Support NeoGAF

[Amir0x]

While I respect your opinions on the term, I'm still not comfortable with it's casual use. Has Coulter made comments about ethnic cleansing? That's a serious question btw, I didn't think so, but I have no clue and your first paragraph seems to imply she may have. Maybe Nazi is a more apt term for her than I realize, even if she hasn't made those comments ...

Let me be clear. I'm not saying Berkeley doesn't / shouldnt have the right to prevent hate speech in their campuses. I think Berkley should continue to tell Coulter and Milo to fuck off. I think protesting their speeches is fine too. I'm just drawing a line when it comes to punching and spitting on these Berkeley republicans.

In the case of Coulter, I'd probably personally stop short of calling her a Nazi, but she is at the very least a white supremacist. Her record of racist/antisemitic hate speech is so ridiculously long it's almost comical she can keep getting book deals. There's probably a case to be made she's just playing this role to sell books to her almost entirely racist and bigoted audience, but at a certain point there's no distinction between being a racist and pretending to be a racist to sell books to racists thus helping push a racist agenda.

But the important point is that it's semantics. When someone is so abhorrent we have to try to find some thin line ("I wish all black people were dead and jews were killed" vs. "the blacks and browns are the cause of America's problems and the (((globalists))) are scheming to destroy true white America") just to be able to detach them from neo nazi's and skinheads... you know it becomes a pretty worthless argument to have. Because it's not like many genocidal movements didn't start first with the hateful rhetoric before they moved on to outright killing. And it's not like members of these groups in America havent actually already killed for the cause.

I dont think I need to say "go spit on and punch Berkeley Republicans" to say I'm perfectly happy with them being ostracized. Make them feel like shit. Maybe a taste of their own medicine.

 

[wildfire]

The guy carries around a binder "President Trump's Policies for the American People". I am sure he is just a kind quiet guy not trying to push his shitty values on others.

Citation for that?

Being a Republican doesn't automatically deserve scorn and derision but anyone who voted for Trump can go fuck themselves with an organically grown cucumber.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Citation for that?

Being a Republican doesn't automatically deserve scorn and derision but anyone who voted for Trump can go fuck themselves with an organically grown cucumber.

It's the first thing shown in the article

 

[Dehnus]

He says that but I wouldn't be surprised if he internally considers himself white. Poor bastard probably thinks Republicans view him as an equal. Reminds me of Jontron.

Nevertheless, he shouldn't be getting randomly punched or spat on just because he's a Republican.

Duh, why do you think he calls himself Persian and not Iranian? Also Milo wanted to out people on stage or make them targets by revealing information and ridiculing them. This is also the second time I've read an article like this on Berkeley Republicans of a similar nature with interviews .... Deja vu? Or are they again trying to instigate?

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

If your a present day republican at a prestigious school, even a place like MIT. I know people in kindergarten smarter than you.

 

[Amir0x]

If your a present day republican at a prestigious school, even a place like MIT. I know people in kindergarten smarter than you.

it's not really about intelligence all the time. Republicans aren't necessarily dumb. They simply embrace their desire to elevate their greed over the needs of those less fortunate than them.

And those Republicans at the bottom who keep voting against their self interest are just convinced that voting the way they do will at least keep them better off than the black man next to them. And that's all they need to be convinced of to vote the way they do./

 

[RedAssedApe]

I can't say I didn't find this amusing...

 

[Fenderputty]

I dont think I need to say "go spit on and punch Berkeley Republicans" to say I'm perfectly happy with them being ostracized. Make them feel like shit. Maybe a taste of their own medicine.

Ostrasise away and make them feel like shit all you want. Fuck, have the entire campus give them the side eye. Like that baby fascists poster above is ace. Calls for violence are different though, for obvious reasons.

Also ... I believe there is a slight difference between feeling sorry for somone at Berkley and speaking out against advocating violence. I do not feel sorrow for the Berkley girl. Kinda like how I'm against the death penalty but won't bat an eyelash when Dylan Roof is put to death.

 

[Amir0x]

Ostrasise away and make them feel like shit all you want. Fuck, have the entire campus give them the side eye. Like that baby fascists poster above is ace. Calls for violence are different though, for obvious reasons.

Also ... I believe there is a slight difference between feeling sorry for somone at Berkley and speaking out against advocating violence. I do not feel sorrow for the Berkley girl. Kinda like how I'm against the death penalty but won't bat an eyelash when Dylan Roof is put to death.

Sure, but I just think there needs to be a distinction.

I understand why violence is occurring now, just like I understand why the anger explodes the way it does during certain riots. When you continue to ignore people long enough and demonstrate that they have no outlet within the relevant bounds of power to solve very real problems, their anger may turn violent.

With Trump's election is a confirmation out front that the forces of hate/racism/bigotry/misogyny/homophobia/etc are gaining ground in a tangible way. Despite years of evidence suggesting this country needs very real work fighting institutional racism and striving further toward equality, we have collectively chosen to spit in the face of the weakest and most disenfranchised among us.

So when some people see Neo Nazi's being given venues, seeing moderates say "just ignore them" and "free speech is free speech, even when those people advocate for genocide", and see nazi's given positions of power in Washington and in state governments, when they see people as prominent as Republican Steve King openly advocating white supremacist ideology and facing no consequence for it within his own party they start to feel the futility of their words and their previous actions...


...and eventually, inevitably, this leads to a Nazi getting punched in the goddamned throat.

I am against the death penalty too. I also hope violence is never necessary. But as a student of history, I know sometimes it is. And when it comes to fascists/Neo Nazi's, I'm never going to not smile when i hear someone leaped to that action. It inherently makes one feel good that they were forced to eat one as they advocated openly for killing minorities.

 

[Zelenogorsk]

When someone brags about being "a non-white Republican" I just translate it in my head to "I'm an idiot"

Speaking of idiots I use the R-word too much and need to work on that.

 

[Amir0x]

When someone brags about being "a non-white Republican" I just translate it in my head to "I'm a retarded idiot"

just say "I'm an idiot" instead in your head, because it's too late to also have the thread debate that loaded gun

 

[pigeon]

While I respect your opinions on the term, I'm still not comfortable with it's casual use. Has Coulter made comments about ethnic cleansing? That's a serious question btw, I didn't think so, but I have no clue and your first paragraph seems to imply she may have. Maybe Nazi is a more apt term for her than I realize, even if she hasn't made those comments ...

Yeah duh, that's like my whole point.

Ann Coulter literally wrote a whole book last year about how immigrants are criminals who are destroying America.

 

[SFenton]

I can't say I didn't find this amusing...

Uh, I find this horrifying. Posting that information about people, without any proof of physical attacks? What the fuck?

Like... support Trump, I think you're an idiot, but ousting people like this with purposely inflammatory statements and no verification of those statements is straight up insane.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Uh, I find this horrifying. Posting that information about people, without any proof of physical attacks? What the fuck?

Like... support Trump, I think you're an idiot, but ousting people like this with purposely inflammatory statements and no verification of those statements is straight up insane.

How do you know there's no proof

 

[Fenderputty]

Sure, but I just think there needs to be a distinction.

I understand why violence is occurring now, just like I understand why the anger explodes the way it does during certain riots. When you continue to ignore people long enough and demonstrate that they have no outlet within the relevant bounds of power to solve very real problems, their anger may turn violent.

With Trump's election is a confirmation out front that the forces of hate/racism/bigotry/misogyny/homophobia/etc are gaining ground in a tangible way. Despite years of evidence suggesting this country needs very real work fighting institutional racism and striving further toward equality, we have collectively chosen to spit in the face of the weakest and most disenfranchised among us.

So when some people see Neo Nazi's being given venues, seeing moderates say "just ignore them" and "free speech is free speech, even when those people advocate for genocide", and see nazi's given positions of power in Washington and in state governments, when they see people as prominent as Republican Steve King openly advocating white supremacist ideology and facing no consequence for it within his own party they start to feel the futility of their words and their previous actions...


...and eventually, inevitably, this leads to a Nazi getting punched in the goddamned throat.

I am against the death penalty too. I also hope violence is never necessary. But as a student of history, I know sometimes it is. And when it comes to fascists/Neo Nazi's, I'm never going to not smile when i hear someone leaped to that action. It inherently makes one feel good that they were forced to eat one as they advocated openly for killing minorities.

I was going to post your point about the riots myself actually, because I understand where the tension is coming from. That's the reason I don't feel sorrow for said girl.

Yeah duh, that's like my whole point.

Ann Coulter literally wrote a whole book last year about how immigrants are criminals who are destroying America.

That's a really really bad comment that reaches the Nazi stratosphere.

Look, man ... I'm just violence adverse, but I respect your position as a minority and that your perspective differs from mine because of that.

How bout this? Whe I won't support punching Berkley republican students, I'm in total support of somone punching Coulter if ever given the opportunity

 

[Amir0x]

i just hold myself to being happy when it happens, but i'm not advocating for it yet. may be a time when it comes to that, depending on how bad things get in the coming years

 

[EatinOlives]

Uh, I find this horrifying. Posting that information about people, without any proof of physical attacks? What the fuck?

Like... support Trump, I think you're an idiot, but ousting people like this with purposely inflammatory statements and no verification of those statements is straight up insane.

It's confirmed that this is baseless?

 

[Cocaloch]

GAF consensus is completely deluded on this issue. This kind of thing is increasingly leading universities to be held in open contempt by much of the population. Just read the comments on any major news site when these stories of campus absurdities arise. The consensus is always ten to one against in all but the most extreme left-wing circles.

The public supports many of the policies of the economic left, but absolutely despises the excesses of the modern cultural left.

Americans don't like universities because American culture is incredibly anti-intellectual. As far as I can tell this is mostly because Americans seem to be particularly adverse to the idea that there might be people smarter or more informed than them.

Milo may be a clown, possibly a dangerous one, but he is no Nazi. That trivializes actual Nazism. It was amusing to see people refer to Milo's fellow traveler Ben Shapiro as both a Nazi and a white supremacist, when he is an orthodox Jew who wears a Yarmulke and would not be well received by either Nazis or white supremacists.

There are right-wing reactionaries that are not Nazis. Dilute a word like that and you won't have it when the truly sinister fringe figures arise.

All of those things merely confirmed his "punk rock" image in the eyes of his followers.

Most professors are not cultural provocateurs like Milo, nor should they be. Traditional right wing and libertarian viewpoints (Thomas Sowell, Niall Ferguson, George Will) very much have a place in academia, where they are increasingly hard to find. The ideological homogeneity has rapidly worsened over the last 30 years as many disciplines (particularly humanities and social sciences) have moved towards the radical end of the left-wing spectrum. Increasingly, academics in those fields become ensconced in fringe-left purity tests and disincentivize research that doesn't confirm their ideological assumptions. It is majorly undercutting the credibility of major areas of academia.

The hard sciences and business schools have largely been exempt from this, but that's beginning to shift too.

What exactly is your connection to the Academy? This reads like someone who's just repeating talking points they've heard elsewhere without much in the way of actual experience. There are a plethora of ideological standpoints within each discipline of the academy. I'd agree they are all far to America's right on average, but America's right is the ideological extreme so that's hardly surprising.

By the way Niall Ferguson isn't exactly a great person to bring up here. He's not popular amongst historians because he isn't a particularly good one, not just because he's an ass.

The right has Nazism, the left has Marxism.

These two aren't really comparable....

Liberals shouldn't have to apologize for knowledge breeding liberalism.

It's not that knowledge breeds liberalism, it's that the American right has become so extreme that most of their policies are pretty blatantly not even plausibly okay. They've removed themselves from the sphere of reasonable conversation.

It has always bothered me when some put economics on the same footing as the hard sciences, which is downright ridiculous.

Social Sciences are fundamentally different than Sciences, not simply worse.

 

[Amalthea]

Co-opting the opresseds language and playing the victim is one of the oldest far-right tricks and not News.

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

yeah no i highly doubt this is true.

Have you ever been to a college campus? I can see this happening no matter what side of the line you're on.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I can't say I didn't find this amusing...

Is it wrong that I'm not shocked at all two of them are wearing fedoras?

 

[Cocaloch]

You can see Marxist ideology taking hold pretty strongly in leftist circles (ie replace "bourgeoisie" with "privileged" and "proletariat" with "victim" and speeches become interchangeable otherwise, as Jordan Peterson points out). In any case, I would keep debating but you sound like your philosophy on world government is based off an Indiana Jones script. Time to bow out.

If you think that Marxism and identity politics are similar then you clearly don't understand very much about Marxism. Identity politics are about dealing with things seen as problems in the world. Marxism is about an understanding of how history works and where it is going.

Completely agree. The majority of the posts in this thread suggest most people on GAF don't get it. Treating all Republican voters with utter disdain is completely and utterly counter-intuitive to our aims of getting Trump kicked out in 2020. Not all of them are Nazis, and the ones featured here seemed quite moderate. It's these types of voters (and not The_Donald lunatics) we need to have a dialogue with, not write off in the first instance.

I think GAF trends too much towards knee jerk dismissal of conservatives sometimes, but if you think a flat tax is a quite moderate position then you are crazy.

True that in the US it's primarily in academia. It's been creeping into Canada's laws, though, and might do so in the US city government level. But I agree at the moment fascism is more of a threat due primarily to Trump's flirtations with it, though fascism itself is pretty directly opposed to democracy, which complicates the whole "antifa" objective to begin with. It's not like Trump seized power, so exactly what kind of government is antifa proposing here?

The American academy is not becoming more Marxist. Marx is generally considered about as passé as it gets.

 

[-MB-]

Well, yes.

Most people don't flip their lids when parents refer to their children as their birth genders; wear certain clothes or hairstyles; object to class lessons being taught because of some arbitrary lens through which they view the world; claim discrimination because they're not being addressed by a gender that was made up on Tumblr; cry foul because the food being served in the cafeteria is stealing from another culture; try to normalize and celebrate mental illnesses like autism and aspergers; act like it's a grave and terrible injustice that some people were born more fortunate than others.
And those are just the ines off the top of my head.

So yes. Roads do go both ways, you know.

Yea no. I can get very infuriated sometimes when some people get too offended and look for controversy and bigotry when there isn't one. Yet I would never ever consider going alt right or even conservative and wanting to opress and bully minorities. I am still firmly a very liberal leftist.
If you support the likes of Milo and Trump, and want minorities to shut up about equality and are willing to use filthy tactics to do so, just because you claim "Tumblristas" pissed you off, you factually were a nazi to begin with, and just use this is a very convenient excuse to be open about it. I ain't buying any of your bullshit tbqh.

As to the question why Universities and schools are supposedly so liberal. What do you expect to happen, when the right is all in on anti intellectualism, anti science, anti facts and pandering to religious extremists. And put people like DeVos in charge of education, because you want to actively stop people (mostly minority/poor people) from getting properly educated.
Basically the right created this problem all on their own. Maybe they should embrace science, and actually want everyone to get an honest shot at an education, regardless of how poor, or whatever background that person is from.

 

[sazzy]

Why Liberals Aren’t as Tolerant as They Think

The political left might consider itself more open-minded than the right. But research shows that liberals are just as prejudiced against conservatives as conservatives are against liberals.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...berals-arent-as-tolerant-as-they-think-215114

 

[RedSparrows]

So nice of major news media to give these guys legitimacy

...they are Republicans. Kinda an established group.

 

[excelsiorlef]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...berals-arent-as-tolerant-as-they-think-215114

I'd expect that..

Being a Republican is not the same as being black/ gay/ trans/whatever

...they are Republicans. Kinda an established group.

.. The idiot kids on campus crying oppression is who I'm talking about.

 

[The Technomancer]

If you're a "fiscal conservative" asking for compassion it has better be in support of cuts to military spending and not much else. Get the hell outta here with "I just support cuts to healthcare and food subsidies"

 

[excelsiorlef]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...berals-arent-as-tolerant-as-they-think-215114

Like lol

Conservatives are prejudiced against feminists and other left-aligned groups and liberals are prejudiced against fundamentalists and other right-aligned groups,

Is this supposed to be shocking? Or even bad for Liberals to be inherently biased against people who espouse toxic ideology?

 

[constantstatic]

Citation for that?

Being a Republican doesn't automatically deserve scorn and derision but anyone who voted for Trump can go fuck themselves with an organically grown cucumber.

I disagree the republican party has done so much damaging shit this last century any republican in my eyes deserves all the scorn and more. Republicans are the party of homophobes and racists.

 

[Darryl M R]

Like lol



Is this supposed to be shocking? Or even bad for Liberals to be inherently biased against people who espouse toxic ideology?

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...berals-arent-as-tolerant-as-they-think-215114

The Paradox of Tolerance.

Liberals are not tolerant towards intolerance. Go figure. Especially now when it is obvious that those on the Right have abused the expectation of decency. They will insult you and argue that your value as a human being is lesser but expect you to value their opinion.


AAAAAAND Conservative politicians actively try to push legislation that discriminates against people and argue that any legislation that protects marginalized group of people are infringing on other's right

Spoiler

to discriminate

 

[admiraltaftbar]

Is this supposed to be shocking? Or even bad for Liberals to be inherently biased against people who espouse toxic ideology?

Buuuuut buuuuut there's totally bad feminists just like right fundamentalists (#bothsides) and it's not like either group has a substantial support in government. Like right fundamentalists aren't trying to pass a widely unpopular bill against letting people use the restroom of the gender that they identify with in Texas right now...... Oh no wait they are.

 

[BrutishMrFish]

Is this supposed to be shocking? Or even bad for Liberals to be inherently biased against people who espouse toxic ideology?

To conservatives who have never been out of that bubble and want someone to walk all over, I guess it would be.

 

[Kinyou]

Considering the people they invite they definitely want people to get riled up, so it's hard to feel pity

"I feel like the judges at Nuremberg were really rude to me."

That's an absurd comeback though.

 

[pigeon]

Considering the people they invite they definitely want people to get riled up, so it's hard to feel pity


That's an absurd comeback though.

Already walked it back, thanks for reading the thread