It's not so much that people buy a game because of inevitable DLC/expansions (though there probably is, not sure if data is out there to back it up) but knowing a game you invest in will continue to be supported says a lot for consumers to have confidence in that they're getting a quality product. Also, because of this, I'm sure there's some sort of impact for this strategy to deter reselling games since people might be less inclined to do that if they know an expansion will be out in X months. Games like Destiny advertise DLC in the base game and Nintendo even announced Splatoon 2 would have at least an entire year of support.
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NPD on the difficulty of launching $60 singleplayer non-GAAS games in today's market
It's not so much that people buy a game because of inevitable DLC/expansions (though there probably is, not sure if data is out there to back it up) but knowing a game you invest in will continue to be supported says a lot for consumers to have confidence in that they're getting a quality product. Also, because of this, I'm sure there's some sort of impact for this strategy to deter reselling games since people might be less inclined to do that if they know an expansion will be out in X months. Games like Destiny advertise DLC in the base game and Nintendo even announced Splatoon 2 would have at least an entire year of support.
Never a dime from me. Not once. Not even for PSN.
Here is to hoping that you are wrong.
NullPointer
Member
Is that really the practical definition? Because there's one hell of a spectrum between "a game with updates" and some always-online, microtransaction laden monstrosity, which is the first thing I fear when people ever bring up GaaS.
Obliterator
Member
Huh? I'm not fighting against gaming media and I'm pretty much a no show in almost all of those types of threads.
I'm just speaking the truth. Does Ubisoft want SIEGE to get high scores from gaming media? Of course they do. But at the end of the day if the question is would they rather have dedicated media score their game highly or have streamers raving about / playing it they are going to care far more about the streamers / mass media word of mouth.
I mean its not a coincidence that these huge service games that sell multiple millions of units also don't score highly very often with critics. And that's because they are out of touch with the mainstream gamer. They are enthusiasts themselves, and thus their scores and opinions will reflect that.
I do think the dedicated gaming media's scores have some sort of impact on games targeted to that style of gamer, but the thing is Destiny, SIEGE, Wildlands, For Honor, etc are all trying to get the broadest and largest pool of gamers they can. Not to tell some sort of rich cinematic story when most people who play games don't even come close to finishing them anyways
Papacheeks
Banned
If your talking horizon zero dawn then 100% no.
It has basically 1 DLC that came way after the game was announced and there was no season pass to be bought when the game released.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah I don't consider things like Witcher or Horizon really GaaS. They have too little DLC too spread out.
I think a more accurate examples of single player GaaS titles would be Final Fantasy XV and Shadow of War. Both games with an extensive DLC plan, adding new modes, and in the case of SoW even loot boxes.
I think a more accurate examples of single player GaaS titles would be Final Fantasy XV and Shadow of War. Both games with an extensive DLC plan, adding new modes, and in the case of SoW even loot boxes.
Phrozenflame500
Member
It definitely seems like the majority of the gaming market have selected GAAS titls over oneshot titles, so I can't be too surprised at this.
You know what would be a nice middle ground?
Complete, fully-developed games upon release, with nothing held back as "future" DLC, with genuinely developed after the fact optional content provided as DLC as a service. Or, as old school PC players used to call them - expansion packs. In order for games as a service to be tenable, companies first need to do proper service to the original games, as original games; not as frameworks for trickle-up economics.
Complete, fully-developed games upon release, with nothing held back as "future" DLC, with genuinely developed after the fact optional content provided as DLC as a service. Or, as old school PC players used to call them - expansion packs. In order for games as a service to be tenable, companies first need to do proper service to the original games, as original games; not as frameworks for trickle-up economics.
MatPiscatella
Member
The stakes are much higher, agreed. If you win, you win big. If you don't...
I hear you. Not all service types will appeal to all consumers. But, the bigger the consumer base gets, the more things will appeal.
The plus side of this is all the cool niche games that are making it to market now that never would have 10 years ago.
Perhaps longer term you're correct. At the moment, however, this doesn't seem to be the case.
GAAS broadly means a game that is updated after release. The game wants you to come back and play so it offers additional service.
And its still GASS since their updating the game after release. There not being a season pass doesnt matter.
Vinsanity.
Member
That used to be just Nintendo games not too long ago, but even Nintendo games are starting to push that line..
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Play hellblade and come back to us after.
JamesHolden
Banned
MIddle ground for who? SP gamers who are resisting GaaS? The popularity of GaaS shows publishers probably don't need this middle ground to induce a small niche of gamers to join what is now mainstream.
Otakumegane
Member
Fire Emblem being the most notorious of this practice but I don't think the things like the Zelda Season Pass qualify.
Baraka Obama
Banned
Not as simple as that buddy
Vinsanity.
Member
Man, I might have to disagree...that Zelda Season Pass with added difficulty level and added cosmetic outfits? That's pushing the line for Nintendo into GaaS territory..
Obliterator
Member
Totally agreed. And I'm really interested to watch in the coming years studios and publishers experimenting a bit with different price points for more traditional single player experiences. Seeing things like Hellblade, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Dishonored Death of the Outsider, and Knack 2 all recently hitting for $40 or less is a very interesting shift and something I hope we see more of. It's hard for dedicated more linear single player games to compete for consumers $60 compared to the massive open world games and online experiences but I think there is room there at cheaper prices
Yeah I think Zelda can for sure be argued as being a GaaS
There have been doing GAAS for over a decade. Animal Crossing is a GAAS since it encourages you to play daily and they successfully added multiplayer to their main line Mario games and added multiplayer in several Zelda games.
Given that it took months to add DLC pack one, I doubt the hard mode was completed before the game launched. Only the new armor perhaps.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Nah, that is GaaS too. Matt commented on it (not Zelda specifically but what qualifies as GaaS) earlier.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Thats how Square Enix described it.
prag16
Banned
This. Horizon absolutely IS NOT GaaS to anywhere near the degree of something like The Division et al. I think we're getting into muddy semantics here.
CountAntonius
Member
Honestly can't remember that last single player only game I've bought let alone at 60 dollars. Too many good options around to go for a game that will probably be one and done.
It was this way before the word "service" got attached to anything. Call of Duty, GTA, and Bethesda games were outselling most everything on the same platforms last gen. Wii games that had no conventional "end" outsold Super Mario Galaxy. The problem this time for games that you finish is that the limitless replay value games are absorbing a lot more money along with a lot more time. When people see DLC episodes or microtransactions shoehorned into a game that does not logically accommodate them, they just keep pouring money into the game they are already playing.
Looking at some of the digital or PC games that have done well without falling into that category, I would say variable pricing is the ticket, but publishers are not going to do it. They would seemingly rather let a bunch of games bomb at $59.99 in hopes that one of them sticks and turns into a cash sprinkler.
Looking at some of the digital or PC games that have done well without falling into that category, I would say variable pricing is the ticket, but publishers are not going to do it. They would seemingly rather let a bunch of games bomb at $59.99 in hopes that one of them sticks and turns into a cash sprinkler.
If there are 500 high profile $60 multiplayer games and 10 high profile $60 single player games, you cant point at the top 20 for any perspective. There are far more AAA MP games than SP...
And you cannot point to a singular SP games failure. Lawbreakers is discounted AND MP only and it bombed.
This is just more slant analysis to push an agenda.
And you cannot point to a singular SP games failure. Lawbreakers is discounted AND MP only and it bombed.
This is just more slant analysis to push an agenda.
DriftingSpirit
Member
It just indicates a wide range.
Papacheeks
Banned
GAAS is a game that was produced with it being content updated. Horizon didn't have a plan for content until after, and didn't design the game around that. Wither 3 was made knowing there would be expansions.
2 different stories. GAAS is to me more or less with content being added weekly to monthly over the course of a fiscal year.
Gear of war 4 is a example of that, it had a season pass pre it's release, had monthly updates along with monthly buy-able items. Has an actual built in store.
Uncharted 4 is another similar example of GAAS. Had a road map for content roll out, has a store for purchasable DLC, and is constantly being updated with new content.
Horizon was not, it has had the one DLC, and was not part of it's roadmap, which it didn't even have one when they game was announced and released.
GAAS to me is a game that is constantly being updated with new buyable content either it be maps, items(skins, weapons), or actual campaign add on/expansions.
Content isn't being updated to Horizon on a monthly basis and it doesn't have a in-game store where you can use real money for items.
Very different games.
I think it makes more sense to split it into games with expansions and the type of games that actually majorly evolve over time.
Like I would group Hitman or Final Fantasy XV into a Games as a Service model for primarily singleplayer games, but I think a game that launches, gets some mild updates, and then gets DLC makes more sense at this point to call "Updated And Expanded" or something like that, even though it's clearly part o the Games as a Service philosophy.
That or give the two variant models different names, but most products that are pushing Games as a Service are clearly online (or at least co-op) oriented titles that evolve notably over time.
To give an example, when publishers announce they're getting into "games as a service" or "live services" in investor calls, they're basically never saying "We're going to put out more DLC for our singleplayer only titles." They just say they're expanding their DLC investment and post launch revenue or things along those lines for those games. What they really mean is that they're investing in more multiplayer oriented games, usually with microtransactions and monthly or quarterly updates.
tokenflipguy
Member
I agree it's depressing. I do like some GaaS games like R6:Siege, but most of the time I play RPGs/Action games.
Yearsoflurking
Member
I played hellblade. It's short and hollow next?
UnderWaterTree
Member
a good amount people probably don't beat SP games or just trade them after a week with a game with dlc they hold off on it for a bit really the pure no dlc SP games will the ones that will take the hit the most
I play video games almost exclusively for single player experiences, so it makes me sad to see how much struggle there is to make them sell. At least indies are here to keep those experiences alive.
Games as a Service.
Games as a Service.
Uno Venova
Banned
Can't wait for the GAAS crash.
Games that get updated over a long period rather than the developer making a new game.
CSGO
R6 Siege
Warframe
Paladins
Overwatch
Etc etc etc.
The only problem is that people are going to say anything with DLC is GaaS which not true. The way GTA IV and GTA V have been handled post launch could not be more different. GTA V is a true "service game" that will still be getting content updates well past the five year mark.
I don't have a problem with new content getting released and people considering what is worth their time and money. But I am about done with loot box games that throw XP at people for doing nothing. It kills objective modes, or worse, creates rampant scamming, and God have mercy on anyone trying to deal with customer service at one of these companies.
NullPointer
Member
Nirolak has you covered just two posts up from yours:
[url]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=250323068&postcount=227[/URL]
And thanks Nirolak, that makes sense. I can run with "Games as a Service are clearly online (or at least co-op) oriented titles that evolve notably over time."
That doesnt matter since Horizon is being updated. It doesnt matter if the update was done before or after release. And they would have planned for DLC long time ago, they just didnt tell the public until after release.
This isnt about your personally definition of GAAS. This is what GAAS is. Its a broad term.
Bolivar687
Banned
It's been really sad watching so many subgenres and then entire full fledged genres disappearing, now something as broad as "single player" self-contained experiences are fading away as well.
How much longer can an industry continue homogenizing itself like this? I honestly can't even think of anything huge I'm looking forward to in the next year.
How much longer can an industry continue homogenizing itself like this? I honestly can't even think of anything huge I'm looking forward to in the next year.
BigEmil
Junior Member
Too many nowadays see single player games as one and done then sell off games
While GaaS games people keep it and come back to it when new stuff added and Multiplayer games people think infinite replayability so they never sell it
Lots of people rent single player games too mainly
While GaaS games people keep it and come back to it when new stuff added and Multiplayer games people think infinite replayability so they never sell it
Lots of people rent single player games too mainly
I think it has already passed its tipping point.
Particularly for $60 barebones frameworks sold as games.
See: Capcom. "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru" indeed.
Jeronimo Jones
Member
I'll probably always prefer deep single player experiences, a void that GaaS types can't fill.
But the proliferation of daily check-ins, slow progress, multiplayer/online focus, and dedicating hours to get to the best gear/content in so many GaaS will definitely push me towards old school single player games in the future and out of the primary market.
But the proliferation of daily check-ins, slow progress, multiplayer/online focus, and dedicating hours to get to the best gear/content in so many GaaS will definitely push me towards old school single player games in the future and out of the primary market.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Single player isnt going away, as long as they have a good metacritic score they are still doing well.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Actually, no. That's not what a GaaS is and Horizon certainly isn't one. Having patches and DLC doesn't consistute a service game because Horizon isn't made with the same kind of retention or monetisation goals as a game like Overwatch or Destiny.
How would Arkane even switch? That studio has basically only made immersive sims for its entire existence, and no one has figured out how to make those service-based. Mankind Divided was an attempt from Square Enix and all we got from it was Breach Mode.
Papacheeks
Banned
Tell that to HeroR
Right now as the definition is, almost every game is GAAS except for indie stuff. I mean DLC 9 months later isn't really a service. It's a put it down and maybe I'll pick it up again to buy the DLc. Where as adding scoring modes, online challenges, dailies etc in the middle of all of that and then dropping a dlc pack fits more imo. FFXV and Zelda and something like Fallout 4 makes sense. But if ex. Prey were to get a dlc add on next year I don't consider that a service game. It's not servicing the existing players keeping them hanging on
Sad Affleck
Member
I can't wait until the law catches up and governments around the world regulate lootboxes and microtransactions. Somebody has to put a stop to this predatory bullshit.
MatPiscatella
Member
Simply false. Utterly and totally false.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I know GaaS is all the hype nowadays but I think we're in a good position now where there's still plenty of quality single player games being released. This year alone:
Horizon Zero Dawn
Breath of the Wild
Nier Automata
Persona 5
Prey
Dishonored Death of the Outsider
Mario & Rabbids
Mario Odyssey
Wolfenstein 2
Assassins Creed Origins (sure it'll feature Ubisoft online integration but its single player first and foremost)
I think this is why the success of Switch is so important to this industry. As a hybrid its not really suited to always online GaaS type games and we've seen a lot of traditional games achieve success on there.
Horizon Zero Dawn
Breath of the Wild
Nier Automata
Persona 5
Prey
Dishonored Death of the Outsider
Mario & Rabbids
Mario Odyssey
Wolfenstein 2
Assassins Creed Origins (sure it'll feature Ubisoft online integration but its single player first and foremost)
I think this is why the success of Switch is so important to this industry. As a hybrid its not really suited to always online GaaS type games and we've seen a lot of traditional games achieve success on there.
LastGamer84
Member
Yep. Games as Services will only last so long as loopholes in gambling remain. If it was more heavily regulated/flagged as gambling then some devs would go out of business.