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[LiquidSolid]

For most devs I do not care what they do but from my childhood one of the devs I have respected the most has always been Insomniac games.

If they continue to support Occulus then I'm not sure I can continue with that affection for the studio. Their statement suggesting that many of the employees they work with do not share his views is irritating to read.

Insomniac's stuck between a rock and a hard place because Oculus is funding their VR games and I doubt they want to burn that bridge (let alone possibly breach their contract) while they still have two Oculus games in development. I think they did as much as they could to condemn his bullshit at this time, we'll have to wait and see whether they do anything else later on.

 

[Kaako]

The Verge reports on two anonymous developers who are not going to support Oculus.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/23/13033268/palmer-luckey-trump-meme-fund-oculus-developers-respond

Good good. Hopefully more will follow suit. Hopefully EVERYONE will follow suit! Don't support this pathetic company who doesn't have the backbone to set their mascot straight.

 

[kami_sama]

Insomniac's stuck between a rock and a hard place because Oculus is funding their VR games and I doubt they want to burn that bridge (let alone possibly breach their contract) while they still have two Oculus games in development. I think they did as much as they could to condemn his bullshit at this time, we'll have to wait and see whether they do anything else later on.

Yeah, I think insomniac is not in the wrong here, no dev studio is, oculus support or not, only oculus and Palmer are.

 

[ScientificPizza]

He only said he will look into it in that video. Its a non-answer.



Its more plausible to assume it is not in development if it didn't get announced. Whether it is in development, its behind their closed door. To what they have shown us, it is not a plan.

lmao what

It's more plausible to assume a developer is lying about cancelling support because ???? than it is to assume that a VR developer might be pursuing more than one of the three headsets currently in the market

Like what end are you working toward

 

[Durante]

The Verge reports on two anonymous developers who are not going to support Oculus.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/23/13033268/palmer-luckey-trump-meme-fund-oculus-developers-respond

I think this is a significant component:

In both these cases, though, it was only the last straw in an already-difficult relationship with Oculus — one criticized a "control-freak and anti-competitive" approach to the development community, and the other called Oculus’ "stand-offish and unresponsive" behavior "the polar opposite" of Valve and HTC’s relationship to developers.

 

[TharpDaddy]

Good good. Hopefully more will follow suit. Hopefully EVERYONE will follow suit! Don't support this pathetic company who doesn't have the backbone to set their mascot straight.

Completely shooting in the dark, but isn't it illegal to fire someone for political affiliation in Cali? Oculus may have their hands pretty tied as to what they can do.

 

[Briarios]

I think this is a significant component:

I think his behavior will give others a way out that can't be spun against them.

People fed up with Oculus may be afraid of how the behemoth may possibly either retaliate or shape the discussion against them. But, extracting yourself because you don't want to be associated with a racist -- well, most people understand that reasoning.

 

[Mahonay]

Completely shooting in the dark, but isn't it illegal to fire someone for political beliefs in Cali? Oculus may have their hands pretty tied as to what they can do.

Publicly shaming your company by leading a racist movement is probably a reasonable reason to fire someone.

 

[TharpDaddy]

Publicly shaming your company by leading a racist movement is probably a reasonable reason to fire someone.

By common sense, yes, but making what is essentially a anonymous donation to a political group is probably not grounds for firing, but i'm definitely not a lawyer. What has occurred just comes across to me as incredibly tricky to lawfully fire someone for considering Cali's law against firing for political affiliation. If Oculus has no way to fire him for that, coming out and condemning a person who still works for you would be a bad move.

 

[Briarios]

By common sense, yes, but making what is essentially a anonymous donation to a political group is probably not grounds for firing, but i'm definitely not a lawyer. What has occurred just comes across to me as incredibly tricky to lawfully fire someone for considering Cali's law against firing for political affiliation. If Oculus has no way to fire him for that, coming out and condemning a person who still works for you would be a bad move.

Officers and management in companies have different standards than hourlyl/non-exempt employees. A wrong statement by a company leader can decimate the value of the company very quickly, so the board has pretty good leeway. This is not an example of an employee talking about unionizing. This is a company executive directly affecting who wants to do business with his organization.

Yeah, if they want, they could get rid of him.

Edit: Just to be clear, though -- it's not super fast. This is happening over a weekend. I wouldn't expect to see movement, if they're doing anything, until next week.

 

[TharpDaddy]

Officers and management in companies have different standards than hourlyl/non-exempt employees. A wrong statement by a company leader can decimate the value of the company very quickly, so the board has pretty good leeway. This is not an example of an employee talking about unionizing. This is a company executive directly affecting who wants to do business with his organization.

Yeah, if they want, they could get rid of him.

Edit: Just to be clear, though -- it's not super fast. This is happening over a weekend. I wouldn't expect to see movement, if they're doing anything, until next week.

Ahh, cool. Thanks for the clarification. I hope Oculus gets rid of him then. I'd hope Luckey would at least have the tact to step down instead.

 

[chadskin]

Broken Window Studios statement: http://www.brokenwindowstudios.com/

To our fans, supporters, fellow developers, and friends,
​
In light of recent events unfolding involving the Oculus founder, we have debated how to respond, and if a response was even appropriate. However, we feel strongly about this issue and felt that it was necessary to address the topic. So, we are choosing to issue a formal statement about the role that the Oculus founder played in the funding an Internet "shitposting" campaign.
​
We don't fault anyone for opinions which differ from ours as private citizens. Where we draw the line is when politics become propped up by abusive behavior or hate. One of the most distressing aspects of Mr. Luckey's decision to support Nimble America is that it gives a specific platform for the spread of lies, hate, abuse and racism as supposed "humorous" means to promote a partisan agenda. We here at Broken Window Studios take the concept of Internet abuse seriously and strive to make games which are inclusive to a diverse audience. We do not in any way condone the use of hateful or discriminatory rhetoric in any process, whether expressly political or otherwise.
​
We feel very conflicted about how to respond to the news of Palmer's actions, and do not feel comfortable with tacitly advertising for Oculus this weekend at Minecon. As such, we will not be displaying Reflections with the Oculus Rift as we had intended prior to our arrival.
​
At this point in time, we do not intend to drop support for Oculus hardware in our titles, because we believe that this decision would inadvertently hurt the tens of thousands of honest people who own an Oculus simply to enjoy great VR. We would also like to state that we have worked with a number of extremely wonderful and talented people who represent Oculus at various levels, and do not harbor any ill will towards them. However, we cannot express enough our disagreement with the actions of the Oculus founder, and want to vocally condemn any act which is designed to marginalize, discriminate against, or otherwise take advantage of any group of people based on the premise of race, religion, gender or identity.

Sincerely,

The Broken Window Studios Team

 

[ArtHands]

lmao what

It's more plausible to assume a developer is lying about cancelling support because ???? than it is to assume that a VR developer might be pursuing more than one of the three headsets currently in the market

Like what end are you working toward

There isn't a need to assume when it is announced as an exclusive with no concrete intention for anything else yet in the first place.

no, their statement literally says "We will not be pursuing". That doesn't imply that the pursuing has started.

And again, wtf is your point with all of this? for like the 4th time do you think they are lying?

That's the definition of 'cancelled' in the thread title here?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

There isn't a need to assume when it is announced as an exclusive with no concrete intention for anything else yet in the first place.



That's the definition of 'cancelled' in the thread title here?

cancelling support, not cancelling a game.

 

[Zubz]

I hope more devs follow suit. Is the VR market big enough for this kind of thing to make a dent yet, though?

 

[Mahonay]

I hope more devs follow suit. Is the VR market big enough for this kind of thing to make a dent yet, though?

The fact that VR is trying hard just to get off the ground means that any drop in support does make a dent. And the fact that many of it's early adopters frequent forums like this one makes the impact larger than it would be otherwise. It will be interesting if we see a noticeable change in the coming year, if Oculus continues to hold it's ground with supporting Luckey.

 

[ScientificPizza]

There isn't a need to assume when it is announced as an exclusive with no concrete intention for anything else yet in the first place.



That's the definition of 'cancelled' in the thread title here?

So you're accusing them of lying? For what purpose?

 

[Mahonay]

So you're accusing them of lying? For what purpose?

To muddy the waters.

 

[ArtHands]

So you're accusing them of lying? For what purpose?

I am just setting things straight, because the impression now seems to suggest they have been making it for the Rift too, when nothing has suggested that it was the case.

cancelling support, not cancelling a game.

They didn't support it in the first place. What's there to cancel?

 

[mikeyvids]

I never had beef with Phil Fish. Only thing he said I wish he would reconsider was not bringing his games to Nintendo. A stance he is entitled to and my own reason is I'd like to experience his games and a family man with limited budget happen to be Nintendo only past gen and upcoming gen.

That said I applaud his stance against divisiveness, bullying and shitpost propaganda especially given the current social climate and media misdirection. I have a new found respect for this man.

 

[Quote]

I am just setting things straight, because the impression now seems to suggest they have been making it for the Rift too, when nothing has suggested that it was the case.



They didn't support it in the first place. What's there to cancel?

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=n1eTv1VBOYw
18:30
"We'll get there eventually"

Even if he didn't say that you're being extremely dense. Purposely dense. Your post history is transparent as hell. As of right now, any chance of SHC coming to Oculus is no more.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not

Me either.

 

[RagingAvatar]

I really like Broken Window's statement and thank them for not leaving me out in the cold as an Oculus owner. I don't agree with Palmer's views but Oculus isn't him anymore. It's good they came out and said something.

 

[dEvAnGeL]

this couldn't have better timing for Sony with their PSVR launching next month

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=n1eTv1VBOYw
18:30
"We'll get there eventually"

Even if he didn't say that you're being extremely dense. Purposely dense. Your post history is transparent as hell. As of right now, any chance of SHC coming to Oculus is no more.

What is transparent about his post history?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I am just setting things straight, because the impression now seems to suggest they have been making it for the Rift too, when nothing has suggested that it was the case.



They didn't support it in the first place. What's there to cancel?

They never said they did. They said they will not be pursuing Oculus support in the future. You are incredibly obtuse.

 

[Neuromancer]

ArtHands it's not that difficult to understand. They were planning on an Oculus version of the game, now they're not. Which part of that is confusing to you?

 

[Nags]

This is going to start happening a lot isn't it? Sorry I wasted my money on a Rift. Fuck.

 

[Thanati]

Also, I'm sorry but Palmer's 'apology' was complete bullshit. Are you telling me he donated 10k to something he didn't research? Just sent it because it 'looked good'? Utter nonsense because if he did, then that's the action of a stupid kid.

On the other hand, if he did it just because he had 10k to spare, then that is also awful. What kind of responsibility does that show? 'Oh hey, I've got 10k in my pocket, I'm just going to throw it at some random shit'.

Nope. This guy has lost all credibility.

 

[Cartman86]

Hot Dogs, Horseshoes & Hand Grenades dev is canceling official Oculus and Touch support for now (Should still work with Touch in Steam VR of course but not "officially"). Really great video of the dev talking about it. Also incredibly fascinating given the context of the game (a hyper real gun simulator). The dev is not unaware of this little twist. He has been quoted in some of the stories, but his entire speech on it is really good.

 

[charlequin]

By common sense, yes, but making what is essentially a anonymous donation to a political group is probably not grounds for firing, but i'm definitely not a lawyer.

Yeah, California is one of the few places in the US where this probably wouldn't fly even under at-will.

I am just setting things straight

No, you're not. Stop.

 

[RooMHM]

Broken Window Studios statement: http://www.brokenwindowstudios.com/

This is a great statement. Canceling announced or projected titles seems a bit assholish to me because people have been expecting those titles and might have bought the product for that before this witch hunt began.

Then, choosing to not support the company ANYMORE after 1st title or before any planned cooperation is just a matter of choice.

 

[More_Badass]

Hot Dogs, Horseshoes & Hand Grenades dev is canceling official Oculus and Touch support for now (Should still work with Touch in Steam VR of course but not "officially"). Really great video of the dev talking about it. Also incredibly fascinating given the context of the game (a hyper real gun simulator). The dev is not unaware of this little twist. He has been quoted in some of the stories, but his entire speech on it is really good.

Highlighting this one. This is a really great speech

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Yeah, California is one of the few places in the US where this probably wouldn't fly even under at-will.



No, you're not. Stop.

Certainly he is not an at-will employee. Likely a contract. And many contracts have clauses to dismiss on the grounds of making the company look bad, like a morality clause. It's questionable whether something like this would work under a morality clause, especially since you would basically be expecting a court to enforce a contract that restricts political speech.

I feel certain facebook has had the discussion "can we fire him" and "do we want to". I doubt he'll be fired and I don't even think this is making huge splashes outside of gaming media. I feel like this news is low impact even though it appeared to be a bigger deal at first.

 

[Outrun]

Isn't this the Phil fish game?

Do... Do i now like him?

Only a ninja can defeat a ninja...

 

[Tagyhag]

This is a great statement. Canceling announced or projected titles seems a bit assholish to me because people have been expecting those titles and might have bought the product for that before this witch hunt began.

Then, choosing to not support the company ANYMORE after 1st title or before any planned cooperation is just a matter of choice.

Then they should just put it on Steam.

Unlike Oculus, Valve is completely okay with people using SteamVR with the competing headsets.

It's just funny that people who own an anti-consumer headset are shocked when games get cancelled for it.

 

[Bookoo]

Then they should just put it on Steam.

Unlike Oculus, Valve is completely okay with people using SteamVR with the competing headsets.

It's just funny that people who own an anti-consumer headset are shocked when games get cancelled for it.

Who exactly is shocked? Also the fact that it has exclusives wasn't the reason for them cancelling it so not sure what your point is there.

 

[Tagyhag]

Who exactly is shocked? Also the fact that it has exclusive titles was the reason for them cancelling it so not sure what your point is there.

I assume the Oculus owners who weren't expecting superhypercube to be cancelled were shocked.

And what do you mean by your second statement?

 

[Neuromancer]

This is a great statement. Canceling announced or projected titles seems a bit assholish to me because people have been expecting those titles and might have bought the product for that before this witch hunt began.

Then, choosing to not support the company ANYMORE after 1st title or before any planned cooperation is just a matter of choice.

The term witch hunt doesn't apply here because in this case the witch actually exists.

 

[Bookoo]

I assume the Oculus owners who weren't expecting superhypercube to be cancelled were shocked.

And what do you mean by your second statement?

Well Super Hyper Cube was never really officially announced the most they said was they do want it to come to other platforms, but are currently focused on PSVR so it's not like Rift users had the expectation.

Also since it's likely coming to Steam Rift users will be able to play it that way unless there is some way to block the headset, but I am not sure if OpenVR allows that.

It's just funny that people who own an anti-consumer headset are shocked when games get cancelled for it.

It being "anti-consumer" has nothing to do with the reason why it was cancelled so not sure what the point is here.

 

[Keihart]

I'm not even North American and i feel that Trump is a threat to the world if he gets elected after hearing some of his speaches.

Nice to see devs with balls. (Figurative ones i mean, of course )

 

[ScherzoPrime]

I mean, I think it's Phish's (well his company's) right to not publish his game on a specific console for whatever reason he chooses, just as it is Palmer Luckey's right to throw his money after horrible candidates.


I think obviously it's a choice for each company to make, whether they want their product associated with someone whose political beliefs are abhorrent.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I am just setting things straight, because the impression now seems to suggest they have been making it for the Rift too, when nothing has suggested that it was the case.



They didn't support it in the first place. What's there to cancel?

But you're not setting anything straight? You're just being extremely literal for no reason at all

What you're basically saying is the equivilant of saying that Rockstar are not working on a new game because they haven't announced anything. How could it be even remotely possible that people could be working on something if they haven't told the world about it???

 

[jediyoshi]

Also since it's likely coming to Steam Rift users will be able to play it that way unless there is some way to block the headset, but I am not sure if OpenVR allows that.

You realize the crux of developers canceling their support is punishing Oculus by not having it on their store and thus cutting off their revenue share, and not users by blocking their ability to play it on their Rifts, right?

 

[T-0800]

I hope none of you watched Rush Hour 3.

 

[FlyinJ]

I mean, I think it's Phish's (well his company's) right to not publish his game on a specific console for whatever reason he chooses, just as it is Palmer Luckey's right to throw his money after horrible candidates.


I think obviously it's a choice for each company to make, whether they want their product associated with someone whose political beliefs are abhorrent.

Let's set the record straight again:

This controversy isn't about Palmer supporting or donating to the Trump campaign.

He donated to a hate group that attacks women, minorities and LGBT. They also made a few Trump memes (repeating Trumps most vile stances, because it aligns with theirs), but the main purpose of "Slender Anerica" is to spread alt-right hate speech.

 

[ScientificPizza]

I hope none of you watched Rush Hour 3.

Did anyone?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Let's set the record straight again:

This controversy isn't about Palmer supporting or donating to the Trump campaign.

He donated to a hate group that attacks women, minorities and LGBT. They also made a few Trump memes (repeating Trumps most vile stances, because it aligns with theirs), but the main purpose of "Slender Anerica" is to spread alt-right hate speech.

Not to mention it's a group that thinks "shit posting" and "delicious memes" are legitimate tools to introduce into the political discourse. What a bunch of shithead manbabies.

 

[Zalusithix]

Hot Dogs, Horseshoes & Hand Grenades dev is canceling official Oculus and Touch support for now (Should still work with Touch in Steam VR of course but not "officially"). Really great video of the dev talking about it. Also incredibly fascinating given the context of the game (a hyper real gun simulator). The dev is not unaware of this little twist. He has been quoted in some of the stories, but his entire speech on it is really good.

Gun simulator, but it's important to note that it's not a violent game. No killing, etc. Anton has purposely kept the game more in the lines of target shooting and other more silly things. Sure H3VR undoubtedly has fans from the right (and alt-right), but it also has plenty of support from the center and left (including myself). It was certainly a risk doing what he did, but it wasn't going to alienate his entire user base.

On the topic, I'd also like to mention that Anton is probably my favorite VR dev at this point. He's friendly, interacts with the community, and has done damn near weekly updates with video devlogs since the Vive first hit the market. The game has come a long way since those first days, and continues to get better. H3VR isn't for everybody, but if you're interested in guns (and not killing), there's nothing better out there right now.

 

[FlyinJ]

Gun simulator, but it's important to note that it's not a violent game. No killing, etc. Anton has purposely kept the game more in the lines of target shooting and other more silly things. Sure H3VR undoubtedly has fans from the right (and alt-right), but it also has plenty of support from the center and left (including myself). It was certainly a risk doing what he did, but it wasn't going to alienate his entire user base.

On the topic, I'd also like to mention that Anton is probably my favorite VR dev at this point. He's friendly, interacts with the community, and has done damn near weekly updates with video devlogs since the Vive first hit the market. The game has come a long way since those first days, and continues to get better. H3VR isn't for everybody, but if you're interested in guns (and not killing), there's nothing better out there right now.

That guy seems really awesome. I'd heard he was a cool guy, and I wish I had discovered him under less shitty circumstances.

Good on him. Going to definitely follow his dev blogs.

 

[The Elite]

As a Rift owner it's frustrating but completely understandable. Hopefully they will renew their support if Palmer is forced out of the company.