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Sen. Lindsey Graham: Trump Says War With North Korea an Option
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
Goldenroad
Member
I am way more frightened of the US having nuclear weapons that could strike North Korea than I am of North Korea having nuclear weapons that could strike the US. Donald Trump makes Kim Jong Un look like fucking Pope Francis. I do agree that that the global community needs to do something to remove that autocratic dictator from power for the well being of his own country's citizens and the entire planet, but I also think that something needs to be done about North Korea as well. Hopefully this can be resolved peacefully, but with Drumph at the wheel, I highly doubt it.
The lack of regard in this thread for the danger attacking North Korea would present to South Korea disturbs me. That's what I think of first. A lot of the discussion of how much of a threat NK presents to the US seems to be ignoring that South Korea has been dealing with this problem for over half a century. Not to mention the implications it has for a response from China.
If Cheetolini getting elected leads to the devastation of Seoul, I might just give up my worldly possessions and become a nun.
Americans who voted for 45 really did abandon any notions of responsibility in the larger world last election and it just breaks my heart.
Edit: I'm not condemning anyone in this thread specifically. I just want to make it clear that South Koreans would be the first to deal with the dire consequences of attacking North Korea, and I think that's a very important concern.
If Cheetolini getting elected leads to the devastation of Seoul, I might just give up my worldly possessions and become a nun.
Americans who voted for 45 really did abandon any notions of responsibility in the larger world last election and it just breaks my heart.
Edit: I'm not condemning anyone in this thread specifically. I just want to make it clear that South Koreans would be the first to deal with the dire consequences of attacking North Korea, and I think that's a very important concern.
Coriolanus
Banned
They'd be the second.
The first would be the North Korean citizens, who already have waaaay too big a shitpile on their platter.
TetraGenesis
Member
If not us specifically, many many millions of innocent people.
Reunification of Korea will die along with millions of South Koreans and Japanese (both Japan and Soutth Korea are U.S. allies directly within striking distance of North Korea's nuclear arms) should the United States go to war. Trump has no idea what he's doing if he's weighing in on a direct attack...especially if he reveals where the U.S.' nuclear subs are. Again.
Yeah, remember that time Donald Trump had his uncle fed to wild dogs and his half brother murdered with VX nerve gas? Then there's that whole starving and brainwashing his people thing.
Lil Kim is a saint compared to the shit Trump has done...such as?
TetraGenesis
Member
This is what I fear most as well. I've been feeling like I really need to visit Seoul (and Tokyo for similar reasons) before shit possibly goes down and these rising tensions are making it feel like a panic. I wouldn't be as worried if we didn't have literally the worst possible person dealing with this in The White House. I think a lot of it would continue to be Kim Jong Un posturing (which the world could deal with) but the only world leader more prone to posturing than Un is Trump. He'd love the opportunity to wage scorched-earth war the likes of which the world has never seen.
In fact... if Trump isn't removed from office, I'm 99.9% it will happen within the next three years. And the world will never, ever, ever be the same.
Nydius
Member
Maybe I'm being too alarmist but if things keep going the way they are, I'm really concerned about the safety of everyone involved at the Pyeongchang Winter Olympic Games this upcoming February. Although I doubt he would ever do anything when the whole international community is there, it will be a massive stage for Kim Jong Un to play his saber rattling games.
I'm really concerned that these upcoming Winter Olympics are going to be a political shit show (beyond the typical IOC financial and corruption shitshow they normally are).
Goldenroad
Member
We don't know, because there is no transparency in the white house.
Yep. Says it right in the OP.
The US sparking an international conflict with NK would mean millions from SK and CH with their heads to the blade.
I'm gonna need a "Possible Nuke Area" map to be 100% sure.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
South Korea. Japan. The US the moment they can.
Kim Jong Un had 340 people executed during his first 5 years, and usually not using the nicest methods. I don't see Trump executing someone by blasting them to bits with an anti-aircraft gun for dozing off during a meeting.
Anyway, moving on from that post...
I don't think it is bad that military force is an option. I'd rather us do something before they have a nuke pointed at every major US city. NK is too unstable to trust them not to pull the trigger someday. But military force should be the last option because it isn't going to end well.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
World: "do noting America"
N.Korea attacks
World: " why didn't you do anything America?!?"
Or
America: "we are invading"
World: "wtf is wrong with you America"
N.Korea attacks
World: " why didn't you do anything America?!?"
Or
America: "we are invading"
World: "wtf is wrong with you America"
NYCmetsfan
Banned
You think NK is going to launch preemptive attacks on there, with the US commitment to defend those two countries?
These are not what's happening
NYCmetsfan
Banned
If you read my post
The problem is miscalculation that leads to war. That is solved by diplomacy and moving more towards more normalized relationship and some formal end to the Korean War.
There's no solving the fact that NK will have ICBMs with nuclear capabilities. That's already decided. This idea of a denuclearized peninsula is dangerously impossible. They're not giving up their nukes. The line the "us will not accept a nuclear armed North Korea" is laughable. Unless we want to see nuclear war we have to.
We tried normalizing relations all the way back in 1994 for the U.S with the Agreed Framework and in 1998 with the Sunshine policy for SK. Both failed, in 2003 for the agreed frame work and 2008 or 2010 for the sunshine policy.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Not especially, though it would be possible now. My concern is over the long-term. It is only a matter of time before NK has the capabilities to attack the US. This is why I don't think sitting around waiting is a good option either.
Gabriel_Logan
Member
Doubt it. They had their chance to work something out. They didn't.
What people don't seem to be thinking about in here is that if the US "preemptively" attacks NK in the region, it might give China license to move into Taiwan, and then you actually might have a pacific theater wwiii all over again. If the US is going to kill potentially hundreds of thousands of people China will consider doing the same to take Taiwan.
Beyond that if the US attacks and NK is able to get even one Nuke off, it goes down the the greatest foreign policy mistake ever made, with potentially millions of lives in the balance. Even if they can successfully artillery shell Seoul for even just minutes hundreds of thousands would die. There is no good option other than continuing sanctions. You could try an assassination but you can't be sure some of Kim's generals aren't as crazy, or even crazier than he is.
Beyond that if the US attacks and NK is able to get even one Nuke off, it goes down the the greatest foreign policy mistake ever made, with potentially millions of lives in the balance. Even if they can successfully artillery shell Seoul for even just minutes hundreds of thousands would die. There is no good option other than continuing sanctions. You could try an assassination but you can't be sure some of Kim's generals aren't as crazy, or even crazier than he is.
gustave154
Member
All the options are bad... seems like North Korea got the upper hand which really scares the hell out of me.
Coriolanus
Banned
He said that there was a military option. He never said there was a good, or smart, or not fuckstupid military option.
NK has exactly the same hand it has had for more than five decades: the one where all they can get from it is the privilege of their continued existence. Abso-fucking-lutely nothing else.
you reaaaally don't wanna go with instability wrt NK. The place is stable as fuck. Has been for longer than we've been alive. Is the one thing they're good at. *solely as far as stability is concerned* one can easily argue that they're more stable than giving the world's largest nuclear arsenal to whatever batshit insane individual wins a popularity contest.
I don't believe that the US will go to war with NK, but I can imagine Donnie would be willing to fight one even without the support of SK.
Also this is kind of a long article, but it's a nice outline on the four possible outcomes.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-worst-problem-on-earth/528717/
Also this is kind of a long article, but it's a nice outline on the four possible outcomes.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-worst-problem-on-earth/528717/
Bush pulled out of the Agreed Framework due to hardliners in his administration. Just like Trump is going to pull out of the Iran deal and cause Iran to get nukes and ICBMs. In 2030 we will be complaining about the dastardly Iranians and the failed JCPOA.
ThatStupidLion
Member
Pure distraction for this whole term
Nydius
Member
I did read your post. And nothing you've written since disputes anything I brought up. Thirty years of diplomacy hasn't prevented them from becoming a nuclear state or prevented them from developing ICBMs.
You think diplomacy would work if Kim Jong Un goes full batshit and takes a minor slight and blows it out of proportion?
North Korea wasn't innocent in the agreement falling apart, and the sunshine policy failing with South Korea can be blamed mostly on North Korea.
Coriolanus
Banned
Hypotheticals are meaningless. As far as he has shown, KJU is quite a bit more sane than his father. Can that change one day? Sure. The same way India can someday elect a batshit cray person that will nuke pakistan over a minor slight, or vice versa. The same way France could've gone batshit and elected Le Pen. The same way the largest nuclear arsenal in the world could end up in the hands of a man that ran for president out of spite. The same way the second largest nuclear arsenal in the globe might very well be under the control of a mobster.
Given that KJU has never shown suicidal tendencies, however, going to quite some fucking lengths to make sure that his odds of drawing breath remain good, there is currently no reason to think that he'll go cray.
Tbf, if China weren't, yknow, China, i'd go out on a leg and say that they'd be better off replacing US military bases with Chinese ones.
This is incorrect because as far as U.S knows they have not miniaturized their nukes enough to fit on a warhead and it isn't easy to do so, but as time goes on they learn how. Also range of an ICBM does not equal accuracy.
That statement you called laughable is a very real threat U.S could pull off. It is also not impossible, but it is dangerous. The only chance for a nuclear war would be the China issue as Russia really wouldn't be able to do anything there. As a person who really thinks war is the last option, if I was President I would be very tempted as I too also view a nuclear armed North Korea (same with Iran or any other country that attempts to) is not acceptable and military action should be used if all other options are exhausted.