So I was just looking at the Cortana thread and thinking about how dumb the argument that she is using her near nudity for empowerment. I was going to reply there, but I figured I'd try to start a different discussion on the subject. Because what 343i said right there is very dumb for a few reasons. For one, I always felt that Halo's 1-3 mostly just had her in a generic female body, and the fact that she didn't have any clothes didn't really make me sexualize her in any way. There wasn't much male gaze focus. I think only one character ever mentioned it in a hidden dialogue somewhere, so Bungie was factually aware of it, but I didn't feel she was being exploited or sexualized. I assumed the character was just being a perv(which is what the character he was talking to replied). Only Halo 4 really brought the male gaze to the forefront of it, imo, where the definition of the design takes on a new level of detail at which point it's impossible to ignore that she has a naked female body that simply lacks nipples and genitalia, but at that point, it's a change in the depiction on 343's part. And it doesn't fit her actual character much either. In Halos 1-3, she was perfectly happy serving humans at their behest. She had a role of incredible importance, but ultimately servantile. She was fiesty and snarky, but at no point was she ever defiant of humanity. She was never intent on manipulation of anyone on the human side. The idea of her going rampant was introduced early on, (in 2, I believe), but her rampancy at the time was in the form of a mental breakdown. So introducing the idea that all of a sudden Cortana using her appearance as a power move on human sexuality is unlikely as I understand her character. Finally, it doesn't seem to make much sense since by Halo 5, this has been essentially refuted by
So yeah, it's a bad argument. But we hear this line of argument pretty often. "Oh, don't you see, narratively, it makes perfect sense why she would be all but naked! In fact, it's actually a way of making her stronger!" We've most recently had this controversy with Quiet who needs to wear pantyhose and a makeshift bra, otherwise how can she breathe? If you ask me, I would prefer devs to be upfront and honest about it, that they just like showing off hot women. It's atleast more honest that way.
The thing is, I don't think this is an inherently wrong argument. Human sexuality is a powerful facet and women have made it a tool of empowerment. In fact, you'll find that many older works have this in mind because women's value was based on their marriage potential, and their marriage potential was in turn based on their sexual desirability. In those times, sexuality was the only value that society deemed women worthy of having, so women often were able to gain a measure of power by being desired, yet only indulging that desire at their behest. Moll Flanders comes most immediately to mind, where a woman lives a truly incredible (though in many ways difficult and sad, but also awesome) life just by knowing how to weaponize her sexuality in her adventures. And men can have this element of sexual power as well, for what it's worth, thought it obviously manifests itself differently. And this creeps its way into modern life as well, with the art of seduction being a commonly used trope for a character to gain the upper hand. Or, rather than depicting it in an empowering fashion, there's also the many ways you can depict sexuality as a form of discovery for the character, of comfort and intimacy, or just plain fun. Sex is fun too, and you don't need to have more of a reason for a character to enjoy having their sexuality predominant in some way other than that they simply enjoy it.
I don't know what the precise dividing line is, but there is a difference between using sexuality because you want to stimulate your audience and using sexuality because it's what the story (read character or contextual situation) is about. There's nothing inherently wrong as I see it with the former, but it is exploitative if you do it without the latter. And frankly, as much as it has harmful effects on the outside world when we normalize such a practice in culture, it also needs to be noted that the story is just less interesting when it's exploitative, atleast for me. I mean, it's just porn then. Not even good porn, as most of it can't ever go too far, and the most we ever see it some topless shots of very unnatural looking breasts. I can't think of any game that had an actual well produced, erotic sex scene that goes all the way. So if you just want to see sex, it's better to just look up actual porn to do so. Rule 34 it if you want it to be about a particular character or something.
Sorry about the longwinded introduction, I want this thread to be about depictions of sexuality that you find to be well done and justified in the game that they're in, and don't be an asshole and actually detail WHY you think it's justified, so we know you're not just presenting us your personal rule 34 fapping portfolio. Not everyone will agree with everyone else's choices, but having a good reason for why you choose this or that particular character as a positive representation of sexual depiction gives good room for discussion.
Lets get the obvious one out of the way first
The amount of writing analyzing Bayonetta's sexuality that's been done could fill books, and if Bayonetta 3 is ever announced, it will fill much more. Bayonetta's sexuality is much more present in 1 than 2, but both have elements of it. I understand people's arguments for how they view Bayonetta as textbook exploitative, as the game utilizes the male gaze quite frequently for Bayonetta's numberous nude scenes, almost none of which are necessary. That said, I always felt reducing Bayonetta's depiction to just those aspects was reductionist thinking. I feel the fact that she enjoys being sexual is an important thing, and more importantly that she makes the specific choice to be sexual. Bayonetta is a very carefree soul where despite the extremely dark situations she's in, she finds levity in humor. She teases Luka, she makes poses, she dances her way around enemies...everything about her actions is fun, fun, fun. When she recieves her iconic guns, she can't simply pick them up, no, she has to toss them into the air and catch them while doing a breakdance. So all the gratutious sexuality comes off as her way of having fun, and that's key. You could very well argue that Bayonetta doesn't provide male gaze for the player, but she dances and poses because she enjoys it, and the player just happens to be lucky enough to come along for the ride. Bayonetta's story isn't particularly well written, but I always found it ironic how getting this aspect correct has prompted far more character analysis than dozens of comparatively better written stories. In fact, I don't think I've seen any other videogame character command the attention of the gaming community as much as she has.
giving her a definitively clothed appearance at a time where she has actually turned against humanity. If there was ever a time for her to be trying to distract humanity with her nudy bits, it'd be now, but instead she has light power armor on.
So yeah, it's a bad argument. But we hear this line of argument pretty often. "Oh, don't you see, narratively, it makes perfect sense why she would be all but naked! In fact, it's actually a way of making her stronger!" We've most recently had this controversy with Quiet who needs to wear pantyhose and a makeshift bra, otherwise how can she breathe? If you ask me, I would prefer devs to be upfront and honest about it, that they just like showing off hot women. It's atleast more honest that way.
The thing is, I don't think this is an inherently wrong argument. Human sexuality is a powerful facet and women have made it a tool of empowerment. In fact, you'll find that many older works have this in mind because women's value was based on their marriage potential, and their marriage potential was in turn based on their sexual desirability. In those times, sexuality was the only value that society deemed women worthy of having, so women often were able to gain a measure of power by being desired, yet only indulging that desire at their behest. Moll Flanders comes most immediately to mind, where a woman lives a truly incredible (though in many ways difficult and sad, but also awesome) life just by knowing how to weaponize her sexuality in her adventures. And men can have this element of sexual power as well, for what it's worth, thought it obviously manifests itself differently. And this creeps its way into modern life as well, with the art of seduction being a commonly used trope for a character to gain the upper hand. Or, rather than depicting it in an empowering fashion, there's also the many ways you can depict sexuality as a form of discovery for the character, of comfort and intimacy, or just plain fun. Sex is fun too, and you don't need to have more of a reason for a character to enjoy having their sexuality predominant in some way other than that they simply enjoy it.
I don't know what the precise dividing line is, but there is a difference between using sexuality because you want to stimulate your audience and using sexuality because it's what the story (read character or contextual situation) is about. There's nothing inherently wrong as I see it with the former, but it is exploitative if you do it without the latter. And frankly, as much as it has harmful effects on the outside world when we normalize such a practice in culture, it also needs to be noted that the story is just less interesting when it's exploitative, atleast for me. I mean, it's just porn then. Not even good porn, as most of it can't ever go too far, and the most we ever see it some topless shots of very unnatural looking breasts. I can't think of any game that had an actual well produced, erotic sex scene that goes all the way. So if you just want to see sex, it's better to just look up actual porn to do so. Rule 34 it if you want it to be about a particular character or something.
Sorry about the longwinded introduction, I want this thread to be about depictions of sexuality that you find to be well done and justified in the game that they're in, and don't be an asshole and actually detail WHY you think it's justified, so we know you're not just presenting us your personal rule 34 fapping portfolio. Not everyone will agree with everyone else's choices, but having a good reason for why you choose this or that particular character as a positive representation of sexual depiction gives good room for discussion.
Lets get the obvious one out of the way first
The amount of writing analyzing Bayonetta's sexuality that's been done could fill books, and if Bayonetta 3 is ever announced, it will fill much more. Bayonetta's sexuality is much more present in 1 than 2, but both have elements of it. I understand people's arguments for how they view Bayonetta as textbook exploitative, as the game utilizes the male gaze quite frequently for Bayonetta's numberous nude scenes, almost none of which are necessary. That said, I always felt reducing Bayonetta's depiction to just those aspects was reductionist thinking. I feel the fact that she enjoys being sexual is an important thing, and more importantly that she makes the specific choice to be sexual. Bayonetta is a very carefree soul where despite the extremely dark situations she's in, she finds levity in humor. She teases Luka, she makes poses, she dances her way around enemies...everything about her actions is fun, fun, fun. When she recieves her iconic guns, she can't simply pick them up, no, she has to toss them into the air and catch them while doing a breakdance. So all the gratutious sexuality comes off as her way of having fun, and that's key. You could very well argue that Bayonetta doesn't provide male gaze for the player, but she dances and poses because she enjoys it, and the player just happens to be lucky enough to come along for the ride. Bayonetta's story isn't particularly well written, but I always found it ironic how getting this aspect correct has prompted far more character analysis than dozens of comparatively better written stories. In fact, I don't think I've seen any other videogame character command the attention of the gaming community as much as she has.
