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[StanleyPalmtree]

I don't know.

What Ouro knew:
- He wasn't WM
- WM was either town or scum or other

His gambit on V, I understand. But I don't get why he would take the chance of fake claiming a townie's character and putting them in a situation where they would have to counter. Yes, he is very lucky Rage was not town. But I wonder if it isn't more than that.

im going with the idea that he didnt have any convincing way to claim that torb was a cop, so he faked WM just to ensure the vere lynch.
maybe he intended to come clean about it today?

im really reaching here.

 

[melonrabbit]

The alignments are random, but the powers aren't. Widowmaker's role would have to be related to her sniping ability in-game and town usually doesn't have snipers on their side. Ergo, it would've been pretty logical to guess the real Widowmaker was scum or neutral.

Not really?

If there's a sniper on our side, it could be Hanzo or Ana. It could've also been a neutral that wanted to get rid of Eze at night.

What? What?

 

[Sophia]

Verelios flipping Lucio as mafia should be enough information to indicate that flavor can't be used to determine alignment. : \

 

[Bronx-Man]

What? What?

Francomp suggested a townie sniper killed Eze, I'm just going off of that.

 

[melonrabbit]

Francomp suggested a townie sniper killed Eze, I'm just going off of that.

But why are you insisting that WM was more likely to be scum than any other character? That's where I'm lost.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

I want you to reread the final moments of day one (and everyone else). Eze got really jumpy after I made him 2 little questions about him pushing the peeking matter again. He went completly mad and several people found it strange. And he was mafia.

okay dude help me out here, i went through the thats couple pages but i cant find the questions/ responses you are talking about.

although i do only see you commenting on them, but i might just not be looking back far enough.

also i would really like an answer to my previous question.

 

[Burbeting]

StanleyPalmtree summary, Day 2.

Stanley does not post before the Ouro-Zeke-Verelios show has already started on full force.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220201617&postcount=1427 Spiritually votes Verelios, but does not want to get close to turbo. I voted little after this post.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220201650&postcount=1428 Light comment on the possibility of Vere/Zeke both being scum, but it is very, very light.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220214454&postcount=1533 Well, well. Look at this, Stanley is saying town should lynch Zeke on day 2. Most of the post is about the Zeke v Ouro angle, Verelios is mostly ignored. Remember how I said scum would want to spin that narrative? Yeah... Although he is wanting to lynch Zeke the scum here, in opposition to Ouro. But it seems weird.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220261222&postcount=1736 I'm not sure what theories Stanley is referencing, there were so many. Want to clarify on this, Stanley?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220264405&postcount=1744 In this post Stanley returns to voice suspicions on Verelios, although he is just generally agreeing with me. No vote, though.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220264510&postcount=1749 Not much to comment, but I do think that the answer to this one was pretty darn obvious.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220264618&postcount=1752 More suspicion on Verelios, but at this point it was becoming pretty clear that the Ouro v Zeke narrative was not catching fire.

And that's it. Much less posts, although the posts here did have more meat on them.

 

[Burbeting]

So after making those summaries, I think the biggest points against Stanley are his actions on Day 1. The big post completely ignoring Verelios on Day 2 is not a good look, either.

 

[Burbeting]

Also the fact that he was laying very, very low on day 2. I can see some scum members do that on D2, when Zeke and Verelios were being thrown into the spotlight.

 

[Bronx-Man]

But why are you insisting that WM was more likely to be scum than any other character? That's where I'm lost.

I'm not up to speed on all the roles, but town doesn't usually have snipers do they?

 

[Burbeting]

Why is this flavor discussion still going?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

StanleyPalmtree summary, Day 2.

Stanley does not post before the Ouro-Zeke-Verelios show has already started on full force.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220214454&postcount=1533 Well, well. Look at this, Stanley is saying town should lynch Zeke on day 2. Most of the post is about the Zeke v Ouro angle, Verelios is mostly ignored. Remember how I said scum would want to spin that narrative? Yeah... Although he is wanting to lynch Zeke the scum here, in opposition to Ouro. But it seems weird.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220261222&postcount=1736 I'm not sure what theories Stanley is referencing, there were so many. Want to clarify on this, Stanley?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220264510&postcount=1749 Not much to comment, but I do think that the answer to this one was pretty darn obvious..

1st one - no shit it was weird, i was drunk as hell, though i still did think splinter made a pretty good point.

2nd one - uhh, i think it was about the theories saying ouro must be tracer, and how he had to specifically kill WM, and the cop claim was just a ploy to lure the real Wm out. stuff peeps were completely pulling out of their arse's.

3rd one - dude, like a post later i clarified that i had just misread cabots post. how would you not see this?

 

[Sophia]

2nd one - uhh, i think it was about the theories saying ouro must be tracer, and how he had to specifically kill WM, and the cop claim was just a ploy to lure the real Wm out. stuff peeps were completely pulling out of their arse's.

Specifically, that was Bronx. A few posts up from that.

For the record, I think Ouro's lying out his ass and is definitely Tracer.

 

[melonrabbit]

Why is this flavor discussion still going?

Because I'm attempting understand Bronx.

Why does it matter if we want to discuss it?

 

[Burbeting]

3rd one - dude, like a post later i clarified that i had just misread cabots post. how would you not see this?

Sorry, missed out on that part. It's 3AM here and I'm dead tired.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Specifically, that was Bronx. A few posts up from that.

a lot of ass talk going around.

 

[Burbeting]

Because I'm attempting understand Bronx.

Why does it matter if we want to discuss it?

Because it feels irrelevant to the game, since rules state that flavor doesn't have anything to do with alignment. And I presume that means powers too, any hero can have a scum or town power.

 

[franconp]

This is Eze's post. He went mad when I said his peeking plot didn't worked:

Vote: AbsolutBro

Of the ppl I listed for my personal chopping block nin has been more active, TG is getting a replacement. And I won't be voting for myself.

Fran - Seems to be active in trying to point out who were the big backers in the peeking thing.

Also want to make sure you know which post you are talking about.

Below is the two peek thing I suggested that Ouro commented on

After that I posted this:

If I'm not mistaken, Ouro's only comment about that was to try and change the subject.

==========================
Fake Edit: Just saw Fran's post when I refreshed.


I explained why I brought it up. It wasn't to try and push it at all. Show me a post where it was said the idea was bad and proved ineffective?




N1 cop gets read, N2 cop gets read.
D3 we do peeks. Cop can peek two townies, 1 townie or 1 scum, 1 scum, or 1 townie.

Vote: Francomp
Was gonna leave it on AB, but Fran's focus on peeking, making it a big deal for w/e reason is rubbing me the wrong way. Especially since he is trying to make it seem like I am/was pushing the peek thing again when I just tried to explain to BL what my idea was. Since BL's main thing against me was the peek discussion.

That will be my final vote, since I won't be around for deadline and slim chance I will be around for the rest of the day.

okay dude help me out here, i went through the thats couple pages but i cant find the questions/ responses you are talking about.

although i do only see you commenting on them, but i might just not be looking back far enough.

also i would really like an answer to my previous question.

If you look the next post you will find that several people found his reaction weird.

My problem with the peeking matter are this 2 post:

in this kind of instance, i think its just ju to the cops own best judgement whether or not they should come forward with thier results or keep it under wraps and keep investigating.

What I meant by the above is, those two lines would be the only one in a peek post.
We don't question the peek post because it could possibly just lead to outing the cop.

Example peek post would be:

No one questions why you chose those two and you can just refer back to the posts as you get flips.

This 2 post are clearly very bad for town. Extremely bad. They don't work at all. And one of them was made by a proven mafia. Also there was all the probability of the false checks that burb gave. The peeking thing looked as mafia agenda.

And that exchange between Barry and Eze was one of the motives why I switched myself with Barry last night. If was just what Eze needed to bring the peeking agenda back.

 

[melonrabbit]

Because it feels irrelevant to the game, since rules state that flavor doesn't have anything to do with alignment. And I presume that means powers too, any hero can have a scum or town power.

That's my point. I am interested why Bronx seems to think so strongly otherwise.

 

[Sophia]

If you look the next post you will find that several people found his reaction weird.

Aye, I was one of them. His 180 on you was one I particularly pointed out.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

So Fran you're a transporter of sorts? Or do you control who one targets?

 

[Bronx-Man]

That's my point. I am interested why Bronx seems to think so strongly otherwise.

Ynnek's power was flashbang, same power McCree has in-game. Vere's was a shield based off of Lucio's in-game sound barrier. Ouro was armorsmith, based off Torbjorn who is literally a fucking blacksmith. Zeke was WM, and his ability was.......SNIPING!

So for the last time, I don't think the ALIGNMENTS (Good, evil, neutral) match the characters in-game BUT THE POWERS WE HAVE DO.

But it's obvious this discussion is going nowhere, so consider it dropped.

 

[franconp]

So Fran you're a transporter of sorts? Or do you control who one targets?

I'm a switcher. I select 2 targets and teleport them so the actions on one people are done on the other and viceverse

 

[Burbeting]

So stanley's d1 was mostly just discussing peeking with some anti-town stuff inside, while figuring out who scum was got just one post from him.

Outlook is not good.jpg

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

This is Eze's post. He went mad when I said his peeking plot didn't worked:





If you look the next post you will find that several people found his reaction weird.

My problem with the peeking matter are this 2 post:





This 2 post are clearly very bad for town. Extremely bad. They don't work at all. And one of them was made by a proven mafia. Also there was all the probability of the false checks that burb gave. The peeking thing looked as mafia agenda.

And that exchange between Barry and Eze was one of the motives why I switched myself with Barry last night. If was just what Eze needed to bring the peeking agenda back.

okay thanks.
i think im actually starting to see where you are coming from, and it certainly is making more sense than before.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Ynnek's power was flashbang, same power McCree has in-game. Vere's was a shield based off of Lucio's in-game sound barrier. Ouro was armorsmith, based off Torbjorn who is literally a fucking blacksmith. Zeke was WM, and his ability was.......SNIPING!

So for the last time, I don't think the ALIGNMENTS (Good, evil, neutral) match the characters in-game BUT THE POWERS WE HAVE DO.

But it's obvious this discussion is going nowhere, so consider it dropped.

but you specifically tried to link WM ability to her alignment.

 

[Bronx-Man]

but you specifically tried to link WM ability to her alignment.

Is it possible for town to have snipers, yes or no? If yes, then I'm a fucking dumbass.

 

[Sophia]

Is it possible for town to have snipers, yes or no? If yes, then I'm a fucking dumbass.

... Vigilante? Why wouldn't it be possible?

 

[franconp]

Is it possible for town to have snipers, yes or no? If yes, then I'm a fucking dumbass.

Yes. Can we move on now?

 

[melonrabbit]

but you specifically tried to link WM ability to her alignment.

So I'm not going fucking bananas here? Thank you.

 

[Bronx-Man]

... Vigilante? Why wouldn't it be possible?

I completely forgot we had vigilantes. The only alignments I thought could use sniping at night were scum and neutral SKs.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Is it possible for town to have snipers, yes or no? If yes, then I'm a fucking dumbass.

i dont know,
but you made the point that WM had to be a sniper, which is not the case, and then went from there to say that WM had to be scum or neutral,
the first step here is the flaw in your logic.

 

[Sophia]

I completely forgot we had vigilantes. The only alignments I thought could use sniping at night were scum and neutral SKs.

Anyhow, I do like the effort that Burb put into his Stanley posts. Far better than Fran's uh... odd roleclaim at any rate. I'm not sure what to make of Stanley right now as I wasn't gut reading him, but I do agree with Burb that Stanley's D1 doesn't look too great.

Also Ezekel's 180 on Fran makes me feel a bit better that Fran is town, so there's that.

 

[melonrabbit]

Yes. Can we move on now?

OK, why are you Burb getting so annoyed with this conversation? Seriously now.

Also, Fran, having reread some of your posts. I'm not sure why you seem to think you've got this target on your back, as opposed to everyone else. Do you really think the peeking debate was a huge gotcha and scum are threaten? If so, why would I, one of your suspects, have suggested it the first place?

 

[franconp]

OK, why are you Burb getting so annoyed with this conversation? Seriously now.

Because we are discussing something that it's obvious. Just look at Vere's role. It's even in the rules. We have more interesting things to discuss.

Also, Fran, having reread some of your posts. I'm not sure why you seem to think you've got this target on your back, as opposed to everyone else. Do you really think the peeking debate was a huge gotcha and scum are threaten? If so, why would I, one of your suspects, have suggested it the first place?

Just look how you and Eze reacted when I called Stanley out and I linked the 3 of you together. I was the only one saying that this was mafia agenda so if I'm right that would make me a target. And you want me to say why you suggested it? If you don't know how can I? I'm just seeing there are a lot of messages about how it wouldn't work and it could lead mafia to find the cop faster. Maybe you are a godfather or something like that who can pass as town to a cop it would be a good idea to push for it. Who knows?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Because we are discussing something that it's obvious. Just look at Vere's role. It's even in the rules. We have more interesting things to discuss.



Just look how you and Eze reacted when I called Stanley out and I linked the 3 of you together. I was the only one saying that this was mafia agenda so if I'm right that would make me a target. And you want me to say why you suggested it? If you don't know how can I? I'm just seeing there are a lot of messages about how it wouldn't work and it could lead mafia to find the cop faster. Maybe you are a godfather or something like that who can pass as town to a cop it would be a good idea to push for it. Who knows?

to the bolded, not really.
you were the only person pushing the idea, and it wasn't picking up much traction. if you were right about all of this, NKing you would have only brought much more attention to the idea when the rest of town goes back over your posts to see why scum would choose you. i dont think you were in much danger in either case.

 

[franconp]

Everyone just look at this:

Think it can be solved by having us peek a scum as well. So it would go like this

Peek Town Read - Blah
Peek Scum Read - Blah Blah

Those would be the only posts in a peek post. To give further safety to the cop we also don't question anything about the peek reads.

True........hmmmmm. Back to the drawing board in that one.

Scratch that, peek every other day phase and allow ppl to have up to two?

Those two can involve a town peek or scum peek.

That should be safe for him and allow a cover if he hits scum one night, then town the following night.

Noone else finds it weird how hard Eze tried to make the peeking thing happen? Eze really pushed for it and he was scum.

 

[Xamtheking]

What the fuck is going on

 

[franconp]

to the bolded, not really.
you were the only person pushing the idea, and it wasn't picking up much traction. if you were right about all of this, NKing you would have only brought much more attention to the idea when the rest of town goes back over your posts to see why scum would choose you. i dont think you were in much danger in either case.

Eze overeaction also caused a lot of attention and he did it not only one but twice when he called out Ouro.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Everyone just look at this:







Noone else finds it weird how hard Eze tried to make the peeking thing happen? Eze really pushed for it and he was scum.

i mean obviously im biased here, but not really.
scum jump on this kind of thing all the time, it can be a good way to get townie points, or at least an easy way to not appear inactive.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Eze overeaction also caused a lot of attention and he did it not only one but twice when he called out Ouro.

sure it cause plenty of attention on himself, but i dont see anyone that started subscribing to your theory.

 

[franconp]

i mean obviously im biased here, but not really.
scum jump on this kind of thing all the time, it can be a good way to get townie points, or at least an easy way to not appear inactive.

So scum really tries to push for a plan that would by good against them? Really?? Come on!! At least try a little harder.

 

[AbsolutBro]

I was the only one saying that this was mafia agenda so if I'm right that would make me a target.

I mean, I said repeatedly that while I didn't think scum started the peeking agenda, that there was at least one scum pushing it. It formed the basis for several of my early posts.

 

[melonrabbit]

Because we are discussing something that it's obvious. Just look at Vere's role. It's even in the rules. We have more interesting things to discuss.



Just look how you and Eze reacted when I called Stanley out and I linked the 3 of you together. I was the only one saying that this was mafia agenda so if I'm right that would make me a target. And you want me to say why you suggested it? If you don't know how can I? I'm just seeing there are a lot of messages about how it wouldn't work and it could lead mafia to find the cop faster. Maybe you are a godfather or something like that who can pass as town to a cop it would be a good idea to push for it. Who knows?

What reaction are you referring to in regards to me?

I just wanted some clarification about your theory but it seems like you're grasping at anything that will stick.

 

[melonrabbit]

Because we are discussing something that it's obvious. Just look at Vere's role. It's even in the rules. We have more interesting things to discuss.

Also I think you are missing what was being talked about. I was trying to understand how Ouro could know what he knew. Bronx happened to say several contradictory things about chars/alignments I wanted figure out what he was saying and why. I don't see that as a waste of time but whatever. And

Spoiler

SPOILERS: he forgot about vigs somehow?

To the bold, that's debatable. I'm not sure how interesting you positioning yourself as enemy number #1 to scum is.

 

[Haly]

Working backwards from Ezekel's flip.

D1, Ezekel's in the lead with 4 votes, Mazre at 3, Ynnek at 2, and AbsolutBro at 1

WAMD, Ezekel, melon push up AbsolutBro. *Splinter pushes up Mazre. AbsolutBro switches off EzekelRage, pushes up Ynnek.

Ynnek in the lead with Verelios, Ty4on, Sophia. Ynnek defensive votes AB.

With 5 minutes on the clock, Xam votes for Ynnek.

End of day.

The most suspect votes are all in the top 3, and there's scum sprinkled through it.

Ynnek7 (7)
cabot
cabot
nin1000
AbsolutBro
Verelios (SCUM)
Ty4on
Sophia
Xamtheking

AbsolutBro (5)
Burbeting
EzekelRAGE
WhereAreMahDragonz
EzekelRAGE (SCUM)
melonrabbit
Ynnek7 (TOWN)

Mazre (3)
Xamtheking
Bronx-Man
Haly
StanleyPalmetree
*Splinter

First, there was *Splinter's vote on Mazre to make a tie with Ezekel that I dislike.

As I was putting this together I thought AbsolutBro moving ahead of Ezekel (with Ezekel's vote) cleared him as town but then when I realized instead of pushing Ezekel (who was at 4), he switched off to Ynnek and that's kind of what got the ball rolling on his lynch D1. Now I'm suspicious of AB.

Lastly, for the people that pushed Ynnek from 2 to 6 (I'm discounting Xam's last minute vote because it doesn't make a different, I feel there was one more scum working with Verelios. Going by the above, I'd place that as AB.

And if I am suspecting AB, then WAMD and melon are also cleared in my eyes because while I can understand sacrificing one weaker power for Ezekel's extra kill (hence, Ezekel's vote for AB), I can't imagine two people going in to bus/fake-bus AB just to save Ezekel.

So, yeah. AB is tops for me now, with *splinter at a vague second. Missing from the above is Kyanrute/Cherry who I see is in the spotlight now. Kyan's being replaced means their absence from D1 is understandable so I'll leave that line to others. I will also look at vote patterns in D2 later.

 

[franconp]

What reaction are you referring to in regards to me?

I just wanted some clarification about your theory but it seems like you're grasping at anything that will stick.

Let's see:

This post after I called Stanley out:

Fran or Bronx.

Though EzekelRAGE is kinda quick to throw himself to the wolves. I appreciate the JQ reference tho!

Here Cabot ask you why:

Feel free to elaborate on Fran also, since you don't mention him in your posts too much (at least in my quick search)



Don't know what to feel about this, I've mentioned this before but Sorian has stated this:



Now, if he's scum I imagine at least one of the team is an unexpected 'scum' hero, so why advocate for the mass claim if that's the case?

Feels like a reach here, you're trying to fit a reason around Haly being scum.

You reasons:

On mobile. Sorry.



Fran - Flew under the radar until the peeking discussion came up and still hasn't been able to let that go. Quick to latched onto ideas as he followed Marze "no cop" and later attacking (misidentifying) originator of the idea. Weakly linking people together, throws a lot out there but does ltitle to back it up. Hates D1 bullshit but still pushes for an inactive lynch. Ends up with a vote on Stan of all people because a he wanted the cop to claim? Which is a strange back and forth anyhow. Magically appear as soon as I mention I may likely vote for him.

This is how another people saw it:

he's been engaged and fairly proactive. I was hoping melon had picked up on something I'd missed but the vast majority of her reasons I disagree with or I feel are stretching.

Fran can pass day 1 for me, there's plenty others on my list.

VOTE: Xamtheking

Of the other candidates, I'm not feeling a Zeke, Bronx or Stan lynch.

I'm pretty much null on Mazre and AB, null enough to not be against lynching them. You could maybe add Barry to this as well.

Nin I was townreading earlier, but now I'm less sure.

Ty I haven't changed opinion on (still lean scum) but it's not strong enough for a D1 lynch. Also still uneasy about Burb although that's even weaker.

Ouro... I like his posts, but then I dont like his lynch targets. We were both on Ty for a bit, but Ouro seemed much more keen on actually lynching him. He's now on Verelios which I definitely disagree with.

I wrote most of this a couple of hours ago, now I see Fran becoming a potential lynch target? Not down with that at all, he's one of my clearest town reads. I think he's barking up the wrong tree with his "peeking is a grand scum conspiracy" stuff but it's an argument I've seen before, so not scummy. The rest of his stuff reads as town to me.

It's weird. It a lot more subtle than Eze's reaction (which was around the same time) and I wasn't the only one feeling it.

 

[franconp]

Also I think you are missing what was being talked about. I was trying to understand how Ouro could know what he knew. Bronx happened to say several contradictory things about chars/alignments I wanted figure out what he was saying and why. I don't see that as a waste of time but whatever. And

Spoiler

SPOILERS: he forgot about vigs somehow?

To the bold, that's debatable. I'm not sure how interesting you positioning yourself as enemy number #1 to scum is.

I wasn't talking about you but Bronx. He wouldn't let it go when there were a lot of clues that it can be true.

And I wasn't talking about myself. We could be debating votes or claims or several other things. Not something that's in the rules.

 

[Haly]

Oh and to explain the previous post's title. With Stanley on Mazre and Mazre competing with Ezekel early on, it might've revealed something about Stanley but no, nothing.

 

[Sophia]

Fran, why did you think it was a wise idea to roleclaim when you couldn't figure out those two unknown variables?