Support NeoGAF

[vivftp]

I personally don't mind which they do, so long as I get a quality virtual headset to use with my PS4. From a business standpoint and for us as gamers, does it make sense for them to develop a Rift competitor? Do you trust Sony to build something better than the Rift?

Also, even if Sony are working on a new HMD what are the chances it will be more like the Rift rather than like their current HMDs?

 

[Nibel]

Everybody should support the Rift

I don't want bunch of different VR devices for a bunch of different platforms when there is a much easier way

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Rift looks very compelling but is still maturing. I think if they are going to support it, they are going to wait for things to reach a point where they probably can make that decision.

 

[DieH@rd]

All the inner workings of it were created many decades ago, and Oculus VR cant patent that.

Sony [or anybody else] could create their own version...

 

[Silky]

Everybody should support the Rift

Nailed it.

 

[injurai]

Even if Sony made their own, couldn't Oculus make their own peripheral version. Just like Mad Catz? I feel it's more about Oculus supporting PS3. Course you need the devs and stuff to welcome it.

 

[jchap]

They will make their own version and engineer it better if they ever decide to go that route.

 

[lefantome]

Both


first support the rift, then if they can come up with a better device sell it for ps4, pc, xb1 etc...

 

[Rad-]

The tech is still too expensive and too bulk-y. I think Sony and maybe MS will jump on it when the tech can be built to something much smaller.

 

[ghst]

VR headset support will be a big issue for consoles due to the hude demands for resolution, FoV, framerate and response time. all things that console games traditionally smudge over in order to meet the requirement eye-candy.

even on PC with the low resolution oculus rift dev kits, we're seeing the need for beefy rigs just to power old engines and rudimentary tech demos at full clip.

for this reason, i suspect the rift will remain at best a sideshow on consoles; if it is supported, i imagine it will be a similarly compromised experience to 3D on PS3.

 

[Randdalf]

I can actually see Nintendo going full-on VR in their next console, I expect Sony and Microsoft will definitely allow for developers to provide support.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

When Sony makes their own head mounted displays and televisions, why would they go out their way to support a competing device? Not saying there won't be support for games on PS4 eventually, but I'm not seeing any benefit for Sony especially when OR is very, very niche.

 

[Neuromancer]

No point in reinventing the wheel. Support the device and the money will roll in as more people buy games that are compatible.

 

[gofreak]

On the one hand I want a standard.

On the other I think things are still very early and immature, and competition between different implementations would be a good to advance things.

However if we can have simple tools/libraries to let games talk to different implementations easily, to abstract the common ground, that would be good.

For Sony specifically I would like to them include Rift support in the PS4 SDK and to have their own kit too. And to have a wrapper library that exposes common functionality in each with one interface for devs. There'll be certain outputs and certain inputs common to every type of kit...have a standard for them, then have vendor specific extensions, I guess.

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

Releasing a peripheral that costs just as much as the system? No. Hell no. That's not going to happen. But once the price drops to $150 then maybe Sony can jump on it. It wouldn't be very wise to do it anytime soon.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

All the inner workings of it were created many decades ago, and Oculus VR cant patent that.

Sony [or anybody else] could create their own version...

I don't mind if this is true as long as there's a standard protocol of some sort. Or Rift doing some kind of fair licensing deal to manufacturers in terms of specs/certification. This is all determined by greed and technical hurdles at this point. I can't imagine how this can be done on a PS4 or Xbone in a consumer friendly manner, but I'm not saying there's no solution if this pans out.

 

[Canis lupus]

They're probably working on their own right now. I will buy the Oculus Rift when it comes out, but I trust a big hardware company to make a more refined product and undercut the Rift.

 

[gdt]

The 1080p/60fps requirements will kill the Rift for consoles I think. And a lot of the more mid-range/lower range gaming PCs. Like mine until I upgrade .

 

[LordCanti]

They will make their own version and engineer it better if they ever decide to go that route.

Considering that their last HMD (The HMZ-T1/HMZ-T2) is a head destroying ergonomic nightmare, I wouldn't count on them out engineering anyone on this front.

The 1080p/60fps requirements will kill the Rift for consoles I think.

That's pretty much my argument for why it's not going to happen at this point.

 

[MechaBowser]

Keep it to just the Rift. Nobody wants 4 different VR headsets to deal with.

 

[amar212]

Releasing a peripheral that costs just as much as the system? No. Hell no. That's not going to happen.

Racing wheels says hi.

 

[LeleSocho]

Everybody should support the Rift

/thread

 

[Canis lupus]

Considering that their last HMD line (The HMZ-T1/HMZ-T2) are head destroying ergonomic nightmares, I wouldn't count on them out engineering anyone on this front.

HMZ is a completely different thing.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Just make a PS4 branded Rift like 360 did with Tritton Headsets.

 

[DBT85]

Support the rift.

Don't plough extra money into developing one for yourselves when someone else is doing it all and has to work about marketing and shit.

It's something I'd love to have a go on, but can't see me buying one.

 

[LordCanti]

HMZ is a completely different thing.

The point is that they've proven themselves incapable of designing and manufacturing an HMD with good ergonomics. I'm aware that the HMZ isn't a VR headset.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

The tech is still too expensive and too bulk-y. I think Sony and maybe MS will jump on it when the tech can be built to something much smaller.

I won't argue the size with you, but I do disagree with you regarding price. The Rift is going to be fairly inexpensive when it releases if the guys at Oculus hit their <$300 target price for the consumer version. Even if they sell it at $400 it is still much less than the headset display Sony developed and currently sells. If by some miracle Oculus can sell the Rift for $199 I'd expect they'd encounter mass adoption for the product.

OT: I'd much rather Sony adopt Rift support and help create a univerdal standard that woyld help ensure more games receiving 3d VR support industry wide. Also since the device can be used with other equipment creating greater value for the product, which would help in boosting the market. I'm not against Sony making their own, or competition for Oculus, but I'd like to see Sony's device include the ability it work with other devices much like their Pulse Elite headphones do. I love the thought of a VR future and just want to see all the players help it happen.

 

[syko de4d]

if Sony want that PC VR players buy the PS4 they should support the Oculus Rift. I dont want to use two different headsets for PC and PS4.

 

[vpance]

The 1080p/60fps requirements will kill the Rift for consoles I think. And a lot of the more mid-range/lower range gaming PCs. Like mine until I upgrade .

What requirement? They can just drop the resolution to run it in 3D just like they did this gen.

 

[sechsterangriff]

They already have some experience with their personal 3D viewer.

It's a great product for movies and game enthusiasts but it's not exactly what the Rift is trying to achieve.
The best scenario would be a joint venture where Sony would be mostly responsible for the hardware and the Oculus guys for the software. Or simply Sony licensing all the technology they need from Oculus and integrate it in their next version of the personal 3D viewer.

 

[Oppo]

On the one hand I want a standard.

On the other I think things are still very early and immature, and competition between different implementations would be a good to advance things.

However if we can have simple tools/libraries to let games talk to different implementations easily, to abstract the common ground, that would be good.

For Sony specifically I would like to them include Rift support in the PS4 SDK and to have their own kit too. And to have a wrapper library that exposes common functionality in each with one interface for devs. There'll be certain outputs and certain inputs common to every type of kit...have a standard for them, then have vendor specific extensions, I guess.

gofreak's got this covered so I just want you to imagine me standing behind him and nodding emphatically.

 

[DXLelouch153]

wait until its cost effective then begin the steps to ensure a VR gaming future
without the crazy dying in real life SAO stuff of course

 

[Tobor]

On the one hand I want a standard.

On the other I think things are still very early and immature, and competition between different implementations would be a good to advance things.

However if we can have simple tools/libraries to let games talk to different implementations easily, to abstract the common ground, that would be good.

For Sony specifically I would like to them include Rift support in the PS4 SDK and to have their own kit too. And to have a wrapper library that exposes common functionality in each with one interface for devs. There'll be certain outputs and certain inputs common to every type of kit...have a standard for them, then have vendor specific extensions, I guess.

This would work. Allow for competition and some standardization, and VR will flourish quickly.

 

[Rulp]

They should. I hope they do.

 

[Markadias]

I would 100% support the Oculus Rift... I would love to give it a go on the PS4.
A certain Mr. Yoshida tried it... And loved it.
Let's hope he helps bring it over.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I don't know if the new consoles will be able to deliver next gen graphics in a VR headset. Gut says probs not as long as the headset has to render two screens simultaneously. It will probably stay a PC thing for the next gen

 

[MadOdorMachine]

VR headset support will be a big issue for consoles due to the hude demands for resolution, FoV, framerate and response time. all things that console games traditionally smudge over in order to meet the requirement eye-candy.

even on PC with the low resolution oculus rift dev kits, we're seeing the need for beefy rigs just to power old engines and rudimentary tech demos at full clip.

for this reason, i suspect the rift will remain at best a sideshow on consoles; if it is supported, i imagine it will be a similarly compromised experience to 3D on PS3.

Couldn't they just scale back the graphics to support it though? I personally wouldn't mind PS2/GC level graphics as a sacrifice for immersion. In fact, I imagine something like Metroid Prime would blow most people away if it were in VR.

The other thing to consider is that consoles have an advantage over PC's when a specific performance is needed because they have locked down specs and they also can get away with motion controls more easily than PC. The big advantages to PC are the openness of the platform and power, but not everyone can meet the standards so that could hamper it's progress. It seems to be Sony is taking massive strides in this department though and on the surface, they appear to be the ones most set up for it. In any case, I hope one of the console manufacturers use a HMD soon. I haven't been as excited about gaming hardware since the N64/Playstation days.

Edit - I would actually like to see a HMD use wireless technology on consoles. I don't know if the tech is there to do it yet, but Wii U is already streaming games to a tablet. I also know PS4 can stream to Vita, so is it possible for it to stream 1080p/60fps to a HMD?

 

[Sidewinder]

Whatever they do, we need VR on next-gen consoles down the road. This is the next step in video gaming, so get to it Sony!

 

[LordCanti]

Couldn't they just scale back the graphics to support it though? I personally wouldn't mind PS2/GC level graphics as a sacrifice for immersion. In fact, I imagine something like Metroid Prime would blow most people away if it were in VR.

The other thing to consider is that consoles have an advantage over PC's when a specific performance is needed because they have locked down specs and they also can get away with motion controls more easily than PC. The big advantages to PC are the openness of the platform and power, but not everyone can meet the standards so that could hamper it's progress. It seems to be Sony is taking massive strides in this department though and on the surface, they appear to be the ones most set up for it. In any case, I hope one of the console manufacturers use a HMD soon. I haven't been as excited about gaming hardware since the N64/Playstation days.

The framerate really needs to be rock solid at 60 for the VR experience to work. There's no compromising on that front. I don't know if they could lower the resolution and just scale it to the resolution of the panel, but I do know that doing so would be sub-optimal at best (you really want to downsample from a higher resolution for the AA with a VR HMD).

I hope they support the consumer Rift, but I also hope that the machine is capable of making it a compelling experience.

Edit - I would actually like to see a HMD use wireless technology on consoles. I don't know if the tech is there to do it yet, but Wii U is already streaming games to a tablet. I also know PS4 can stream to Vita, so is it possible for it to stream 1080p/60fps to a HMD?

Latency would be the issue with wireless video (IIRC). Any disconnect between your head moving and the display updating is nauseating.

 

[Opiate]

It really depends on whether Sony can innovate in some way.

If they just make something called the Mockulus Shift that is just like the Oculus Rift in all but name, then I'd rather they not make it.

If, however, they come up with a good idea that significantly iterates on the Oculus Rift in a way that is similar but different and new, I'd rather they do that.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

Their track record with peripheral support is bad. Move was sent to die. With that said I guess support rift somehow.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The framerate really needs to be rock solid at 60 for the VR experience to work. There's no compromising on that front. I don't know if they could lower the resolution and just scale it to the resolution of the panel, but I do know that doing so would be sub-optimal at best (you really want to downsample from a higher resolution for the AA with a VR HMD).

That's what I'm saying. Couldn't they just scale back the eye candy to PS2/GC levels to achieve the 1080p/60fps. This would be acceptable to me, especially if they had hi-res textures.

Latency would be the issue with wireless video (IIRC). Any disconnect between your head moving and the display updating is nauseating.

I haven't been keeping up with the Wii U specs (BGAssassin or someone else would know more) but I know Nintendo worked on getting the latency down on the gamepad streaming. I don't know if latency is something Sony looked into with regard to PS4 streaming to Vita, but perhaps someone could shed some light on it. How much latency is acceptable and are next gen consoles able to meet the parameters? I know they weren't built for this in mind, but I'm curious if it's possible.

 

[Loofy]

Sony should work with Oculus and every other company to make a 'VR standard' where everyone can manufacturer their own version that works with the PS4/PC/XB1.

..lol.

 

[Gen X]

Given the financial woes Sony were going through not too long ago it wouldn't be wise to do their own thing. The risk would be too high.

 

[vivftp]

Hmmm, chances of Sony just buying Oculus?

 

[StoOgE]

I see no reason why Sony shouldn't. Or Microsoft for that matter.

I think the Rift is going to be something only hard core gamers every really get into, but that is a market worth having on your system.

Plus, after buying a Rift a PC gamer might be more apt to pick up a PS4 or Xbox One to use along with it.

 

[Canis lupus]

The point is that they've proven themselves incapable of designing and manufacturing an HMD with good ergonomics. I'm aware that the HMZ isn't a VR headset.

So you wouldn't trust Sony to make a better HMD just because of a product which serves a completely different purpose? I guess a startup out-engineered Sony then?

 

[Mokubba]

if Sony can make a better one for the PS4 then yes by all means

 

[LordCanti]

That's what I'm saying. Couldn't they just scale back the eye candy to PS2/GC levels to achieve the 1080p/60fps. This would be acceptable to me, especially if they had hi-res textures.


I haven't been keeping up with the Wii U specs (BGAssassin or someone else would know more) but I know Nintendo worked on getting the latency down on the gamepad streaming. I don't know if latency is something Sony looked into with regard to PS4 streaming to Vita, but perhaps someone could shed some light on it. How much latency is acceptable and are next gen consoles able to meet the parameters? I know they weren't built for this in mind, but I'm curious if it's possible.

The latency I'm speaking of is input latency. Basically, it's the time it takes for you to send an input to a computer, and then for the display to reflect whatever action you've performed. The PS4 should have no problem with that part of it over HDMI (for video) and USB (for the head tracking) connections. Going wireless would require latency as low as that, while also sending the tracking data somehow (again making sure that everything is in sync). I think if it could be done, Oculus would have a prototype to show off by now. If not for the tracking, than at least for the video, using one of the off the shelf wireless video techs out there.

I'm not an expert on scaling by any means, but going from a lower resolution to a higher one, you're generally blurring the image somewhat to compensate for the pixels not mapping 1:1. With a VR HMD like the Rift, you're magnifying the image a lot (which is how it works). So basically, you'd be blurring the image and then magnifying that blurred image in your scenario. I don't know that it would be a good experience. I could be wrong though, since the experience is great even at the low resolution of the devkit.

So you wouldn't trust Sony to make a better HMD just because of a product which serves a completely different purpose? I guess a startup out-engineered Sony then?

Yes. Sony released two heavy, uncomfortable HMD's without even realizing that overhead straps exist and that they can help the weight distribution. The method by which the display activates (a pad your head pushes on, if memory serves) is also counterproductive when you're trying to alleviate pressure points. The HMZ-T1/2 produces a nice image, but what's the point if the thing is horribly uncomfortable?

If that's their $800 HMD, I don't want to see their $300 (or less) HMD. No thank you. I realize that the Rift is less technically advanced (excluding the tracking) than an HMZ-T1/2, but not even adding in head straps despite all the complaints? Come on.

 

[YuShtink]

All the inner workings of it were created many decades ago, and Oculus VR cant patent that.

Sony [or anybody else] could create their own version...

Not entirely true. Oculus has their own proprietary motion sensor in the headset that is far superior to any others out there. Not that it couldn't be replicated. But that is kind of their golden egg right now. They also already have a super easy software integration made and distributed. If anyone wanted to copy the Rift it's possible, but they are well ahead of the game.