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[KalBalboa]

PS2 Classics emulator on PS3 managed to play most of the PS2 library just fine so eh, I don't think it would need as many tweaks and hacks as you think.

I mean, there were even PS1 Classics that had major technical issues post release that resulted it them being yanked. One of the Spyro titles ran in single digits on PS3 through emulation. A PS1 game, mind you.

It's not as simple as making one emulator and letting everything run wild.

 

[LukasTaves]

Selling an emulator? No thank you.

 

[MUnited83]

But you have no idea what kind or amount of work was done on a per-game basis to get them running without issues. The software backwards compatibility that came with the second wave of PS3s was decent but about 1/3 of the games had multiple emulation errors, some of them being game-breaking. That kind of solution isn't feasible and would just create more frustration than anything (which is why they dropped it)

Seems to not have much "per-game basis work" at all. Like I said, the PS2 Classics emulator on PS3 manages to play most of the library fine. And I don't mean just the games released a PS2 classics on PS3, I actually mean most of the library. People with CFWed PS3s can just inject their PS2 games into the Classics Emulator, and it plays most of the library just fine without the per-game work.

I mean, there were even PS1 Classics that had major technical issues post release that resulted it them being yanked. One of the Spyro titles ran in single digits on PS3 through emulation. A PS1 game, mind you.

It's not as simple as making one emulator and letting everything run wild.

Somehow the PS3 managed to do it. It literally plays most of the PS2 library fine.

 

[Deadpool_X]

Oh, is this all they have to do?

Look, Sony has shown they have 0 interest in BC of any kind. You can beg all you want, but they think anyone who wants to play an older game

Spoiler

without paying them for streaming

is an idiot.

 

[Primethius]

You lost Sony at the "single fee" line

.

As if Sony's capable of putting out a PS2 on PS4 feature that isn't trash.

 

[Synth]

Selling an emulator? No thank you.

Honestly, I'd be all for it. Whilst I would obviously prefer that they just do it for free where possible, I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra on top of the console's base cost (either as a more expensive hardware SKU, or for a software solution) to not have to worry about rebuying my games library itself. Even MS' current XB1 solution, as great as it is leaves me aware that a lot of games I'd like to bring forward simple never will due to licensing issues.

 

[cyba89]

I'm trying hard not to just shitpost with a simple lol, but....

Lol


No seriously, this sounds great for me and you, but not for Sony. If I were them I wouldn't do it.
Also, this might be a dream situation for you collectors out there but most people don't own PS2 discs anymore and buying used from Amazon and EBay is a bigger money sink than just buying them from Sony. Sure, you can buy Vice City for $5, but something like Shadow Hearts or Xenosaga 3? Like, all the good games people really want? The sole existence for this feature.
Fuck that.

Why not make it possible to use the old retail versions AND offer them digital on the store, just like Xbox? Everybody wins.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Single 19.99 price yes.
With trophy support as well, never going to happen, who's going to pay the people to patch all those games? Because the 19.99 won't cover it.

 

[pretty done]

I'm always amazed at how many people can try to defend Sony and Nintendo's complete inability to properly release old games.

 

[Jumeira]

Should be free OP. Sony could make money from the BC store . Where at a point where people have a greater urge to play older games then ever before, especially when so many beloved franchises are not being continued, or discussing them online generates a lot of buzz. BC seems like a easy way to make some extra money.

 

[Arklite]

Emulation with tested HD AND 4k upgrades? You're dreaming hard, and I'm not sure about licensing. Emulators aren't instant or even reliable solutions without dedicated r&d teams.

 

[Strangelove77]

Why not make it possible to use the old retail versions AND offer them digital on the store, just like Xbox? Everybody wins.

That'd be ideal. But it's just not going to happen. I'd shit myself if I woke up on a Tuesday, went to the PSN store and saw Shadow Hearts Covenant for $10.
It'd think I was dreaming.

 

[cftrooper]

I just wanna play the Ratchet and Sly trilogies again... and Burnout 3.

The PS3 versions of the old Ratchet games have too many bugs added in.

 

[Synth]

Single 19.99 price yes.
With trophy support as well, never going to happen, who's going to pay the people to patch all those games? Because the 19.99 won't cover it.

Emulation with tested HD AND 4k upgrades? You're dreaming hard, and I'm not sure about licensing. Emulators aren't instant or even reliable solutions without dedicated r&d teams.

Read the OP people.

Charge for premium / standalone titles like you are doing already and add those titles to a classic console app library. You only need to pay for individual titles if you want trophies, HD and possibly 4K resolutions:

Enhanced games would be sold in the same manner they are today. OP's suggestion would be for those that don't care about the lack of trophies and/or graphical upgrades, and just want access to the rest of their library.

 

[warheat]

No thanks, it should be free in the first place.

 

[AdamT]

If this were part of PS+, not only would it make the service actually valuable, but they would sell far more subscriptions.

Edit: Please ditch the trophy support and whatever else you need to release the games on a some-what frequent schedule, too.

 

[MarkMclovin]

If only it were as easy as that.

 

[Ateron]

Wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of

A) selling ps2 classics to people who already own them but have no other choice (free money!)

B) Their entire PSNow service?

This would be amazing and I'm sure they could implement this if they wanted, but I'd assume they think this wouldn't be in their best interests so they decide to fuck the consumer. MS doesn't have a paid service for old games, hence why they have no problems giving us BC. I dunno if they would do it if they had the same service as Sony does. As for ps3 emulation, that would be incredibly difficult to attain with the differences in arquitecture but I guess that's a whole different subject.

It would be amazing for us, but at the end of the day they care more about selling remastered versions of their games then just let us play what we already payed for. As I no longer own a ps2 ou ps3 (both died on me even though they lasted many years)

I currently have no way to play old gtas, Devil May Cry 3, FFX, FF XII, SoTC, MGS2 and 3, Dark Souls 1..And guess what, some of these are getting remasters just so we have to buy it again, gtas being sold as if they were new, etc. It sucks, no apologies for this behaviour, but it's their call and they seem to be pretty confortable up there in the top, so they don't give a damn, ;/

 

[KalBalboa]

Somehow the PS3 managed to do it. It literally plays most of the PS2 library fine.

The launch $499/599 PS3 literally had a PS2 inside of it. The second revision had a few components too.

After that, it was a case by case basis for the PS2 and PS1 Classics.

 

[momshotdad]

Except Xbox One does it for free and would be a PR nightmare if they charged for it.

 

[KalBalboa]

Except Xbox One does it for free and would be a PR nightmare if they charged for it.

That too.

 

[Vashetti]

Wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of

A) selling ps2 classics to people who already own them but have no other choice (free money!)

B) Their entire PSNow service?

This would be amazing and I'm sure they could implement this if they wanted, but I'd assume they think this wouldn't be in their best interests so they decide to fuck the consumer. MS doesn't have a paid service for old games, hence why they have no problems giving us BC. I dunno if they would do it if they had the same service as Sony does. As for ps3 emulation, that would be incredibly difficult to attain with the differences in arquitecture but I guess that's a whole different subject.

It would be amazing for us, but at the end of the day they care more about selling remastered versions of their games then just let us play what we already payed for. As I no longer own a ps2 ou ps3 (both died on me even though they lasted many years)

I currently have no way to play old gtas, Devil May Cry 3, FFX, FF XII, SoTC, MGS2 and 3, Dark Souls 1..And guess what, some of these are getting remasters just so we have to buy it again, gtas being sold as if they were new, etc. It sucks, no apologies for this behaviour, but it's their call and they seem to be pretty confortable up there in the top, so they don't give a damn, ;/

Why do people keep bringing up PSNow?

PS Now doesn't feature PS1 or PS2 games, only PS3 games (and soon PS4).

PS Now is not a backwards compatibility solution and Sony has never claimed it to be.

It's a total waste of bandwidth to stream you a PS1 or PS2 game. You'd far, far exceed the size of the actual game by streaming hours and hours of video and audio of it to your system.

Way better for PS1 and PS2 games to sell you a one-time download that actually runs on your system. It's not cost-effective to stream these (comparatively) small in filesize games.

 

[KalBalboa]

Why do people keep bringing up PSNow?

PS Now doesn't feature PS1 or PS2 games, only PS3 games (and soon PS4).

PS Now is not a backwards compatibility solution and Sony has never claimed it to be.

It's a total waste of bandwidth to stream you a PS1 or PS2 game. You'd far, far exceed the size of the actual game by streaming hours and hours of video and audio of it to your system.

Way better for PS1 and PS2 games to sell you a one-time download that actually runs on your system. It's not cost-effective to stream these (comparatively) small in filesize games.

I mean, it lets you play PS3 on PS4. It fits a certain BC bill.

 

[Ateron]

Why do people keep bringing up PSNow?

PS Now doesn't feature PS1 or PS2 games, only PS3 games (and soon PS4).

PS Now is not a backwards compatibility solution and Sony has never claimed it to be.

It's a total waste of bandwidth to stream you a PS1 or PS2 game. You'd far, far exceed the size of the actual game by streaming hours and hours of video and audio of it to your system.

Way better for PS1 and PS2 games to sell you a one-time download that actually runs on your system. It's not cost-effective to stream these (comparatively) small in filesize games.

I stand corrected then. I was under the impression that it was sort of a band aid for all kinds of BC, including ps2 as well ps3.

 

[pretty done]

The launch PS3 literally had a PS2 inside of it. The second revision had a few components too.

After that, it was a case by case basis for the PS2 and PS1 Classics.

False. Every PS3 can play PS1 discs. They only removed PS2 BC in the later models.

And the PS2 emulator on PS3 even plays games fine that had errors on PCSX2 like SMT DDS and Nocturne. I'm sure the PS2 on PS3 lineup will become available on PS4 once Sony finds a way to charge more money for them while doing the least amount of work possible.

 

[Poster#1]

Won't happen.

Sony wants to sell you remasters.

.

 

[fireflame]

Then again people can vote with wallets and not buy remasters.

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

They can't charge because Microsoft isn't charging, and they'd look like idiots.

 

[Synth]

The launch PS3 literally had a PS2 inside of it. The second revision had a few components too.

After that, it was a case by case basis for the PS2 and PS1 Classics.

It was only "case by case" because the removed the built-in software emulator in order to make people rebuy the games digitally instead of using their already owned discs. That emulation when used on a custom firmware PS3 will run pretty much every PS2 game no less competently than the stuff they were selling individually (and there were some far from perfect running games being sold piecemeal like Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution).

Except Xbox One does it for free and would be a PR nightmare if they charged for it.

It's been a PR nightmare as it is. In this proposed scenario they can actually attribute some worth to it beyond what MS is doing, as you'd be able to play a lot of games that can never be redistributed. In the XB1 BC thread there are a lot of games that many of us would like to see, but have resigned ourselves to never actually seeing happen.. like Outrun Online Arcade, because the Ferrari license, or Too Human because of the legal mess surrounding it. A standalone PS2 emulator would allow people play Outrun 2 Coast to Coast, as it wouldn't need to be redistributed.

 

[Ateron]

Just hope they don't get any funny ideas and when ps5 comes out eventually it will be BC with AT LEAST ps4 games. They should be able to brute force ps3 games as well, so let's see if this greed is here to stay or not.

This is one of the things where Sony should definitely be taking a page from MS book

 

[Head.spawn]

I can say this, this is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much. That, and I was at a party where people were playing Gran Turismo recently they had PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games, and the PS1 and the PS2 games, they looked ancient, like why would anybody play this?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Why do people keep bringing up PSNow?

PS Now doesn't feature PS1 or PS2 games, only PS3 games (and soon PS4).

PS Now is not a backwards compatibility solution and Sony has never claimed it to be.

It's a total waste of bandwidth to stream you a PS1 or PS2 game. You'd far, far exceed the size of the actual game by streaming hours and hours of video and audio of it to your system.

Way better for PS1 and PS2 games to sell you a one-time download that actually runs on your system. It's not cost-effective to stream these (comparatively) small in filesize games.

It lets you play PS3 games on your PS4. They don't have to call it backwards compatibility "solution", it just is one.

 

[WaterAstro]

And they would have to spend tons of money making that happen.

I'd rather have new games.

 

[Synth]

Then again people can vote with wallets and not buy remasters.

You can't actually vote decisively with your wallets when the option you want to vote for doesn't exist. By not buying any remasters, Sony could simply reason that people don't want to play older games (which seems to be what they are taking from it, based on recent comments). The only people that are actually able to cast a meaningful vote currently are those the do want remasters.

And they would have to spend tons of money making that happen.

I'd rather have new games.

This wouldn't eat into the development of new games...

Do you think that's what the current PS2onPS4 (or VC) games are doing? And PS2onPS4 requires ongoing work for each title, this would have a logical endpoint where the emulator is just "done".

 

[chronic_archaic]

The launch $499/599 PS3 literally had a PS2 inside of it. The second revision had a few components too.

After that, it was a case by case basis for the PS2 and PS1 Classics.

PS2 emulation is very, very good on PS3, as is PS1 emulation. A dozen games not working out of thousands isn't a reason to stop BC at all.

 

[MUnited83]

The launch $499/599 PS3 literally had a PS2 inside of it. The second revision had a few components too.

After that, it was a case by case basis for the PS2 and PS1 Classics.

I'm talking specifically about the PS2 Classics Emulator that can be used in every PS3 in the world with the same results. You can inject games into the emulator and most of them play fine despite Sony never making a case by case improvement to them.

 

[DESTROYA]

sony is too greedy to ever do anything like this or the way xbox does BC.

lol.....WAHT!
Can you please explain because this makes absolutely no sense to me.
You would think the opposite if they can make money on it.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

They could give you a warning that in rare cases, emulated games may not work perfectly.

 

[butman]

All Virtual Consoles should be like Netflix

I would pay $50 a year for all regions PS2 games VC subscription. No streaming.

 

[Synth]

lol.....WAHT!
Can you please explain because this makes absolutely no sense to me.
You would think the opposite if they can make money on it.

They'd likely assume (and probably correctly) that there's more money to be made by reselling games individually to people. Offering a standalone emulator for $20 may well turn out to be enough for a large percentage of buyers that are otherwise paying $10-$20 per re-released title.

 

[KnightimeX_Legacy]

This is cool but finding ps2 games is difficult and now expensive.
They need to 1080p and release more ps2 digital games.

 

[Synth]

This is cool but finding ps2 games is difficult and now expensive.
They need to 1080p and release more ps2 digital games.

PS2 games are super easy to find, and usually very cheap.

For example, I used Outrun 2 as an example above of a game many would like to see BC on Xbox, but likely never will be due to licenses. Amazon UK currently has 32 copies offered starting from £2. Most PS2 games can be found far cheaper than they would likely cost as a re-release... and if you want the 1080p PS2 release, then OP is suggesting Sony continue to offer those anyway (like like how 360 BC doesn't stop XB1 remasters of some of the same games existing).

 

[DESTROYA]

They'd likely assume (and probably correctly) that there's more money to be made by reselling games individually to people. Offering a standalone emulator for $20 may well turn out to be enough for a large percentage of buyers that are otherwise paying $10-$20 per re-released title.

I get that part but then again I can see the point of selling a emulator and PS2 games for $5-$10 a pop digitally would reach a bigger audience for all PS2 games then just HD remakes.

 

[KalBalboa]

It was only "case by case" because the removed the built-in software emulator in order to make people rebuy the games digitally instead of using their already owned discs.

There was more to it than that.

False. Every PS3 can play PS1 discs. They only removed PS2 BC in the later models.

Not "False," you simply misunderstood my post. I never debated PS1 games working on PS3s, but I did mention that some PS1 games and Classics flat-out broke via the emulator approach. In the end, it wasn't worth it for some publishers to go in and manually make fixes for some PSone titles.

The PS2 BC was removed initially because the hardware necessary to make it worthwhile was too costly. They had to get the PS3 down from $499/599 to $299 as quickly as possible. The hacked-in emulator ability was never exactly a catch-all solution, either.

I love your avatar.

I'm talking specifically about the PS2 Classics Emulator that can be used in every PS3 in the world with the same results. You can inject games into the emulator and most of them play fine despite Sony never making a case by case improvement to them.

This is the issue though- it's not "the same results." A lot of PS2 titles didn't run so hot.

I hope they're seeing the fuss over backwards compatibility growing and wising up. The PS2 classics are generally 30%-50% too expensive, in my opinion, but they seem to go on flash sales enough on the regular that I think Sony knows this? Why, oh why, there are no options for PS1 Classics on PS4 baffles the shit out of me.

 

[Synth]

I get that part but then again I can see the point of selling a emulator and PS2 games for $5-$10 a pop digitally would reach a bigger audience for all PS2 games then just HD remakes.

Yea, it'd likely reach a bigger audience, but it depends how much bigger really. Let's say it's twice as large an audience, if the current audience buys even 2 games each, then they stand to make more money that way. If you're like me and spent multiple hundreds rebuying PS1 and PS2 games digitally (last gen... because I stupidly assumed they wouldn't recharge for games that you already have digitally tied to your PSN), then selling me a $20 emulator instead isn't very appealing.

 

[Synth]

There was more to it than that.

No, I said "software emulator". The hardware BC you can make a cost argument for. The software emulator didn't add any cost to each console, and so there's no reason to remove it, beyond it driving people to purchasing the same games digitally

This is the issue though- it's not "the same results." A lot of PS2 titles didn't run so hot.

By "same results" I assume he means as the emulation used for PS2 Classics on PS3. They're using a global emulator, just shipped with the game itself. Quality control is not why the standalone emulator was pulled, because the PS2 Classics they were selling individually had the same sorts of problems also.

 

[KalBalboa]

No, I said "software emulator". The hardware BC you can make a cost argument for. The software emulator didn't add any cost to each console, and so there's no reason to remove it, beyond it driving people to purchasing the same games digitally.

Are you referring to the 80gb PS3 model that had an inferior library of backwards compatibility? Because I remember trying to play the Jak games on mine and them running like hot trash.

By "same results" I assume he means as the emulation used for PS2 Classics on PS3. They're using a global emulator, just shipped with the game itself. Quality control is not why the standalone emulator was pulled, because the PS2 Classics they were selling individually had the same sorts of problems also.

It's almost like PS2 emulation on PS3 was a difficult shit-show.

 

[ethomaz]

Good thing OP had you covered then in their post that you obviously paid attention to.

No.

He wants Sony working in two emulator profiles (more work, less titles) and trophies, HD features being a DLC.

I prefer how it is today.

 

[Keihart]

just make the ps2 classics i bought on ps3 work on ps4, there is no reason for those games to be locked away if there is already emulation on the platform. Silly greedy Sony.

 

[th4tguy]

This is honestly not a bad idea but not as good as simply providing a free emulator and selling digital copies of ps2 games like they did with PS3. You want as small of a barrier of entry as possible for people to start giving you money.