LelouchZero
Member
You're agreeing with someone who was factually incorrect? The system didn't receive a GPU upgrade. Nor do people recommend getting into PC Gaming with a system with specs such as these.
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Potato Masher (console-level used PC) vs PS4/PS4 Pro in Watch_Dogs 2
- Thread starter Sad Affleck
- Start date
You're agreeing with someone who was factually incorrect? The system didn't receive a GPU upgrade. Nor do people recommend getting into PC Gaming with a system with specs such as these.
Notice how it's always console gamers using this term?
BigEmil
Junior Member
On this forum? Because everywhere else outside of GAF you'll see PC gamers use this term much more themselves because saying and acting like that here is a bannable offence, they bring it up here because they seen it alot out of gaf
Look up old All-In-One PC's on ebay.
On the german ebay you can get them for 60-70.
Buy a used ~PS4 gpu for 30-40, invest the rest into memory and you have a PS4< PC for 150.
Yes on this forum specifically.
LordRaptor
Member
People unable to contain their perceived slights to where they actually occurred is literally why we are unable to have a single fucking topic about the PC as a really good gaming platform on this forum without console warriors wading in in full on defence mode parading their insecurities as "justified" reprisals.
It is pathetic.
Saucycarpdog
Member
The most popular PC games are League, Dota 2, CS GO, WoW, and Overwatch. All can be played on PC's lower than $400.
Stop talking out of your ass.
I don't think it's that simple. Even if you were to get a really cheap all-in-one PC with a decent CPU and if you can find a 7870 or equivalent for 30 (which i doubt) you would most likely still run into problems like not enough room in the all-in-one pc for a regular size aftermarket GPU or a PSU that can't handle it at which point you would have to replace that too.
Spladam
Member
Are you serious? As a PC Gamer with a PS4 I often feel ashamed about the conduct of my fellow PC gamers. Why this crap means so much to them is beyond me, why they even started this discourse is beyond me, and why they would bring terms like "peasant" and "Master Race" into it is beyond me. Make no mistake, they did, and it's not a good look.
What is always skipped is the difference in architecture between console design and PC design, the fact that PC's are made to do so much is one of their weaknesses in gaming. Thank god both manufacturers created a PCI to CPU bus that bypassed the FSB PLL timing. Now if only Microsoft would allow you to boot into a lightweight version of Windows made just to game, things would be a bit better. I'm also bothered by the pricing claims made by PC Gamers caught up with this nonsense, they leave out so much for various reasons.
As a PC gamer that's been into gaming since the C64 and the 8088, and building them since the days of the 386 and specialized in budget builds, I can say this: You would be very hard pressed to get a budget PC with PS4 specs to run Horizon Zero Dawn the way the PS4 does and have it look that good. Optimization has and will probably continue to be one of the greatest adversaries for PC gaming.
As for the claim on the first page that "millions of PC gamers game with $400 gaming PC's", I call bullshit. I can, however, make you a decent gaming machine for $650 US with everything included, mouse, monitor, controls and OS. That's always been my budget mark, and I don't know another PC gamer personally that games with a machine made for cheaper, unless I built it for them.
Right, just like that, magic. No buyers remorse, your all in one will definitely fit a GPU, there is sooo little hassle in buying used PC's and GPU's, and I'm sure it was well maintained. Magical budget gaming machine. The amount of people saying things like that that actually own a machine like that is very very close to zero.
Saucycarpdog
Member
The number of PC users with PC hardware equivalent to consoles is in the millions according to Steam survey.
Don't be so quick to call bullshit before doing your research.
Spladam
Member
The number of PC users with PC hardware equivalent to consoles is in the millions according to Steam survey.
Don't be so quick to call bullshit before doing your research.
Wow, ok. I said $400 PC. They did not buy the hardware used, and a console equivelent PC did not cost them $400, despite what you or your friends can do with a parts picker and amazon. Go to walmart, look at $400 PC's, and note the specs. Then go buy a monitor.
LordRaptor
Member
For, like, the gazumptybillionth time, the term was coined by Yahtzee as a pisstake of PC gamers.
Yes, the gpu part is a little more complicated and you need to inform yourself before you buy, but it's still possible ...
Spladam
Member
Yeah, I know who "coined" it, and then read the thousands and thousands of times it was used afterward. Have you not been reading PC gaming forums or r/PCmasterrace?
-Edit: or Steam threads, or youtube, or any other place this discussion has taken place in the last 6 years.
Also, Yahtzee is funny as hell. If he only knew what his irony would provoke.
jonscrambler
Member
how can people still argue PC "needs" constant upgrades as a negative now that we have iterative consoles? My 4 year old PC "needs" a upgrade as much as you "need" to upgrade your PS4 to PS4 Pro
jonscrambler
Member
yes every time I see it it's used by console gamers as insult, or by PC gamers sarcastically
Ah yes, because consoles don't need displays, I see. You just turn it on and play with the power of the imagination.
LordRaptor
Member
Console fanboys went "HAHA BRILLIANT, YES, PC GAMERS ARE LIKE NAZIS!" and continued using it as a derogatory term, but much to their annoyance it was reappropriated by the target of their derision as a badge of pride.
Regardless, you are on this forum, and using that term here is literally only done by console warriors as an insult.
Sad Affleck
Member
It's just a fun little challenge to see if the price of a used ps4 can be matched, noone is saying that you should build such a PC for gaming. Not because it can't be done, I think it's possible to get pretty close, but because you'll get better value in the long run by spending more.
Quite a few people have asked why so many PC builds omit stuff like the OS or peripherals. These posters operate on the console mentality of scrapping everything once a generation is over and buying a new device. You can go down that road on PC too, it is possible, but you are not taking advantage of the platform's versatility. Many parts of your initial PC build can be seamlessly transplanted to a new system and reused until they break or until you want something new. If you buy smart at first then the cost of upgrading becomes much smaller as only a few parts will need upgrading.
Spladam
Member
Well my PS4 plugged right into both the TV's I already had. I haven't had cable for 6 years and I still had two TV's. I have two gaming PC's, and both have monitors, one of them is a $480 monitor.
Maybe stop going to those forums if it bothers you so much? I haven't seen a PC gamer use "master race" as a serious term on NeoGAF. It's either ironic or it's another salty poster who wants to shit on PC gamers.
I can plug my PC or any PC into a TV that I already own. Wow I must be some kind of wizard.
jonscrambler
Member
you know your PCs can also plugged right into your TVs, and your PS4 can also plugged in to your $480 monitor
Spladam
Member
Oh come on, that is your metric on how the term is used? You know as well as I do who's been using that term, they CAN'T use it here. Let's be reasonable man.
Same for the other point, it's why I stated both of my PC's have monitors, do you PC game on your TV? I don't know a single PC gamer that does not have a monitor that is ONLY used for their PC's, it's part of the price package, it's why I price budget build at that cost, and that's only for $120 1080 monitors. You know as well as I do that a monitor is part of the PC expense, you're not PC gaming on your living room monitor. Why do you even bother acting like this though? You know what the point is but you act like you're ignorant. Damn dude.
So quickly on this, I'm not attacking you I understand your point.
But just remove the monitor part from your thinking of cost. You don't need a monitor to play a PC, and in fact from the perspective of someone who's traditionally a console gamer, I would never want one. My PC is hooked up to my TV so I can use it like a console.
Monitors are for a specific type of PC gamer, and its entirely optional
Spladam
Member
Come on... You don't even have a point here. Your intelligent discourse is a picture. Those millions of Steam users we were talking about are not PC gaming on their living room TV... don't act like you don't know this. Be real.
I use a 60 inch 4k tv with my PC exclusively.
Enlighten me; who's been using that term? I don't care for morons on other websites. People CAN and do use it on this site. I've seen the term plenty with users not being banned for it.
You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but all you're doing is muddying your argument by just throwing out random shit without sources on any of them and saying things like "I don't know a single PC gamer that only games with a TV"
It's really not part of the "PC expense."
Please show me sources on this information.
Whilst Spladem is wrong about needing a monitor, he is 100% right that a lot of PC gamers use the term "PC master race" only semi-ironically.
Semi-ironically because although they know they're puffing up how good being a PC gamer is, they are still being "snobbish" about console gamers/peasants. He's just right.
Semi-ironically because although they know they're puffing up how good being a PC gamer is, they are still being "snobbish" about console gamers/peasants. He's just right.
I guess steam developed big picture mode and steam link and the controller for literally no one then...
perfectsil
Member
My monitor is a TV, what's the difference nowadays? And there's steamlink if you don't want a pc in your living room
Honestly, an awful lot are. I feel like your opinions on pc gaming are based on an old fashioned idea of what pc gaming is.
Steam controller and big picture mode were made for a reason.
Spladam
Member
So quickly on this, I'm not attacking you I understand your point.
But just remove the monitor part from your thinking of cost. You don't need a monitor to play a PC, and in fact from the perspective of someone who's traditionally a console gamer, I would never want one. My PC is hooked up to my TV so I can use it like a console.
Monitors are for a specific type of PC gamer, and its entirely optional
First, thank you for the reasonable and intelligent discourse. No, you don't need a monitor, we all know that, and thank GPU makers and TV makers for settling on these convenient interface standards that make that possible now. But a "specific type of PC gamer", hmm, I don' know about that. Living room PC's are so specialized and rare that they have their own designated subset. I think we can both agree that a remarkably high percentage of PC gamers are using a monitor, even the casual ones that have off the shelf budget machines.
I don't know where to get data on this, but I don't think we need too. We can both just use anecdotal data on this. I have a couple of friends that PC game on larger flat screen TV's, but in both of their cases, that's the only use for the TV. One is rather casual part time gamer. Regardless, when I build a machine for someone, it's safe to assume they are not using it on their living room TV, I will ask if they have a monitor or an extra TV, but it's so common that a dedicated screen will be needed I assume it to be part of the package from the jump.
Abos-fucking-lutely nothing.
I play my console on the same monitor I play my PC just swapping input. By this logic I need to factor a brand new TV into the cost when purchasing a console.
Fucking ridiculous is what it is.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I use my TV as a monitor more than I use my monitor. Tons of people do. It's not like some crazy process to set up.
And I think he's confused by your "now go buy a monitor" line as if consoles come with televisions.
I would say a reasonable estimate of PC gamers using HTPCs is about 5% based on the sales of Steamlink and steam controller.
But that aside, this thread is about how much it would cost to make a PC alternative to a console. If you were doing that, why would you buy a monitor and keyboard and mouse? Surely you'd be trying to make something equivalent to a console. So I'd say, include the cost of an OS and controller. I'd even say the cost of a steam controller because it makes navigating without a keyboard a realistic option.
See, you keep doing shit like this. You keep throwing in random things that make no sense. I'm guessing you're talking about HTPCs? Those have nothing to do with what we're talking about.
I can literally plug in ANY COMPUTER TO ANY MODERN TV. There isn't any "specialization" or "rarity" to this.
Your anecdotes are not fact.
Spladam
Member
Guess I should factor in a new comfy couch and a brand new 4K TV for my console then
You think you could do this without the sarcasm or smart ass gifs? I think you can.
Yes, some of us game on TV's now, but it's not the prevailing interface yet. Steam learned this when they jumped the gun on the Steam machine, it was suppose to be the living room PC machine, but we're not there yet. It's why they added big picture mode, so you could interface with Steam using just a controller on your TV, and my buddy who used the TV in his studio/game room uses it. I'll try to get some data and see if we can't put numbers to this.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
These threads never end well. PC for multiplataforms and consoles for exclusives. OVER!
But what about PC exclusives ;P
My "living room" tv is a bog standard atx case.
The esa puts out information every year about software and how people are using formats. They have listed PCs in the living room as a more mainstream line or a steam link type product making traction since 2014. Not all PC users are straight m+k with gaming chair anymore.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014EUQOGK/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Steamlink and the Steam Controller are niche products for very specific situations. Look at how popular the k400 is. #1 best selling keyboard on Amazon.
ViolentP
Member
PC for multiplatform is the only relevant factor here as every platform has exclusives worth owning.
LordRaptor
Member
The problem is that nobody is doing that in this topic.
It is fucking shitty to start throwing shade at people on this forum because of how some other uncited people on other parts of the internet may or may not behave, and it is fucking toxic to any possibility of discussion in any sort of good faith.
I mean, I could easily go through his post history, find things he likes, then go onto other websites and find idiots who share those likes, then come back here and go "Oh, well you would say that, you're a gamer gater!" or whatever because he shares some opinions with shitheads on other forums, but that would be a hugely cuntish thing to do, and completely fucking unfair to attribute his beliefs to random other peoples on the internet.
I already replied and you've yet to answer.
To test a console you need a Monitor or a TV and to test a PC you also would need a Monitor or a PC. Literally both of these require a display device to be usable, what kind of display device don't matter and is irrelevant to the discussion and to what you think.
Like I said, I play console on the same monitor I play my PC, do I need to factor in a TV in the console price? If not, why would you need a monitor for a PC? If you do, your point is mute as both require it and it cost the same in both instances.
Don't matter what you think because your argument for needing a display device with a PC is so flawed you can see it from another galaxy.
Aztechnology
Member
I always feel like these threads just end up a kiddie piss pool for console only gamers to drop in and for some odd reason justify why they are console only and avoid PC.
Or to somehow politicize gaming machines like we're all in distinct camps.
Or to somehow politicize gaming machines like we're all in distinct camps.
Spladam
Member
From here on out we can stop mentioning that PC's can plug right into TV's. HDMI and Display port have unified things, we good on this now. It's pretty asinine that multiple people felt the need to point this out like it's a point of some kind.
You think most PC gamers are swapping inputs on their living room TV's? I'll try to get some data on this.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Just had to manually update all my drivers, solder the electrodes in my motherboard, and adjust some ini files to agree with this post.
Spladam
Member
I never said you "need" a monitor. I implied that it's still by far the most common PC display interface. You in turn posted smart ass pictures.