Mammoth Jones
Member
My point is I'm already paying an arm and a leg for a car, gas, insurance, taxes, monthly train tickets and they want more? No.
It is when you're cursing out other posters to do that.
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NY Gov Cuomo: 'The time has come' for congestion pricing in NYC
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
My point is I'm already paying an arm and a leg for a car, gas, insurance, taxes, monthly train tickets and they want more? No.
It is when you're cursing out other posters to do that.
Pandora012
Member
I wouldn't mind this. Though if they want less cars they are going to need to expand the transit system, so you don't need a car to get to the bus or train.
One plan suggested everything from 60th Street and below.
I have and I agree with what you are saying. That said, the MTA runs at a huge deficit, I understand that some of the costs will need to be passed on to commuters but they must fix the Subways and they need to fix the organization. NYC metropolitan area cannot survive without trains. I live in New Jersey and my commute is an absolute pain, mind you that I currently spend nearly $600 commuting into NYC.
stryker1138
Member
I think congestion taxes are a great idea in principle. I would like to see one here eventually. I also think implementing one in these specific circumstances would be dangerously premature. Overhauling the subway will entail sweeping delays and closures in a system already operating over capacity. And now you want to dump an even bigger load on top of that? All for a promise from Andrew Fucking Cuomo that the extra money will definitely-totally-absolutely-maybe make its way back down here to start repair work someday? No fucking way.
And yes, roads are the only real alternative to the subway to cover any meaningful distance, unless there's a rooftop zip line system I'm not aware of. Don't see how that's even a point of contention.
CrocMother
Banned
NYC hasn't even finished the repairs from Superstorm Sandy, which has cost over $19 billion dollars
Here is a plan from Move NY:
Tax all bridges and tunnels (lower the prices on some of the existing ones):
And any driver entering 60th and below would be charged:
However, this is why I would be against the plan:
Doesn't that plan bring crossing the Veranzano to 25$ each way?
Ah, the same arguments that the Tories trotted out against the congestion charge are being used here I see.
If you want better public transport in NYC, this charge will pay for it. For all the crap TfL get, the money raised by the congestion charge has saved the Underground.
Sure, it's still very very overcrowded at peak time, but some lines are literally getting close to capacity with trains literally every few minutes. And whisper it but reliability is increasing over time.
This won't solve a creaking public transport network overnight, but with some creative work to get the underground systems back to standard, it could make a difference to all transport in the city.
The cynical responses while understandable are misguided.
If you want better public transport in NYC, this charge will pay for it. For all the crap TfL get, the money raised by the congestion charge has saved the Underground.
Sure, it's still very very overcrowded at peak time, but some lines are literally getting close to capacity with trains literally every few minutes. And whisper it but reliability is increasing over time.
This won't solve a creaking public transport network overnight, but with some creative work to get the underground systems back to standard, it could make a difference to all transport in the city.
The cynical responses while understandable are misguided.
More buses and bus lanes would help a great deal. As far as I can tell, this is the total extent of dedicated bus lanes in NYC
London invested heavily in buses and lanes when the C-charge started, and there was a big uptick in usage.
On our recent London trip everyone, cabbies and locals, all praised the congestion charge as it spurred a significant increase in public transport use and accessibility with bus lanes and routes all over. The thing they said is not working is all the bike lanes as not enough people want to bike between the buses and cabs that dominate the city.
You may be surprised out of this, but fixing the subways needs money.
mercenar1e
Member
divert the $200 million planned for bridge lights to the subways and tunnels instead.
I don't mind the idea of using taxes / tolls as a deterrent for car traffic. A lot of people will not make an effort to change their routines unless they can feel the penalty. Especially people that gotta commute to jobs: you could fucking try to carpool if you really wanted to, ya just don't and you know it. But if enough people did, congestion would drop.
Tricky thing is ensuring that the money gained is actually used for transportation infrastructure. People have been burned in so many states when money gets moved around because the state is poor and managing finances
Tricky thing is ensuring that the money gained is actually used for transportation infrastructure. People have been burned in so many states when money gets moved around because the state is poor and managing finances
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
This is a prime example of the current catch 22 with regards to government revenue generation in the US.
I think more people would be fine with extra taxes and fees levied if they saw a greater return on their investment. Currently people feel stuck in the middle aka lots of cash leaving their pockets and not a lot of tangable return on their money with regards to transportation in NYC.
I think more people would be fine with extra taxes and fees levied if they saw a greater return on their investment. Currently people feel stuck in the middle aka lots of cash leaving their pockets and not a lot of tangable return on their money with regards to transportation in NYC.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
There's no way, if this went forward, that money doesn't get funneled to Albany.
Not really. The Underground upgrades cost far more than the C-charge brings in, and the financing/procurement was a complete clusterfuck. TfL wanted to fund it with public bonds (which is a common method in the US - Ken Livingstone got Bob Kiley, ex MTA exec to lobby for the idea). But Gordon Brown at the treasury overruled him and forced PPP (public-private partenership) instead. Two private firms were assembled to do the work and then set about wasting money, bungling the job and wallowing in a pool of pointless bureaucracy. Both companies ended up in administration and had to be bought out by TfL to finish the job. Over half a billion £ wasted by some estimates.
The underground was saved by massive public investment (£10billions), with considerable disruption to the network. NYC will need the same if it wants to see the same sort of improvement.
You can see TfL's current budget to get an idea of the figures: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-160317-item07-budget-2016-17.pdf
The C-charge is buried in "Other"
Their operating cost is £6.4bn, repairs/renewals £1bn and their capital investment £2.4bn (more than half of which is for Crossrail)
NYC needs to find a similar £2bn figure to do what TfL has done/is doing. The C-charge will help, but it's not a panacea
Tell Americans they have to pay to take a car somewhere and they have a meltdown.
More buses and bus lanes would help a great deal. As far as I can tell, this is the total extent of dedicated bus lanes in NYC
London invested heavily in buses and lanes when the C-charge started, and there was a big uptick in usage.
Many if those aren't even enforced especially not during the most congested times. They're just another lane or a lane to park in.
darkhunger
Member
$200 million can get a bunch of subway tiles cleaned and a few light bulbs fixed with NY construction prices.
Overhauling the subway means shutting down service at specific times of the day and service changes in the weekends, but it's absolutely needed in an old system like this. The biggest reason for the massive delays right now is because they haven't been doing enough of this type of maintenance.
If we're talking about the outer boroughs, commuter rail is probably an alternative to many (in regards to the subway), problem is they are too expensive for the common folk. Ridesharing might be an alternative one day, but right now they are only creating more and more congestion due to the addition of tens of thousands of cars on the road. Driving is definitely not a real alternative by any mean for anyone who's some rich executive with his own company parking spot.
I mean, there is a reason why New York has the grid and its not exactly a pretty reason.
In theory, I agree with the tax and the gas take hike in NJ, but they have to be earmarked for the right purposes and people are skeptical. I do think posters on gaf rhetorical skills are lacking, but then again name a forum which does have them?
Fenderputty
Banned
Maybe do that first, then.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
no
Poorer people don't go to downtown and midtown in cars.
Like these "questions" keep popping up and they show clear ignorance of NYC and congestion pricing in general.
Do you live in the city? Why do you have a car and get a monthly train ticket?
You can't because the roads are too crowded and bus service sucks. You need to take cars off the road.
Nah, its not a "lack of rhetorical skills"
its that congestion pricing makes clear sense. Literally the only argument is I don't want to pay more even though I'm being subsidized already.
This.
Its taken as a god given right. Which makes no sense in a city like new york which has numerous alternatives.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
This makes no sense
Car commuters from LI, Upper Manhattan, Westchester and Brooklyn and Queens LITERALLY PAY NOTHING for what they use right now. They're being subsidized.
I don't know why they feel they're not getting a tangable return. Its subway and other transit riders who won't be affected by this who would see a tangible return, less cars, safer streets, more money to repair subways.
I think NYC (and the greater tristate) is in for a rude awakening, as they're afraid to close service for a bit to improve service (see all the bitching about the Goethals Bridge at the time in NJ), especially when the tristate is so godawful at infrastructure improvement (see the route 3 disaster in NJ taking an eternity).
However, what he failed to do mention in those posts is the historical mistrust of Albany in NYC, he's just basically posting out of emotion atm.
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
No poor person is commuting to Manhattan via car for work. To be frank, I'm willing to bet the people commuting by car live in Staten Island or outside of the boroughs (Long Island, Upstate NY, NJ, etc). I live in BK and the only reason I have a car is to commute to Long Island every day. Luckily for me, I might be selling my SUV this afternoon
That is what they are selling us but I don't have to buy it. In my 33 years living in the tristate area I have seen money earmarked for infrastructure be syphoned by politicians for all sorts of other projects. Meanwhile our infrastructure continues to crumble and the MTA and NJTransit run at a deficit. Let me know when a NJ governor will finally do away with the parkway tolls as promised over many decades ago. FWIW, I don't drive in the city because I take NJTransit, Path or Ferry and the Subway. That said, I fully understand why many people are currently opting to drive. The train delays over the last 6-9 months have been unbearable and are jeopardizing peoples jobs and adding unnecessary stress to their lives. If some folks opt to drive that is great for the rest of us who take the Subway/public transportation because it is not as crowded. I would be surprised if the money generated from these tolls ever found its way to the MTA.
The Greek Freak
Member
Maybe NYC should stop propping up the rest of the state with their tax dollars instead?
You know nothing about NY politics, 95%+ of this tax money will be spend outside of NYC and will do nothing to help anything in terms of NYC congestion.
You know nothing about NY politics, 95%+ of this tax money will be spend outside of NYC and will do nothing to help anything in terms of NYC congestion.
My point is your car use is being subsidized. It's time to stop doing that, especially in transit rich areas like NYC.
Bloodporne
Member
More tax money = more payoffs, bribes, miscellaneous fuckery in others' pockets
That's it. Whoever thinks NYC taking money from you to invest in 'good things' to help you either A) doesn't live here B) lives here and is absurdly naive for a New Yorker C) I don't know.
Either way. No thank you. People act like drivers actually want to drive in Manhattan for some bizarre reason. As a resident of this fair city that does drive in it on a regular basis...that is not the case. There are so many factors that may force you in a corner here to where driving may be a necessity for your job or whatever it is, it's just not that simple to assume the subway is the solution to it all. It's a broken down fucking wreck of a system that is just as overcrowded and congested as the streets above.
Cuomo can go fuck himself as usual. The stupid dad-speaking-to-a-bad-child inflection in his voice is enough to set me off at this point.
That's it. Whoever thinks NYC taking money from you to invest in 'good things' to help you either A) doesn't live here B) lives here and is absurdly naive for a New Yorker C) I don't know.
Either way. No thank you. People act like drivers actually want to drive in Manhattan for some bizarre reason. As a resident of this fair city that does drive in it on a regular basis...that is not the case. There are so many factors that may force you in a corner here to where driving may be a necessity for your job or whatever it is, it's just not that simple to assume the subway is the solution to it all. It's a broken down fucking wreck of a system that is just as overcrowded and congested as the streets above.
Cuomo can go fuck himself as usual. The stupid dad-speaking-to-a-bad-child inflection in his voice is enough to set me off at this point.
Mammoth Jones
Member
No, I work in the city. Way to expensive to live inside for the room my family needs. Rent near my job would be $2,975/month for two bed one bath which is what we have now.
Need monthly train to get to work. Need a car for everything else.
And my point is no. Stop hurting and fucking over working class people. This doesn't affect wealthy people. They'll pay the extra shit and keep it moving. But I mean we disagree. It is what it is. Hope this gets shat on in Albany.
Preach!
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
This is worse than the Soda Tax. Is raising taxes the only fix these people understand?
Haven't you mentioned in the past that you are past the threshold for free SUNY tuition, which is a six-figure number?
Even if I agree that you aren't rich, you're sure as hell not "working class," unless your definition of working class is literally anyone who has a job.
Also, if you don't live in the city, why you do need to be driving around midtown all the time?
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