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[VlaudTheImpaler]

That is so far from the truth, that I'm absolutely flabbergasted.

 

[shintoki]

Imagine you've worked insanely hard creating an amazing game. One unlike any other, what could literally be the next Minecraft. Of course in interviews you'd be enthusiastic about the possibilities of the game, be it at launch or down the road a bit.

The PS4 has a lot of limitations, but the PC version has only just launched. Mods will fix some problems, patches will fix others. The base game is still incredible. Maybe your expectations were higher than mine, but to me what was advertised is for the most part what I'm getting.

Compare this release to the first Alpha release of Minecraft. A huge patch, expansion pack or sequel that builds on this is gonna be amazing. A mod could flip on multiplayer tomorrow and you've got the best MMO ever made.

This is the weakest ass excuse yet.

Release broken game, modders can fix it for us for free!

 

[Beefy]

Hope the shit storm makes them make the dlc free, but I doubt it. I think the game is ok, but nothing like they hyped about.

This reminds me big time of first day Destiny.

 

[SugarDaddy]

I just wanted a fully 3d Rebels Galaxy dammit

 

[hitsugi]

This is the weakest ass excuse yet.

Release broken game, modders can fix it for us for free!

Sadly that is the only hope I have for this game. Modders have already done a number on removing the god awful filters on the game, among other things. While it is possible to improve a game on PC, it is kind of sad for PS4 users.. like me. Why did I buy it on PS4? To see it on my TV. Oops.

 

[Last Hearth]

In NMS, the star systems are basically disjointed levels or stages.

The pretty hyperdrive screen is a loading screen.

The planet landing sequence is a loading screen. Try landing with the graphics set to a lower res and see how quickly you can land.

The 18 quintillion planets is bullshit. They don't exist until you load a level and the game probably picks out one of 16^16 permutations.

Space is apparently full of fuel rich asteroids.

Oh and the sky is perpetually lit up with some unknown source of light, even when you're flying through empty space with no atmosphere.

All land masses have the same gravity. Even the space ports.

Every land mass has been visited by another alien race before you. They've built their facilities on it. But for some reason you get to be the special snowflake who gets to name that planet.

The developers created the game around a gimmick. Its not even a technical marvel like many think it is, once you realize that all the land masses are simply giant stationary floating set pieces.

This is a mediocre game, and an utter garbage space exploration game.

Your post is the perfect illustration of why they did what they did.
NMS if sold as the product it is would have been indie title that garnered maybe 1% of its current sales.

They purposely lied when they realized that with the hype they could make enough money for their entire team to retire.

 

[EatinOlives]

This has been my biggest personal complaint. The damn planets just have way too much stuff on them, and way too close together. There will literally be two or three ruins, four or five buildings, and three or four drop pods all within like 2 minutes of each other. And it doesn't help when so much of it is so similar to the other stuff that is less than a 2 minute walk away.

That just makes it feel more like I am in some shitty suburb going from strip mall to strip mall rather than like I am exploring a planet. The stuff is just WAY too dense. That isn't what I envisioned at all.

Interesting you mention this, since in the Giant Beastcast podcast the panel was talking about the exact same feeling. The "yeah let's take a road trip across the country!" feeling only to be met with strip mall after strip mall on your way to the next gas station. They likened the monotony to that of No Man's Sky when you settle into the rote motions of jumping from planet to planet and doing the required whatevers before doing the jump to the next system.

There was also a lot of interesting discussion about how the game would've worked a lot better as a "cartography simulator" than about just another survival sandbox game, where placing the emphasis a lot more on exploring and providing plenty of mechanics to facilitate or reward planet exploration, putting in mechanics that let you catalog your discoveries, mapping the area, etc., as opposed to simply "discovering" randomly placed instances of creatures/ruins/etc., naming them, and just going about your day.

One final thing I think the game missed the mark on is the fact that there's very little tool in the way of sharing what you're discovering with other people. Obviously there's screenshot/video sharing and streaming, but in many other procedurally generated games like Minecraft and Starbound, there's ways for you to share your discoveries by giving other people your "seed". If you see screenshots of a really cool planet or creature, you can't do anything other than just hope you land on either that exact same planet or a similar one. Basically all you can do is look at other people's discoveries and say "hey that's cool". Hell, the game doesn't even have a way of disabling the HUD or a photo mode.

 

[Cave Johnson]

Your post is the perfect illustration of why they did what they did.
NMS if sold as the product it is would have been indie title that garnered maybe 1% of its current sales.

They purposely lied when they realized that with the hype they could make enough money for their entire team to retire.

The fact that threads like this exist destroys your argument entirely. Consider that this is a reactionary stance based on POST release - meaning - it was sold based on the product (it would have been). Consumers didn't have the full picture until much later when all the evidence has been mounting up that the game wasn't the game it was promised. As is, all of the purchases have been made PRIOR before then, NOT as you claim what the game "would've" been since no assessment has been made to that effect and therefore not an indicator it would sell 1% when most of the sales momentum behind it is based on hype.

Since both reviews and user feedback has been stomping his game non-stop, it would be safe to conclude the game would sell MORE not less in that scenario.

 

[Last Hearth]

The fact that threads like this exist destroys your argument entirely. Consider that this is a reactionary stance based on POST release - meaning - it was sold based on the product (it would have been). Consumers didn't have the full picture until much later when all the evidence has been mounting up that the game wasn't the game it was promised. As is, all of the purchases have been made PRIOR before then, NOT as you claim what the game "would've" been since no assessment has been made to that effect and therefore not an indicator it would sell 1% when most of the sales momentum behind it is based on hype.

Since both reviews and user feedback has been stomping his game non-stop, it would be safe to conclude the game would sell MORE not less in that scenario.

I don't think you understood my point, which is if they had told the truth about the game, their game would have garnered no hype and did little in sales.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

There was also a lot of interesting discussion about how the game would've worked a lot better as a "cartography simulator" than about just another survival sandbox game, where placing the emphasis a lot more on exploring and providing plenty of mechanics to facilitate or reward planet exploration, putting in mechanics that let you catalog your discoveries, mapping the area, etc., as opposed to simply "discovering" randomly placed instances of creatures/ruins/etc., naming them, and just going about your day..

This. NMS has a bit of an identity crisis - it wants to be an exploration game but almost discourages extensive exploration due to the slow walking speed and cost of resources when taking off. And why bother 'exploring' when the rewards on every planet are identical? It's the same crashed ships, outposts, landing platforms and orange beacon things.

It hints at things that other games do far better - combat, trading, space travel, dogfighting etc - but doesn't go all out with any of them.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

You guys should make a game sometime! Its completely normal to say "we want to do this, were planning to do this, this part is already working" and then not being able to deliver for a million reasons. Maybe the feature was too heavy on the performance, maybe you didnt have enough time, maybe making games is really hard.

Did Sean Murray sin for being too open with the community? Yes, he obviously did, this is why developers usually dont say shit to the fans, because this can happen. No game ever ships perfect, finished and with all the features it "promised" or planned to release with, it just doesnt happen.

Stop. Actually watch the interviews full of misleading and outright false statements and then return and defend this.

No offence dude, but this is like the second or third time I've seen you jump in when there is some controversy over a game and attempt to handwave it all away without even taking the time to read up the context of the discussion or even discussing the claims in detail.

We get it. Making games is hard, but it's disgenious to use that as an excuse to prop up some supposed developer infallibility.

Sometimes a developer just lied their ass off.

 

[Cave Johnson]

I don't think you understood my point, which is if they had told the truth about the game, their game would have garnered no hype and did little in sales.

Your statement reads:

NMS if sold as the product it is would have been indie title that garnered maybe 1% of its current sales.

I assumed you meant it as what the marketing have shown.

 

[Z3M0G]

The bounds of what is considered false advertising are extremely loose-- pretty much non-existent when it comes to games. People generally view any conflict there as being on the fault of the consumer, under the reasoning of "buyer beware."

Unfortunately you might have had better luck if you said the game ran horribly and was making your machine overheat :/

This game is a unique situation however... "false advertising" in games usually came down to graphics not matching up to original trailers, or frequent stability issues.

This game was sold to us by boasting features which are literally not in the game, and instead of formally announcing something before launch to warn us, they swept it all under the rug.

 

[The Cartographer]

Even though less than one per cent of players have raised support issues, we're going to resolve roughly 70% of them this week

Anything new about this?

What are they trying to ''fix''?

 

[soxinthebox]

How does the game compare to Elite Dangerous? I was hoping the Giantbomb guys would compare them on a podcast but it hasn't come up yet.

 

[eizarus]

I'm curious; is this the biggest con, misrepresentation, lie or whatever you wanna sugar coat it with, we've had in the gaming industry (within the past two generations at least)? We mock Molyneux, but Fable doesn't have near the number of missing features and let downs as what has been compiled on that Reddit list (I understand that there are a few mistakes on it).

Spoiler

I'm honestly disgusted by the people who are trying to defend it as if it's ok for things to have turned out like this. I don't care if you like the game or not, the facts are we were lied to rather explicitly till the very end and got a sock when we ordered a shoe.

 

[Cob32]

I'm curious; is this the biggest con, misrepresentation, lie or whatever you wanna sugar coat it with, we've had in the gaming industry (within the past two generations at least)? We mock Molyneux, but Fable has nowhere near the number of missing features and let downs as what has been compiled on that Reddit list (I understand that there are a few mistakes on it).

Spoiler

I'm honestly disgusted by the people who are trying to defend it as if it's ok for things to have turned out like this. I don't care if you like the game or not, the facts are we were lied to rather explicitly till the very end and got a sock when we ordered a shoe.

Not too sure about the biggest ever but I think this is one that has certainly 'hurt' the most.

 

[Pepboy]

The fact that threads like this exist destroys your argument entirely. Consider that this is a reactionary stance based on POST release - meaning - it was sold based on the product (it would have been). Consumers didn't have the full picture until much later when all the evidence has been mounting up that the game wasn't the game it was promised. As is, all of the purchases have been made PRIOR before then, NOT as you claim what the game "would've" been since no assessment has been made to that effect and therefore not an indicator it would sell 1% when most of the sales momentum behind it is based on hype.

Since both reviews and user feedback has been stomping his game non-stop, it would be safe to conclude the game would sell MORE not less in that scenario.

What? This literally makes no sense.

This thread is a reaction to the dev lying about the game... So you think if he had told the truth about it being mediocre it would sell even more copies? How many mediocre games marketed as mediocre go on to sell millions?

 

[Caipirinha]

I'm glad the defence force have surrendered, at the end of that day this is about the gaming industry. Each game that over-promises like this, the further we get from any developer even attempting to deliver on them in the future and the further we get from these big leaps in gaming we have all be waiting for.

Who knows what the politics was behind the scenes that led to this, if it was a Molyneux ego trip shitshow or if it was an honest team being elevated above their means by Sony, but it's absolutely right to be critical so that this happens less and less in the future.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

This is why I don't really follow the development of any games. With No Man's Sky, a guy at work told me about it and enthused about how you could fly from planet to planet without loading, and I was very interested. I researched the game, understood the concept and then hardly looked at it again. Then it launches and mind=blown (in a good way.)

 

[OuterLimits]

Anything new about this?

What are they trying to ''fix''?

Well, hopefully the crashes. I have never had a game freeze up my console like this one has. Probably over 20 times in 40 hours. Plus the game has some other more rare serious bugs like the game not saving anymore, or blueprint bugs. For example if the player gets a bug on a warp hyperdrive upgrade blueprint, they are essentially screwed.

My experience with the game reminds me of Fallout 3 or Skyrim. The longer I play, the more unstable the game is becoming. I haven't gotten the save glitch yet, but I have gotten glitches on some blueprints upgrades, but fortunately not critical ones.

The game has many other bugs that are annoying but not game breaking. I constantly get the bug that instead of my spaceship taking off and just hovering above the ground, it launches the ship into space and it spins around for several seconds. Then you have to land on the planet again. Earlier in the game it rarely happened, now happening to me 50% of the time.


I agree with earlier posts saying the amount of buildings on each planet is ridiculous. Even just exploring a very small part of the planet will have you finding a ton of structures.(and they look the same). Every planet and moon has them.

Early on I was eagerly visiting each planet. Now I'm skipping most planets and just warping. I started 173,000 light years from the center, and I think I have only gone 5,000-10,000 light years towards the center.

Sean said most would reach the center in 40-100 hours. Yeah, not happening for me. He also said most would put down the controller when they reach the center of the starter galaxy, but you can continue to play. I imagine most are going to quit well before the center either from boredom or a game breaking bug. I may be included in that.

 

[mcz117chief]

I'm curious; is this the biggest con, misrepresentation, lie or whatever you wanna sugar coat it with, we've had in the gaming industry (within the past two generations at least)? We mock Molyneux, but Fable doesn't have near the number of missing features and let downs as what has been compiled on that Reddit list (I understand that there are a few mistakes on it).

Spoiler

I'm honestly disgusted by the people who are trying to defend it as if it's ok for things to have turned out like this. I don't care if you like the game or not, the facts are we were lied to rather explicitly till the very end and got a sock when we ordered a shoe.

I was thinking about this too and imo not Spore or Aliens Colonial Marines comes close. Spore imo might be the closest. There might be other games but I can't recall any other such major con.

 

[Caipirinha]

What are the chances of a class action against Hello Games?

Some of this stuff is just beyond belief, I mean fundamental aspects of the game explicitly promised and not present. The fact that the multiplayer icon was pasted over on some of the boxes at the last minute says a lot - something happened here and they stripped the game of a lot of what people bought it for, but didn't tell them that had changed.

More than actually successfully suing them I just want other developers to know that you can't get away with this shit, and for HG to come clean about what happened. People paid $60, they deserve that, and if it takes the threat of legal action to get it then so be it.

 

[mabec]

What are the chances of a class action against Hello Games?

Some of this stuff is just beyond belief, I mean fundamental aspects of the game explicitly promised and not present. The fact that the multiplayer icon was pasted over on some of the boxes at the last minute says a lot - something happened here and they stripped the game of a lot of what people bought it for, but didn't tell them that had changed.

More than actually successfully suing them I just want other developers to know that you can't get away with this shit, and for HG to come clean about what happened. People paid $60, they deserve that, and if it takes the threat of legal action to get it then so be it.

Some people paid more and still dont want to sue, but i guess all it takes is one crazy (and rich) enough to go thru with it. I do hope they come forward soon and explain what the hell happen, did they cut content because they couldn't get the multiplayer aspect to work on PS4 without PS+ etc etc

 

[Cave Johnson]

What? This literally makes no sense.

This thread is a reaction to the dev lying about the game... So you think if he had told the truth about it being mediocre it would sell even more copies? How many mediocre games marketed as mediocre go on to sell millions?

Read post #2563

 

[TeddyShardik]

Some people paid more and still dont want to sue, but i guess all it takes is one crazy (and rich) enough to go thru with it. I do hope they come forward soon and explain what the hell happen, did they cut content because they couldn't get the multiplayer aspect to work on PS4 without PS+ etc etc

If they do I would also like an explaination on why at least the bigger features being cut wasn't communicated before launch. Or why some of them seem to have never existed in the first place.

I'll even hold a bucket under them for all the sweating.

 

[sazzy]

To be fair about some of that stuff, Hello Games always said that gravity would basically be the same everywhere. The excuse was that the exosuit would compensate for it, and that they just didn't want players to deal with varying levels of gravity. They also never denied NPCs would be on every planet. Lastly, even in Elite Dangerous the hyperdrive screen is basically a loading screen. Space Engine is the only game I'm aware of where all the stars and galaxies really do share the same physical space at the same time.

I mentioned the point about gravity because its personally irritating to me to have such an issue in a game about space exploration.

But I think it ignores the bigger issue here: HG didn't just throw out gravity because it would be too complicated; for gravity to happen in a meaningful way in this game, they would've had to model a universe, and there is no coherent model of the universe in this game.

There is no planet with the physical large scale properties of a planet in this game. There is no star system in this game with the physical large scale properties of star systems in this game.

The land masses are planets inasmuch as the planetoids in Super Mario Galaxy are planets, blown up in size.

I've always though NMS was a con but this....


I normally laugh at gamers who file lawsuits over games but this would be a exception.

I'm just glad I got my refund.

Your post is the perfect illustration of why they did what they did.
NMS if sold as the product it is would have been indie title that garnered maybe 1% of its current sales.

They purposely lied when they realized that with the hype they could make enough money for their entire team to retire.

Buyer beware. Always.

 

[Jobbs]

You guys should make a game sometime! Its completely normal to say "we want to do this, were planning to do this, this part is already working" and then not being able to deliver for a million reasons. Maybe the feature was too heavy on the performance, maybe you didnt have enough time, maybe making games is really hard.

Did Sean Murray sin for being too open with the community? Yes, he obviously did, this is why developers usually dont say shit to the fans, because this can happen. No game ever ships perfect, finished and with all the features it "promised" or planned to release with, it just doesnt happen.

I am making a game. In my case the game is kind of like Super Metroid and Dark Souls -- if the two had a baby.

I assure you the stuff I've mentioned being in the game is in the game. If I was Sean Murray I'd just make up a ton of over the top shit that isn't in the game to get you excited. Hell, I could even tell you about features that my game could plausibly have like asynchronous multiplayer - but I won't because I have a shame gene. I can't tell you my game even has something vanilla like asynchronous mp because it simply isnt true. I care about what is true. Sean Murray is lacking some standard parts that a lot of us have surrounding honesty and shame.

Please don't lump all devs in with this character.

 

[Chichikov]

How does the game compare to Elite Dangerous? I was hoping the Giantbomb guys would compare them on a podcast but it hasn't come up yet.

The similarities are mostly on the surface level.
Elite is first a foremost a spaceship "sim", it's mostly about flying though space, you can land on planets now, as part of an expansion pack, but it's pretty bare bones.
The flight model, ship control, dogfighting, trading etc. are miles ahead of No Man's Sky, it's not even in the same league.
It also have a very strong multiplayer component to it.

 

[eizarus]

Your post is the perfect illustration of why they did what they did.
NMS if sold as the product it is would have been indie title that garnered maybe 1% of its current sales.

They purposely lied when they realized that with the hype they could make enough money for their entire team to retire.

Imagine the shitstorm if they announced in a years time that they'll continue to provide support for the game but are retiring 😁

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Imagine you've worked insanely hard creating an amazing game. One unlike any other, what could literally be the next Minecraft. Of course in interviews you'd be enthusiastic about the possibilities of the game, be it at launch or down the road a bit.

The PS4 has a lot of limitations, but the PC version has only just launched. Mods will fix some problems, patches will fix others. The base game is still incredible. Maybe your expectations were higher than mine, but to me what was advertised is for the most part what I'm getting.

Compare this release to the first Alpha release of Minecraft. A huge patch, expansion pack or sequel that builds on this is gonna be amazing. A mod could flip on multiplayer tomorrow and you've got the best MMO ever made.

Minecraft Alpha cost ~14$ and every update since has been free.

I'm not sure on this but IIRC No Man's Sky on PC is a straight PS4 port.

 

[v1oz]

In NMS, the star systems are basically disjointed levels or stages.

The pretty hyperdrive screen is a loading screen.

The planet landing sequence is a loading screen. Try landing with the graphics set to a lower res and see how quickly you can land.

The 18 quintillion planets is bullshit. They don't exist until you load a level and the game probably picks out one of 16^16 permutations.

Space is apparently full of fuel rich asteroids.

Oh and the sky is perpetually lit up with some unknown source of light, even when you're flying through empty space with no atmosphere.

All land masses have the same gravity. Even the space ports.

Every land mass has been visited by another alien race before you. They've built their facilities on it. But for some reason you get to be the special snowflake who gets to name that planet.

The developers created the game around a gimmick. Its not even a technical marvel like many think it is, once you realize that all the land masses are simply giant stationary floating set pieces.

This is a mediocre game, and an utter garbage space exploration game.

This post should be added to the OP.

It's amazing how the media and the press have failed to pick up on these lies. The British press especially have been too complicit ,BBC and Eurogamer have been singing this game's praises everyday since launch.

No they didn't. Sean said they are using lots of known techniques all in one game that he thought hadn't been done before. He did say they had a new technique for all assets to be created individually but understanding what other assets are around them, which he thought was "quite smart".

Man, some people really thought there was going to be a universe on a disc that could fool astronauts.

Just read LastCupOfSorrow's post. He nailed it!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Raging? No.

Fed up? Absolutely.

This hits me from two sides.

As a consumer:
More and more developers and publishers are writing checks they can't cash in an effort to sell a product to me. Everyone has been burned a lot more than they should in the last decade of gaming from bullshit PR speak. From bullshit pie in the sky promises.

Games should never be about selling INTENTIONS or PROMISES - they are about selling a PRODUCT. "See that mountain?" Or "if you can see it, you can get to it" or "it just works", etc.

The PR, the developer, the publisher is the one who sets the expectation for everyone to follow. They lead the charge. That's fine when you set the expectation but when it gets out of hand and you fucking know it - you stop feeding it. You don't throw more fuel on the fire. You don't give extra ammo that can be used against you because you want to ride a wave of hype to sell a game.

Intentions aren't what should be sold. "Maybe they will patch it in" is a sad consumer excuse in an attempt to justify wasting your money. It defends shady sales tactics by devs/pubs. The more it is done, the more it will happen.

This seems like its happening with greater frequency than ever from major studios. This is why I stopped preordering, waiting until concerns have been aired after release.

Day 1 review embargoes?

NDAs on reviews that purposefully tell the media to NOT talk about specific game features or mechanics?

Buddy-buddy system between the media and the industry? Swag bag bullshit at events?

All of that shit makes me question the legitimacy of any claim from a studio. I've been had a few times but no more as a consumer. People are getting tired of being sold PROMISES and not PRODUCTS.

As a developer:
This stings me like a fissure in my ass. I haven't been here long but I've gathered a lot of experience from outside my team. I learn from myself but fuck yes I'm learning from others. I watch, I listen, I see how things are done, I hear stories about certain devs, good things, bad things, shortcuts, empty promises, etc.

It's like any other business, to a point, but this hits home when it's also your hobby.

There are unwritten rules to any industry. Some devs break them. Some devs do it egregiously.

Some only want to make a quick buck and not give a fuck about how many houses they burn down in the process, including their own. Some do it to troll. Most are here for the same reason, the love of the game.

Every time someone does something shitty we hang our heads. Sometimes we laugh it off, but other times it makes our jobs harder. Because the hill we are all climbing just got taller.

Many of us want a good working relationship with the consumer. I do and every time some dev does something shady, lies, promises nothing more than promises - it makes our jobs harder because it casts more doubt on the industry.

I hate it. I hate that the PR side has to be run like an "attract" scenario. What ever happened to just saying what is?

I see a huge problem with games reaching limits and content being consumed faster than it can be created. So devs turn to sales pitches to promote products rather than selling the product for what it is. Might not be new and shiny, might not be ground breaking, but it should be truthful.

You know when you are being bullshitted when every interview you watch, the function of your game fits the narrative of the interview. Games change. Games change often. Thats not the issue. The issue is when you only change your game when it comes to PR speak to fit the tone, the excitement of the moment. There is no way in hell as a dev your game can fit so many different scenarios at the same time. There is no way in hell you can answer "YES" to almost every question in every interview about a single feature every time the narrative changes. That's a red flag. That's an easy pitfall for a dev. To sell a promise, not a product.

As both a consumer and a dev, I don't want to be lied to. I don't want to lie to anyone. I don't want the industry to continue down the path of promises. I don't want the industry to hide behind day 1 review embargoes. I don't want the industry to dictate where it is going and fuck everyone else. The consumer, me, I, you, everyone dictates where it goes. As a dev we need to adapt to it through execution, not intentions.

We need to sell what is, not what YOU WANT TO HEAR. We need to buy what is, NOT WHAT SOME PR BULLSHIT SAYS.

Fuck this environment where any one of my peers thinks it's OK to feed the hype machine and deal with the fallout later. That's not good business and as a consumer, fuck you a second time.

The hill for devs gets bigger as the trust by the consumer gets smaller. That's not where we need to be no matter what side of the curtain you are on.

Raging? No.

Fed up? That's goddamn right.

Bravo to this man for showing some integrity.

 

[Avatar1]

I don't think you understood my point, which is if they had told the truth about the game, their game would have garnered no hype and did little in sales.

I think you're wrong. The hype would have been there I think.

This game is an incredible achievement. If this game was put together by Sony Japan proper it may still get knocked by some for the gameplay being more about exploration and resource management than action but it would still be respected for the tech.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

I think you're wrong. The hype would have been there I think.

This game is an incredible achievement. If this game was put together by Sony Japan proper it may still get knocked by some for the gameplay being more about exploration and resource management than action but it would still be respected for the tech.

What tech do you think is so good in this game?

 

[Jobbs]

What tech do you think is so good in this game?

It's kinda neat how they made randomly generated planets look pretty cool.. but there's really no massive breakthrough IMO and the game is just plain bad.

 

[mike6467]

They clearly cashed in on Sony's goodwill. I would've done the same, but without that advertising, NMS is another early access game on Steam. Sean should be counting his blessings.

 

[Jobbs]

They clearly cashed in on Sony's goodwill. I would've done the same, but without that advertising, NMS is another early access game on Steam. Sean should be counting his blessings.

you would have done the same? you mean consistently lie and deliberately misrepresent what your game is with a smile on every platform including network television?

I simply couldn't do it. I don't think I could even if the zeroes on the check were many.

 

[Last Hearth]

you would have done the same? you mean consistently lie and deliberately misrepresent what your game is with a smile on every platform including network television?

I simply couldn't do it. I don't think I could even if the zeroes on the check were many.

Are you sure?

Let's conservatively estimate they sold 2 million copies, at $60 a pop that is $120 million. Let's be generous and say 50% of that goes to the distributors and retailers, that's still $60 million dollars going to a group of 15 people, which averages out to $4 million a person, and I'm sure Sean Murray is getting a bigger than average cut.
He'll probably pocket $10 to $20 million. That's an awful lot of zeroes to turn down.

 

[Jobbs]

Are you sure?

Let's conservatively estimate they sold 2 million copies, at $60 a pop that is $120 million. Let's be generous and say 50% of that goes to the distributors and retailers, that's still $60 million dollars going to a group of 15 people, which averages out to $4 million a person, and I'm sure Sean Murray is getting a bigger than average cut.
He'll probably pocket $10 to $20 million. That's an awful lot of zeroes to turn down.

I just don't know. What good is $10 million if no one will trust me again... it's a really hard call

although people probably will trust him again. pretty sure moly went through several big lie cycles before his reputation was thoroughly ruined

 

[LastCupOfSorrow]

Are you sure?

Let's conservatively estimate they sold 2 million copies, at $60 a pop that is $120 million. Let's be generous and say 50% of that goes to the distributors and retailers, that's still $60 million dollars going to a group of 15 people, which averages out to $4 million a person, and I'm sure Sean Murray is getting a bigger than average cut.
He'll probably pocket $10 to $20 million. That's an awful lot of zeroes to turn down.

For sure, millions of pounds speak volumes when you have nothing but "ideas."

 

[UserDoesNotExist]

I mentioned the point about gravity because its personally irritating to me to have such an issue in a game about space exploration.

But I think it ignores the bigger issue here: HG didn't just throw out gravity because it would be too complicated; for gravity to happen in a meaningful way in this game, they would've had to model a universe, and there is no coherent model of the universe in this game.

There is no planet with the physical large scale properties of a planet in this game. There is no star system in this game with the physical large scale properties of star systems in this game.

This is what f****** infuriates me as a computational physicist. They were so up their own asses in interviews about their physical models ("We had to redesign the entire periodic table to make the sky different colors!", try telling that to a computational spectroscopist,) and then their "space" game has no stars, gravity is a uniform constant, and planets have wildly unrealistic day/night cycles.

This is not a space exploration game, and that they are still marketing it as such is a boldfaced lie that they need to be called out on. They created a procedural algorithm to make collections of Earth-like planets embedded in a zero-G environment. That's it.

 

[RankFTW]

I just don't know. What good is $10 million if no one will trust me again... it's a really hard call

although people probably will trust him again. pretty sure moly went through several big lie cycles before his reputation was thoroughly ruined

Who cares if random people on the internet don't trust you when you have 20 million in the bank.

 

[Jobbs]

Who cares if random people on the internet don't trust you when you have 20 million in the bank.

because if my first game is a success I want to make more games, and it's hard to sell new games when your reputation is trashed

you could survive a mediocre game, surviving being a liar is a bit harder

 

[mike6467]

you would have done the same? you mean consistently lie and deliberately misrepresent what your game is with a smile on every platform including network television?

I simply couldn't do it. I don't think I could even if the zeroes on the check were many.

I really doubt this was a clear moral choice that he made consciously. I'm guessing Sean just ended up in way over his head and doubled down. I'm not defending it at all, but I don't think things are strictly black and white (pun intended )

 

[Lanrutcon]

Raging? No.

Fed up? Absolutely.

This hits me from two sides.

As a consumer:
More and more developers and publishers are writing checks they can't cash in an effort to sell a product to me. Everyone has been burned a lot more than they should in the last decade of gaming from bullshit PR speak. From bullshit pie in the sky promises.

Games should never be about selling INTENTIONS or PROMISES - they are about selling a PRODUCT. "See that mountain?" Or "if you can see it, you can get to it" or "it just works", etc.

The PR, the developer, the publisher is the one who sets the expectation for everyone to follow. They lead the charge. That's fine when you set the expectation but when it gets out of hand and you fucking know it - you stop feeding it. You don't throw more fuel on the fire. You don't give extra ammo that can be used against you because you want to ride a wave of hype to sell a game.

Intentions aren't what should be sold. "Maybe they will patch it in" is a sad consumer excuse in an attempt to justify wasting your money. It defends shady sales tactics by devs/pubs. The more it is done, the more it will happen.

This seems like its happening with greater frequency than ever from major studios. This is why I stopped preordering, waiting until concerns have been aired after release.

Day 1 review embargoes?

NDAs on reviews that purposefully tell the media to NOT talk about specific game features or mechanics?

Buddy-buddy system between the media and the industry? Swag bag bullshit at events?

All of that shit makes me question the legitimacy of any claim from a studio. I've been had a few times but no more as a consumer. People are getting tired of being sold PROMISES and not PRODUCTS.

As a developer:
This stings me like a fissure in my ass. I haven't been here long but I've gathered a lot of experience from outside my team. I learn from myself but fuck yes I'm learning from others. I watch, I listen, I see how things are done, I hear stories about certain devs, good things, bad things, shortcuts, empty promises, etc.

It's like any other business, to a point, but this hits home when it's also your hobby.

There are unwritten rules to any industry. Some devs break them. Some devs do it egregiously.

Some only want to make a quick buck and not give a fuck about how many houses they burn down in the process, including their own. Some do it to troll. Most are here for the same reason, the love of the game.

Every time someone does something shitty we hang our heads. Sometimes we laugh it off, but other times it makes our jobs harder. Because the hill we are all climbing just got taller.

Many of us want a good working relationship with the consumer. I do and every time some dev does something shady, lies, promises nothing more than promises - it makes our jobs harder because it casts more doubt on the industry.

I hate it. I hate that the PR side has to be run like an "attract" scenario. What ever happened to just saying what is?

I see a huge problem with games reaching limits and content being consumed faster than it can be created. So devs turn to sales pitches to promote products rather than selling the product for what it is. Might not be new and shiny, might not be ground breaking, but it should be truthful.

You know when you are being bullshitted when every interview you watch, the function of your game fits the narrative of the interview. Games change. Games change often. Thats not the issue. The issue is when you only change your game when it comes to PR speak to fit the tone, the excitement of the moment. There is no way in hell as a dev your game can fit so many different scenarios at the same time. There is no way in hell you can answer "YES" to almost every question in every interview about a single feature every time the narrative changes. That's a red flag. That's an easy pitfall for a dev. To sell a promise, not a product.

As both a consumer and a dev, I don't want to be lied to. I don't want to lie to anyone. I don't want the industry to continue down the path of promises. I don't want the industry to hide behind day 1 review embargoes. I don't want the industry to dictate where it is going and fuck everyone else. The consumer, me, I, you, everyone dictates where it goes. As a dev we need to adapt to it through execution, not intentions.

We need to sell what is, not what YOU WANT TO HEAR. We need to buy what is, NOT WHAT SOME PR BULLSHIT SAYS.

Fuck this environment where any one of my peers thinks it's OK to feed the hype machine and deal with the fallout later. That's not good business and as a consumer, fuck you a second time.

The hill for devs gets bigger as the trust by the consumer gets smaller. That's not where we need to be no matter what side of the curtain you are on.

Raging? No.

Fed up? That's goddamn right.

Probably the best post in the entire thread.

 

[Jobbs]

I was calling this guy Moly from the start and usually shouted down.

ex 1

ex 2

ex 3

just saying.

 

[Avatar1]

because if my first game is a success I want to make more games, and it's hard to sell new games when your reputation is trashed

you could survive a mediocre game, surviving being a liar is a bit harder

Reputation "trashed" for about the 100 or so people in these threads.

Don't over estimate neogaf representing the real world.

Edit: the above refers to the so called controversy. There are plenty more who don't like it for other reasons, as in ANY game.

 

[Septimius]

It's kinda neat how they made randomly generated planets look pretty cool.. but there's really no massive breakthrough IMO and the game is just plain bad.

They have a solid tech baseline, but they built too little ontop of it. This whole "persistent procedurally generated universe" is gimmicky. Imagine Minecraft with a "huge, persistent, procedurally generated, and all players start in their own part of it", and combine that with no multiplayer. Why not just have a procedurally generated universe? Then you can have some sort of progression where difficulty and discoveries ramp up and build to something. Or make it more tier based with more warp drive upgrades that unlock progressively harder universes but with better discoveries, or just something outside this flat universe

 

[Jobbs]

Reputation "trashed" for about the 100 or so people in these threads.

Don't over estimate neogaf representing the real world.

Edit: the above refers to the so called controversy. There are plenty more who don't like it for other reasons, as in ANY game.

If Sean Murray goes out and pitchamns another game in the future, you can bet this will follow him around comments sections and internet threads everywhere. You can't say this means nothing. People will be (rightly) skeptical of him next time -- Period. Skeptical or outright dismissive.