Support NeoGAF

[TheDinoman]

Whenever Nintendo finds a gimmick to base it around, we'll likely get a new WW game.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Seeing Bandanna Dee over Inklings makes me wonder if we can really trust japan. I kind of like how Sakurai doesn't exactly listen to polls.

Yeah, Sakurai probably just checked out the list and see what he could see how unique they would be and how they would works in the game. If he couldn't then he probably going to dismiss them, like he did with Pac MAN and Villager during Brawl.

Given how comparatively niche he is nowadays I think it still says a lot K. Rool got a Mii Costume over a ton of way bigger characters.

Unless support dies down if the next Smash (whether NX is a proper sequel/half-quel or there's a future Smash 5) if the roster goes more fan-service-y/cultish with its picks I could see him, Ashley, Geno and those types of characters who have a ton of demand but aren't necessarily major characters anymore get a proper shot at being playable.

I think upcoming Smash that are going to planned to get new contents, the choices would be more fan service since we are running out of logical choices for the roster, which is pretty much Inkling, Rhythm Heaven and few characters.

I think each of those three is a little distinct in their odds, but yeah. Geno is the closest one to being a massive deal, and that's pretty much entirely because of the weird cult demand for him starting in Brawl.

Yeah, I was surprised how easily Sakurai confessed that Geno was considered to be in the game twice, Brawl and Smash 4. Apparently, he really wanted to make him playable character. That and Geno being Mii Costume made me happy tho so I don't really ask that much tho.

Honestly, it doesn't bodied very well for Geno's inclusion in the future since he was being open about it. The reason why I think he may not have a chance to become playable because he said that he don't want to mention some characters in the articles or interviews because they might make their appearance in upcoming smash in the future.

 

[PushDustIn]

I still question the validity of that "poll"

It wasn't even a poll but just seeing how many times a name popped up in social media and given points based on a subjective criteria. It gets linked way too many times and too often with how little credibility it potentially has. I know Source Gaming is all about credibility but I will never agree with the existence of that poll :X

What's worse is if you read the article it implies full knowledge the poll isn't going to be accurate but the poll is titled as if they don't and kind of contradicts the article.



Regarding your actual post, the power of the ballot depends on how early development started.

If it REALLY began at that smash 6 listing it would probably have no input and its effect would primarily be for smash 6/7/whatever you want to call it.

If development and character selection is more recent you can bet your ass the ballot will have a pretty big effect. No reason not to use all of that data they collected and only use it on a single character.

I agree with you. People put way too much faith in online polling. I've even argued against it in the past (title is something like "Dangers of Online Polling" and it's linked in the Perception of Smash DLC in Japan, redux). As for the title, I included "Perception" because that's basically what I did. I look at what characters were talked about the most and then ranked them on a point system. I tried hard to be accurate with the title :X

I do polling because a lot of people request it, and I just approach it as something for fun. I would like to point out that my poll was one of the only fan polls to have both Cloud and Bayonetta. Sakurai also didn't rank Bayonetta in Japan which probably means she wasn't top ten. Cloud did get the #1 FF character. I just chalk it up as a coincidence, but it shows how little meaning fan polls have in general.

Sakurai has stated that he has to figure out what people want even though they don't outright request it. He's compared it to a chef in a restaurant understanding what his customers want to eat (from the live stream we translated).

The online Smash community is much smaller than the whole Smash community, and Sakurai needs to consider everyone. He still considered the online community though-- that's why we got Omega Stages, and characters like Shulk and Megaman (both were very popular at the end of Brawl speculation it seems). Also, Geno was seriously considered for Brawl.

I find it kind of funny that Black Mage...one of the most "requested" characters from Square has never been mentioned by Sakurai. When we did individual character polling, Cloud was over 100 spots below Black Mage.

For the next game, I'd still expect a mixture of both generally popular characters and some characters requested online. Inkling, K Rool, and Wolf would be a perfect balance if we were to only get three characters...But I'd still expect more 3RD party characters as Sakurai does seem to throughly enjoy working on characters from different properties.

 

[Golnei]

I tried the texture ingame with the Dark Suit's visor and glowing chest bits, and I think that kind of works better than just the original green in terms of breaking up the colour scheme.

Also, I attempted a Cloud colour based on the Kingdom Hearts Terra as well, I don't actually think it turned out too badly.

 

[Zebei]

I tried the texture ingame with the Dark Suit's visor and glowing chest bits, and I think that kind of works better than just the original green in terms of breaking up the colour scheme.


Also, I attempted a Cloud colour based on the Kingdom Hearts Terra as well, I don't actually think it turned out too badly.

No too shabby. Love the Terra-nort alt

Spoiler

Just need to have Rage Awakened modded in to go with it

 

[PK Gaming]

1) RobIN

2) Don't fight Donkey Kong

 

[balladofwindfishes]

1) RobIN

2) Don't fight Donkey Kong

Now we know the real reason Wolf was cut.

 

[TheDinoman]

That guy has a disturbingly accurate Charles Martinet impression.

 

[BGBW]

2) Don't fight Donkey Kong

 

[Neoxon]

For the next game, I'd still expect a mixture of both generally popular characters and some characters requested online. Inkling, K Rool, and Wolf would be a perfect balance if we were to only get three characters...But I'd still expect more 3RD party characters as Sakurai does seem to throughly enjoy working on characters from different properties.

You'd think that they would add more than 3 newcomers for Smash 5.....unless they're starting from scratch again & are focused on bringing everyone from Smash 4 back.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

You'd think that they would add more than 3 newcomers for Smash 5.....unless they're starting from scratch again & are focused on bringing everyone from Smash 4 back.

I think he more meant that those three represent a nice balance of what he described, not that he thinks we'll only get three newcomers.

 

[BGBW]

So gave Smash mods a go, but just music for now.

Will be great when we can add our own slots because there's not too many tracks I want to replace (or else I'll be limited to Windy Hills lol) and the easy ability to correct the name displayed in game. Well it's still early days and hell, at least modding the PAL version is as easy as the NTSC version unlike with Brawl where I basically had to teach myself everything.

 

[Golnei]

I managed to manually convert the individual Codename STEAM fanfares for the Fire Emblem characters, I didn't realise there was an offline utility already available. If anyone else happened to want them, they're here.

So gave Smash mods a go, but just music for now.

Will be great when we can add our own slots because there's not too many tracks I want to replace (or else I'll be limited to Windy Hills lol) and the easy ability to correct the name displayed in game. Well it's still early days and hell, at least modding the PAL version is as easy as the NTSC version unlike with Brawl where I basically had to teach myself everything.

All the compatibility issues normal mods had with the PAL version of Brawl were continually frustrating, and that's before going into how Project M couldn't function on actual PAL copies at all. This is definitely a lot easier.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I tried the texture ingame with the Dark Suit's visor and glowing chest bits, and I think that kind of works better than just the original green in terms of breaking up the colour scheme.


Also, I attempted a Cloud colour based on the Kingdom Hearts Terra as well, I don't actually think it turned out too badly.

Has someone tried Zach yet?

 

[Golnei]

Has someone tried Zach yet?

Yes, and it's not just a texture.

 

[PushDustIn]

You'd think that they would add more than 3 newcomers for Smash 5.....unless they're starting from scratch again & are focused on bringing everyone from Smash 4 back.

I'm going to follow the same mantra that I took with Smash DLC. "hope for more but expect less". Considering: how long characters take to develop, the fact that we have no idea if they even started, and how many people would work on the project (are we talking main game team size? DLC team size?)...I'm going to keep my expectations low for now.

 

[TheDinoman]

I'm going to follow the same mantra that I took with Smash DLC. "hope for more but expect less". Considering: how long characters take to develop, the fact that we have no idea if they even started, and how many people would work on the project (are we talking main game team size? DLC team size?)...I'm going to keep my expectations low for now.

To be fair, I myself didn't really expect to get as many DLC characters as we got, let alone getting more newcomers than we did veterans. I always figured we'd just get like four or five total, with only 1-2 newcomers, so I was pleasantly surprised that we managed to get seven with four of them being completely brand new.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Really, I'm just expecting a couple bonuses in the form of fan-favorite 3DS stages or them getting around to fixing more of the minor complaints (for example, a reset button in Event Mode).

 

[Neoxon]

I'm going to follow the same mantra that I took with Smash DLC. "hope for more but expect less". Considering: how long characters take to develop, the fact that we have no idea if they even started, and how many people would work on the project (are we talking main game team size? DLC team size?)...I'm going to keep my expectations low for now.

We're still talking about Smash 5, right?

 

[IntelliHeath]

We're still talking about Smash 5, right?

Uh, Why do you really care about which version we are talking about? He's talking about upcoming Smash (Smash NX, Smash 5 or Smash Port) whatever we have a name for upcoming Smash which is slated to be out for Nintendo NX next year.

Why would we want to talk about Smash that aren't going to happens for like other 5-6 years.To be honest, it's even harder to discuss about Super Smash Bros. 6 because Nintendo's landscape could change anytime at whim depend on video game industry and future of video gaming.

 

[Neoxon]

Uh, Why do you really care about which version we are talking about? He's talking about upcoming Smash (Smash NX, Smash 5 or Smash Port. whatever people are talking about)

Why would we want to talk about Smash that aren't going to happens for like other 5-6 years.

Because it impacts the likelihood of new characters. If it's a Smash 4 port, of course I'd expect zero new characters. Likewise, newbies are to be expected in a brand new, non-port Smash sequel game.

 

[Already Torn]

Whenever Nintendo finds a gimmick to base it around, we'll likely get a new WW game.

I'm playing through all the old WarioWare games now. If I had to chose between new Rhythm Heavens and new WarioWares, I'd be fine if we never got the latter. I wonder if Nintendo's mostly moved on too?

Problem could be that I played this game to death of course, but the series was already headed downhill with Smooth Moves...

 

[IntelliHeath]

Because it impacts the likelihood of new characters. If it's a Smash 4 port, of course I'd expect zero new characters. Likewise, newbies are to be expected in a brand new, non-port Smash sequel game.

Are you saying that Smash Port shouldn't have newcomers at all?

 

[Roo]

Because it impacts the likelihood of new characters. If it's a Smash 4 port, of course I'd expect zero new characters. Likewise, newbies are to be expected in a brand new, non-port Smash sequel game.

Newbies like Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta happened as mere DLC.
High profile characters you'd expect to see in a "non-port" smash sequel (or not as additional content for that matter)

Of all things, a port for their next console would make sense to have new characters so people can jump in.

The image and model of Smash you had prior to this gen won't work anymore.
If Nintendo feels like adding new character to a simple port then they'll do it.

edit: for all we know, there probably won't be a new Smash again. Maybe they'll use Smash NX (Wii U) as a platform with constant updates and such throughout the entire gen.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Smash Mugen

 

[Zebei]

for all we know, there probably won't be a new Smash again.

The saddest sentence i've read in this entire thread

 

[Neoxon]

Are you saying that Smash Port shouldn't have newcomers at all?

No, but new characters aren't as expected of a port as they would be for a brand new installment of the Smash franchise.

Newbies like Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta happened as mere DLC.
High profile characters you'd expect to see in a "non-port" smash sequel (or not as additional content for that matter)

Of all things, a port for their next console would make sense to have new characters so people can jump in.

The image and model of Smash you had prior to this gen won't work anymore.
If Nintendo feels like adding new character to a simple port then they'll do it.

edit: for all we know, there probably won't be a new Smash again. Maybe they'll use Smash NX (Wii U) as a platform with constant updates and such throughout the entire gen.

There will eventually be a need for a new Smash game. Regardless of how much life Nintendo & Bandai Namco try to pump into Smash 4, it will grow stale at some point.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Are you saying that Smash Port shouldn't have newcomers at all?

Yeah, I don't get that mindset. I mean, I can see there being no new characters under some scenarios. But there's so much about this that we don't know yet. Like just off the top of my head, here's three scenarios.

1.) There is backwards compatibility. I think significant content is going to be needed to make the upgrade worthwhile. Otherwise, what's the point? Minor graphical upgrades? Without the allure of some new characters and stages, I don't know what you're going to do to entice current owners to upgrade or NX owners who don't already own Smash to not simply buy the Wii U version on the cheap and call it a day.

2.) There isn't backwards compatibility and they mean to charge $60 for it. In this scenario I still think you need significant new content. I mean, sure, "Smash 4 Complete" with all DLC is a relatively decent value, but this isn't the typical timeline of releasing the Game of the Year edition a year after the vanilla game comes out. Smash 4 is going to be 2 and a half years old at a bare minimum assuming it's a launch title and that NX does indeed launch at March. If it's simply a "launch window" title, it may be 3 years old at that point. Trotting out the definitive Game of the Year edition isn't going to be good enough to charge full price in my opinion.

3.) There isn't backwards compatibility and they mean to target this in the $30-$40 MSRP range. In this case I wouldn't expect much. The absolute best I would anticipate would just be minor graphical upgrades and the inclusion of all modes and stages across the 3DS and Wii U versions.

 

[Already Torn]

I really hope we at least get the Ice Climbers, but I'm not letting myself get excited for this. At most I'm expecting the 3DS stages, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't even get that (or at least not all of them. They'll leave out Magicant).

 

[BGBW]

Really, I'm just expecting a couple bonuses in the form of fan-favorite 3DS stages or them getting around to fixing more of the minor complaints (for example, a reset button in Event Mode).

Battlefield and Final Destination.

 

[Roo]

There will eventually be a need for a new Smash game. Regardless of how much life Nintendo & Bandai Namco try to pump into Smash 4, it will grow stale at some point.

I never said there wouldn't be a new Smash ever again tho.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

No, but new characters aren't as expected of a port as they would be for a brand new installment of the Smash franchise.


There will eventually be a need for a new Smash game. Regardless of how much life Nintendo & Bandai Namco try to pump into Smash 4, it will grow stale at some point.

Sorry to say, but I think your fear (?) of this being Smash 5 (or even 4.5) comes from dissatisfactions you have with Smash 4's gameplay. Which is fine.

Yes, Smash 5 has to exist. However, Smash 5 does not HAVE to be a "start all over from the ground up" deal. What's so hard to understand about how appealing an idea it is to get Smash 5 made for NX of the base of Smash 4? As Steve has pointed out multiple times, this being a straight port with a negligible amount of new content only makes sense if it's going to be a bargain title. Which I don't think will be the case.

It may be time to ready yourself for the possibility of Smash NX more or less being Smash 5. Sakurai is going to have to make it either way, so why would he start all over again in the middle of the NX's lifespan?

I'm with Heath in that I'm managing my expectations on the matter, but this all smells too fishy to be a straight port. And as Heath has pointed out, Sakurai wouldn't half ass it. If he has the opportunity to include content and stuff that he couldn't in Smash 4, he seems like the kind of dev who'd take this opportunity to go all out.

I know I would personally be a bit confused by a 100% straight port. And it wouldn't sell me on a copy of the port, or an NX.

 

[PK Gaming]

I would be very surprised if there aren't any newcomers in NX Smash

They need to incentivize people have it on the 3DS/Wii U buy it again and new characters (and stages) are the perfect way of doing that

 

[BGBW]

Just think of it as an iterative version like Mario Party 4 -> 5.

 

[Ryce]

DLC makes the game feel newer than it actually is, but Smash 4 will be two-and-a-half years old when NX launches in March. An enhanced version with additional content seems appropriate to me.

 

[jnWake]

Smash 4 has sold about 12 million copies on 3DS/Wii U. If they make a port they simply can't lose that audience (which mind you is similar to both Melee and Brawl) so it's only logical to add new meaningful content.

I understand that people like to set low expectations to avoid disappointment but let's at least try to use logic when arguing instead of "Lol it's Nintendo".

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The ROI on new characters seems pretty high. It'd make sense to throw a handful of new characters, since that's why people buy new Smash Bros games

 

[Shamrock7r]

I want another NeoGAF tourney. I am going to try and put one together in a few weeks.

 

[Gleethor]

Smash NX that uses smash 4 as a base and builds off of that for multiple years sounds great. It's like SFV, except built on top of a full game and then some instead of being a third of one.

 

[Neoxon]

Sorry to say, but I think your fear (?) of this being Smash 5 (or even 4.5) comes from dissatisfactions you have with Smash 4's gameplay. Which is fine.

Yes, Smash 5 has to exist. However, Smash 5 does not HAVE to be a "start all over from the ground up" deal. What's so hard to understand about how appealing an idea it is to get Smash 5 made for NX of the base of Smash 4? As Steve has pointed out multiple times, this being a straight port with a negligible amount of new content only makes sense if it's going to be a bargain title. Which I don't think will be the case.

It may be time to ready yourself for the possibility of Smash NX more or less being Smash 5. Sakurai is going to have to make it either way, so why would he start all over again in the middle of the NX's lifespan?

I'm with Heath in that I'm managing my expectations on the matter, but this all smells too fishy to be a straight port. And as Heath has pointed out, Sakurai wouldn't half ass it. If he has the opportunity to include content and stuff that he couldn't in Smash 4, he seems like the kind of dev who'd take this opportunity to go all out.

I know I would personally be a bit confused by a 100% straight port. And it wouldn't sell me on a copy of the port, or an NX.

But that's just it, Sakurai may not even be involved with the port if there's little-to-no content added. And even if he is (given the scenario mentioned panning), Sakurai would likely take an advisory role.

Smash 4 has sold about 12 million copies on 3DS/Wii U. If they make a port they simply can't lose that audience (which mind you is similar to both Melee and Brawl) so it's only logical to add new meaningful content.

I understand that people like to set low expectations to avoid disappointment but let's at least try to use logic when arguing instead of "Lol it's Nintendo".

Yes, but how many of those people bought the Wii U version?

Smash NX that uses smash 4 as a base and builds off of that for multiple years sounds great. It's like SFV, except built on top of a full game and then some instead of being a third of one.

But the thing is, Street Fighter V's gameplay is fantastic & is right up there with the best of its franchise (those games being Super Turbo & Third Strike). On top of that, Street Fighter V was made with updates 5+ years down the road in mind. The same cannot be said about Smash 4 on either front. While yes, Smash 4 did fix many of the glaring issues of Brawl, it's still too fundamentally close to Brawl from a gameplay standpoint. And while yes, attendance for Smash 4 tournaments have held up, the views for Smash 4 majors aren't up there with Street Fighter V or Melee. There's a reason why Smash 4 Grand Finals ended up being relegated to a Saturday at the usual venue for EVO rather than the huge arena like Melee.

 

[Kyzer]

I just hope they have enough time to give the graphics a kick along with adding some meaningful content, I won't be really satisfied with Smash 4 Ultra Settings

 

[Green Mamba]

Yes, but how many of those people bought the Wii U version?

4.8 million people have bought the Wii U version, which isn't huge compared to the rest of the series but that's not an audience you want to just cut out as an acceptable loss of people who may not be interested in your release.

 

[Neoxon]

4.8 million people have bought the Wii U version, which isn't huge compared to the rest of the series but that's not an audience you want to just cut out as an acceptable loss of people who may not be interested in your release.

If a crap-ton of people bought the PS4 version of USFIV, then it shouldn't really be as big of an issue as you'd think.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

But that's just it, Sakurai may not even be involved with the port if there's little-to-no content added. And even if he is (given the scenario mentioned panning), Sakurai would likely take an advisory role.


Yes, but how many of those people bought the Wii U version?


But the thing is, Street Fighter V's gameplay is fantastic & is right up there with the best of its franchise (those games being Super Turbo & Third Strike). On top of that, Street Fighter V was made with updates 5+ years down the road in mind. The same cannot be said about Smash 4 on either front. While yes, Smash 4 did fix many of the glaring issues of Brawl, it's still too fundamentally close to Brawl from a gameplay standpoint. And while yes, attendance for Smash 4 tournaments have held up, the views for Smash 4 majors aren't up there with Street Fighter V or Melee. There's a reason why Smash 4 Grand Finals ended up being relegated to a Saturday at the usual venue for EVO rather than the huge arena like Melee.

Street Fighter V needed to be made with updates 5+ years in advance because it had jack shit at launch, and even its updates have been shakily-handled (announcing a monhtly-series of updates, then being completely quiet and only announcing the update's contents a few days before the end of the month, and planned content that's kind of important like the ingame money systems not making that deadline and being pushed back to indeterminate dates). Capcom's handling of the game is a hot mess. It's less a service game and more an incomplete $60 game.

SSB4 isn't like that because the bulk of the content is right there. Any additional content is just icing on an already-packed cake.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up tournament stats when those have been irrelevant to Smash Bros. selling 12 million and Street Fighter struggling to sell a fraction of that. You personally not thinking it's the best? That's cool. But the market has spoken and said that they like it wholeheartedly.

I like the policy of expecting the worst but hoping for the best, but... I do think it's possible to do that and think it'd be silly if the game was a straight port, nothing esle.

 

[Jawmuncher]

If a crap-ton of people bought the PS4 version of USFIV, then it shouldn't really be as big of an issue as you'd think.

That was also sold for only 25 bucks though

 

[A Link to the Past]

I suddenly decided to turn my perspective on a dime

I can't be optimistic that Smash NX will be anything spectacular in terms of updates - if it is, cool, but I don't trust Nintendo 100% right now lol. I worry that Smash NX may end up being a simple slapdash combination of 3DS and Wii U, and nothing more.

 

[jnWake]

Yes, but how many of those people bought the Wii U version?

Not sure what the point is here. If you're implying 3DS buyers would gladly double dip for better resolution then they'd have already done so with the Wii U version. Point is, a straight-up port isn't going to appeal to many existing owners, be it of the 3DS or Wii U version. And that's without taking into account we have no idea if NX is home/portable/shared library/virtual boy 2/cellphone/laptop/microwave/fridge.

 

[DecoReturns]

But that's just it, Sakurai may not even be involved with the port if there's little-to-no content added. And even if he is (given the scenario mentioned panning), Sakurai would likely take an advisory role.


Yes, but how many of those people bought the Wii U version?


But the thing is, Street Fighter V's gameplay is fantastic & is right up there with the best of its franchise (those games being Super Turbo & Third Strike). On top of that, Street Fighter V was made with updates 5+ years down the road in mind. The same cannot be said about Smash 4 on either front. While yes, Smash 4 did fix many of the glaring issues of Brawl, it's still too fundamentally close to Brawl from a gameplay standpoint. And while yes, attendance for Smash 4 tournaments have held up, the views for Smash 4 majors aren't up there with Street Fighter V or Melee. There's a reason why Smash 4 Grand Finals ended up being relegated to a Saturday at the usual venue for EVO rather than the huge arena like Melee.

You gotta stop seeing the competitive scene as the majority. They don't care as much and as long as these games keep making this much money, they are not going to put more time into competitive scene.

smash does not need the Competitve scene, they can sell without focusing on it. Will they get better sell if they did? Maybe, but I bet it wouldn't be as much as everyone is assuming.

 

[Neoxon]

Street Fighter V needed to be made with updates 5+ years in advance because it had jack shit at launch, and even its updates have been shakily-handled (announcing a monhtly-series of updates, then being completely quiet and only announcing the update's contents a few days before the end of the month, and planned content that's kind of important like the ingame money systems not making that deadline and being pushed back to indeterminate dates). Capcom's handling of the game is a hot mess.

SSB4 isn't like that because the bulk of the content is right there. Any additional content is just icing on an already-packed cake.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up tournament stats when those have been irrelevant to Smash Bros. selling 12 million and Street Fighter struggling to sell a fraction of that. You personally not thinking it's the best doesn't matter when the market has spoken and said that they like it wholeheartedly. Even Brawl is still selling eight years later.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was a result of Project M, which has received some exposure.

As for Smash 4, while it is a great game, it's far from perfect. And its gameplay is obviously not great enough to justify building upon it for 10+ year without a major overhaul of the game's mechanics. And I bring up tournament statistics since it's a more accurate show of how well-liked the gameplay is.

Either way, we have no reason to believe right now that we'll get any major additional content besides maybe the Ice Climbers (if they were as far along in development as implied). It'd be best for everyone to keep our expectations as low as realistically possible without risking disappointment.

 

[Omega Kirby]

Haven't played this in forever.....I guess Zelda is still at the bottom of the trash tier?