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PES 2015 : 1080P 60 FPS on PS4 - 720P 60 FPS on X1
- Thread starter Sweep14
- Start date
I'm not to tech savvy but I'm sure that they can use the ddr3 for the frame buffer but at lower frame rates because of the limited bandwidth.
The difference in how the Fox Engine performs on the two platforms is what's being discussed is it not?
boredandlazy
Member
GT5 was 1280x1080. GT6 was 1440x1080.
MisterX is the real deal dude, search your feelings bro lol...seriously, there are plenty of fans of products, brands, things,etc that will go to extreme measures to hold onto their delusions of what they love and defend it as if their own life depended on it.
He's no sony fan getting a kick out of his X1 fanboy blogging...all you need to do is see his reactions to certain things when people refute him or his posts...the passion is there and real.
Zombie James
Banned
Yes, it is.
Mr Moose
Member
Dead Rising 3 isn't 60fps (it is 720p though).
Look at Xbox One's best looking exclusive game (probably Ryse), then look at games like inFamous: Second Son, The Last of Us Remastered, Driveclub, or The Order: 1886, then come back & tell us that.
No, no, don't know.
You can hit 1080p on the Xbone with deferred rendering. You just have to scale back to achieve it. Project Cars is 'aiming' for 1080p on the Xbone. It just means their render target is small enough to fit into 32MB.
http://gamingbolt.com/project-cars-...l-use-mitigates-ps4s-unified-memory-advantage
Edit: Project Cars uses Light Pre-Pass, which isn't Deferred Rendering and has lower memory and bandwidth requirements at the cost of performance. So a better fit for the Xbox architecture than normal Deferred Rendering.
http://gamedevcoder.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/light-pre-pass-vs-deferred-renderer-part-1/
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Ryse uses both deferred as well as forward+ rendering on Xbox One. And it I'm afraid you may have it wrong on one key point. Just because a game is 1080p 60fps, or even 1080p on the Xbox One doesn't necessarily mean that the render targets fit neatly into 32MB. It likely means, especially for more visually advanced titles, that developers are most likely just making really good use of the move engines to asynchronously DMA data in and out of ESRAM as needed. It's all about a very good memory management plan, and having a good working knowledge of the way their game needs to access memory. It likely also means that those better looking titles are also taking advantage of the ability to split specific render targets between DDR3 and ESRAM. A set of render targets, even if they end up quite a bit bigger than 32MB can still work just fine on the Xbox One. A render target doesn't have to be completely inside of the ESRAM's 32MB; they can be spread between the two pools.
According to Microsoft, in an ideal situation, developers should be using asynchronously DMAing data in and out, and should also be splitting render targets between the two pools of memory.
This was from the developer day thing a few months ago, yeah?
IIRC, MS said that only a couple of first party games were using this technique. Which says it's either really hard to implement, or not suited for most types of games. Bodes well for Xbox exclusives, but not so much for multi-platform games. Like the PS3 situation really. First party made the console sing, multi-plats made it groan.
And you're obviously not very familiar with how a deferred rendering engine works. It's been explained MANY times yet people still don't get it and pass it off as being Konami's fault for actually giving a shit about pushing new (and better) rendering techniques in a forward direction. It's not Konami's fault that MS built a console that can't properly handle a rendering technique that's been around for YEARS and has proven its effectiveness already. So unless devs stick to shitty old forward-based rendering techniques (which significantly limits what they can do with dynamic lighting) then expect more of the same. When it comes to deferred rendering, the power gap between the systems is very significant.
EmptySpace
Banned
it's senjutsu. he's read every beyond3d forum post to arm himself with the "knowledge".
on topic, it could very well be that multisystem engines do not support xbone as much as they can the ps4, given the latter's straightforward architecture; or the xbone just makes it hard to achieve desired results. remember, even exclusives don't necessarily run at 1080, even at stable 30.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
They said that launch titles were only using stages 1-2, and that titles now are just now tackling stages 3 and/or 4. They didn't make it sound like something that would be hard to implement, or would only be done by specific first parties. It sounds like something all development studios can do when they plan for it.
Step 1 is statically allocating a small number of render targets in ESRAM
Step 2 is Alias the same memory for re-use later.
(My belief for why ground zeroes and PES are only 720p on Xbox One is because they're still just using steps 1-2, and haven't gotten around to dealing with steps 3 and 7 yet.)
They said 3rd+ wave titles will be really good at steps 3-4.
Step 3 is splitting render targets between the different pools of memory. Place most high priority ones at the time in ESRAM, meanwhile less important ones can stay inside DDR3.
Step 4 is asynchronously DMAing resources in and out of ESRAM using DDR3 as a low latency, super fast cache. (their words, not mine)
Nope, this information comes directly from AMD and Microsoft's Game Developer Day conference in Stockholm from June 2nd of this year. Oh, some pretty damn knowledgeable game programmers post on beyond3D. It isn't a sin to read what they have to say. Just saying.
Link to the presentations here.
http://developer.amd.com/resources/documentation-articles/conference-presentations/
Direct link to Inside the Xbox One by Martin Fuller is here. Page 9 tells you about ESRAM, and how launch titles were at 1-2 and titles are just now starting to tackle points 3 and/or 4, and 3rd+ wave games will become really good at it.
http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn....012/10/Inside-XBox-One-Martin-Fuller_new.ppsx
misterxmedia ‏@misterxmedia
Insider:Ryse is 1st wave game, Quantum Break is 1.5 wave game. 2nd wave holiday 2015 exclusives to use DX12 and will look way better than QB
Got it! :-D I don't put you in the same basket with MrX, but just saying.... .-D
The talk about complex stages of adoption for eSRAM usage just validates Mark Cerny's quote about designing the PS4.
I'm sure over the coming years, devs will get better as juggling between the two RAM pools in the Xbone. But as we saw with the PS3, if a console needs thousands of man hours to get to the point where its quirks and design flaws are known, you'll see a slow transition for 3rd party games to get to grips with coding around the architecture. With only exclusives building games from the ground up around its strengths and limitations.
I'm sure over the coming years, devs will get better as juggling between the two RAM pools in the Xbone. But as we saw with the PS3, if a console needs thousands of man hours to get to the point where its quirks and design flaws are known, you'll see a slow transition for 3rd party games to get to grips with coding around the architecture. With only exclusives building games from the ground up around its strengths and limitations.
It's sad that people still believe that MS giving that 10% back equates to doubling the resolution.
neogaffer1
Banned
It's more like Xbox One starts out being able to push 720p easily with extra power unutilized. Getting 10% back and fixing the SDK pushes it closer to 900p-ish with pretty much everything in the box pushed to its limit. Maybe 1080p with some work.
At least, that's how I view it.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Xbox One is not, and never will be, as complex to develop for as the PS3 was. x86 CPU, no cell processor to deal with, ps4 and xbox one have similar GPUs as well as CPUs, which should obviously help make life easier for developers etc. Even when some xbox one titles are releasing at lower resolutions, the games are still coming out in pretty great, even fantastic, shape. People aren't going "Man, it sucks that I'm playing the xbox one version of this game." That's not the case.
Microsoft has always been pretty damn good in supporting developers, and I doubt it's any different this time around. This is why so many developers are already talking about how quickly Microsoft has been improving the SDKs month after month. You have some games one moment going from 900p to then 1080p just with a bit of help from Microsoft to the developer. The task of getting better with both pools isn't something being left entirely up to developers. Microsoft are also clearly actively helping devs get this right, and are even sending people there directly (they have the resources) to do this. So while developers are busy working out their own solutions, Microsoft also has teams of people working out the best ways to do things also, which will only make things easier for the developers. It's not a coincidence that more and more devs have been getting impressive results across both consoles, to the point that nobody essentially got shafted. One might say that this PES situation is one such case, but then I suppose that's a different matter altogether. They're clearly having some issues even if the game still turns out solid, which I suspect it may. They should, however, be able to do better. I mean, look at FIFA 15. That thing plays every bit as amazingly as it looks.
Hmm.
There has been plenty of fallout from all the XB1 versions of games with low resolution or half the frame rate. Even just on GAF, let alone in the wider world.
To keep this on topic, yes they are, some X1 owners were complaining about the game's res on Adam Bhatti's(PES community manager) twitter feed:
http://www.gamepur.com/news/16390-d...olution-doesnt-mean-visuals-will-be-same.html
Are there any real 1080p current-gen only games on Xbone? All the games that were listed in this thread are cross-gen titles. Ofc Diablo3 is 1080p, this game is already 2 years old. It would be a desaster if it's not 1080p on the Xbone. But whats with the Xbone only games? Halo 5 1080p confirmed? QB in 1080p confirmed? I think in the future we'll see less 1080p titles on Xbone cuz crossgen will dying out and current gen games will aim at more details then higher resolutions.
neogaffer1
Banned
Crossgen doesn't mean anything. BF4 was crossgen and 900p on PS4. Watch Dogs was crossgen and 900p on PS4, too.
And to answer your question, Sniper Elite 3, and Forza 5 are the first games that come to mind that are 1080p on XB1. Of course, there are games like FH2 and Destiny that are 1080p on XB1 designed for current gen and back ported to last gen afterwards but by your definition they don't count because there's last gen versions.
Forza 5 is 1080p 60fps, Halo 5 should be too and the Halo 2 remake is 1080p 60fps while(in my opinion) looking a lot better than Destiny. There were also rumors that KI will receive a res upgrade.
They were, umm... Begging the wrong horse!
Sorry
We had that yesterday and to be honest, he only uses "communication" in that tweet. Konami took down the spec sheet for the game and its only 4 weeks away from being gold. The game is developed in Japan and even sending out "engineers" would take some time to get used to the language and the documentation for the games code in Japanese.
Trying to get the resolution up and keep the framerate and effects at the same time isn't something that you do in a few minutes and not at this stage of development. It's not a checkbox or a slider that you can simply enable to make it magically run in higher res. THis will be either patched after release or never touched again, but Konami giving the PR work into Microsofts hands.
No its not.
Its 720p*/30fps on both PS3 and 360.
http://www.konami.jp/mgs5/gz/en/products/compare.html
unless you're not talking about GZ.
Dead Rising 3 is barely even 30fps :/
I think only H2 MP is 1080p/60fps, SP is not for now either 1080p, either 60fps. If H2 doesn't reach 1080p/60fps i doubt H5 will be 1080p/60fps also.
neogaffer1
Banned
It's 60 fps but might not be 1080p according to info from back in June. It sounded like they were planning to get it to 1080p by release date.
Interesting, I was expecting them to back down on what they said about H5 during E3 2013(1080p 60fps), but when they doubled down on it during this year's E3, I thought they must be sure they could make it. There's going to be a huge backlash if don't.
Halo MCC is going to be 1080p 60fps for everything. They only commented of an issue with halo 2 campaign and that was due to the graphic switching to use the old or new on the fly. They haven't said anything else since so that remains to be seen on resolution for halo 2 campaign but it will be 60fps.
IIRC they mentioned 60fps but not 1080p.
My guess is 900p/60fps at best if 343i wants to have competent visuals, 60hz is definitely a big challenge for 343i.
The gap is way bigger than you think. This is not 360vsPS3 era.
In raw power the gap between Xbox One & PS4 isn't big enough for Xbox One to have to run a game that's 1080P 60FPS on the PS4 at 720P 60FPS. but there could be some design choices that could cause something like this to happen.
flipswitch
Member
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
So I was playing Ryse again yesterday because my brother in law loves the game and I am slowwwwly starting to like it a bit more. Anyway I was thinking of all the future games I have seen footage for in the X1's coming year - Quantum Break, Sunset, ect. None of them look better than Ryse to me.
Kind of a bummer
Kind of a bummer
In this case in particular, I would guess the devs aimed for locked 60fps on Xbox without sacrificing details like AA, shaders etc. and they could only achieve this at 720p.
I disagree on ms being fantastic on supporting Devs. They have only been great because of falling behind Sony. What about that indie game from the maker of deadly premonition? They gave great support to that haven't they.
According to news a few days ago is not 60 fps for now :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132122183&postcount=1033
dragonelite
Member
Looks like 900p or atleast its not native 1080p
thelastword
Banned
Dead Rising 3 isn't even 30fps from the Df article many moons ago.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Wasn't MGS2, a Konami game, gimped on the first XBOX even though it was a hell of a lot more powerful than the PS2? I think we all know the PS4 has stronger hardware but I'm not sure using PES for a benchmark between the two is a good idea. Something like The Witcher 3 would be better, wouldn't it? A game that is likely built by a better studio and one that hasn't been rushed, while also likely taking advantage of the Kinectless XBOX One's extra resources.