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[GK86]

Link.

A decade ago, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York offered a plan to ease traffic in Manhattan and raise hundreds of millions of dollars to improve the city’s aging infrastructure. Drivers would be charged $8 to enter the most congested parts of Manhattan during peak commuting hours.

The plan was crushed in Albany, derailed before it was even brought for a vote.

Now, with the city’s subways in crisis — with daily delays increasingly common and its equipment in dire condition — Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who once doubted that congestion pricing would gain any traction in the state, is planning to resurrect the idea and will expend political capital to see it succeed.

“Congestion pricing is an idea whose time has come,” Mr. Cuomo said. He declined to provide specifics about how the plan would work and what it would charge, but said that he had been meeting with “interested parties” for months and that the plan would probably be substantially different from Mr. Bloomberg’s proposal.

“We have been going through the problems with the old plan and trying to come up with an updated and frankly better congestion pricing plan,” Mr. Cuomo said. A key priority is making it as palatable as possible to commuters from the suburbs and boroughs outside Manhattan without undercutting the primary goals: providing a dedicated funding stream for the transit system, while reducing traffic squeezing onto some of the country’s most gridlocked streets.

Congestion pricing is also no longer such a novel concept. Cities across the world, like London and Stockholm, have adopted systems that have succeeded in reducing traffic and improving public transit.

Still, the politics of congestion pricing remain thorny.

For one, the tax plan supported by Mr. de Blasio, who is also a Democrat, has also previously failed to gain support in Albany.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

No. Fuck this. Always inventing a new way to suck money out of already over taxed citizens.

Fix the god damned subways if you want to reduce energy traffic. Until then people gonna catch a cab and call Uber.

 

[titiklabingapat]

It's the only thing we haven't tried...that actually works.

 

[Guevara]

Good luck, dude. Better politicians than you have tried it.

 

[Frester]

Doesn't this already exist in London? Curious to know how it's worked there if so. I take the subway 99.9% of the time I'm going anywhere in the city. It has problems for sure, but I grew up outside of DC so by comparison the MTA is vastly superior.

 

[Sinfamy]

Build suspended highways above and through buildings.
Build a Pangu.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Good. Tax the people who use the roads, discourage their use by those who don't need them thereby making them better for those that do, and use the money to improve public and alternate forms of transit.

 

[Slayer-33]

Hahaha, no fuck that

 

[Frozenprince]

Pretty sure y'all can afford to fiz the damn roads and the damn subway.

 

[TarNaru33]

Eh... I don't know how I feel about this as I would think it would just lead to a shift in traffic to other areas to avoid paying (like taking back roads to avoid toll highways) unless they are going to block all exits/entrances with this idea to keep that from happening.

London is said to have it, if it really can lead to improvement in infrastructure, it would be silly not to I guess. Although I was lead to believe that NY's subway issue was not because they didn't have the funds.

Build suspended highways.

I legit can't tell if you are being serious lol.. If you are, that is just stupid. We are talking about navigating inside the city, not navigating from city to city. They just need to increase mass transit and have it be on time without having so many delays.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Or legalize weed and use the taxes to pay for this shit. Win/Win.

 

[Verelios]

That is pure garbage. Fix the roads and do some actual infrastructure instead of siphoning more money to bullshit.

 

[CrocMother]

He's right, this is a great way to discourage congestion and raise money for repairs. Ya'll seem to think that NYC has enough money to fix this stuff. They really don't.

 

[Fenderputty]

Is NY like California in that all the taxes we pass for road work gets taken for other uses?

In LA they were going to do lane reductions to reduce traffic. Most stupid things LA dems have ever proposed. The city is urban sprawl. Fix public transportation before you start making politicy forcing people off the roads.

 

[entremet]

Cuomo has been horrible.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Cuomo has been horrible.

Really has been. Absolute trash.

 

[Verelios]

He's right, this is a great way to discourage congestion and raise money for repairs. Ya'll seem to think that NYC has enough money to fix this stuff. They really don't.

The subway has been almost (literally) a wreck for two months now. I see people working down there all the time but the lines keep stalling. Shouldn't that be first priority?

 

[CrocMother]

I'm surprised people here are so against this idea tbh.

This helps accomplish two important goals at once. Reduce pollution from cars, and bolster public transportation.

 

[tbm24]

He's right, this is a great way to discourage congestion and raise money for repairs. Ya'll seem to think that NYC has enough money to fix this stuff. They really don't.

I agree, NYC needs this. The congestion is fucking absurd and that trickles into the rest of the boroughs at rush hour slowing eveeything down in all the boroughs.

 

[XGRaViSmOrSX]

Oh cool, more money to be siphoned off by these pricks in Albany.

 

[Fox318]

No. Fuck this. Always inventing a new way to suck money out of already over taxed citizens.

Fix the god damned subways if you want to reduce energy traffic. Until then people gonna catch a cab and call Uber.

Very much this.

Everyone thinking that the money from a tax like this would solve anything is wrong here. They need to change the infrastructure in the city not try and put a patch on it by limiting traffic.

 

[tbm24]

Very much this.

Everyone thinking that the money from a tax like this would solve anything is wrong here. They need to change the infrastructure in the city not try and put a patch on it by limiting traffic.

I mean, what do you think they can conceivably fix that would ease congestion in manhattan into the boroughs during rush hour.

 

[TarNaru33]

Very much this.

Everyone thinking that the money from a tax like this would solve anything is wrong here. They need to change the infrastructure in the city not try and put a patch on it by limiting traffic.

I think you are the one who is wrong here. It isn't JUST to limit traffic, but in theory offer more revenue to improve the infrastructure of the city.

 

[sangreal]

Aren't the clowns in Albany the ones who blocked this when Bloomberg wanted to do it and had all the money lined up from the feds?

I see this is covered but what I don't see is what has changed since then other than an opportunity for Cuomo to get credit for it

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Is it actually feasible to get around Manhattan in a car in any case (not from there, obviously)? I wouldn't drive anywhere near the centre of most British cities, let alone London.

 

[tbm24]

Aren't the clowns in Albany the ones who blocked this when Bloomberg wanted to do it and had all the money lined up from the feds?

Cuomo likely has all their puppies hostage somewhere this time around.

Is it actually feasible to get around Manhattan in a car in any case? I wouldn't drive anywhere near the centre of most British cities, let alone London.

It is, just don't do it if you can avoid it. My daughter was born in mid town. Maneuvering my way out of manhattan with a 3 day old in the car earned me a badge of honor for patience.

 

[JABEE]

How would this even work? Is it just a flat, regressive toll or would you get charged more for say using a tractor trailer? Is there any way to generate revenues to improve the roads in Manhattan by taxing the ultra-wealthy companies that conduct businesses in this part of the city?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Can't wait for the over-congested trains to further fall into disrepair with the cramming of more people who don't want to be charged.

 

[Vinsanity.]

Is it actually feasible to get around Manhattan in a car in any case (not from there, obviously)? I wouldn't drive anywhere near the centre of most British cities, let alone London.

I drove around Manhattan when we were there on vacation a couple of years ago. I didn’t think it was too bad at all to be honest. Tolls were expensive though to cross the bridges, and parking was stupidly expensive...but the driving itself I didn’t mind. I’ve also driven around Los Angeles and San Francisco and thought they were both a lot worse.

I drove up and down Manhattan from Harlem down to the WTC area...through times square even.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

NYC always swears the next new tax will solve the problem. An the problem continues. How about not putting up pretty lights on bridges, lol?

 

[titiklabingapat]

You can tell who knows what they are talking about in this thread and who are just posting knee jerk reaction stuff.

Congestion pricing works. Even if they siphon off money to somewhere, it is one of the best tools we have to combat actual congestion. Driving is no a right, but a privilege. Pay up if you really insist on driving into the densest part of the city. It's supply and demand 101.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm surprised people here are so against this idea tbh.

This helps accomplish two important goals at once. Reduce pollution from cars, and bolster public transportation.

I get the frustration if public transit sucks. Ideally, you fix that first before instituting congestion fees. But that's difficult for states, since borrowing is much harder than the federal level.

Ideally, the federal government guarantees a loan after looking at a plan, the improvements are started, then a reasonable amount of time passes, and the new fees are put in place to encourage use and pay for it.

But, they are on their own with the GOP in control of the federal government.

 

[captmcblack]

If Albany doesn't see one cent of this, it's not the worst idea.

 

[GK86]

Here is a plan from Move NY:

Tax all bridges and tunnels (lower the prices on some of the existing ones):

And any driver entering 60th and below would be charged:

Move NY says its plan would generate close to $1.5 billion a year — or twice as much as what Mr. de Blasio hopes to raise from the millionaires tax.

However, this is why I would be against the plan:

Oh cool, more money to be siphoned off by these pricks in Albany.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I get the frustration if public transit sucks. Ideally, you fix that first before instituting congestion fees. But that's difficult for states, since borrowing is much harder than the federal level.

Ideally, the federal government guarantees a loan after looking at a plan, the improvements are started, then a reasonable amount of time passes, and the new fees are put in place to encourage use and pay for it.

But, they are on their own with the GOP in control of the federal government.

Even if public transit sucks, whats your solution? More cars on the road?

 

[Fox318]

I mean, what do you think they can conceivably fix that would ease congestion in manhattan into the boroughs during rush hour.

They need to consider dramatic options on fixing or changing the system that's in place. Connecting all of the boroughs by rail, expanding and repairing the subway system, building above ground rail in the city, more bike only lanes, limiting parking to only garages.

I think you are the one who is wrong here. It isn't JUST to limit traffic, but in theory offer more revenue to improve the infrastructure of the city.

Whose to say that the city would even get that money or that it would be funneled into repairing roads? The next time a budget would come up in debate whose to say that money goes into teachers or something else? A tax won't fix this problem UNLESS it is used to pay for a megaproject like the big dig in Boston.

Plus this isn't going to change how trucks and businesses who make their money in cars. It will only impact locals and poorer drivers will feel the pinch more than anyone else.

 

[Ogodei]

I'm surprised people here are so against this idea tbh.

This helps accomplish two important goals at once. Reduce pollution from cars, and bolster public transportation.

Aye. Drivers are subsidized in ways that they don't know about. Despite the various taxes and fees imposed upon cars and drivers, they're still actually not paying their share of what it costs to keep them.

(i say "they," but i'm one too. I've only been a bus-user in college or within the last 7 months of working at my most recent job).

 

[Suikoguy]

Even if public transit sucks, whats your solution? More cars on the road?

I'm just trying to look at it from the other perspective. It's probably the best option at the moment.

 

[Frozenprince]

Even if public transit sucks, whats your solution? More cars on the road?

Not penny pinch poor drivers for having the audacity to use a car?

 

[kaname-san]

How can they be broke when so many huge companies are in NY? Wall street is there for gods sake. Don't they collect taxes?

 

[NimbusD]

No. Fuck this. Always inventing a new way to suck money out of already over taxed citizens.

Fix the god damned subways if you want to reduce energy traffic. Until then people gonna catch a cab and call Uber.

Nah sorry, this one actually has merit. Depending on how it's implemented of course and it'll be hard to do in Manhattan properly.

 

[tbm24]

I'm just trying to look at it from the other perspective. It's probably the best option at the moment.

Way I see it, you place a congestion charge entering or going to anywhere say below the 60th as mentioned in the above proposal, that can slash the price of a monthly LIRR ticket making it more realistic for individuals to families to move further out into Long Island on top of helping congestion on the major highways going into Long Island, the LIE in particular.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Not penny pinch poor drivers for having the audacity to use a car?

If you're that poor and you're still driving into Manhattan then that's on you. Pay up like everyone else. Or maybe, I don't know, drive somewhere where you can hop on the train like everyone else? I know metro passes sold at a discount exist so take advantage of that as well.

 

[Somnid]

Hasn't pretty much all data shown that ridesharing is killing cars? Though New York had a pretty big taxi lobby to delay that.

 

[Frozenprince]

If you're that poor and you're still driving into Manhattan then that's on you. Pay up like everyone else. Or maybe, I don't know, drive somewhere where you can hop on the train like everyone else? I know metro passes sold at a discount exist so take advantage of that as well.

And what if the metro line is, oh, I don't know, literally falling apart like.

Say.

Right this moment. I love that though, fuck those that struggle to get by, they deserve it for having the audacity to be poor and need to get places.

 

[titiklabingapat]

And what if the metro line is, oh, I don't know, literally falling apart like.

Say.

Right this moment

That's an entirely separate but related debate. If everyone drives into Manhattan, guess who is also hurt the most? The poor who have to drive a longer distance and who has to pay more for parking. If they can even find parking.

At least with congestion pricing, they can use a bicycle because it will be safer for bicycle users in the first place because of less cars.

I feel like we are on the same side here. We should implement what works. Simply opposing something because it might seem less equitable when in reality, the alternative is much worse, is counterintuitive to the goal of making it safer for everyone else that isn't in a car to use the damn streets.

 

[entremet]

NYC always swears the next new tax will solve the problem. An the problem continues. How about not putting up pretty lights on bridges, lol?

The problem is actually Albany.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

And what if the metro line is, oh, I don't know, literally falling apart like.

Say.

Right this moment. I love that though, fuck those that struggle to get by, they deserve it for having the audacity to be poor and need to get places.

Are you actually poor and drive around in Manhattan?

 

[darkhunger]

How can they be broke when so many huge companies are in NY? Wall street is there for gods sake. Don't they collect taxes?

It's one of the biggest subway systems in the world and by far the biggest in the Western Hemisphere, but located in a country where traditionally the government piss on public transit.

 

[neojubei]

I hope this goes through, people that drive in nyc even cabbies are horrible drivers.