BassForever
Member
PS:ABR should have just gone with health meters and a slow building special meter and the game would have been perfec... Well it'd have been a lot better.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
This or some kind of mixture like Punch Time Explosion lol.
They got too high on themselves, believed all the hype about their hardcore talents, and decided that they could do Smash better than Smash itself.
Like Icarus (not the Kid version) they dared to fly too close to the sun.
Thus the game ended up as a bloody splatter on the sidewalk.
The super system came about because they didn't want to outright copy Smash (there was a ton of outrage from the start-- simply for the game existing). Ironically, copying Smash would've made it a better game. Not sure if that would further enrage the "fans" though, since everyone called it plagiarism because a rival company made it (lets not name all the other "smash copies" who clearly stole the concept from Nintendo, and hurt their brand image).
Were there any besides that Konami thing?
The problem is, the only other company that has a potential roster that can compete with Nintendo is probably SEGA.
The same people that think Fat Princess is a Playstation All Star...
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Smash Up and Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion.
Even then, it's hard to call it plagiarism when many genres spawned in such a manner where the next game "copied" the original.
I don't blame the devs for roster choice. They had slim pickings since Sony intended for it to be a budget title.
PSASBR was just a lot of wasted potential.
I found it hard to follow the characters (they blended really well with the BG lol). The super system was fun but it shouldn't have been the only way to KO other players... stock matches would go on FOREVER. Never ending, matches with friends sometimes went for more than 30 minutes! The UI was so unbelievably bland. The character selection could have been better - and the DLC was so mishandled. The fighting physics were passable but they never felt quite as satisfying as it does in Smash. I really enjoyed the concept of two franchises sharing a stage though - very original idea that I wouldn't mind seeing in Smash.
But somewhere under all of these problems is a quality game, one that could have been a great fighting title. As it was though... no dice. A PSASBR sequel that builds upon the first really could be something great. Too bad it'll never happen...
I found it hard to follow the characters (they blended really well with the BG lol). The super system was fun but it shouldn't have been the only way to KO other players... stock matches would go on FOREVER. Never ending, matches with friends sometimes went for more than 30 minutes! The UI was so unbelievably bland. The character selection could have been better - and the DLC was so mishandled. The fighting physics were passable but they never felt quite as satisfying as it does in Smash. I really enjoyed the concept of two franchises sharing a stage though - very original idea that I wouldn't mind seeing in Smash.
But somewhere under all of these problems is a quality game, one that could have been a great fighting title. As it was though... no dice. A PSASBR sequel that builds upon the first really could be something great. Too bad it'll never happen...
Lord_Byron28
Member
I agree with just about everything you said. I only disagree that I could see a newcomer for Pokemon. Considering its popularity it'd be awfully strange for it to not have a newcomer. The "Mario Universe" looks like it'll be about 20% of the roster, yes I know a lot of those characters have their own series but they're all in the same universe. I think having around 12% of representatives for Pokemon wouldn't be bad comparatively. It just depends on ideas Sakurai has for them. Here are the options I see:
Pokemon Trainer- could be rival, villian, champion, or protagonists from the various games. Best option, imo, would be a Female protagonist from one of the gens and she either has a set of starters from one gen or multiple gens. Cynthia would be a good option as she is one of the only recurring characters in the entire series but her signature pokes aren't that popular outside of Lucario.
Eevee- A pokemon that is still popular today and could represent gens 1, 2, 4 & 6. There could be a good and unique way to make it work such as maybe eevee works in sets of three. Down B could be the swap out between three sets of three for example Flareon, Jolteon & Vaporeon, Espeon, Umbreon & Sylveon, Eevee, Glaceon & Leafeon.
Blaziken- still popular today and would be well suited for Smash but there are better options. I also fear it'd become a faster Captain Falcon.
Zoroark- as mentioned it was a failed attempt to make another Lucario. However its still somewhat popular and its ability to transform could be interesting. It could have the ability to transform into any character on the roster but make it completely random so the player can't pick what character it could transform into. That's something I could see Sakurai doing.
Plusle & Minun- like Toon Zelda it'd never be suggested if it weren't for the Brawl data suggesting it might be a character. I don't see it as likely nor do I find it a good idea.
RealDeadOne
Member
Is this supposed to be hilarious? Because it's pretty hilarious.
That TMNT Smash Up game actually had a lot of staff that worked on Brawl IIRC, it could have been a pretty great game if they didn't leave out half the memorable Turtles characters and include eighteen different Rabbids instead
Really? Now I'm further confused by Sony's handling of this game. You would think they would throw more cash at this kind of project.
When it come to timed FFA games, this system works.
There's no laming it out, if you don't fight you don't win (unlike in Smash where you can just wait it out and go for the kill). You also have to decide over building a bunch of level 1's or 2's and get consistent kills over the course of the match, or you bet it all on a level 3 which does take almost a whole match to build up and might get you the win as well.
It's when it comes to anything other than timed FFA's that it just doesn't work.
The game would have been broken if it were like that. There are some characters that would be way too dominating if the game were based around simply hitting the opponent and still letting them have supers as well? The game and in particular the character movesets are not balanced for this kind of play.
Are we even talking about the same devs.
Superbot were pretty damn cool. They did a bunch of cool stuff for some people (like giving away that free PS3 and a couple of games to that fan who was interested in PSASBR but never owned a PS3 before) and they were never even as remotely as arrogant as you are making them out to be.
If anything, it was about the opposite as they were a bunch of enthusiastic devs (with some even mentioning this was a dream project to work on) tackling a big concept but were screwed over by bad budgets and picky license owners (see, Sucker Punch wanting two Coles, pretty much all of the 3rd party characters besides Heihachi etc.)
I never said they weren't nice people.
We're talking about gameplay here.
I still don't remember them hyping up their gameplay to the extreme levels you are implying they are.
If you keep building strawmen I'm going to just ignore you.
Well what's this about then?
They did hype up some of their talent (like having some FG players like Maj and Clockwork) but "doing Smash better than Smash itself"?
Choppasmith
Member
Yeah, it's a lot of fun deducing how likely and plausible it is while pining for one to be real. I mean, one of the recent one posted on the Tumblr that had K. Rool, Ridley, Shulk, Dillon, AND Ghirahim. It'd be awesome sure, but it falls into "Too Good to Be True" territory. While others seem to fall more into just plain uninformed craziness with cuts and replacements galore.
It's all fun though.
You know can we talk about possible Dragon Quest rep? Yeah the likelihood is pretty damn low, on the other hand, I'm surprised S-E and Nintendo don't work something out to help give the series a little boost in exposure and popularity.
Plus I know the idea of throwing someone like Goku into the roster has been a bit of a running joke. But I was looking at this Japan-only Wii game called Dragon Quest Monsters Battle Road Victory (*exhale*). A lot of Final Smash material here regardless on who you want. What's funy is how crazy and over-the-top it is. Like the developers said, "Hey since the characters look like DBZ characters (obviously) let's make the special attacks just as crazy looking!" Even if you want to go the mascot route with Slime, even he has a good one waiting to go
Just a random thought, I didn't know about this game until the other day when a video popped up randomly in my related/recommended videos.
Read the post I was replying to, maybe?
So you think that, as opposed to shamelessly ripping off Smash as the Cartoon Network game did, that their choice to do something not entirely the same, meant they were trying to outdo Smash?
Well if you prefer to believe that they deliberately pursued what they knew would be an inferior system, be my guest.
BassForever
Member
Obviously I realize the game couldn't just have an hp system patched in and magically be fixed (this isn't sim city), I'm going under the assumption that had the game been developed with an hp system for kills instead of the supers only it'd be balanced differently.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
whats going on i here
C.Olimar788
Member
PSASBR was just a terrible case of wasted potential. The stages were all very neat aesthetically, the characters all played pretty true to their games (almost to a fault with some of the more "regular" characters like Drake), and it just had so much going for it.
It's a shame it was subject to so much executive meddling. And it's even more of a shame that the game ended up trying to be "unique" - we've yet to have a truly good Smash Bros. clone, so that market is completely open. If they had just copied the Smash Bros. formula and been more diligent about keeping things balanced for competitive play, they would have had their own niche. And, for that matter, Nintendo would have some incentive to take advantage of the tournament scene themselves. But alas...
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to cry because the Journey/Gravity Rush stage was never released.
It's a shame it was subject to so much executive meddling. And it's even more of a shame that the game ended up trying to be "unique" - we've yet to have a truly good Smash Bros. clone, so that market is completely open. If they had just copied the Smash Bros. formula and been more diligent about keeping things balanced for competitive play, they would have had their own niche. And, for that matter, Nintendo would have some incentive to take advantage of the tournament scene themselves. But alas...
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to cry because the Journey/Gravity Rush stage was never released.
I'm not using this as an argument against, just gonna comment on what I know.
I recall Omar saying that he was surprised by the enormous amount of negativity towards the game and how that shaped their decisions to placate the accusers. "Title Fight" (pre-alpha) was probably a lot closer to Smash than the results.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't really care why PSASBR isn't as good as Smash. Ultimately, it just isn't.
Though there are lots of reasons why.
Though there are lots of reasons why.
PSAS would have been as good as Smash if Sony had let the game be properly balanced instead of forcing it to be based solely around FFA, which is inherently chaotic. Can't wait to see if they actually get things right with the final balance patch.
If your matches were lasting 30 minutes then you were all probably playing really poorly and blowing numerous Level 1 supers instead of saving up for surefire Level 3 supers. Not really the game's fault there.
If your matches were lasting 30 minutes then you were all probably playing really poorly and blowing numerous Level 1 supers instead of saving up for surefire Level 3 supers. Not really the game's fault there.
theprodigy
Member
Sony isn't the only one who needs to realize this....
Well... you're not exactly wrong ;p
That reminds me, the characters were pretty awfully balanced, at least from my experience (if there were balance patches I don't believe I played with em - I never got around to getting my own copy, everyone just used the one disc). I don't think any one of us lost a match when we used Kratos or Raiden.
We probably all sucked at this game though tbh, hah. We had our share of fun good times with the game. It just could have and should have been so much more
MisterHero
Super Member
speaking of riffs on smash bros. nintendo should get into a deal with nickelodeon and whoever owns the tmnt game license so 1980s Raphael can appear
rob paulsen was in brawl as grey fox
rob paulsen was in brawl as grey fox
They definitely were not balanced at all. Unfortunately my favorite character (Sir Dan) was the worst of the worst, but I've come to expect this since every time I play a fighting game, the characters I'm drawn to suck.
MSH vs SF: "Norimaro and Dan are hilarious! They ought to be great!"
MvC2: "Jill, Roll, and Servbot look cool! I'll surely beat everyone with them!"
UMvC3: "Wow, Wright seems fun! Spider-Man and Hsien-Ko too!"
SFxT: "Toro and Mega Man will be my mains! Nya!"
I think Smash Bros. is the only series where the opposite happens. I played Meta-Knight, Diddy, and Olimar before they were cool!
theprodigy
Member
hey at least Phoenix Wright had invincible assists for a while in UMvC3 
I don't think that they knew it would be an inferior system during development and while yes, we do know now it is an inferior system with the way it's been implemented, that is because that is simply because that is the way it turned out (I honestly believe that the super system can work with the right tweaks and changes, but that's for another topic).
Saying that their choice to not be exactly like Smash is because they want to outdo Smash, when the developers themselves haven't outright said that it is because of that, is kind of ridiculous. Especially when you have games like Jump Super/Ultimate Stars or TMNT Smash Up running around that also don't outright copy Smash and use the formula in different ways (TMNT has additional health in addition to ring outs, Jump Stars has assists, ring outs, health, character switching etc.)
What.
Either they thought their different, distinct system would be an improvement, or they didn't. This is a binary choice. You believe one or the other.
Why does their difference choice mean they thought it would an improvement?
They can't think that a certain system just might work better for their game? (Of course it didn't end up being that way, but that's not the point)
They didn't have to think that their game was specifically going to be an improvement on the Smash formula for them to go with the choice that they picked.
Because I assume that they were trying to make the best game they could. Radical assumption, I know.
They overreached, they got burned. That's what happened.
I'm sorry but this is just mental gymnastics. From the beginning of this exchange you've been stanning Superbot so hard you barely paused to read what I actually wrote. I get the distinct impression that you are arguing just for the sake of arguing, and I am now ending my participation in that process.
I agree the game had some problems and it was definitely low-budget, but I actually enjoyed it for what it was. I'm also a huge fan of PlayStation and its history, so that's probably why. That said, it's not nearly as good as Smash Bros., but I think they knew that already.
My friends and I played the beta online for hours and all of us thought it should've played more like Smash. I didn't like that I had to press a button for jumping, I've always liked using the analog stick.
That was my major gripe with the game, not a valid complaint I know.
Arguing to get bets going is mutually exclusive with arguing just for the sake of arguing lol.
Also this might help.
Masked Man
I said wow
It'd also be cool to see more Earthbound (or Mother 3) characters make cameos. The camera man could be a neat assist trophy.
I support this idea 100%--especially if his theme song plays when he appears on screen.
My favorite was the guy who (allegedly) got fired for watching porn at work and occasionally posted in offensively incomprehensible Japanese.
Alright fine, let's agree to disagree.
You can think that, of the last few games to come out of this genre (shocking, I know! but mascot fighters are an actual genre, even if in the current state it is in, it lives and will die by Smash if nothing changes) that somehow the game that plays the least like Smash, was the one with this Icarus complex that was trying to surpass Smash, dethrone it and send it hurtling to the abyss of who knows where, despite no claims being made from themselves.
No, they definitely had to have been vying so hard for that delicious Smash crown, there is no way that it could have been as simple or as innocent as thinking the super system might have been a better fit for Sony's set of characters and IP's. No, even from the first first leaks, it was so readily apparent that from Superbot's lips came this craving fluid that craved only the musk, the malt and the mellow touch of Sakurai's crown, and nothing else but that.
But you're right, like the Titanic, like Kratos as the God of War, like Romeo and Juliet, they were truly deceived by their delusions, and the reality struck them like a bolt from the heavens, just as it sent the Titanic, Kratos and the starcrossed lovers, into an iceberg, Hades and the afterlife, respectively. It was time to face reality, and the cold harsh reality for those of ambitions and large though unfulfilled dreams, it is back to the pavement shared by those similarly who have flown to closely to the Sun.
I'm joking past first paragraph btw. I am definitely done, I can only agree to disagree.
SkullHydra
Member
Pic of the day could show up any minute now. Hopefully we get another picture of Dedede
with Ridley obscured in the background.
A Kirby stage would do.
Chargin' Chuck assist trophy.