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[eXistor]

I still don't get the hate for this and Sticker Star. The game looks pretty damn good and it's more of an adventure game. SS was like this as well and I thought it worked wonderfully. The game wasn't perfect of course but they were really onto something with it and hopefully this will take that idea and run with it.

 

[Simbabbad]

I'm puzzled how one can say the game "looks totally soulless" after watching the Treehouse playthrough.

Same, people are just blinded by preconceived hate apparently. Not that there isn't anything to worry about in this game, but "soulless" and "no humour" are absurd things to say.

Aside from lack of story or fun characters, what made the gameplay so shit in Sticker Star? I'm reading something about bosses requiring specific items/attacks to beat them or something?

Basically, many people didn't like the shift from a RPG formula to an adventure game one, the battle system had issues, and even the new adventure game elements were horribly handled.

The thing is, instead of attacking from attacks you gained through levelling up or equipping badge strategically, the battle system was based on inventory management: you found stickers that allowed you to attack, and you could earn stickers when you won a battle.

In itself, that system already has issues: it's shallower, less strategic, it makes you avoid battles (which are less rewarding), you spend time in menus handling inventory, it's much more repetitive and more dull (no more funny companion to attack or cheering audience)... but the main problem was that the adventure game side of the gameplay also used stickers, that you must use on specific places or enemy, and there was no way to guess the correct use of stickers - and every time you used one, you lost it.

This combined with obscure/nonsensical puzzles was infuriating. Let's take a part where you must melt snow to go on your adventure, which sticker should you use among those?

- Burnhammer
- Big Shiny Burnhammer
- Megaflash Burnhammer
- Fire Flower
- Flashy Fire Flower
- Radiator
- Hair Dryer
- Oven
- Magnifying Glass
- Matches
- Lighter

Answer: the radiator, and only the radiator. Any other used sticker does absolutely nothing and vanishes, and the only way to get back most of those is to travel all the way to the place you found them originally, or buy them back at a specific store for tons of money. Imagine, say, Secret of Monkey Island if every time you didn't use the correct object, you lost it. It was Hell, you spent your time carrying gigantic stickers taking enormous place in your inventory and being too scared to use them anywhere.
It was the same for boss battles: if you didn't use the one specific sticker you were supposed to use, then they took on forever and were dangerous and boring - and if you happened to start the battle without the correct sticker (or have used it previously at a wrong spot), then you were screwed from the very start without a clue.
The result was, you just spent the whole game checking GameFAQ so you didn't waste too much time, until you realized there was no gameplay or fun left, then you quit and sold the game.

Sticker Star was seriously the worst Nintendo game I've ever bought, and its gameplay felt so unpolished and so mishandled you wondered what happened during development. It's one gigantic accident. I mean, I hated Super Paper Mario, but at least it made sense.

So I understand people not wanting to give Color Splash a chance, but IMO the new formula could easily be fixed and the new game may still work. Sticker Star's real issues were extremely specific, in a correct adventure game formula it could rock.

It HATES you. The game HATES you and it wants you to suffer.

Agreed, good post. It really was that bad. I still don't understand how they could let that happen.

 

[MannyToons]

The majority of the characters are just... Toads. Non-characterized Toads. Sorry, but I just can't get into a non RPG Paper Mario.

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

It's a beautiful game no doubt but this is not the paper mario I know and love

Same goes for the Marino party series so what the hell Nintendo why can't you give you what we want

 

[kitsuneyo]

Wow. I'm actually interested, based mainly on the visuals.

 

[BGBW]

This kind of reminds me of the Brawl days when people judged Smash 4 before release on the basis that lessons can't be learnt. Any hint that the game was more like Brawl than Melee and the game was hated on. Turns out Sakurai had listened and Smash 4 is seen as a good entry. Who is to say the same isn't true of this. Sure they're continuing with the SS mould, but that doesn't make it identical.

 

[Simbabbad]

It's a beautiful game no doubt but this is not the paper mario I know and love

Same goes for the Marino party series so what the hell Nintendo why can't you give you what we want

Then again, with this logic the new Zelda would just be a variation of Skyward Sword. I'm glad they try things.

The majority of the characters are just... Toads. Non-characterized Toads. Sorry, but I just can't get into a non RPG Paper Mario.

It's a Toad village. In the Yoshi village of Paper Mario, all characters are Yoshis.

 

[Tambini]

Fuuck the game looks beautiful, why no proper RPG

 

[Orniletter]

Hands down the most beautiful game this E3.

I'm looking forward to it. Sticker Star was pretty great, though flawed.

Screw the haters.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Looks good visually. Not sure how it'll play. But, the only PM game I've ever completed is Super Paper Mario and I imagine it won't be too different from that, new mechanics aside.

I do think people are jumping the gun a bit. It could be "Sticker Star done right" if that's even possible. But you have to expand your concept of Paper Mario beyond being a successor to Super Mario RPG. We're well passed that. I know it's what everyone wants but it just looks like Nintendo has different ideas for the series.

 

[maxcriden]

Is this the dude from Treasure Tracker?

 

[woopWOOP]

Is this the dude from Treasure Tracker?

With another bump on its head! Dude can't catch a break

So I understand people not wanting to give Color Splash a chance, but IMO the new formula could easily be fixed and the new game may still work. Sticker Star's real issues were extremely specific, in a correct adventure game formula it could rock.

Maybe using some sort of TM/HM system from Pokemon could work? Have key stickers you'll never lose for basic attacks/overworld shenanigans, while the more powerful attack stickers would be finite?

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Same, people are just blinded by preconceived hate apparently. Not that there isn't anything to worry about in this game, but "soulless" and "no humour" are absurd things to say.

TTYD had a chapter in which a villain stole your identity, and you had to fight the rest of your party to return to normal. Another chapter had you enter a pro-wrestling tournament and work your way up the ranks, eventually tackling a corrupt manager/organiser. It also had a chapter in which you solved a murder mystery on a train.

Sticker Star had none of that soul or charm, so pessimism regarding Color Splash is entirely justified.

 

[neeksleep]

Looks fantastic! Can't wait to play it! Never had any problems with sticker star either, so more of the same is something i'd be alright with. Hopefully it being on the Wiiu will give the town and NPC's a bit more uniqueness and life though

 

[Celine]

Maybe using some sort of TM/HM system from Pokemon could work? Have key stickers you'll never lose for basic attacks/overworld shenanigans, while the more powerful attack stickers would be finite?

And maybe tie them to the consumption of ink (higher rate than simple cards) therefore posing more relevance to the battles which is where you can be rewarded with an increase of the color meter so you have more tries.

 

[Simbabbad]

@Shotgun Kiss: I know what TTYD had or didn't have, but I also already know Color Splash has humour and charm from both the trailer and Treehouse Stream.

Also, I loved TTYD, but was disappointed when I later played the original PM, discovering TTYD is a near remake of PM. I'm glad they shake things up, and as said above, the real mistakes of Sticker Star are easy to avoid, and we don't know yet if they did them again in Color Splash.

 

[fernoca]

The special stickers to beat bosses or proceed through areas in Sticker Star were a bit obvious. Like they were the largest stickers. So using them in a regular battle to beat 3 Goombas made no sense unless you just wanted to see the cutscene it triggered.

And still, obtaining them again was just a matter of going back to the town and buy it. It wasn't like you needed to grind or go to the specific place you originally got it.

But I liked the game and the humor, so I may be biased.

 

[TheSlySoul]

The game does have more personality than Sticker Star so I am happy about that.
My biggest gripe is can we get NPCs that aren't Toads? Toad sucks.

Also my issue with the sticker system is that you could easily miss the boss sticker (happened in World 1 and 3 for me). If they make it obvious location then it would be fine.

 

[Green Mamba]

This kind of reminds me of the Brawl days when people judged Smash 4 before release on the basis that lessons can't be learnt. Any hint that the game was more like Brawl than Melee and the game was hated on. Turns out Sakurai had listened and Smash 4 is seen as a good entry. Who is to say the same isn't true of this. Sure they're continuing with the SS mould, but that doesn't make it identical.

Had they actually learned their lessons the game wouldn't resemble SS at all, the game was fundamentally broken on basically every level except visuals and audio. So far the game looks like a prettier SS with a little bit more story. It still has the same awful battle system, same awful boss design, same lack of original characters.

In your comparison this would be like if they had deliberately shown Smash 4 had randomized tripping early on. People would be justifiably frustrated with that.

 

[The Giant]

Can't wait for this game. This will be my final wii u retail game until whenever the Bloodstain physical copy releases.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Besides amazing?

Felt like an import Vita game

 

[Ninjimbo]

I finally saw the Treehouse and, well, this is a day one purchase for me. It looks excellent and I've never been burned on a Paper Mario game. Easy purchase.

I'll never understand the hate.

 

[RM8]

I finally saw the Treehouse and, well, this is a day one purchase for me. It looks excellent and I've never been burned on a Paper Mario game. Easy purchase.

I'll never understand the hate.

It's not an RPG, it's not like TTYD.

See, I realize SS wasn't flawless by any means, but it's silly to pretend most complains don't revolve around the fact that PM is its own thing now instead of an RPG.

 

[kirby_fox]

I still don't get the hate for this and Sticker Star. The game looks pretty damn good and it's more of an adventure game. SS was like this as well and I thought it worked wonderfully. The game wasn't perfect of course but they were really onto something with it and hopefully this will take that idea and run with it.

It's an attempt to light RPG an adventure game, and I think that doesn't work. By focusing on collecting items, then making you go into battles to use those items, but not giving you anything for actually battling-- the best way to play is to avoid enemies. And that just makes battling incredibly tedious and boring.

It looks really cool, and I didn't understand Sticker Star's hate until I got to the 2nd boss and was bored out of my mind.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Looks awesome. Should be fun.

 

[jet1911]

No idea if it'll be fun but wow does it looks good.

 

[Kinsei]

Is this the dude from Treasure Tracker?

Yep! I'm hoping Paper Captain Toad will show up in the game since they're taking stuff from Treasure Tacker.

 

[maxcriden]

Yep! I'm hoping Paper Captain Toad will show up in the game since they're taking stuff from Treasure Tacker.

Yesss. Do do do, do do do do do~

 

[jonno394]

Just watched some of the treehouse playthrough, game looks fantastic, even if it does have some of the negative hangovers from sticker star. Was hoping the cards wouldn't disappear after use, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Boy Wander]

I still don't get the hate for this and Sticker Star. The game looks pretty damn good and it's more of an adventure game. SS was like this as well and I thought it worked wonderfully. The game wasn't perfect of course but they were really onto something with it and hopefully this will take that idea and run with it.

The negativity is pretty clearly directed from people who played Paper Mario on N64 and TTYD on GC and wanted more of the same style of game.

If you're invested in a game series then you naturally have a set of expectations.

Personally speaking, I didn't play a Paper Mario game until Super and the next one I played was Sticker Star. I enjoyed both. Especially the writing in Super. I think I'm therefore well positioned to judge and enjoy them as individual games because I didn't go in with any set expectations.

 

[HK-47]

Yep! I'm hoping Paper Captain Toad will show up in the game since they're taking stuff from Treasure Tacker.

That would require a different looking Toad. Not allowed.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Gameplay, writing and graphics looks great.

 

[SirSwirl]

It's an attempt to light RPG an adventure game, and I think that doesn't work. By focusing on collecting items, then making you go into battles to use those items, but not giving you anything for actually battling-- the best way to play is to avoid enemies. And that just makes battling incredibly tedious and boring.

It looks really cool, and I didn't understand Sticker Star's hate until I got to the 2nd boss and was bored out of my mind.

You actually do gain something from battling in Sticker Star: coins. Sure sometimes you don't make as many coins back as the stickers you use in battle, but the levels have so many stickers around them that if you don't battle your only option for managing stickers is to just drop some. With battling you're basically turning your stickers into coins.

What I think is the bigger issue with this subject is that coins aren't something you're really given incentive to hoard lots of. On my playthrough I loved getting lots of coins because I used them all the time on the Battle Spinner, rebuying things I used wrongly, and all the Door stickers needed to 100% the game. But none of these are necessary for beating bosses or completing the game, so coins aren't super important to go after.

I think this is why so many felt the battle system was pointless, while I felt the opposite and battled all the time. If Color Splash can make coins more essential for completing the game, then I think players would battle more when playing the game.

 

[Biske]

Same, people are just blinded by preconceived hate apparently. Not that there isn't anything to worry about in this game, but "soulless" and "no humour" are absurd things to say.


Basically, many people didn't like the shift from a RPG formula to an adventure game one, the battle system had issues, and even the new adventure game elements were horribly handled.

The thing is, instead of attacking from attacks you gained through levelling up or equipping badge strategically, the battle system was based on inventory management: you found stickers that allowed you to attack, and you could earn stickers when you won a battle.

In itself, that system already has issues: it's shallower, less strategic, it makes you avoid battles (which are less rewarding), you spend time in menus handling inventory, it's much more repetitive and more dull (no more funny companion to attack or cheering audience)... but the main problem was that the adventure game side of the gameplay also used stickers, that you must use on specific places or enemy, and there was no way to guess the correct use of stickers - and every time you used one, you lost it.

This combined with obscure/nonsensical puzzles was infuriating. Let's take a part where you must melt snow to go on your adventure, which sticker should you use among those?

- Burnhammer
- Big Shiny Burnhammer
- Megaflash Burnhammer
- Fire Flower
- Flashy Fire Flower
- Radiator
- Hair Dryer
- Oven
- Magnifying Glass
- Matches
- Lighter

Answer: the radiator, and only the radiator. Any other used sticker does absolutely nothing and vanishes, and the only way to get back most of those is to travel all the way to the place you found them originally, or buy them back at a specific store for tons of money. Imagine, say, Secret of Monkey Island if every time you didn't use the correct object, you lost it. It was Hell, you spent your time carrying gigantic stickers taking enormous place in your inventory and being too scared to use them anywhere.
It was the same for boss battles: if you didn't use the one specific sticker you were supposed to use, then they took on forever and were dangerous and boring - and if you happened to start the battle without the correct sticker (or have used it previously at a wrong spot), then you were screwed from the very start without a clue.
The result was, you just spent the whole game checking GameFAQ so you didn't waste too much time, until you realized there was no gameplay or fun left, then you quit and sold the game.

Sticker Star was seriously the worst Nintendo game I've ever bought, and its gameplay felt so unpolished and so mishandled you wondered what happened during development. It's one gigantic accident. I mean, I hated Super Paper Mario, but at least it made sense.

So I understand people not wanting to give Color Splash a chance, but IMO the new formula could easily be fixed and the new game may still work. Sticker Star's real issues were extremely specific, in a correct adventure game formula it could rock.


Agreed, good post. It really was that bad. I still don't understand how they could let that happen.

I loved the game but this is all pretty true. I can't remember exactly but there was one spot where I could not figure out how to move forward so I had to google it and it was something I would absolutely never have figured out. So hopefully they've worked on that kind of thing.

 

[Kinsei]

That would require a different looking Toad. Not allowed.

The rescue squad seen in the Treehouse stream are totally unique so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[mikefrails]

Oh wow, the dislikes.

So the game is bad because it's not what you specifically wanted?

 

[WillyFive]

Oh wow, the dislikes.

So the game is bad because it's not what you specifically wanted?

It looks bad because it looks like a previous Paper Mario game that was bad. Of course it's not what we wanted.

 

[tomato shrub]

Oh wow, the dislikes.

So the game is bad because it's not what you specifically wanted?

It looks like a different game which was bad and people dislike that. How ludicrous!
Resident Evil 7, God of War and Zelda aren't what people expected/wanted, yet they are received mostly well. Crazy!

 

[mikefrails]

It looks bad because it looks like a previous Paper Mario game that was bad. Of course it's not what we wanted.

Sticker Star is supposedly bad because it's not like TTYD though.

The item/sticker stuff wasn't that offensive if that's what you're getting at.

 

[Biske]

It looks bad because it looks like a previous Paper Mario game that was bad. Of course it's not what we wanted.

I think it was a pretty great game, just not the game some of the fans wanted. For reference my nephew can't stand to play Thousand Year Door, buuuut Super Paper Mario is one of his favorite games ever. So we can pretend they are all terrible games and nobody wants them, but it seems a lot of other people do, and they are pretty successful. So Nintendo isn't crazy.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Sticker Star is supposedly bad because it's not like TTYD though.

The item/sticker stuff wasn't that offensive if that's what you're getting at.

I was a staunch defender of Sticker Star pre-launch. I gave it every chance in the world to win me over. It is presently my most hated Nintendo game I have ever played.

Sticker Star is a bad game if it's the only Paper Mario game.

 

[Kinsei]

Sticker Star is supposedly bad because it's not like TTYD though.

The item/sticker stuff wasn't that offensive if that's what you're getting at.

It really was that bad, but it looks like this game is fixing almost all of the issues I had with it.

I wonder how many of the people disliking the trailer also watched the gameplay demo. I think that would relieve a lot of peoples fears.

 

[Mr-Joker]

After watching the treehouse stream "I was like nope not getting it" But after watching GameXplain interview with Risa Tabata and researching info on the game I have decided to do a 180 and buy the game, it honestly doesn't seem as bad as sticker stars.

 

[Green Mamba]

Sticker Star is supposedly bad because it's not like TTYD though.

The item/sticker stuff wasn't that offensive if that's what you're getting at.

Sticker Star is an awful game on its own merits, no comparison to actually good Paper Mario titles required.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

It really was that bad, but it looks like this game is fixing almost all of the issues I had with it.

I wonder how many of the people disliking the trailer also watched the gameplay demo. I think that would relieve a lot of peoples fears.

It's actually after seeing both that I lost all hope.

The developer who was interviewed put it pretty well. People liked Paper Mario for the story, characters, humor and puzzles. They decided to focus on the humor and puzzles only. The trailer & gameplay only confirmed any doubts I could've had.

And the bullshit excuse for disregarding story and characters? Mario & Luigi exists.

 

[Tingle]

Sticker Star is supposedly bad because it's not like TTYD though.

The item/sticker stuff wasn't that offensive if that's what you're getting at.

Super Paper Mario isn't like TTYD, but isn't bad.

Sticker Star is also not like TTYD, but is bad.

 

[WillyFive]

Sticker Star is supposedly bad because it's not like TTYD though.

The item/sticker stuff wasn't that offensive if that's what you're getting at.

No, it is a bad game. There is no gameplay reason to fight battles at all, game design is segmented and has no direction for players to follow other than to check every nook and cranny, and the writing simply is not there to support the broken gameplay.

I think it was a pretty great game, just not the game some of the fans wanted. For reference my nephew can't stand to play Thousand Year Door, buuuut Super Paper Mario is one of his favorite games ever. So we can pretend they are all terrible games and nobody wants them, but it seems a lot of other people do, and they are pretty successful. So Nintendo isn't crazy.

Super Paper Mario was a great game. I loved it, better music and story than TTYD and some of the best moments in the entire Paper Mario series.

 

[Boy Wander]

Sticker Star is an awful game on its own merits, no comparison to actually good Paper Mario titles required.

Going to have to disagree. I found it to be a fun and challenging game. I think awful is a huge overstatement of its lack of quality.

 

[Mac the KNife]

They really nailed the look but once again appears to have flopped on what made PM/TTYD so beloved.

I mean, remember that we used to have Gangster Piantas

Mario wrestling as the Great Gonzales

A demon stealing Mario's name & body

A boxcar train mystery

The sheer absurdity of all these scenarios are what made the world of Paper Mario so endearing and alive. I'm not getting that feeling from this footage and it bums me out.

 

[Social]

You will look for generic Toads and you will like it!