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[VanMardigan]

Wrongful convictions don't exist In your world, because a trial existed. Got it.

This case is proven to be a wrongful conviction? I feel like we are talking past each other, my point was that you can't say there wasn't enough evidence to convict.... if in fact a person is convicted. Of course, the jury and judge could be wrong, it happens, although I think they got it right this time. We will see, at the very least there will be enough fodder to argue about for the foreseeable future. Someone speculated that the prosecution and defense could work out a deal if the judge allows it. I wouldn't mind, if adnan is willing to come clean.

 

[Malyse]

This case is proven to be a wrongful conviction? I feel like we are talking past each other, my point was that you can't say there wasn't enough evidence to convict.... if in fact a person is convicted. Of course, the jury and judge could be wrong, it happens, although I think they got it right this time. We will see, at the very least there will be enough fodder to argue about for the foreseeable future. Someone speculated that the prosecution and defense could work out a deal if the judge allows it. I wouldn't mind, if adnan is willing to come clean.

Interesting how you demean having a reasonable doubt because of "listening to a few podcasts" yet those same podcasts have apparently convinced you of both Adnan's guilt and that the justice system isn't and hasn't been alarmingly frequently proven fallible.

 

[VanMardigan]

Interesting how you demean having a reasonable doubt because of "listening to a few podcasts" yet those same podcasts have apparently convinced you of both Adnan's guilt and that the justice system isn't and hasn't been alarmingly frequently proven fallible.

So much wrong with this paragraph. I don't demean anyone for having reasonable doubt. My point is that the standard of reasonable doubt is only useful during the trial. Adnan has been convicted, reasonable doubt no longer applies, he needs to either find the actual killer, exculpatory evidence, or prove ineffective assistance of counsel, which is the path he is pushing. Also, there is now much more than just the podcasts, so I've read trial transcripts, seen pictures, and read other documents related to the trial that were not made available to us during serial. The podcasts are all slanted in favor of adnan, going through the materials gives you a more balanced view imo.

I do not believe in the infallibility of the justice system, and in fact that's one area where undisclosed preys on perception. They paint every mistake by the prosecution and police as part of a grand conspiracy to convict adnan. There is the whole myth, which was parroted in the previous page, about the cops basically not investigating anybody other than adnan, or the insane theory that they made up Jay's testimony from scratch and coached him just so they could get adnan. There are people doxxing Don and harassing him and his family, without any evidence that he was involved in the murder.

All the while, Jay is demonized and his lies are constantly brought up, but what about adnan's lies? Why is an innocent man in jail still lying about asking for the ride, about what he was doing in the late morning, after school, at 7 pm, lying about what he did with the Asia letters, lying about what Hae told him about their relationship, etc.?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Coincidental to noticing this thread is alive and well, I just started re-listening to Serial not 30 mins ago.

I've been on a podcast binge and caught up on Undisclosed over the course of a week. I am hyper aware of the show's bias towards Adnan (proceeds going to Free Adnan and all), but I think the show's functional purpose is to show how bullshit the trial was rather than proving Adnan was innocent. It accomplishes raising reasonable doubt time and again, and I'm very interested in that. Personally, I don't trust Adnan or necessarily believe he's 100% innocent, but that conviction was based on incompetence and racism. Those fucking Baltimore cops.

Side note, since I see people talking about Mystery Show, I've been a huge fan of Gimlet since StartUp episode 1. Prior to Serial I didn't regularly follow podcasts, but This American Life has always been one of my favorite works of storytelling. I love Reply All and from the one episode out right now, I think I'm going to like Surprisingly Awesome. I binged through Mystery Show yesterday, and it really grew on me.

I love the whole public radio/ex-NPR family of podcasts so much! Next up: catching up on Invisibilia!

Side side note: some of the topics are interesting but I am not feeling RadioLab. Their style can grate so bad.

Yeah your take away was largely how I felt as well. Adnan might very well be guilty but the trial was a complete sham.

Interesting you feel that way about Radiolab I think from a production standpoint they are more professional and easier to listen to than This American Life or Serial(Though I like them both) big thing about Radiolab for me is they do an excellent job with music and understand how to integrate it and sound FX to help the story whereas NPR just sounds like they are using the same samples from some royalty free disc over and over and over. Something funny happened quick play the wacky flute sample!

 

[border]

RadioLab can be pretty grating. I often have to force myself to listen to it, and only when there's absolutely nothing else to listen to out of my other subscriptions.

The way stories are framed with the phony conversations between Jad/Robert is irritating. More and more it seems like they just do stories about whatever they want, rather than do stories about science.

 

[Dalek]

RadioLab can be pretty grating. I often have to force myself to listen to it, and only when there's absolutely nothing else to listen to out of my other subscriptions.

The way stories are framed with the phony conversations between Jad/Robert is irritating. More and more it seems like they just do stories about whatever they want, rather than do stories about science.

Yeah I feel the same. It's overproduced. I can't even stand the opening anymore. "Wait...uh...you're listening to Radiolab!"

Just be subtle. The content is usually good enough, you don't need to rely on production tricks. Invisiblia was like this. They literally interrupted a story to go up on their rooftops and shout something out.

 

[Nappuccino]

Disagreeing with the decision of the jury is all well and good, but you are confusing your opinion of the case with a subjective fact. He was convicted, so the jury felt there was enough to convict. The judge agreed. You don't, you've listened to a few podcasts, that's cool.

If all juries were full of intelligent people, and all evidence was portrayed accurately and fairly, maybe I would agree.

edit: I enjoyed the playful nature of Invibilia. My main problem with radio lab is that the episodes are a bit too short or don't have a cohesive whole like they used to. I still enjoy Jad and Robert a lot though.

 

[Trance]

Yeah I feel the same. It's overproduced. I can't even stand the opening anymore. "Wait...uh...you're listening to Radiolab!"

Just be subtle. The content is usually good enough, you don't need to rely on production tricks. Invisiblia was like this. They literally interrupted a story to go up on their rooftops and shout something out.

Yes yes yes. I agree with everyone calling it over produced, and that intro is painful. I remember one of the first episodes I heard there was literally a portion where they were cutting between different people saying the words to ONE sentence. That is so damn grating.

Gimlet, TAL, Serial, and most of NPR uses music to influence the tone (some more subtly than others) and keeps the storytelling front and center. Radiolab has a second host who is unnecessary by being an audience fill-in and has stylized editing that gets in the way.

Though I see the similarities, I'm listening to Invisibilia right now and it just isn't grating to me.

Startup, Reply All, TAL, Serial and now Surprisingly Awesome (despite only 2 eps) are my favorites. Invisibilia could get there. My other favorites are Cracked (though they can be repetitive) and Q&A with Jeff Goldsmith. I also really dig Criminal, Lore, Song Exploder, and Mystery Show. And always happy to take more recommendations I should seek out an active Podcasts Community Thread here on GAF.

 

[komplanen]

I'm a little confused by the last few pages. So much talk about other unrelated podcasts and (fan?) theories about drug deals gone bad all mushed together by jumps of several weeks between posts.

So let me get this straight:

Sword guy threatening to sue a Reddit over something has nothing to do with Serial, right?

Who exactly are these people who came up with the drug deal theory? Susan was it? Or is Susan from another podcast again?

Why should anyone care? Is this serious enough news that it's going to be shown in the upcoming hearing? Is calling it a fan theory doing it a disservice?

Are they suggesting the podcast withheld evidence or are people defending the podcast suggesting the opposite? Who exactly has this mysterious diary?

What?

 

[neojubei]

Adnan Syed motion to reopen post conviction proceedings granted

Those cell records are gonna get shredded and there goes the state's case.

That's good to hear. I hope they call Asia to testify.

 

[VanMardigan]

That's good to hear. I hope they call Asia to testify.

Asia testifying may not be the slam dunk a lot of people are expecting. If the prosecutors prepare for her testimony, they can raise a lot of questions about how her affidavit was produced (with rabia at a check cashing place), whether adnan wrote part of her testimony, why she offered to serve as alibi for the entire evening at first, even though she wasn't with him, and who influenced that initial wide alibi claim to instead become the exact specific time that prosecutors allege the murder took place at trial. Which raises the question, maybe the lawyer DID investigate the Asia alibi and decided it was too risky to put her up for cross.


Also, there is the question of whether the time she alleges in the letter is really an alibi at all, since Jay and Jenn both testified at trial to a later time that isn't covered by the alibi. Finally, will she show up to testify this time? She refused to testify the last time, and the narrative by serial was that urick dissuaded her, but apparently her conversation with urick happened after the hearing date. No bueno.

 

[RustyNails]

Asia testifying may not be the slam dunk a lot of people are expecting. If the prosecutors prepare for her testimony, they can raise a lot of questions about how her affidavit was produced (with rabia at a check cashing place),

Why does it matter where her affidavit was produced?

 

[neojubei]

Asia testifying may not be the slam dunk a lot of people are expecting. If the prosecutors prepare for her testimony, they can raise a lot of questions about how her affidavit was produced (with rabia at a check cashing place), whether adnan wrote part of her testimony, why she offered to serve as alibi for the entire evening at first, even though she wasn't with him, and who influenced that initial wide alibi claim to instead become the exact specific time that prosecutors allege the murder took place at trial. Which raises the question, maybe the lawyer DID investigate the Asia alibi and decided it was too risky to put her up for cross.


Also, there is the question of whether the time she alleges in the letter is really an alibi at all, since Jay and Jenn both testified at trial to a later time that isn't covered by the alibi. Finally, will she show up to testify this time? She refused to testify the last time, and the narrative by serial was that urick dissuaded her, but apparently her conversation with urick happened after the hearing date. No bueno.

How about the cell phone data to determine location is complete garbage. That would be more effective than Asia's testimony?

Why does it matter where her affidavit was produced?

To prove Adnan is guilty of course. Given all the shady tactics done by Ulrich it all comes down to where the affidavit was written.

 

[VanMardigan]

Why does it matter where her affidavit was produced?

With all the dumb circumstantial crap that undisclosed has brought up, the fact that Asia's alibi goes from broad to ultra specific after she meets with Rabia is at least on par with some of the zany Jay theories.

How about the cell phone data to determine location is complete garbage. That would be more effective than Asia's testimony?

It's not complete garbage, but I know why you say that. Ongoing and outgoing call location accuracy have been correlated without error by users on Reddit, regardless of what that cover sheet says. And if a bunch of amateurs can do that, imagine what a state cell phone expert can do. Fact is, Adnan was not where he said he was that evening (the mosque), and not even Sarah could get him to come clean on where he was.

 

[Vyer]

Yes yes yes. I agree with everyone calling it over produced, and that intro is painful. I remember one of the first episodes I heard there was literally a portion where they were cutting between different people saying the words to ONE sentence. That is so damn grating.

Gimlet, TAL, Serial, and most of NPR uses music to influence the tone (some more subtly than others) and keeps the storytelling front and center. Radiolab has a second host who is unnecessary by being an audience fill-in and has stylized editing that gets in the way.

Though I see the similarities, I'm listening to Invisibilia right now and it just isn't grating to me.

Startup, Reply All, TAL, Serial and now Surprisingly Awesome (despite only 2 eps) are my favorites. Invisibilia could get there. My other favorites are Cracked (though they can be repetitive) and Q&A with Jeff Goldsmith. I also really dig Criminal, Lore, Song Exploder, and Mystery Show. And always happy to take more recommendations I should seek out an active Podcasts Community Thread here on GAF.

Reply All, while still a good show, feels forced and 'fake' with their production imo. Like their 'banter' is trying so hard to be off the cuff that it just ends up awkward. I'd rather Radiolab's more deliberate production to that, honestly. It embraces the 'show' aspect directly and doesn't pretend otherwise.

Plus, I've found Radiolab's content in general to be far more interesting.

 

[Nappuccino]

With all the dumb circumstantial crap that undisclosed has brought up, the fact that Asia's alibi goes from broad to ultra specific after she meets with Rabia is at least on par with some of the zany Jay theories.



It's not complete garbage, but I know why you say that. Ongoing and outgoing call location accuracy have been correlated without error by users on Reddit, regardless of what that cover sheet says. And if a bunch of amateurs can do that, imagine what a state cell phone expert can do. Fact is, Adnan was not where he said he was that evening (the mosque), and not even Sarah could get him to come clean on where he was.

Just because cellphone records were proven accurate once does not mean they were accurate on that day. If one tower was very busy, the signal would have gone to a different tower. So yes, cellphone records can be accurate, but they also aren't necessarily accurate. So . . . fact is, we don't know where Adnan was with any more certainty than he does.

 

[Timeaisis]

Since I've finished Serial and really loved it...can anyone recommend a podcast that is similar? I don't care about the subject as much, just want something similarly interesting, and well put together. I've tried a few but Serial has way higher production values and can actual tell a narrative whereas most other podcasts I find about subjects I'm interested in just end up rambling.

 

[VanMardigan]

Just because cellphone records were proven accurate once does not mean they were accurate on that day.

And what if the verification data included that day? Because they did.

If one tower was very busy, the signal would have gone to a different tower.

And what if we know that, in 1999, there was no tower close enough to switch to, from, let's say.... Leakin Park? And then, we also find out that the towers that cover the mosque, Adnan's stated alibi, could not geographically also cover Leakin Park. That wasn't quite discussed by undisclosed, was it?

 

[sometimes i game]

Since I've finished Serial and really loved it...can anyone recommend a podcast that is similar? I don't care about the subject as much, just want something similarly interesting, and well put together. I've tried a few but Serial has way higher production values and can actual tell a narrative whereas most other podcasts I find about subjects I'm interested in just end up rambling.

They don't exist. It just takes too much time, money and is like capturing lightning in a bottle. So while you care more about presentation and less about the story, most have a good story but bad presentation.

The newest one that seems like it might be captivating is Unsolved, but there's only 1 episode so jury is out. This our best bet for overall best package - story, narrative, presentation etc.

Otherwise there is Missing Maura, which has wonderful source material but is basically like listening to 2 drunks rant about everything they've read in no particular order. It's just a mess. But it's worth reading an article or two about Maura, this event is interesting. Then there is 48 Hours - Hannah Graham, which is actually interesting but the narrator's voice is a turn off for a lot of people. This one is ok. Finally there's Breakdown, which I can't remember anything about so I guess that says enough about how I feel about it, and if you can deal with the story being fake, Limetown, which is 100% made up.

You're not going to find one as interesting as Serial. Sarah is great at creating a narrative, and others fail at that. I recommend Unsolved, and then checking out Criminal. Criminal is awesome, each episode stands a lone. A lot of the earlier episodes are better than the newer ones, so start at the beginning. Finally Invisibilia is put together amazingly, I would check out the Batman episode. It's not about Batman, it's about blind people who can see, like bats.

 

[Dalek]

It's not about Batman, it's about blind people who can see, like bats.

Supposedly.

 

[The Albatross]

Yes yes yes. I agree with everyone calling it over produced, and that intro is painful. I remember one of the first episodes I heard there was literally a portion where they were cutting between different people saying the words to ONE sentence. That is so damn grating.

Gotta stick up for RadioLab here across some of these posts (not just your's Trance, but the others before). The show has been doing this style for over 10 years, and it started with this "over produced" style back before anybody did anything like this on the radio and before Podcasts really exists (or had any popular momentum). The soundscaping is a hallmark of the show, one of the reasons it's garnered so much praise (including a Peabody Award), and the style of Jad & Robert is really an important characteristic of the show. Taking that away from RadioLab would be like asking Car Talk to stop making corny jokes and instead just focus on automotive advice.

 

[Dalek]

Gotta stick up for RadioLab here across some of these posts (not just your's Trance, but the others before). The show has been doing this style for over 10 years, and it started with this "over produced" style back before anybody did anything like this on the radio and before Podcasts really exists (or had any popular momentum). The soundscaping is a hallmark of the show, one of the reasons it's garnered so much praise (including a Peabody Award), and the style of Jad & Robert is really an important characteristic of the show. Taking that away from RadioLab would be like asking Car Talk to stop making corny jokes and instead just focus on automotive advice.

That's fine-but hearing that opening sequence over and over again gets grating. If it was something new each week it would be one thing.

 

[Nappuccino]

And what if the verification data included that day? Because they did.




And what if we know that, in 1999, there was no tower close enough to switch to, from, let's say.... Leakin Park? And then, we also find out that the towers that cover the mosque, Adnan's stated alibi, could not geographically also cover Leakin Park. That wasn't quite discussed by undisclosed, was it?

Are you referring to a bunch of amateurs on Reddit? I guess I don't understand why you're taking their claims of validation so seriously.

 

[Moobabe]

I'm a few minutes away from the end of Serial and have a couple of thoughts on how I've swung from start to finish.

1. Innocent. The case that the prosecution presented was flimsy at best. Motive wasn't there, they couldn't really place him anywhere that day. He could have been at track, he could have been in the library etc

2. Sceptical. Jay is an enormous enigma in this case. He lies about that day repeatedly - he can't account for, pretty much, that whole afternoon and his story doesn't corroborate enough with the phone records. Jay is lying about something but...

3. So is Adnan. He has no answer for where he was that afternoon. Not one. And, in the final episode, she makes a point about him needing to be incredibly unlucky for this not to look bad for him: the butt dial, happens to give Jay his car AND phone on this day of ALL days?

I'm excited now that evidence is being presented again - because, as I said, the case was not enough, or should not have been enough, to convict someone of murder.

The DNA testing they mention in that final episode, too, I hope turns up something but, again, Jay.

How did Jay know where Hae's car was.

Ultimately this story boils down to two people; Jay and Adnan. One or both is lying about something.

 

[EightBitNate]

Yeah I'm curious of a couple things. What I want to know the most is how Jay knew certain things that he really should not have known. I don't think he did it, for one reason or another, but I think he definitely KNEW who did it. And I don't think it was Adnan either. I think at one point earlier in the podcast, Sarah suggests that much of Jay's story is legit but instead of Adnan, Hae's killer is someone else; like Jay just substituted the killer's name for Adnan. Is there another person involved we don't know about? Or could the actual killer be someone already discussed in the podcast? Mr. S? Don? Jay himself? I don't really know what to expect.

 

[Arkeband]

Yeah I'm curious of a couple things. What I want to know the most is how Jay knew certain things that he really should not have known. I don't think he did it, for one reason or another, but I think he definitely KNEW who did it. And I don't think it was Adnan either. I think at one point earlier in the podcast, Sarah suggests that much of Jay's story is legit but instead of Adnan, Hae's killer is someone else; like Jay just substituted the killer's name for Adnan. Is there another person involved we don't know about? Or could the actual killer be someone already discussed in the podcast? Mr. S? Don? Jay himself? I don't really know what to expect.

The easiest answer is that Adnan did it, Jay helped him bury Hae but felt really bad about it, he struggled with it over a period of time and then tried to collect a CrimeBusters reward before someone else told on Adnan and also so he could control the narrative, but then when he realized all his information definitely implicated himself, juggling all of his mistruths became a burden, and the cops realized that this dumbass kid was going to jeopardize the entire case, so they *KNOCK, KNOCK* coached him. The cops made reference to a bike Jay wanted to buy with the money so they used that as leverage.

However, the evidence they used to put Adnan behind bars was mishandled and in retrospect is inadmissible, so there's a large chance he might go free.

If I was an omniscient outsider, I'd watch Jay's behavior if Adnan is released more than I would watch Adnan's. If Adnan is a killer and Jay knows it, Jay's life will have become less safe. Adnan, on the other hand, will likely have some fame and a cult following, so he'll be on his best behavior.

 

[Timeaisis]

They don't exist. It just takes too much time, money and is like capturing lightning in a bottle. So while you care more about presentation and less about the story, most have a good story but bad presentation.

The newest one that seems like it might be captivating is Unsolved, but there's only 1 episode so jury is out. This our best bet for overall best package - story, narrative, presentation etc.

Otherwise there is Missing Maura, which has wonderful source material but is basically like listening to 2 drunks rant about everything they've read in no particular order. It's just a mess. But it's worth reading an article or two about Maura, this event is interesting. Then there is 48 Hours - Hannah Graham, which is actually interesting but the narrator's voice is a turn off for a lot of people. This one is ok. Finally there's Breakdown, which I can't remember anything about so I guess that says enough about how I feel about it, and if you can deal with the story being fake, Limetown, which is 100% made up.

You're not going to find one as interesting as Serial. Sarah is great at creating a narrative, and others fail at that. I recommend Unsolved, and then checking out Criminal. Criminal is awesome, each episode stands a lone. A lot of the earlier episodes are better than the newer ones, so start at the beginning. Finally Invisibilia is put together amazingly, I would check out the Batman episode. It's not about Batman, it's about blind people who can see, like bats.

Yeah, I kind of figured there was nothing else with this high production values. But thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah I'm curious of a couple things. What I want to know the most is how Jay knew certain things that he really should not have known. I don't think he did it, for one reason or another, but I think he definitely KNEW who did it. And I don't think it was Adnan either. I think at one point earlier in the podcast, Sarah suggests that much of Jay's story is legit but instead of Adnan, Hae's killer is someone else; like Jay just substituted the killer's name for Adnan. Is there another person involved we don't know about? Or could the actual killer be someone already discussed in the podcast? Mr. S? Don? Jay himself? I don't really know what to expect.

There's a bit they go into on I think the second to last episode. It deals with some of the phone calls in the afternoon, which is where things get really weird. Adnan lent his phone to Jay, remember, but according to Jay's story they were both together in the afternoon after Adnan killed Hae. However, at some point Adnan and Jay go to Jay's girlfriend's apartment and chill out for a bit, smoke some weed. At this point Adnan's phone rings Jay's girlfriend's landline. But Jay and Adnan admit they are together...at that apartment. So either they are both are lying about them being together and Adnan is calling Jay at his girlfriend's place or Adnan and Jay are both lying about being there and one of them is calling Jay's girlfriend.

The whole phone situation is a huge red flag. Also, the Best Buy phone may not even exist.

It kind of seems to me like they are both lying about something. But why would Adnan cover for Jay to this degree? That doesn't make sense. Their story aligns too much in certain aspects, but obviously doesn't align regarding the murder part.

 

[Moobabe]

The easiest answer is that Adnan did it, Jay helped him bury Hae but felt really bad about it, he struggled with it over a period of time and then tried to collect a CrimeBusters reward before someone else told on Adnan and also so he could control the narrative, but then when he realized all his information definitely implicated himself, juggling all of his mistruths became a burden, and the cops realized that this dumbass kid was going to jeopardize the entire case, so they *KNOCK, KNOCK* coached him. The cops made reference to a bike Jay wanted to buy with the money so they used that as leverage.

However, the evidence they used to put Adnan behind bars was mishandled and in retrospect is inadmissible, so there's a large chance he might go free.

If I was an omniscient outsider, I'd watch Jay's behavior if Adnan is released more than I would watch Adnan's. If Adnan is a killer and Jay knows it, Jay's life will have become less safe. Adnan, on the other hand, will likely have some fame and a cult following, so he'll be on his best behavior.

I mean... the bolded is kind of what I'm, for want of a better expression, fearing? I know that Sarah suggests the same, like, she spent a year or so of her life on this project - and what if it turns out that Adnan killed Hae?

Does anyone think, honestly, that we'll get an answer from this being reopened? Will we ever?

There's a bit they go into on I think the second to last episode. It deals with some of the phone calls in the afternoon, which is where things get really weird. Adnan lent his phone to Jay, remember, but according to Jay's story they were both together in the afternoon after Adnan killed Hae. However, at some point Adnan and Jay go to Jay's girlfriend's apartment and chill out for a bit, smoke some weed. At this point Adnan's phone rings Jay's girlfriend's landline. But Jay and Adnan admit they are together...at that apartment. So either they are both are lying about them being together and Adnan is calling Jay at his girlfriend's place or Adnan and Jay are both lying about being there and one of them is calling Jay's girlfriend.

The whole phone situation is a huge red flag. Also, the Best Buy phone may not even exist.

It kind of seems to me like they are both lying about something. But why would Adnan cover for Jay to this degree? That doesn't make sense. Their story aligns too much in certain aspects, but obviously doesn't align regarding the murder part.

The phone might exist, too, Sarah says as much in the second to last episode I think? Saying it could be inside the BB or something?

Their whereabouts on that afternoon and into the evening are so troubling. They are definitely both lying about something there.

 

[VanMardigan]

Once you go down the road of acknowledging that Jay was involved, like I did, it eventually becomes inescapable that Adnan was the killer. You can contort, you can hope for some mystery person that fits Adnan's profile but is not Adnan, argue that Adnan has a good reason for backing away from DNA testing after agreeing to do it during Serial. You can talk yourself into a butt dial, convince yourself that Adnan has legit amnesia for the mid morning and evening, that he was only driving past Leakin Park on his way to the mosque with his dad while calling Jay's friends....... but then you just have to kind of throw your hands up and acknowledge that, although there will forever be holes because neither Adnan nor Jay is interested in telling us the truth... Adnan killed Hae.

 

[Dalek]

Once you go down the road of acknowledging that Jay was involved, like I did, it eventually becomes inescapable that Adnan was the killer. You can contort, you can hope for some mystery person that fits Adnan's profile but is not Adnan, argue that Adnan has a good reason for backing away from DNA testing after agreeing to do it during Serial. You can talk yourself into a butt dial, convince yourself that Adnan has legit amnesia for the mid morning and evening, that he was only driving past Leakin Park on his way to the mosque with his dad while calling Jay's friends....... but then you just have to kind of throw your hands up and acknowledge that, although there will forever be holes because neither Adnan nor Jay is interested in telling us the truth... Adnan killed Hae.

Its conclusions that you come up with and stories like this :

http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/the-guilty-man/

That make me live in terror of being wrongly accused of a crime in America and have a jury decide my fate. I served Jury Duty last week, and while I was not chosen-I was thinking about this the entire time. I was looking at the defendant and the thought that his fate could lay in my hands weighed very heavily on me. This thought of "well who else could it be?" Without any evidence is fucking startling.

 

[VanMardigan]

And I hope that, if I go to jury trial for murdering my ex girlfriend, I don't have to

-pretend like I don't remember a huge chunk of my day, even though on that day the police called me asking if I knew where my ex was

-that I loaned my car and phone and spent the majority of the day with the guy who then points the finger at me, and I have no idea why they would point the finger at me

-someone accidentally butt dials the new girl I'm talking to on the only day and time I claim I didn't have my phone with me, which is also the day when my ex goes missing

-ask my ex girl for a ride on the morning she goes missing even though I had a perfectly working car in the parking lot, and then lie about it afterwards, then lie to the nurse about the last words my ex girlfriend said to me (that she wanted to get back with me)

-Make one of only two calls in a 3 month period from the burial site of my girlfriend on the evening she was buried

-Refuse to test the DNA because reasons, after initially agreeing to test on a national podcast

-Not bother to call or page my missing ex even though she was the second call I made when I initially got my cell phone the night before she went missing

I could go on, but what are the chances?

 

[EightBitNate]

And I hope that, if I go to jury trial for murdering my ex girlfriend, I don't have to

-pretend like I don't remember a huge chunk of my day, even though on that day the police called me asking if I knew where my ex was

-that I loaned my car and phone and spent the majority of the day with the guy who then points the finger at me, and I have no idea why they would point the finger at me

-someone accidentally butt dials the new girl I'm talking to on the only day and time I claim I didn't have my phone with me, which is also the day when my ex goes missing

-ask my ex girl for a ride on the morning she goes missing even though I had a perfectly working car in the parking lot, and then lie about it afterwards, then lie to the nurse about the last words my ex girlfriend said to me (that she wanted to get back with me)

-Make one of only two calls in a 3 month period from the burial site of my girlfriend on the evening she was buried

-Refuse to test the DNA because reasons, after initially agreeing to test on a national podcast

-Not bother to call or page my missing ex even though she was the second call I made when I initially got my cell phone the night before she went missing

I could go on, but what are the chances?

How often do suspects respond with "I don't remember" when asked where they were the day someone got murdered? There a couple of alibis that Adnan could have rode with. The library alibi, the track alibi, or the mosque alibi are all things he could have faked well if he wanted to. Instead, all he says is "I was probably doing this thing." He had the ability to fake an alibi if he wanted to. That's why I find the whole "I can't remember" thing believable.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

And I hope that, if I go to jury trial for murdering my ex girlfriend, I don't have to

-pretend like I don't remember a huge chunk of my day, even though on that day the police called me asking if I knew where my ex was

-that I loaned my car and phone and spent the majority of the day with the guy who then points the finger at me, and I have no idea why they would point the finger at me

-someone accidentally butt dials the new girl I'm talking to on the only day and time I claim I didn't have my phone with me, which is also the day when my ex goes missing

-ask my ex girl for a ride on the morning she goes missing even though I had a perfectly working car in the parking lot, and then lie about it afterwards, then lie to the nurse about the last words my ex girlfriend said to me (that she wanted to get back with me)

-Make one of only two calls in a 3 month period from the burial site of my girlfriend on the evening she was buried

-Refuse to test the DNA because reasons, after initially agreeing to test on a national podcast

-Not bother to call or page my missing ex even though she was the second call I made when I initially got my cell phone the night before she went missing

I could go on, but what are the chances?

Man I hope you're never on a jury. Completely unrealistic expectations for human memory.

 

[Arkeband]

The phone might exist, too, Sarah says as much in the second to last episode I think? Saying it could be inside the BB or something?

There was some Serial blog made by fans that I was reading where they went to that Best Buy and in the foyer there was plastered-over slots in the wall for where the payphone used to be, so it's incredibly likely that the phone existed. Pictures were included as proof.

I worked at a newer BBY and that wall was flush and only held pictures of the management. The opposite wall was blank because that side was reserved for ink cartridge recycling.

 

[VanMardigan]

How often do suspects respond with "I don't remember" when asked where they were the day someone got murdered? There a couple of alibis that Adnan could have rode with. The library alibi, the track alibi, or the mosque alibi are all things he could have faked well if he wanted to. Instead, all he says is "I was probably doing this thing." He had the ability to fake an alibi if he wanted to. That's why I find the whole "I can't remember" thing believable.

The library alibi is what they are going with now, but it doesn't cover the time period both Jay and Jenn testified to in court, only the period that the prosecution mentioned in closing and Sarah focused on (2:36). Plus there are issues with the Asia alibi that are going to come up when she testifies, should be fun.

Track is something nobody disputes, even Jay testified to it. Adnan DID remember going to track, the problem is it doesn't cover the likely murder period.

The mosque alibi was something that Cristina was working on using in court, she even got a bunch of Adnan's friends and family to sign an affidavit saying he was at the mosque at 7 when Jay testified the burial took place. The problem? Adnan was using his phone at 7, near Leakin Park, and another half hour after that in different areas of the city not near the mosque. Undisclosed and Serial spent a bunch of time crapping on his lawyer, but he didn't give her anything to work with, and when he did offer something, it was disproven by other witnesses or the cell phone data. So ultimately, he doesn't have a choice but to say he doesn't remember the key periods of the day that everyone needs him to remember, including his lawyer. He has been caught in enough lies already, I'm sure every lawyer he has had encourages him to remain vague and just say he doesn't remember.

 

[soco]

So season 2 is supposed to start tomorrow, right?

 

[dLMN8R]

So season 2 is supposed to start tomorrow, right?

Where'd you hear/read that? I haven't seen a single detail about season 2, especially not a release date...

 

[soco]

Where'd you hear/read that? I haven't seen a single detail about season 2, especially not a release date...

think i misread some news earlier. can't find anything about it now.

 

[Nappuccino]

think i misread some news earlier. can't find anything about it now.

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, sir.

 

[Stat!]

Just finished it. It was a great listen.

Exploring the subreddit, it seems 95% of people are convinced Adnan is 100% bonafide guilty but I can't find why. But I'm like Sarah I feel in that I don't really know. Some of the stuff hurts Adnan... a lot. There's a lot of bad luck there for it to be all luck but I'm not really convinced when the stories don't match up.

Im curious to those that are convinced that he's innocent or guilty, can you point to me why you think so?

 

[Malyse]

Just finished it. It was a great listen.

Exploring the subreddit, it seems 95% of people are convinced Adnan is 100% bonafide guilty but I can't find why. But I'm like Sarah I feel in that I don't really know. Some of the stuff hurts Adnan... a lot. There's a lot of bad luck there for it to be all luck but I'm not really convinced when the stories don't match up.

Im curious to those that are convinced that he's innocent or guilty, can you point to me why you think so?

I can't answer guilt, but I for damn sure don't think he got a fair trial.

 

[Fantastical]

Where the fuck is season 2?

 

[Timeaisis]

Where the fuck is season 2?

I know, right? 2015, my ass.

 

[Cornballer]

Please use the Season 2 thread for discussion of the current edition. Thank you.

 

[MBison]

Sorry for bumping this thread but after Making a Murderer now I'm addicted to true crime. I'm through 7 episodes of Serial season 1 and I am hung up on something that doesn't seem to be covered that heavily by Sarah.

1 - this story hinges on one thing -> Jay knew where to find hae's car. How would he know that if he wasn't involved either by himself or with Jen or with adnan?

To me all this other stuff nearly means nothing. Jay knew where the car was!!

I'm posting cause I'm hoping they actually go over this more cause otherwise wtf. The next episode is called The Deal with Jay so I'm hoping so.

Do they address this??

 

[border]

They never present alternative theory as to how Jay could have known where the car was.....neither do most of the people who present an alternate theory of the events. I'm not sure I've seen any real plausible "Hey, here's what could have happened if Adnan didn't do it" theory that really accounts for Jay's fore-knowledge of the car.

I suppose it could have been just dumb luck that he might have seen it somewhere -- I can't recall if it had been left in a secluded spot or not.

 

[MBison]

Yeah I just don't get it. All these episodes about how, oh the cell towers don't match or the timeline is too tight etc etc. the only thing that matters to me is Jay knew where the car was! So there are only 3 plausible explanations

1) Jay's story is essentially true.

2) Jay killed Hae for some unknown reason

3) Jay saw the car or was told of the car location and for some reason decided to make up some elaborate story

All this garbage about "but adnan is so nice!" And "their relationship wasn't like that" and timelines and crap... Jay knew where hae's car was!!!! You can't get beyond that.

Through 8 episodes I remain unconvinced that there's anything to this but adnan did it. And despite all these experts saying that things seem fishy cause of cell towers and timelines, pass. I would have convicted too based on 1) Jay knowing where the car was and 2) adnan knowing both the victim and Jay and being with him that day and having the only motive to kill her

Hoping something happens in the last 4 episodes to change my way of thinking. Kinda disappointed in this after watching Making a Murderer. Thought there would be more things that would create doubt other than Adnan was nice.

 

[ReAxion]

Jay said he happened upon the car during his normal routine. Then he couldn't identify where it was. Listen to Undisclosed. Jay's full of shit.

 

[MBison]

Jay said he happened upon the car during his normal routine. Then he couldn't identify where it was. Listen to Undisclosed. Jay's full of shit.

I don't recall in serial that coming up, that Jay says he just happened upon the car. They said they parked there?

I don't understand

 

[ReAxion]

I don't recall in serial that coming up, that Jay says he just happened upon the car. They said they parked there?

I don't understand

It depends on which version of Jay's story you're hearing.