-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PUBG Developer BlueHole bans a person for allegedly "stream sniping"
- Thread starter SteveO409
- Start date
Do we know this is first stream snipe ban? Genuinely curious.
A Grizzly Bear
Member
So you're saying that the streamer's stream is showing up in the game? And that the stream sniper is just being shown the stream without them taking any other action? That's exactly what that silly analogy implies.
Exactly. This is the part I don't understand and why the game developer feels they even need to try police this (and judging by this, do it poorly).
I feel like I'm in crazyland reading so many comments trying to cater to live streamers when they can simply choose to do something else.
yes, the duo partner has a screen shot of a random game from nearly 3 weeks ago where they randomly matched with summit. again, how does this prove that NOVAs duo partner lotoe, was stream sniping shroud in this scenario?
it's not a "random guy". it's the guy that killed "shroud" in a game where he'd been calling other people stream snipers the entire time, and his chat vigilante justice reported the guy that got the killing blow. PUBG support even initally claimed that his ban was due to the volume of reports, and that they "investigated the matter after the fact".
Huge Succeeded
Banned
You're saying live streamers can 'simply choose' to do something else, other than streaming
something they enjoy doing
something their audience enjoys watching
something they've put time, money, and effort into
something totally fucking benign
but you don't consider
that there's someone who also can 'simply choose to do something else'
and that's the stream sniper, the person who
is targeting one person
in order to harass them
for shitty reasons
and you'd rather advocate for that guy.
for fuck's sake, what's wrong with you people? You wanna talk about crazyland?
because griefing is a shitty thing to do and streaming is not. That's why many games have been 'policing' this, for years now, instead of just telling streamers to fuck off.
It's not, at least I saw someone else on the subreddit claiming they also got a ban in that OG thread.
Buuut, there she should be a lot bigger of an uproar if people who the streamers call stream snipers daily would get banned.
Random guy as in, one of many that gets accused of stream sniping by streamers and their possé.
You should have no expectation of privacy if you're publicly broadcasting your gameplay, especially without a delay
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Tell me how you feel about paparazzi
Anyway... when I stream, I don't have 'the expectation of privacy', whatever that means. I just expect not to get griefed. If I do, I'm going to report the griefer, as though they're in the wrong, because
get this
they are~! They're the bad people doing things they shouldn't do! I mean, I know, that's a tough pill to swallow, but it's true.
The other options are:
1. Stream with a longer delay (something from reading this thread, is apparently possible)
2. Stream live, accept the risk, and don't complain. You're the one giving away free information.
3. Don't stream this game. Maybe an "extreme" option but it's there.
Yes. I'll side with the player over the streamer. The one playing the game and using information freely available to them without hacking the game in any way. It's morally shitty but hey, if they're a hardcore "play to win" gamer, go for it.
You can turn off the broadcast or delay it. I'm not saying that I stream snipe, I don't. But if I was "famous" enough to get stream sniped, that's on me, I know the risks that come with broadcasting gameplay.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Griefers aren't playing to win. I wish you guys would stop trying to act like griefers, stream snipers, are just trying to gain a competitive edge with publicly available information, because that's a gross misrepresentation of what they do.
Do you think that targeting and killing one player amongst one hundred is their means by which to win the game? Do you think that's why anyone stream snipes? Have you ever actually seen PUBG, or any of the games where stream sniping is actually a problem for that matter? (hint: games with no win states)
They doing it to target and harass one player. That's it. That's why it's griefing. That's why it's bad. That's why the devs agree that the stream snipers are the shitty people: because it's morally shitty and that's it. It doesn't help them win. It helps them annoy and harass one player.
QuantumSquid
Member
stream sniping is shitty, but from the looks of it, shroud's army of fans just reported the guy who killed him on the assumption that he was sniping, because of course shroud is so good that nobody can kill him fair and square.
stream sniping is the sort of thing i would only ban someone for if they did it a ton and i had concrete evidence to prove it.
stream sniping is the sort of thing i would only ban someone for if they did it a ton and i had concrete evidence to prove it.
packy34
Member
Stream-sniping is against the TOS. Its griefing at best, and cheating at worst. I cant believe so many people are defending it.
Its their fault if they stream is such a bullshit excuse - this is a career for a lot of these people. And adding a delay directly affects their ability to communicate with their audience, something they shouldnt be forced to do just to avoid trolls.
Its their fault if they stream is such a bullshit excuse - this is a career for a lot of these people. And adding a delay directly affects their ability to communicate with their audience, something they shouldnt be forced to do just to avoid trolls.
LostMyNarbles
Member
It seems like one way to limit the possibility of stream sniping would be to blackout your screen during lobby and until you land out of the plane. I forget who I was watching one day that did that (Think it was Aculite) but it feels like it'd do a good job to prevent anybody from preemptively trying to join your game. I don't condone stream snipers one bit, but it is something that cannot be avoided regardless of what game you play and if you're going to complain about it you should try to do what you can to avert it.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Yeah, I would too. I wouldn't bitch every time I died like some streamers and I certainly wouldn't be quick to assume stream sniping.
I'm not gonna turn off my broadcast because one asshole with mental issues wanted to give me a hard time. That's how griefers win.
but, feel free to advocate for that one asshole. According to qwyjibo, they'd stalk and harass me, committing half of their focus to deciphering my location based on my screen, instead of staying aware of their own surroundings... all for the competitive advantage!
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I imagine many people in here had that understated contempt for streamers that used to be more commonly seen on GAF, before everyone started shutting that shit down and sending those assholes back into the woodwork.
buuuuh! they're making money playing video games! as far as I'm concerned, they're not even people anymore! get a real job!!
agreed. watching hearthstone arena runs and destiny trials of osiris runs get sniped by people trying to ruin that run for a streamer is fucking frustrating for the viewers so i can only imagine how shitty it must feel as the streamer. people that do that kind of shit are actual assholes that should take a step back and reall think about their lives.
i think those types of people are brazen about it though, and more often than not hit the streamer with the "lol gg" in their chat after the game ends though, and that's even worse.
I think we're just going in circles here. I understand both sides of the argument, I choose to side with one side more.
A Grizzly Bear
Member
What expectation of privacy?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
And I choose to sympathize with the people who have done nothing wrong. Instead of making excuses for the assholes who break the rules to engage in targeted harassment.
QuantumSquid
Member
harassment is a bit of an exaggeration. they're being followed in a videogame. kinda insulting to people who deal with actual harassment.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
'Harassment' doesn't just have one context in which the word can be used. if I'm sitting behind you in class making stupid noises to get your attention... I'm harassing you, lmao.
and stream sniping is targeted harassment. you are targeting one person so that you can fuck with them. I'm not sure what phrase I should have used instead.
packy34
Member
And this thread has hit critical levels of garbage
No shit. The low-rent victim-blaming going on in here is pathetic. I just wish I could say I was surprised.
Kadin
Member
Come back after stepping away for a bit and I see more and more, "well if they don't want to deal with it, don't stream. Simple." responses. I just don't get this. Why is it the streamer's fault for doing what they do and not being allowed to have an expectation for that to not be used against them? Why are people so quick to blame them and not the actual person doing it? The only thing I can think of is that people feel the act of stream sniping isn't a big deal and just want to dismiss the whole thing.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
my guess is many of the people here never liked 'streaming' to begin with. you remember the rhetoric, right?
"getting paid to play video games??? those people don't have the right to complain about anything ever!" ~ GAF, 2012
Rickenslacker
Banned
Man, this thread is so petty. I'm not going to defend griefing or cheating or anything of that nature, but if the methods of determining it was spurious and possibly tagging legitimate users it's something that can be handled better.
If someone just likes throwing their wallet on the street, and someone else picks it up and walks away with it not knowing whose it is, they might be a thief, they might be intending on returning it -- but I'm not going to assume the worst when someone could just not have their wallet out to begin with. Silly analogy, but there are so many vectors here and it's not just a matter of "I told you mom and dad, playing video games ISN'T a waste of time!!" or some hate of streamers or whatever asspull narrative people want to delve into. Ugh.
If someone just likes throwing their wallet on the street, and someone else picks it up and walks away with it not knowing whose it is, they might be a thief, they might be intending on returning it -- but I'm not going to assume the worst when someone could just not have their wallet out to begin with. Silly analogy, but there are so many vectors here and it's not just a matter of "I told you mom and dad, playing video games ISN'T a waste of time!!" or some hate of streamers or whatever asspull narrative people want to delve into. Ugh.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
If you're being griefed then it's probably your fault for playing online anyway. Just don't play video games online and you won't get griefed. It's that simple.
No, that analogy is silly. I think paparazzi are a more appropriate analogy. Is it okay for somebody to fuck with your life freely because you're a public figure?
Yes, of course! If you don't like it, just, like, don't be a public figure! Duh~!
No, that analogy is silly. I think paparazzi are a more appropriate analogy. Is it okay for somebody to fuck with your life freely because you're a public figure?
Yes, of course! If you don't like it, just, like, don't be a public figure! Duh~!
Rickenslacker
Banned
Or having a game that details lobby information and is predicated on a competitive environment and being concealed isn't the most ideal one to have streamed with no delay or having all the information on screen at all times. When you rely on putting the internet on some honour system, people are going to break that, d'uh, but the matter of mending it seems easier on the streamer/game level than it does on some case by case judgement of who dun it.
Kadin
Member
I was just reading a news story about how Paparazzi apparently climbed some trees and took photos of George Clooney's newborn children in their home. I mean, was the expectation that they should have had their blinds closed to avoid that?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
it only seems easier to you because you're not a streamer. do you think choosing not to stream at all because of some asshole is an easy choice for the streamer, or for the game developer whose audience enjoys streams and who enjoys extra visibility thanks to streams? From their perspectives, it's better - not necessarily easier, but just better - to allow streaming and attempt to cull stream sniping instead. As this situation has evidenced, sometimes that goes wrong, but it's a rare enough occurrence (an occurance that's less likely to happen again now, in the wake of this discussion, as well as one for which ban appeal systems exist for) that I still prefer the system in place over a system where the streamer is maligned for streaming, instead of the person trying to annoy or harass them.
No, what they did was wrong. You have expectation of privacy when in your home.
Rickenslacker
Banned
It is not a choice of stream versus not stream at all here, it's a matter of making stream sniping an incredibly difficult/unlikely proposition to begin with when the nature of determining such a thing can be flaky. The game has some kind of Elo matchmaking, so to begin with to be matched with a streamer you'd have to be within their rank range. From there, disabling lobby information would make it difficult to know whether you're in the same game with them -- not streaming the lobby/skydiving at all as well (Grimmmz does this). The game has a minute long countdown to starting the match, a half-minute delay is significant for a deterrent but not for stream interaction. The game could simply have a delay in leaving a lobby and rejoining a new one as well.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
And yet, someone still took pictures of the inside of their home. Despite it being against the rules.
Sort of like how when you stream, you have expectation of not having to deal with stream sniping (because it's against the rules... against the TOS of every major streaming service, as well as the games played therein)...
...but sometimes, griefers grief anyway.
What's strange is how you identify the paparazzi as being in the wrong here, but can't say the same for a griefer.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
oh, I gotcha. I agree - there are ways to lessen the potential of griefing when you're streaming, and as a streamer, you should take those precautions, period. Many PUBG streamers take the exact precautions you describe. I'd have less than normal amounts of sympathy for someone who doesn't take these precautions and then whines about stream sniping.
It's
Rickenslacker
Banned
That's basically been my take here the whole time. I'm not for griefing, or cheating, or anything of that sort -- if someone TKs and gets banned, good. If someone is using a hack and gets banned, good. Those are so open and shut and concrete to determine that I have no qualms with it. It's just a case like this is harder to determine and I don't trust Bluehole having some Minority Report tech on their end when there are so many obvious preventive steps they could add instead.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
The two situations are more similar than you'd have us believe. This difference aside, we've still got people who are breaking the rules in order to harass people for their own selfish whims. And yet, one is obviously wrong, whereas jumping through hoops to defend the other is acceptable, and I don't get that.
Stream sniping = people breaking the rules of both the game service and the streaming platform, in order to gain an advantage over ONE player, for the sole purpose of harassing them. It ain't right, but in this very thread you have people actually positing that people stream snipe for a 'competitive edge', as though stream sniping were no different from a solid combo in a fighting game and we're all just calling it 'cheap'.
Kadin
Member
Minority Report... I really liked that movie. Can you imagine having a system like that in today's world? Arresting people before the actual crime is committed? It'd be nuts... lol
On topic, I have to believe that this whole issue has definitely had an impact in some fashion to hopefully prevent this stuff from happening in the future. Sure some will continue to do it, and then probably buy another copy and do it again after being banned. But that's just the way it goes. I'm happy Bluehole has at least tried to make a stand about this and put the word out that they're aggressive about trying to prevent this stuff.
Pretty much as expected. I'm not sure why some posters here were so adamant the devs were lying and had no ability to track players and just banned this guy because "the streamers cried about it".
That's not what's going to happen, people need to chill. They don't need to be able to "prove he was watching the stream" if they have data clearly showing he joined and disconnected from multiple servers the streamer wasn't in, and only stayed in servers the streamer was in. It's pretty obvious, especially as a lot of the bigger streamers are constantly jumping around between North American, Asian and European servers in an attempt to reduce the chances of stream-sniping.
Everyone has quickly forgotten about DrDisRespect who is one of, if not the biggest PUBG/Twitch streamer right now, who was temp-banned a week or so ago for breaking the Rules of Conduct by team-killing a random player in his squad. Streamers aren't a protected species.
In a case like this, I'll go with the devs word over a random Reddit-user every day of the week.
I still don't like that they are banning you for act that they admit they can't prove.
Bluehole would save themselves from a lot of headache and community drama by just creating "Streamer UI" toggle that hides a lot key information and then put queue CD in place so if you DC from lobby or match you can't re-queue for next e.g. 60 seconds.
Nydus
Member
Or they just ban streamsnipers and leave the honest people alone. Why implement hurdles for everyone when they have tools to target individuals?
Streamer UI alone would solve large majority of stream sniping issues and kill it as practice for large part. How that is hurdle for everyone when that would be on On / Off toggle? Also game doesn't have rejoin option anyways so having re-queue CD wouldn't really affect player experience, even if you have to queue hop in case of crash as 60 seconds isn't that long.
When Bluehole bans people for stream sniping based on only queue behavior and once they 100% automate report to ban process (it's their goal) I expect false positives and bans. Streamer UI + re-queue CD would remove need to ban for this fuckery as it would eliminate this fuckery from the game.
wesleyshark
Banned
No, that's still on the asshole trying to grief or cheat.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
That's a bullshit argument, rules should apply to everyone no matter your status.
So basically just like the court system where you have to have all your i's dotted and your t's crossed to get a conviction while the criminal can do whatever they want with no rules in place looking for any loophole they can to get off.