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SAG-AFTRA Video Game Voice Actors Authorize Strike (they're not striking yet)

Nachos

Member
The main issue being if they can continue working on non-SAG licensed games.
Ficore members can, full union members can't without major repercussions.

I've always been curious about this side of the business. We know there are plenty of non-union gigs and predominantly non-union actors. Are they all ficore? And given SAG-AFTRA's stance towards ficore (which I assume, but do not know for sure, is a stance common to most unions), doesn't this lead to prejudicial hiring down the road even for ficore actors?

I ask because there seem to be a few well-known actors who split between non-union and union work--Laura Bailey is the most obvious example I can think of--and I always wonder how that works.
Yeah, pretty much all of the popular Atlus actors are ficore – Bailey, Yuri Lowenthal, Matt Mercer, Erin Fitzgerald, etc. And yes, it absolutely does lead to discrimination when it comes to casting for union games at times, though nonunion games should be unaffected. At that point, you're basically relying on reputation to help ease the friction.
 
I wish them all the best and hopefully a strike doesn't actually happen. Last time SAG went on strike for a brief stint , game companies just got all their stuff dubbed outside of the US by actors in other unions or even non-union actors.

Reading into this whole debacle , it's easy to get clouded judgement because everyone wants more money here but the rest of the points presented by SAG-AFTRA are all valid I think. Not to say they don't deserve a better paycheque if a videogame is very successful but that shouldn't be a guarantee , it should be worked out the same way residual cheques happen in radio/commercial/tv/movies. It should also be based on profitability of the product itself rather than just sales success. Not every game that sells 2 million units is actually profitable. But having a stunt co-ordinator or safety consultant on set when doing extensive motion capture work to avoid injury ? that doesn't sound so bad. An actor having the chance to see a general synopsis of the product in question so they know if they object for moral or other reasons to the work ? That sounds reasonable. Also, the point about "vocally stressful" recording sessions (IE- screaming into the mic pretending to be injured)being limited to 2 hours instead of 4 sounds acceptable. Voice actors aren't just working on your game after all and screaming for 4 hours is basically the equivalent of going to a rock concert so they need to either limit the session or extend an offer of hazard pay. Likewise, the suggestions by game publishers are pretty absurd - fining an actor 50% of their pay (at the publishers discretion) for being inattentive or failing to preform adequately(again, in the eyes of the publisher) shouldn't be a thing. If you don't like a voice over actor, find out about that during the audition phase , not while in the booth. You've already agreed to a contract to pay this person, you shouldn't have the ability to not pay them if their performance failed to live up to the expectations you had during an audition. As well, the idea that a game publisher thinks they have a right to black list a casting agency if they don't forward all potential work to all of their clients is absolutely absurd.

So basically, if the big name game publishers rescind all of their idiotic offers and give in to the demands of everything outside of the pay increase , well I think that's basically just treating professional acting in a video game the same as it is almost everywhere else. That's a good thing.

Even the residual based payment is something that could be smoothed over. Give an actor a choice - take scale pay for the work in question (whatever that happens to be worth) and get a 1 time lump sum bonus upon the shipment of the finished game based on total number of lines recorded/characters used in the final product and pre-order totals OR get the same scale pay with no lump sum bonus but a residual amount per copy sold based on how much of the game relies upon your performance. For example - if you're Nolan North and the game is Uncharted - and perhaps there are 1.5 million pre-orders you get to choose between a 1 time 15,000$ payment (based on 2 hours of utilized performance capture, facial capture and a 300 page script with 900 lines of recorded dialog and 200 quips , 100 reaction noises) OR you can opt in to a quarterly residual payment where for the lifetime(where lifetime is deemed a period not exceeding 60 months) of that version of the product every physical or digital copy sold earns you a tiny amount of money. In this scenario , I think it would be fair that the lump sum payment is worth 2-3 times as much per copy as the residuals. But for certain games the residual payment might give someone a steady source of income for a longer period of time. Take 15,000$ up front for 1.5 million pre-orders in a game you did a lot for as an actor (1 cent per copy pre-sold) OR 1 cent for every 3 copies sold in residuals. So the first 3 months , maybe 2.5 million copies sell - great you get an 8000$ residual cheque in the mail. The next 3 months only 500,000 copies sell, hey that's still 2000$. 3 more months go by and 100,000 copies sell, okay so you get a 300$ cheque. Draw this out over 4 more years and 3 months , a total of 17 cheques that might amount to another 1000$. Obviously this scenario of mine is hypothetical but I don't see residuals being very high per copy sold even if actors do get them and in most cases, unlike tv/movies - there isn't as much of a market after a couple years so simply paying them more money in the first place would probably be a better option. I also think that voice over work that's simply just the recording with no mo-cap or facial capture isn't worth as much money and might not even be eligible for a deal like this.

Really, the only game where residual payments might give you a decent bit of money is something like grand theft auto 5. 50 million copies sold, let's say you've got yourself even just 1 cent per copy sold from 2013 through to 2018 on all platforms- that's 500,000$ extra money! , even if it was just a third of a cent per copy sold you'd still have around 150K extra but how many games sell like GTA ? None. It's really not worth fighting for a big industry standard like residuals when only 1 game every 5 years will give an actor any kind of real money for it. And at that, only if they were a main character.

For those wondering- residuals work great for TV, especially when something hits syndication because you then get paid anytime your performance is witnessed anywhere on tv. I once heard a story about the voice actress for Wilma Flinstone , every other cast member on that show set up a residual agreement but she took a lump sum payment to sign those rights away. A few years after the show finished airing , it was massively syndicated which meant that all the voice actors kept getting a steady stream of income from the show but she got nothing. It's a gamble though because these kinds of contracts are usually set up very early on , if the show in question doesn't make syndication ? well it probably won't be seen after it's initial run but that's the gamble- a choice that an actor is afforded. So really with games , it's currently a choice they don't have so I suppose at least offering something would be better than nothing if only to say "hey here's what you could get IF the game is hugely successful".

I pretty much agree with this, it sounds super reasonable to both sides.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Right now I'm just glad that Persona 5 got delayed. That game does not need to go through localization during this business.

But... it is going through localization during this business. If it weren't delayed, it would not have been in localization during this business since the voice acting would have already been finished, or real close to it, by now.
 
Good. Collective bargaining should be more common in America. This trend since Reagan killed the air traffic controllers union of busting unions has been horrible for workers.
 

Dachande

Member
Good. Maybe this will encourage studio developers to unionise at some point to get more benefits and collective bargaining power. God knows we need to.
 

Hsieh

Member
I'll be curious to see how this industry intends to slowly replace them all with "reality TV contestants."

Guest streamers doing voicework for the online PVP games of the future, is my first guess.

The English dub of Dragon Ball Z did it. The first two seasons of Dragon Ball Z in English had union voice actors. During the season break between season three, all of the voice actors were replaced by non-union voice actors. Funimation even went back an redubbed the first two seasons with the non-union voice actors. Audiences complained about the non-union voice actors at first, but they eventually adjusted. A considerable number of fans prefer the version of Dragon Ball Z with non-union voice actors.
 
The English dub of Dragon Ball Z did it. The first two seasons of Dragon Ball Z in English had union voice actors. During the season break between season three, all of the voice actors were replaced by non-union voice actors. Funimation even went back an redubbed the first two seasons with the non-union voice actors. Audiences complained about the non-union voice actors at first, but they eventually adjusted. A considerable number of fans prefer the version of Dragon Ball Z with non-union voice actors.
Is the non-union work the version with Sean Schemmel as Goku?
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
The English dub of Dragon Ball Z did it. The first two seasons of Dragon Ball Z in English had union voice actors. During the season break between season three, all of the voice actors were replaced by non-union voice actors. Funimation even went back an redubbed the first two seasons with the non-union voice actors. Audiences complained about the non-union voice actors at first, but they eventually adjusted. A considerable number of fans prefer the version of Dragon Ball Z with non-union voice actors.

Interesting, I could definitely see some existing story-based franchises recast parts.

But to my reference: Reality TV came on strong as a response to collective bargaining pressure from actors and writers. The television industry itself directed its own production to more reality TV efforts, cutting out those expenses.

I can see this trend mirrored and continued in gaming, it will continue to move away from story-based narrative experiences and into eSports and MOBAs--the Reality TV of Games.
 
I'm surprised at the final result being that high, but then again maybe I shouldn't be. Either way, I wish them the best of luck on this.
 

Faustek

Member
My guess is any SAG VAs they have will stop working on their projects. And if the outcome of this strike means that they can no longer hire SAG VAs alongside their non-SAG VAs, that could pose a problem. Not a huge one but still a problem.

From what I remember, the union isn't demanding a blanket increase in wages, but a variable increase based on the success of the game. So indies would not have to pay out as much because the voice actor's union appreciates that they don't have as much money to spend. The exception is for things that might be detrimental to the workers' health, things like that.

There's something in place to provide against that. The residuals would only kick in after a game earns 2 million sales, and moreover, this is all dependent upon the games actually using union actors, which would probably be out of their budgets, just for the initial payment. Unless you're crazy like Feep, an indie dev is more likely to cast through places like the Voice Acting Alliance or even through Tumblr, with the entirety of an actor's pay usually ranging from nothing to ~$200, tops.


Thanks :)
Yeah royalties are a ok. Was worried if they where hunting for "union" wages.
Ps. I'm an old Swede. I love Unions, to bad many of them suck ass. Litteraly, since they have no teeth they can't bite so all that's left is sucking.
 

Moonlight

Banned
Maybe this will allow developers to hire young blood that wants to give all they have for a chance being part of a game.

Not paying someone thousands for a half-assed performance for a few days worth of work.
Yeah, man. Getting to work on a game is a privilege and they should be happy to work on one at all.

hope things work out for them
 
Ficore members can, full union members can't without major repercussions.


Yeah, pretty much all of the popular Atlus actors are ficore – Bailey, Yuri Lowenthal, Matt Mercer, Erin Fitzgerald, etc. And yes, it absolutely does lead to discrimination when it comes to casting for union games at times, though nonunion games should be unaffected. At that point, you're basically relying on reputation to help ease the friction.

What the hell? That's not fair at all to ficore VAs. They can't work along side SAG VAs in the new agreement right?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Interesting, I could definitely see some existing story-based franchises recast parts.

But to my reference: Reality TV came on strong as a response to collective bargaining pressure from actors and writers. The television industry itself directed its own production to more reality TV efforts, cutting out those expenses.

I can see this trend mirrored and continued in gaming, it will continue to move away from story-based narrative experiences and into eSports and MOBAs--the Reality TV of Games.

Nah, it just incentivizes using "name" talent as opposed to quality performers. Great for the Kiefer Sutherlands, not so good for the Troy Baker's because the marquee value to some extent justifies and ameliorates the back-end cost.

It also makes non-union performers far more attractive and cost effective, so more work in London and less in California.

Really can't see this helping the actor's cause at all.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Good.

Good luck to them.

Edit: I wonder if this will affect Uncharted 4. All of Norths lines gotta be done by now I think.
They're not on strike. They just authorized going on strike and are going to try to utilize that as a bartering chip.

There's basically no incentive for anyone in their guild to vote against this given it didn't mean stopping work and there are right to work states where the ruling wouldn't prevent them from working anyway.
 

UberTag

Member
Not getting worked up about this until they do something more than authorize the potential of a strike action. Many of their demands are reasonable but the publishers ARE heinous super-villains and, frankly, hold all of the leverage. They're incapable of being reasonable. VAs will get nothing from striking and we'll suffer as gamers with some half-assed localizations that will still sell like hotcakes because consumers are inherently stupid.
 
Maybe this will be the first step towards the death of BioWare's dialogue wheel and a return to non voiced protagonists!
Of course that won't happen.
 
There's basically no incentive for anyone in their guild to vote against this given it didn't mean stopping work and there are right to work states where the ruling wouldn't prevent them from working anyway.

That sounds like a trap.

Maybe this will be the first step towards the death of BioWare's dialogue wheel and a return to non voiced protagonists!
Of course that won't happen.

You guys want me to die of blood loss from banging my head on my desk, don't you? You guys do realize that the publishers getting their way will be shitty for every single actor who ever works on a game in the future, right? And not just actors. The agents. You do realize this will allow publishers free reign to bleed these people dry financially, right?

But who cares. The real victim here is the player.
 
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...ce-actors-overwhelmingly-approve-strike-vote/
Members of the SAG-AFTRA union have overwhelmingly approved a measure authorizing an "interactive media" strike that could have wide-ranging impact on the availability of professional voice talent for video game projects. The union announced today that 96.52 percent of its members voted in favor of the strike. That's well above the 75 percent threshold that was necessary to authorize such a move and a result the union is calling "a resounding success."

Despite the vote, union members will not strike immediately. Instead, a strike can now be called whenever the union's National Board decides to declare it. Armed with that knowledge, SAG-AFTRA will be sending its negotiating committee back to talk with major game publishers, including EA, Activision, Disney, and Warner Bros., which are signatories to a current agreement with the union.

After their old agreement technically expired at the end of 2014, both sides have failed to reach a new understanding in negotiation sessions in February and June. SAG-AFTRA is looking for a number of concessions from the game industry, including "back end bonus" royalties for games that sell at least two million units, "stunt pay" for "vocally stressful" work, and more information to be provided about projects before time-consuming auditions are scheduled.
 

Hoje0308

Banned
Bonuses for games that do well doesn't seem unfair, but getting stunt pay to do every part of the job you were hired to do, no matter how stressful, sounds odd to me.
 

Kurosori

Banned
I hope Xenoblade Chronicles X won't be delayed (but they should be at the end of the localization... i hope).

And note that the voice actor for Adam Jensen (Deus Ex MD) will be in strike too :x
 
The back-end royalties thing really doesn't sit easy with me, especially when you know there are underpaid devs slaving away during 100 hour weeks who don't get bonuses. Meanwhile vo's show up for a few days' work and expect to get paid a point or two based on sales. Doesn't make sense.
 

marrec

Banned
I support this move. Hopefully it doesn't come down to an actual strike but if it does I'm with them there too.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
God I hope this doesn't mean Arc Rise Fantasia or Chaos Wars type voice acting. I'd rather have no voice in games.

But hopefully this will bring some new voices to the table and not the typical Troy Baker you hear in games.
 

foltzie1

Member
I do enjoy a good negotiation.

Can they get Brock Lesnar at the table for them? He seems to have a second career available to him as a negotiator.
 
I am ready to go back to the Playstation 1 days of terrible performances of bad translations. What an amazing time that was.

Here's hoping they can get a good settlement so they can be treated properly.
 
I hope they manage to hammer out a solid deal. Last I heard the pubs weren't even looking at SAG-AFTRA's proposals, maybe now they'll actually sit at the table. Some of what SAG is after is a little unreasonable, and some of what the pubs are after is definitely unreasonable, but I expect if they actually get to the table those things will get dismissed, discarded, or compromised on as they go along.

That said, if pubs still won't budge, fuck 'em. Strike.
 

Catdaddy

Member
Good luck to them, hope they get what they deserve.

That said if they do strike, maybe we’ll get Peter Dinklage voicing all roles for those games in development.
 
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