Angelus Errare
Banned
So does this give you upscaling options and stuff?
Man I'm so happy my launchbox still works. EE+GS up in dis bitch.
Man I'm so happy my launchbox still works. EE+GS up in dis bitch.
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PS2 Classics Emulator Hacked - Plays any PS2 game on any CFW PS3
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It can stretch and/or smooth the image.
Again, the PS2 bucked the trend, format be damned. People pissed about BC not being in a console are forgetting 20+ years of gaming. The norm, contrary to popular belief, is you buy a console to play that console's games. Anything else is a perk. Even PC is beginning to feel the sting of having "too up to date" hardware. The trend, if we're not being blind cynical ass holes, is remakes. MegaMan X collection, the Super Mario collection on SNES. Plenty of other examples.
First, let's be clear. The PS2 sold fucking gangbusters for many reasons that were not backwards compatibility. Same for the Wii and the DS. I brought up the Wii/DS scenario in case anybody wanted to use the GameBoy player on SNES as an earlier form of BC while not being pissed at Nintendo for not offering a way to play DS games on their system. There's a card slot, right? Should be able to offer something, right? It's a pedantic point, but not a logical fallacy. Most of the time, backwards compatibility isn't a thing. It was pulled from the DS, it was pulled from the Wii, and it was pulled from the PS3.
Second, to be more clear. The PS3 became gradually more, not less, successful with the removal of BC. Call it the new redesign, call it the price job, call it whatever. Obviously, and I'm no business major, if having BC was such a huge selling point they were afraid removing it would cause a loss due to the public's demand for said feature it would still be there. It's not that big of a deal hence it's removal having no real affect. Same with the Linux removal, despite how shady that was. Note, BC wasn't a factor in the development of PS4. People are concerned, but more people just want to play new games. People are fickle when it comes to choosing between standards and entertainment.
If people want to be bitter with Sony because programers found a way to get BC to work on a jailbroken (is that the proper term?)PS3, go for it. However, save the torches and pitchforks till we know more, or don't because it's actually not that big a deal. I know a guy that found a way to get every SNES game to work on the Wii, including the ones he owns. However, I have yet to see him get enraged that he has to pay for a digital copy if he wants a "legit" way to run the game.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Such a specious argument. The "classic console" norm was established because each console hand to accept completely different cartridges, different media.
Once CD-ROMs came into play, and subsequently when Sony at first put out a DVD-ROM based system (using a drive that could read CD-ROMs) it established the precedent that if the drive could read the media, the system could play the game. And this was true of the launch PS3's reaching back two generations, and to a limited degree the 360 reaching back their one generation.
And even in cases where a new system used new media, Nintendo in particular established precedent for at least one generation of BC in The Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, DS, 3DS, the Wii, and the WiiU, even if they have to build-in something extra that reads an entirely different cartridge or form of disk media.
So, here we find out Sony had the capability to unlock this on literally ALL PS3's, but gated it out so they could resell people the media consumers had already paid for. Sure, you could buy it for the first time digitally if you had missed it before. But on a current PS3, if you have an on-disk copy of God Hand, you can't play it. You can only play it if you buy it again.
And in the face of this bullshit, you're counter-argument is that Super Nintendo didn't play NES games.
Well, Atari 7800 played Atari 2600 games, dude. You are just seeing what you want to see in the past to make this apologist argument you, for some reason, feel so strongly about in the present.
Again that ignoring of the media. Your friend did not find a way to make legally purchased SNES cartridges work on a Wii. But he wouldn't have to crack anything to make his (at least early model) Wii read Gamecube disks, right?
When PS9 is running off of fucking holocubes, I won't expect to put my DVD-Rom based game in it and have it be read, okay?
And, for the record, even if you have a point that it is not a reasonable expectation of a consumer to have backwards compatibility built into their console (which I honestly don't think it is for the PS4... for PS3 games...), you're ignoring the fact that our expectations were set by the revelation of the fact that it's already built-in.
This is no pie-in-the-sky PS4 thread. This is a thread of outrage that the console had the functionality already in there, but it was gated out so you could be tricked into rebuying content, while bullshit PR tells you BC is just not a reasonable expectation, at the price.
The very same PR line you are spewing right back out onto this forum.
If the cracked BC hovers at 70-80% compatibility, than it is roughly the same as my 80GB PS3 Fat BC they sold to me after the launches were gone and told me would mostly work--which is pretty shitty, because instead of supporting it by selling me $1 compatibility packs or something they insisted on focusing all their effort on making me buy the game again (or, in actuality, rent the game from their online service for as long as it is up and my PS3 is functional).
And all this rebuy money just is publisher slush money. It's not like the developers of God Hand got a nice little check. So, the pirates and the publishers get what they want, and the developers get nothing, and the paying customer gets ripped off if they want the convenience of access to a built-in emulation program.
Awesome. Not even on any major news sites yet, from what I can see. And sheeple here saying 'What?" What's wrong with that?" Awesome.
I don't throw a fit that I can't play X game on my PC because it's too new, and that's the same format. Just because the piece of plastic that has data on it fits in a slot doesn't mean I should expect it to work forever in something else it happens to fit in. I should have the expectation for it to work with the device I purchased it to work for.
They established no precedent. While a cool feature, it was a brand new idea that had never done before (save Atari, and we see how successful that turned out) due to the new console medium, but that doesn't mean one should expect it to work that way for ever. It doesn't even work that way on PC. PS3's can still play PS1 games with no problem. Why should we automatically assume that THIS feature was pulled solely for nefarious reasons? Why is it a huge affront to consumer rights when there are thousands of games out there that have zero abitility to be played today, should you not own the console, by companies that still exist?
And then they yanked that shit out. Granted, 3DS plays DS games, but how about them GBA games? Sometimes advertised features of a product change.
Actually no. You can't buy it again, it's not on PSN. You have to use a PS2 or an older PS3. What we found out is that some games work. Possibly all, we don't know yet, with this particular emulator. We do know that some PS2 games are for sale on PSN and they work, but even those games sometimes have issues. The idea that Sony pulled BC simply to fuck over consumers is silly. If that was the truth, I'm sure they would have found a much more creative way to get more money out of it. It could very well, and I know this is hard to believe, they just simply didn't want to deal with it anymore and it was expensive for them to deal with. Who fucking knows?
Actually, no. My counter-arguement is that the expectation one should have is that a console game should work on the console they buy. If it works on a different console, that's great, but that's not an expectation you should have. That's all.
God damn, you're fucking bitter aren't you. Shit. Yes, Atari did that, and now they don't exist. Seems BC back then, as today, isn't that big of a seller. (that's me being a smart ass) I don't feel that strongly about it. I just think it's unreasonable to be outraged by this particular issue from Sony where there's other things to be frustrated with them, and the industry as a whole, about. Seriously, nobody took your PS2 or your older PS3. There's still plenty of them out there.
Okay.... and now Wii doesn't play Gamecube games, but it can be hacked to do that. Does that frustrate you as much as this issue? Is it really that angering that you can't play a different consoles game on a different console?
Okay.... so, what you're saying is, if formats change, you don't expect things to continue to work. That's great, because the format between the PS2 and PS3, while the same shape, are not the same. Neither is the technology. I'm not saying it's not doable, I'm saying it's not the expectation. See PS3 to PS4 BC issues.
Okay, so to be clear, it's not a reasonable expectation to have PS3 games play on PS4. But PS2 to PS3 angers you because it USED to be there? It's not already built in, anymore. It was. They took it out, and they don't advertise it. They're not hiding this. It's not some sort of bait and switch. I'm sorry it's frustrating, but they're not lying or anything.
They removed a feature and they discontinued advertising it. They did not lie to you. You knew exactly what you were exchanging currency for if you have a newer console. This is not like pulling Linux. There was a feature, and they removed it. They didn't fuck an current consumer of the PS3 over.
Yes, that sucks. They COULD have done it differently, but they didn't. Instead they said "rebuy it on PSN, or play on your PS2." I don't think that's unfair, just because you used to be able to do it.
Yes, that sucks. Luckily you can buy it to play on your PS2. That wasn't taken from you. It's a shitty situation, but it's not exactly unreasonable for a company to say "you can use our past products with our past products, but in the future we're trying to move away from that."
Just noticed this thread... so many emotions right now...
I'm not going to hack my PS3, so I'm just going to pretend that I never saw this...
Edit: I need to at least get a few words in...
If this really works even remotely well with most games, this may be one of the most anti-consumer moves I've ever seen. Sony has achieve PS2 emulation on PS3, but instead of giving it to customers, they make you pay for it title by title... and they release far too few titles to make it justifiable to me in any ethical way. Perhaps if by now a large % of PS2 titles that I actually care about were available... but that's far from the case.
Granted... 75% of the gems of my PS2 collection have had HD ports... but my real favorites (ZOE, Silent Hill) are inferior ports. And Xenosaga is nowhere to be seen... along with many MANY others.
This news fills me with rage most of all... with the slightest glimmer of hopeless hope...
I'm not going to hack my PS3, so I'm just going to pretend that I never saw this...
Edit: I need to at least get a few words in...
If this really works even remotely well with most games, this may be one of the most anti-consumer moves I've ever seen. Sony has achieve PS2 emulation on PS3, but instead of giving it to customers, they make you pay for it title by title... and they release far too few titles to make it justifiable to me in any ethical way. Perhaps if by now a large % of PS2 titles that I actually care about were available... but that's far from the case.
Granted... 75% of the gems of my PS2 collection have had HD ports... but my real favorites (ZOE, Silent Hill) are inferior ports. And Xenosaga is nowhere to be seen... along with many MANY others.
This news fills me with rage most of all... with the slightest glimmer of hopeless hope...
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Veezy bro we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this.
For me, this revelation makes this thing exactly like pulling out the Linux support. It was there in hardware, and they gimped it and removed hardware for reasons I can totally understand, but it was there too in software, in an incomplete buggy form or not, and they just hid that away to repackage and resell it, and lied to us that it wasn't in there at all.
I didn't come into the most recent console generation with the expectation of backward compatibility. The Atari 7800 did not set the precedent for my expectations.
It was Sony itself, and Nintendo and Microsoft, and the fact that these constantly update-able, patchable, online-drm susceptible consoles are pretty much becoming PC's so MAYBE they can also present me some of the benefits of PC's, that lead to the advancement of my expectations for BC.
They made the bed, now they got to sleep in it.
For me, this revelation makes this thing exactly like pulling out the Linux support. It was there in hardware, and they gimped it and removed hardware for reasons I can totally understand, but it was there too in software, in an incomplete buggy form or not, and they just hid that away to repackage and resell it, and lied to us that it wasn't in there at all.
I didn't come into the most recent console generation with the expectation of backward compatibility. The Atari 7800 did not set the precedent for my expectations.
It was Sony itself, and Nintendo and Microsoft, and the fact that these constantly update-able, patchable, online-drm susceptible consoles are pretty much becoming PC's so MAYBE they can also present me some of the benefits of PC's, that lead to the advancement of my expectations for BC.
They made the bed, now they got to sleep in it.
Possibly. I just see a distinction between removing something that is no longer advertised on future products and removing a feature from an already purchased product.
No worries though, I see where you're coming from. Nothing but love, mang, keep fighting that good fight. You have sword if there are zero plans for PS3 PSN purchases in the future (I really hope there's a plan in place for that shit). Luckily, PCSX2 will be there for you to run PS2 games for ya. Seriously, it's a great program.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Yeah I got some PAL imports coming in so I was going to end up checking out PCSX2 anyway. No worries here too. We are brothers.
How exactly does ZOE2 run? Slow downs? Glitches?
test_account
XP-39C²
OtherOS (Linux) support was removed from systems that were already sold though. PS3s that were sold with PS2 backward compability still has that feature. Sony never advertised that other PS3 models could play PS2 games, so no one has payed anything extra for that. It is a pretty big difference between those things, in my opinion. Not that many complained when OtherOS wasnt present in the PS3 Slims, but when it was removed from the PS3 Phat models in a firmware update, that is why someone got angry.
Sony offers PS1 discs support eventhough that they sell PS1 games digitally as well. I'm not sure if the PS2 emulator stuff is related just to wanting to make more money. As you mentioned earlier, the PS2 games is also to be sold to people who didnt play the game to begin with, or for people who simply want the convenience of not having to bother inserting the original game disc. Personally i'll wait to see when someone makes PS2 discs work with the PS2 emulator without any problems. Then we know for sure that it is not a technical issue.
How did Sony lie to us by the way? Did they say that it wasnt possible to offer 100% software PS2 backward compability on the PS3? Although on this, keep in mind that the PS2 backward compbility models were discontunied in 2007/2008, while the first PS2 Classic digitally download game wasnt being sold before late 2011. If Sony said anything before that date, like for example in 2009 or 2010, then it might have been true.
It wasnt something that was there in software too. Well, it was partially in software, that is true, but doubtfully a fully functionally software PS2 emulator, otherwise it would be kinda pointless to include PS2 hardware in the PS3 to begin with. Then they could just have went the 100% software solution from day one instead, just like they do with the PS1 emulation on PS3
I'm pretty sure that they did more work on the PS2 emulator later on, eventhough that they might not have worked on it continuously for 3-4 years after the PS2 hardware was removed from the PS3. So it wouldnt be something that was just hidden, repacked and being sold. If that was the case, then i'd totally see your point.EDIT: Generally speaking, in comparison, how did people react when it was shown that the WiiU can play Gamecube games, but Nintendo doesnt offer backward compability for it? Was it confirmed that the WiiU cant take Gamecube discs? As in, not possible to insert Gamecube discs into the system.
Not being able to play games straight off a disc doesn't really tell us anything. Even the PS2 Classics rumor from the people that were doing QA on a ton of PS2 games said that they could only play off a hard drive, but that only means disc support wasn't added (or more likely, disabled), not that it couldn't be added.
All the hackers have done is find a loophole in the encryption, altering how the emulator works is a much more difficult task. But it doesn't mean Sony couldn't add disc support to the emulator with a week's worth of work. The old partial software BC systems had disc support, and this emulator appears to be an extension of that emulator, so I don't see how disc support would be a problem.
I seem to recall they were upset (as they should be), but I get the impression Wii U fans have bigger battles currently. A lot more people own PS3s, and there's probably more interest in the PS2 library than the Gamecube one (hence all the HD collections). Just guessing. Plus there's a little extra frustration from people like myself who purchased a BC PS3 because I knew I'd be using the BC a lot, but whose BC system died and are stuck with non-BC Slims and a big PS2 collection.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, i agree. I dont mean to say that disc support is impossible, i just mean that if someone makes disc support works, then there is absolutely no doubt that there isnt a technical issue/limitation at hand
Yeah, i can see the desire for wanting it, especially if it seems to be possible. I dont really agree with the "this is just because of greed and i'm really pissed at Sony because they dont give this feature to me" reason though based on that PS1 discs still works, yet they are also being sold digitally. But that is just my guess.
After this PS2 emulator reveal, i think it shall be interesting to see what happends with future PS3 firmware update(s). Then i'm thinking of that Sony maybe offers PS2 backward compability on the PS3 through a firmware update. I dont predict that it will happen, but it shall be interesting to see nonetheless
It could be an extra selling point that might keep the PS3 selling better for the upcoming time (kinda like the PS2 still sold great eventhough that the PS3 was released).
ss_lemonade
Member
From what I remember, its got slowdowns and some effects may have been pared back or are missing? All I know is that the ps2 versions are better lol.
Digital Foundry should do an article on that.
test_account
XP-39C²
No, they havnt exactly blocked it. At least to me that would indicate that there was feature that is present in the PS3 to begin with. What they apparently are doing is not offering it for free now that they have been able to make a working PS2 emulator for the PS3. What the exact reason(s) for this is are anyone's guess.
Thanks but i was referring to the emulator on ps3. Has anyone tried to get ZOE2 to run on the ps3? Come to think of it of GOW2 runs like shit then theres no hope for Ghost hunter, transformers and ZOE2.
Is there anything new here, the corporate boot-lickers will sooner or later take over the thread.
Not going to happen unless mainstream media covers this extensively.
Best solution would be to do a low level unlock through a fw update + add blu-ray reader access to the emulator, but have it as a separate download under the XMB Games menu. When downloading they could just have a big disclaimer going "THIS IS NOT FINAL SOFTWARE. NOT ALL PS2 GAMES WORK. DONT COME COMPLAIN TO US. WE KNOW." And release as is.
test_account
XP-39C²
Dont you think that would have happend already now that we're over 400 posts in? Or maybe i have missed some posts?
I agree, i think it is a very small chance for actually happening. I dont think there is a big enough demand for something like this at this point in time. But we'll see what happends
Releasing unfinished software like that seems to be unpresedented i think? Although it might be done. Afterall, backward compability in general arent always guaranteed to work 100% either.
Sapiens
Member
Would be nice to have.
Especially with PS4 being BC with nothing, having a PS3 Slim that does all the legacy stuff would be PERFECT.
But the world is not this kind.
In a few years, having a backed PS3 will probably be the best option.
My 60Gigger is still going strong, but for how long?
SONY, please reward me! I promise, I'll buy the occasional HD remake. Hell, I'd even pay for this emulator if it meant updates and shit.
Especially with PS4 being BC with nothing, having a PS3 Slim that does all the legacy stuff would be PERFECT.
But the world is not this kind.
In a few years, having a backed PS3 will probably be the best option.
My 60Gigger is still going strong, but for how long?
SONY, please reward me! I promise, I'll buy the occasional HD remake. Hell, I'd even pay for this emulator if it meant updates and shit.
Dreamgazer
Member
I'm not sure what to think about this yet.
If the only way to do BC is to have the game stored and patched on the HDD as a new ISO, then I can understand not allowing it for piracy reasons.
If it's technically feasible to do BC straight off of the disc, then yeah...this just corporate greed.
If the only way to do BC is to have the game stored and patched on the HDD as a new ISO, then I can understand not allowing it for piracy reasons.
If it's technically feasible to do BC straight off of the disc, then yeah...this just corporate greed.
They invented this limitation. It is how they wrote the code, not a physical limitation of the device.
Pachterballs
Banned
reverse engineering the code is probably illegal?
What?
Homebrew dudes did not make the emulator, it is already in every PS3 system. They just found a way to trick the PS3 into thinking its booting a PS2 Classics game, thus starting the emulator.
Sony made the emulator and they have all the PS3 code to give the emulator access to the discdrive.
Technically yes . But we can still talk about it right? There has not been any links to ISOs or anything.
GrayFoxPL
Member
ZOE2 works on PAL ps3 with software emu. I finished it on PS3.
I think they're using basically the same emu on classic because the didn't release any games that weren't already compatible on PAL emu.
test_account
XP-39C²
I think he means that if the original emulator only works with ISOs, and disc support isnt technically possible.
Yeah, definitely see where you're coming from there.Yeah, i agree. I dont mean to say that disc support is impossible, i just mean that if someone makes disc support works, then there is absolutely no doubt that there isnt a technical issue/limitation at hand
It's obviously feasible to do BC straight off the disc, this emulator appears to be based on the partial software one that was included in launch Euro systems. The only reason it currently requires an ISO on the HDD is because that's the loophole modders found.
Dreamgazer
Member
test_account
XP-39C²
Its possible, but i come to think of PCSX2 (PS2 emulator for PC). That project has been going on for like 10 years without being stopped, and surely there have been done reverse engineering to make such an emulator?
Yeah but doesnt the pal version have the GS?
test_account
XP-39C²
By the way, was this only achieveable due to a loophole/exploit? What was stopping them from decrypting and signing the PS2 Classic games? I thought this was done through reverse engineering.
Everyone keeps pointing out that Microsoft allows software bc but to be fair you have to pay for it by buying a harddrive. Same with the original ps3. So how many people here feeling indignant about this would pay 100 bucks for software bc. Let Sony know maybe they will release it but be honest people developing this was not free and few people would pay the cost of it when it is probably 70-75% compatible.
I bought a 60GB on launch just because of BC compatibility (no RPGs at launch), so what do you think?
On one side it's good to see that fully software based PS2 emulation is possible on PS3 without having to make specific tweaks to the code for each game. Considering the peculiarities of the GS and its high bandwidth embedded ram, it's definetly a great technological achievement.
On the other side it's really disappointing that they have a decent PS2 emulator in their hands and they just want people to buy the same games again digitally....also publishers have been really slow in creating digital versions of their PS2 classics, the games selection on the store is still really poor and limited compared to what the PS2 could offer. They're sending the message that the costs of republishing and testing again are not worth it considering the sales....but at this point why don't they just unlock the emulator?
On the other side it's really disappointing that they have a decent PS2 emulator in their hands and they just want people to buy the same games again digitally....also publishers have been really slow in creating digital versions of their PS2 classics, the games selection on the store is still really poor and limited compared to what the PS2 could offer. They're sending the message that the costs of republishing and testing again are not worth it considering the sales....but at this point why don't they just unlock the emulator?
Brad Grenz
Member
No, you played it on a PS3 with partial hardware backwards compatibility. The PS2 Classics emulator is not the same.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Compatibility looks the same anyway.
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
Looks cool, but I agree with the above poster. I enjoy PSN and +, and I can just play PCSx2 at 1980p with a DS3 on my gaming PC. I know this isn't an option for everyone, so this is a good alternative. Might try it out if I can ever fix this "broken" PS3 I have laying around.
See that's what i thought. But why all this effort to bring these games to psn if ps4 isn't compatible? And i wonder is the vita is powerful enough to run the classic...
Just so we're on the same page, that Linux business and the new Sim City is some of dat bullshit, right? Yafeelme?
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
There was a time when i'd really care about something like this, but the joys of PCSX2 and some well made HD collections have made it too difficult to go back to PS2-era gaming in SD.
H_Prestige
Banned
Now that they have discontinued the ps2, they better unlock it. And also get the emulator running on ps4 day one.
lolz
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
SneakyStephan
Banned
He IS talking about the ps3 version (the hd port;p) and I was talk about the pc emulator not the ps3 one.
Bollox, an ISO is literally a disc image, if an iso works a disc works too.
Brad Grenz
Member
It isn't. Have you looked at the compatibility list today? http://www.pshomebrew.net/wiki/PS2_Classics_Emulator_Compatibility_List
Half the unsupported games tested so far have either minor, or major problems, often involving performance issues, which is just like knowledgeable people have always expected. The problem isn't just emulating the hardware, it is doing so reliably and fast enough for game performance to not be impacted.
The idea that all PS2 games would work in this emulator on every PS3 is pure fantasy. Some will, some won't, and many will have performance issues, which is why Sony tests them individually for release on PSN.
This is the thread about the hacked, pure software emulator on PS3. Answers about an HD port or PCSX2 are useless. He's asking because ZOE2 is notoriously hard to emulate, and even had performance issues when ported to PS3 and 360. How well the emulated version runs (or how poorly it does) should put to rest the fantasy that all PS2 games work perfectly fine with the pure software emulator.
Not if the software has no way to read from the physical disc drive.
Right. But look:
God of War 2-Major Issues-Huge slowdown when special FX are onscreen.
But then there's:
Gran Turismo 4-Minor Issues-screen jumps at car selection screen
1 or 2 minor (random) stutters on certain tracks during gameplay
random slowdown during replays when the car is close to the camera.
and
Killzone-Playable-None.
These games make use of heavy alpha blending. But it's very case by case. This emulator probably has a 50% compatibity ratio.
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