for them to not have to focus on those things.

It sucks. I wish we lived in a world where corporations focused on producing great customer oriented products and services, but the stock markets have all but killed those sentiments.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Quality only has a coefficient of determination of 30% or less, in most cases, to sales.

Meaning differences in quality can explain only about 30% of the variability in sales.

That's why I say that it has to be a great game, with great marketing and promotion, to get to the charts.

I really wish you'd take a moment to read and think through the things I post before you reflexively go to the reply button to tell me I'm wrong about arguments I'm not even making. You do this all the time. It doesn't have to be this way.
I hit the reply button because I disagree with OP quote... now if you don’t want people disagreeing with you lol

A lot of SP games with quality sold well this year... a lot of service like games with bad quality sold bad this year.

While devs try to sell bad quality games they will fail no matter if it is a service, SP, MP, etc.

The own example in the OP is a bad game that sold bad... it is not related to being a service or SP game.
 

Ahasverus

Member
All this doom and gloom bores me. Bad games don't sell, who knew.

I think it's linearity the one that is in death row, not single player games. The "infinite gameplay" thing also applies to single player sandboxes.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I just wish devs figured out how to make more service-based singleplayer games. I think it's possible.

Hopefully Wolfenstein 2 is successful.

Bethesda seems to be the last big third party publisher really doing this kind of game at all.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
I'm all about $60 singleplayer non-GAAS games, so this saddens me. That type of game better not stop being made.

EDIT: Wait, any DLC makes it a GAAS game? So Breath of the Wild is GAAS? Uh, okay then.
 

Stygr

Banned
Plenty of SP games sell just fine. Agents of Mayhem was a SP Hero Shooter with nothing going for it.

But hey, let's push that GaaS is the way to go for devs, because why control your budget and focus on making a compelling product when you can just milk customers through microtransactions?

Budgets are out of control and gamers are getting less for their $60 than ever before.

And plenty of them are selling below average, Dishonored 2, Prey, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, 3 good games with poor sales, storic franchises in SP are selling good, Open World RPG's are selling good.
 

Surfside

Banned
I love my mp games, just not at the expense of my sp games. But the trend is clear for a while now, with less AAA single player games being made because of how expensive they are to develop. They are also harder to monetize than mp games. Also we as consumers seem to make a conscious choice in how much we are willing to pay for games with shorter content.

But it seems indies have picked up the pace in developing these shorter games. Really it feels like one has slmost too much to play as there is an abundance in variety. If it stays this way i think the industry will do just fine, with the bigger pubs focusing on GaaS, and the smaller ones filling the niches whith what's missing (i include the big 3 in this as they have to worry about, how much variety their cosole catalogs provide).
 

Stygr

Banned
It's not about quality, Wildlands is a garbage game imho with around 70 metacritic and it's the best selling game on consoles this year, PUBG is slighty better, has some issues, and it sold 12 million in 6 months, that's insane.
 
And plenty of them are selling below average, Dishonored 2, Prey, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, 3 good games with poor sales, storic franchises in SP are selling good, Open World RPG's are selling good.

Deus Ex sold poorly due to them putting in one time use microtransactions, cutting content from the game, and sequel baiting.

Prey also suffered backlash from what happened with the original team and Bethesda being shady.

There are other factors at work besides being a good game. Square-Enix and Bethesda do a great job of shooting devs in the foot sometimes.
 

Stygr

Banned
I just wish devs figured out how to make more service-based singleplayer games. I think it's possible.



Bethesda seems to be the last big third party publisher really doing this kind of game at all.

Dishonored underperformed and Prey too, Next Arkane studio game will be a GAAS probably.

DOOM has multiplayer, Quake is multiplayer online, we have TESO and TES Legends, we still have Wolfenstein 2 and TEW2 and i hope they will do good
 

illamap

Member
I find myself increasingly bored with SP games, realisticly best asset of SP games compared to online focused Gaas game is story, and let's face how many games have a good story? Barely any.

For me games are about gameplay and Gaas type games with coop are often excellent. I get my cravings of story from movies, series' and books.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I'm all about $60 singleplayer non-GAAS games, so this saddens me. That type of game better not stop being made.

EDIT: Wait, any DLC makes it a GAAS game? So Breath of the Wild is GAAS? Uh, okay then.
There is still a discrepancy in the sales of non-multiplayer games versus multiplayer games.

For example, most would agree that Hitman is very much a service game despite being a singleplayer title, but it also sold at the "We're dumping this studio." level.
 
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