velvet_nitemare
Member
Kinda diluted the effect by releasing it so close to NSMB2.
I guess they figured they'd play the same get out of jail free card to breathe life into the 3DS in the west and kickstart the Wii.
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PAL Charts - Week 52 - Wii for art thoU?
- Thread starter Clay Davis
- Start date
Kinda diluted the effect by releasing it so close to NSMB2.
I guess they figured they'd play the same get out of jail free card to breathe life into the 3DS in the west and kickstart the Wii.
The WiiU is competing against ghosts right now. They'll ramp up marketing once we see any sign of life from the upcoming 2 systems.
By ghosts I mean 720 and PS4.
The perfect Dark
Banned
But only in Japan.
Baconsammy
Banned
How much bigger a sign of life do they need than Wii U simultaneously not selling out in November and also combined with Wii sales still coming in behind the ghost of the 360 by hundreds of thousands of units? Dem ghosts is scary.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
According to MCV, the UK games market fell 17.4% in 2012.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/overall-uk-games-market-down-17-4-in-2012/0108783
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/overall-uk-games-market-down-17-4-in-2012/0108783
Big? If CoD/AC hardly made an impact, KZ has no chance. It's the PSP all over again but worse. Slapping handheld versions of their big console games didn't work then, and it's not working now.
And come on, you really think that Sony's giving the Vita the support it needs? It's already dead in Japan which is handheld land for god sakes, and they've done nothing. No price cut, no big games, Sony should have been in a bigger panic mode than Nintendo were. It's biggest seller is a PS2 port! That's like if the 3DS's biggest game was still OOT. What else do they have apart from SS which is going to sell well? There's a reason as to why 3rd parties don't care about about it, and part of that is because Sony don't either.
Yea, that's why I feel that NSMB2 should have come when 3D Land did, and 3D Land come out when NSMB2 did. It would have helped peoples perception of them both IMO.
Read my edit, who in his right mind would buy a WiiU instead of a 360/PS3 right now? WiiU isn't competing against those.
Psychotext
Member
The Wii U is competing against the PS3 and 360... and not looking good by virtue of the software libraries available on both.
The next consoles from Sony and Microsoft will steamroll it unless they go really, really hard on price and exclusives.
The perfect Dark
Banned
Ah okay. Agreed.
Baconsammy
Banned
The next Xbox and PS will have the added benefit of already owning the hearts and minds of both core gamers and third parties. Nintendo's only two trump cards were loyal Nintendo fans and the off-chance that casuals who bought into the Wii would see something worth buying in the Wii U (TVii, perhaps?).
Pancakes R Us
Member
It will be too late by then.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Yeah, Nintendo could outspend Sony and MS since it´s all about gaming for them and they have a very healthy and big reserves. MS Xbox division does not have $8 billion reserve that they could spend it on buying third party exclusives, marketing, neither does SCE. But that train has already left the station the moment that Nintendo cheapened out on the WiiU. None the less, since Nintendo already released the console they could as well supported with massive marketing campaign, and buy third party exclusives.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Nintendo UK is pathetic, I hope NCL is aware of how bad and serious is the Wii U situation in UK.
What? You can't be serious? They posted 1 loss and people went mental, but you expect them to spend all their cash reserves on buying exclusives? Do you know how much that would cost? And how easy it would be for MS to outdo them? They can't play the money game, just like they can't play the power game. There's a reason they've gone the route they have.
Outspend MS... Man that's funny.
Oh, and Sony did this with CoD Vita, look how that turned out.
That doesnt answer the question on whether nintendo could sustain the losses MS or Sony could.
A PS3 situation @ Nintendo would end nintendo.
Thats not me saying they couldnt of went with a different route with the Wii U but what they cant do is try and fight toe to toe with the competition. Thats just not an option.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Already dead in Japan? Lol. There are like 4 games announcement last month for the Vita. So much for dead.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Why the hell would Nintendo have as much loses as MS, and Sony? The WiiU needs one game to become profitable. That´s not like MS and Sony at all.
DP, damn.
Selling less than the Dreamcast, yea, what a healthy platform that is. It sold 670.347 last year in Japan, less than the PSP. Animal Crossing sold more than that in a week.
And what are those 4 games? Will any even break 200k?
Too late because 720 and PS4 will be nothing else but perfect for everybody? Is everyone taking that for granted, did I miss something?
Thats not what I am saying. I am saying they cant afford to sustain the same losses the microsoft gaming division or the Playstation have done before.
Your saying Nintendo could outspend Microsoft and Sony when thats just not possible as they cant take those sort of risks.
Baconsammy
Banned
Third parties have clearly already made their decisions. Gamers will follow them. So it's either going to be PS, Xbox, or PC. Wii U, I doubt, will ever be part of the equation for core gamers other than a device they pull out whenever a Zelda/3D Mario/Metroid game comes out.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
If that was the case, then every PS2 owner would have bought the PS3.
This is an important point, third parties have already backed the HD'er twins, just like last gen. It might pay off again, it might not. They better hope it does, otherwise we'll be seeing even more studios closing.
Don't be silly, we all know the 3rd parties are backing Sony/MS. We don't need to see the games to know this. The complete lack of 3rd party Wii U games is the first clue.
Show me all those 3rd party games coming for 720/PS4 you're speaking of.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
You don´t know anything about business do you? You need to spend money to make money. Having all this money as reserve and not doing anything with it is very financially unhealthy. And yes, Nintendo can use these reserves to buy exclusives, instead of sit on them and just watch all the third party games come to the Nextbox/PS4/PC. Xbox division does not have as much money as Nintendo and therefor could not outspend them, unless MS will allocate a helluva lot more money to the Xbox division.What? You can't be serious? They posted 1 loss and people went mental, but you expect them to spend all their cash reserves on buying exclusives? Do you know how much that would cost? And how easy it would be for MS to outdo them? They can't play the money game, just like they can't play the power game. There's a reason they've gone the route they have.
Outspend MS... Man that's funny.
Oh, and Sony did this with CoD Vita, look how that turned out.
And yet more games were announced last month for it than the 3DS. Dead indeed.
This is silly, the amount they would have to spend to get these games would be huge. You think the shareholders would be happy with that? There's a reason they're going after games like Bayo 2 instead of giving 3rd parties tons of cash to develop would what most likely be a sub par product, ala CoD Vita. They'd be better off using that cash to expand, which is what they're doing. Many 3rd parties couldn't give a crap about Nintendo, forcing them to develop for the Wii U wouldn't help too much. They need the multiplats more than a few exclusives.
Like I said, tell me these games. 4 announced games doesn't mean much if they sell like crap. The Vita's on it's deathbed in Japan, you can't refute this by saying 'LOOK, 4 GAMES!'
HermitArcader
Banned
Exactly. Nintendo really needs to invest in North American and European developers.
Personally I think the company should've bought Eurocom before it closed, as it was a third party that had been making Nintendo console exclusives for well over a decade, including Goldeneye Wii and Dead Space Extraction.
That doesn't change the fact that you were obviously wrong about it 'already' being dead.
But realistically do publishers actually expect they'll sell huge amounts or are they just doing what Cave did with the 360 and released niche titles and expecting relatively low sales for them?
The danger of this, is that the employees could just leave, leaving you with a shell of a company. Buying developers is a risky game.
SmokeyDave said:
Yea, dead was an exaggeration, I admit. Almost dead is a better way of putting it.
Baconsammy
Banned
Will do. When they're officially announced.
Father_Brain
Banned
Yeah, the last few Vita announcements have all been niche games, late ports (DOA5+), multiplatform releases with other Sony platforms that have far larger userbases (Project Versus J, One Piece Musou 2), or some combination of the two (Sen no Kiseki). All of which are obviously better for Vita than not getting those games at all, but which don't suggest enormous third-party confidence in the platform.
It desperately needs major exclusives, and instead it's getting little more than niche titles and PS3/PSP table scraps. Aside from Soul Sacrifice, which remains the only upcoming Vita title with a more-than-marginal chance of breaking 200K LTD in the region.
It's certainly staggering around trying to stem the bleeding from its numerous wounds.
I don't think Sony will pull the plug any time soon though.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Yeah, you don´t know anything about business.
'
I don´t need to refute anything since software support is being announced. And i want your time machine to show how these games have sold like crap. There´s always a price cut card that can be played to sell the Vita. And even though it´s your wish and others to declare the Vita dead, just you and others declaring it does not make it so.
And this is another problem, while I appreciate the cross play functions the Vita/PS3 have, I feel it would be better if some of those titles (Like PSASBR) were Vita exclusive.
To their credit, I don't think they will either. Maybe they should do, but I can see them trying to keep it on life support for as long as they can.
Because what? I feel that acquiring multiplats/expansion would be a better choice for Nintendo than overpriced 3rd party exclusives? When Bayo 2 was announced, Iwata spoke about doing what you're saying and outlined the risks which come with it, you seem to be ignoring those risks.
My wish? What? I don't want the Vita dead, it's a fantastic piece of hardware. Not my fault Sony are sending it to die. And I don't need a time machine, niche games sell niche numbers, multipat games sell more on PS3/PSP than Vita, a price cut is nothing but a temporary bump without hard hitting software.
Exactly the point I'm trying to make, it's just not financially viable for Nintendo to go that route.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Even if the PS4 and 720 completely fail, the Wii U is still going to be a poor choice compared to the PS3 and 360 since it will be more expensive, have a smaller library, and few exclusives that show off its marginally superior hardware. At least, for 90% of 2013. When the 360 was competing against the "phantom" PS3 and Wii, it at least had games that were a clear step beyond anything possible on PS2/Xbox/GCN. In a scenario where devs decide to stretch out this generation further instead of supporting new hardware, I don't see how the Wii U benefits at all from the PS3 and 360 sticking around another 7 years.
Nintendo could not realistically moneyhat a mainline console version of Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, GTA, or FIFA. These games pull in hundreds of millions to well over a billion of revenue across PS360PC, the Wii U would have to have PS2-level marketshare for that to be even remotely considered. MS loaned Take Two 50 million dollars and all they got was timed-exclusive DLC.
Clay Davis
Member
are you suggesting third parties haven't already decided which platforms to support for the next 5 years? I feel it's pretty obvious they have and I fear the wii u hasn't really been a factor in any of the decision making.
maybe, hopefully, I'm wrong but the lack of third party support during this very busy period we're about to enter into doesn't paint a very rosy picture of what the future might bring on wii u with regards to third party titles.
Are you suggesting they have? And 3rd party only means western devs (a.k.a. former PC developers) to you? What about a possible Steambox, a console from Samsung and, as much as I find it ridiculous, the Ouya. I mean, it worked so damn well for many developers this generation, they'd be crazy not to do the same again.
HermitArcader
Banned
Taking the UK market for granted is also risky as Nintendo have found out recently. Besides the company above had been doing countless contract assignments, working directly for Nintendo would be a huge step up.
I was just using it as a recent example of how there was an opportunity for Nintnedo and they didn't go for it.
Nintendo has had bad experiences in the past but these should not prevent it from trying again to secure exclusives outside Japan either by signing contracts or arranging buyouts.
Wii's just not that into U.
Has that joke been done yet? Don't know what can be said that hasn't already been said, in the UK the marketing is a disaster - I've not seen any TV spots yet (I watch mostly sattelite though and usually manage to catch games ads if they're about) the demo stations in stores are a mess and the product differentiation is horrible.
Did they think this would sell like hotcakes with no effort or something?
Has that joke been done yet? Don't know what can be said that hasn't already been said, in the UK the marketing is a disaster - I've not seen any TV spots yet (I watch mostly sattelite though and usually manage to catch games ads if they're about) the demo stations in stores are a mess and the product differentiation is horrible.
Did they think this would sell like hotcakes with no effort or something?
Clay Davis
Member
I am. the lack of support for the short to medium terms is proof (to me at least) that nintendo haven't actively sought to establish relationships with the big or even medium sized western third party studios. sure, they've got platinum working on bayo 2 and w101 but those won't be big sellers and I can't help but fear for the future of the bayo series with it being exclusive to the wii u.
the problem is they haven't got the studios that matter working on bringing their games to the console. now if they surprise everyone and have grand theft auto 5 come to the wii u, I'll have to reconsider, but I have my doubts about that happening.
steambox won't happen, it's ridiculous to think it will. to establish a console costs billions, billions that steam / gabe and co won't be willing to spend. they will continue to expand their influence in the pc market and might dip their toes in offering games through cloud at some point once smart tv's begin to penetrate the market in significant numbers , but a steambox is a pipe dream.
samsung console? what's that then?
The problem with the Wii U is it's doing nothing "next-gen" compared to PS3 and 360. People see no reason to get it. It's got it's own gimmick with the gamepad which is awesome, but there's nothing that makes you say "wow", especially when oftentimes it just displays the same thing as on your tv (only worse because of the mediocre screen) or something not entirely necessary or special (like a map). It's just another console with the same graphics as PS3 and 360 but with a far lesser library and more expensive. Why WOULD people buy it? I mean, I did and I like it, but I can easily see why somebody wouldn't bother with it.
Father_Brain
Banned
I've been wrong before, but I honestly don't see how Sony can keep supporting it any longer than spring of next year at the latest, not with sales and currently announced third-party support both being as dismal as they are.
And what are the next consoles from Sony and MS do differently? Better graphics? Is that enough for the average consumer?
Huh? It was already dead, Nintendo just revived it. Bayo had no future until Nintendo came along.
A lot of people seem to think so, yes. I think that's insane, but the Sony/MS systems will have the 3rd party support and that's all they really need at the end of the day.
The average customer doesn't care about graphics too much, we've seen that time and time again.
Baconsammy
Banned
Yes, that's exactly what I was suggesting.
Yes. That is what the average customer sees are the marking of the next generation.
Developers will want more power to realize their creative vision and gamers will follow.
And yet you told me wait and see. Well I see nothing, you're claiming facts based on your own speculations you're modelling from what happened this gen. Every generation played differently.