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[Dr. Black Jack]

Since people keep bringing this up: I collect physical games. The data problem is the same since they have to be installed to the hard drive before they can be played.

Every generation of consoles has its limits, and I'm starting to run into the biggest one of the eighth gen: system storage, specifically on the PS4.

The Xbox One has the best storage options since it allows for multiple external drives and AFAIK you can still delete data individually (DLC/install/etc). The only storage problem with the console is the inability to change the internal drive but the external drive support mitigates that.

The Wii U system storage has always been a complete goddamn joke but again, you can hook up externals to it so it's not insurmountable.

The PS4 is the fucking worst with this. You can change the internal HDD but only to another 2.5" drive, maxing out at 2tb. You can't separate update data from DLC from install data, meaning that you have to delete the game's entire data package to remove anything. There's no support for externals of any kind. You could use the Nyko Data Bank for a higher capacity 3.5" drive but OOPS the PS4 firmware will only work reliably with 2tb or less, making the product a complete waste of time. I have to constantly delete and redownload games since there's no goddamn way to keep the install data separate from the other game data and no external drive support.

The thing is, even with external support you have to keep feeding the systems external drives if you don't want to constantly redownload/reinstall everything all the time. In my experience most modern retail games average out at 40-50gb per title after you've downloaded all of the extra patches/etc with it. Unless you want to spend a shitload of money and make a 3.5" self-powered external you're stuck with buying 2tb slim drives, which can fit 40-50 retail games each. That may sound like a lot, but for a collector it becomes a huge added cost. I have 200+ retail Xbox 360 games...if I end up that way with the PS4, providing Sony adds external support, that's an automatic added cost of at least three additional external drives plus a 2tb internal, if I don't download anything other than retail games. I'll probably end up needing another 2-4tb of date for the various download-only games and applications and whatever. Plus it will look ugly as shit to have a bunch of external drives plus a hub hanging around the system on my entertainment center, meaning more time and money spent trying to make the giant spider web of externals invisible.

This wasn't really a problem for me with seventh gen consoles since I mained the 360, where disc installs were optional, and stuck to exclusives for the PS3, which had smallish installs that were mostly manageable in the XMB.

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

 

[Google]

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

 

[kuroneko0509]

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

lol

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

 

[KZXcellent]

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

Reading OPs is real hard these days~

 

[0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55]

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

Yeah, I mean what. 2TB.... That Beast mode storage.

 

[Google]

Reading OPs is real hard these days~

Almost as hard as collecting digital games on multiple TBs of storage.

 

[Emperor Bohe]

I agree... I hate that I have to reinstall a game if I feel like playing something on the whim.

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

C'mon man. You could've at least ran a Google algorithm to search the post to know that he covered that.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Or just delete games when you're done with them.

I would delete the disc install data but you can't on the PS4, which is my main console. You have to delete EVERYTHING that's not save data every goddamn time. There's no way to preserve DLC and updates separately, which was never a problem with the 360/PS3.

 

[B4s5C]

Fuck Evilore

 

[Finaika]

Next gen simply must be equipped with a 2TB SSD minimum.

 

[etta]

Ehh, I'd argue the CPUs are a bigger problem, since external HDD support can be patched in on PS4, when Sony feels like it.

 

[Google]

I would delete the disc install data but you can't on the PS4, which is my main console. You have to delete EVERYTHING that's not save data every goddamn time. There's no way to preserve DLC and updates separately, which was never a problem with the 360/PS3.

Sure. If this is the main problem you encounter with this generation i'd consider yourself lucky.

 

[RedAssedApe]

disk installs are pretty speedy so it doesn't bother me. will suck for digital only though especially if you have bandwidth caps.

 

[Smokey]

Yep I just ran into this issue. I had 32GB free on my 2TB HDD. Updates for Destiny, Fallout 4, Madden, NFS, AC Syndicate, and Life is Strange would not install because I didn't have enough space. Ended up deleting quite a few games. Sucks. I'm curious why they wouldn't install with 32GB of free space but like I said above...freeing up more space some how allowed them to continue.

 

[Finaika]

Ehh, I'd argue the CPUs are a bigger problem, since external HDD support can be patched in on PS4, when Sony feels like it.

Didn't Sony just unlocked the 7th core of the PS4 CPU?

 

[hamchan]

Even if you're a collector why do you need to have all 200+ games installed somewhere? Are you going to play that many games at the same time?

 

[KingWool]

I'm hoping Sony provides support for external drives. Seems like a pretty simple fix.

Wii U was a complete mess at launch and even on day one had external support.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

First world problems....

 

[Finaika]

Even if you're a collector why do you need to have all 200+ games installed somewhere? Are you going to play that many games at the same time?

Collectors don't play games, they collect.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Ehh, I'd argue the CPU's are a bigger problem, since external HDD support can be patched in on PS4, when Sony feels like it.

That doesn't solve the problem of games taking up the space of multiple external drives though, at $60-100 a pop.

The funny thing to me is that the 3DS doesn't have this problem...pop in a 32/64gb SD and you're good for the whole gen, providing you use retail carts when possible.

 

[etta]

Didn't Sony just unlocked the 7th core of the PS4 CPU?

It's still the weakest link.

That doesn't solve the problem of games taking up the space of multiple external drives though, at $60-100 a pop.

The funny thing to me is that the 3DS doesn't have this problem...pop in a 32/64gb SD and you're good for the whole gen, providing you use retail carts when possible.

It would have costed you the same if they had incuded 4TB internal.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Can games be compressed? Or are they already compressed and then certain parts are unzipped as required?

Honestly I'm in the dark when it comes to how games are delivered digitally and on disc.

 

[Odrion]

Didn't Sony just unlocked the 7th core of the PS4 CPU?

AMD cores are very very weak, and the PS4's cores are running at, what, 1.8 ghz? (3~4ghz is the norm these days.)

The PS4's and Xbone's cpus are shit weak. They get outclassed by underclocked budget cpus from intel.

 

[malfcn]

The Xbox One has the best storage options since it allows for multiple external drives and AFAIK you can still delete data individually (DLC/install/etc). The only storage problem with the console is the inability to change the internal drive but the external drive support mitigates that.

The Xbox had its quirks too. If you have DLC installed, but no disc or title bits, you can't manage it. That means it's stuck on your storage until you have a copy to then manage.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Even if you're a collector why do you need to have all 200+ games installed somewhere? Are you going to play that many games at the same time?

I like to switch games when the mood strikes, especially when company is over. Nothing is worse than "Oh hey let's play this fun game together wait nope it'll take the whole night to install nevermind". I like to have things as ready-to-go as possible.

The main problem is that I can't delete just the disc data, which usually takes a few minutes at most to install. It's the DLC+updates that slows shit down.

 

[AmuroChan]

Collectors don't play games, they collect.

You still own the game even if you don't have it installed. It's not like selling off a physical disc from your collection where you no longer own it. You can go to Library and view your entire collection of games. Whether the game is installed or not does not change the number of games you own in your collection.

 

[mullet2000]

Didn't Sony just unlocked the 7th core of the PS4 CPU?

It's still a very weak CPU. Every bit helps but it isn't going to make a big difference.

 

[Gxgear]

I'm at 120 PS4 titles (~3 dozen retail) and haven't even hit the cap for the 2tb (1.2tb of 1.77tb used) yet. How many games do you own?

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

You still own the game even if you don't have it installed. It's not like selling off a physical disc from your collection where you no longer own it. You can go to Library and view your entire collection of games. Whether the game is installed or not does not change the number of games you own in your collection.

...until it gets pulled like P.T. did, then you're SOL unless there's a physical retail version.

I'm at 120 PS4 titles (~3 dozen retail) and haven't even hit the cap for the 2tb (1.77tb) yet. How many games do you own?

I only have a 500gb at the moment, plan on upgrading by the end of the year. I'm too tired to go count my PS4 library but I'd estimate a couple dozen retail titles.

 

[Neuromancer]

That's a pretty specific use case. The average player of any of these systems probably never run out of storage space.

 

[WickedLaharl]

PS4 storage is pretty terrible. It wouldn't be so bad if i could delete game installs without deleting DLC. Soony needs to pull their head out of their asses and allow external hdd installs.

 

[Alucrid]

A collector of digital games? What, do you boot them up look at them and then exit? Surely you can't have 2 tbs of games that your regularly play.

 

[Lady Gaia]

Next gen simply must be equipped with a 2TB SSD minimum.

Assuming the next generation is still four years away and prices continue to fall along the current curve, that means the storage alone would contribute more than $200 to the price of the console. That would also likely mean no storage bump over the 7th generation consoles that are likely to be sold immediately prior, and perhaps even a storage reduction. Both feel extremely unlikely. I could see tiered storage with a hybrid SSD / mechanical option along the lines of Apple's Fusion drive being more viable.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

It sounds like you don't even play those titles, you just want to have them... If it is a purely collector's reason, then your method of collecting digital games is flawed.

I don't know anyone who collects digital games in their own storage. You should collect games on your account, like PSN or Steam. I bet most people in here have a huge Steam library that has mostly uninstalled titles.

If you aren't just collecting, then maybe you are stuck with 8mbps telephone cables and downloading 40GB is a long problem. I can relate to that, but that is a bandwidth problem rather than storage.

 

[Bl@de]

Storage can be upgraded if you need it. Weak CPU is the biggest problem.

 

[ElTorro]

Ehh, I'd argue the CPUs are a bigger problem, since external HDD support can be patched in on PS4, when Sony feels like it.

Yeah. Storage would actually be no problem at all if you could attach as much external storage as you like (and be willing to buy it in the first place).

 

[Sojgat]

IMO the fact that downloaded content can't be managed separately from game installs is currently the PS4's biggest problem.

I kind of want to play some BF4, but I'm not downloading all the maps again, it would take the better part of a day just to install everything.

 

[Drkirby]

Can't you replace the PS4 Hard Drive, and add external Drives to the Wii U and Xbox One? Just how much space do the average PS4 and Xbox One games take up?

 

[etta]

Assuming the next generation is still four years away and prices continue to fall along the current curve, that means the storage alone would contribute more than $200 to the price of the console. That would also likely mean no storage bump over the 7th generation consoles that are likely to be sold immediately prior, and perhaps even a storage reduction. Both feel extremely unlikely. I could see tiered storage with a hybrid SSD / mechanical option along the lines of Apple's Fusion drive being more viable.

I read somewhere recently that there's this new tech in 2016 that should bring proce/gb for SSDs very close to the ratio for HDDs.

How's that something that affects you as a consumer? No matter how good the specs of a console there always gonna fall behind pc hardware.

I agree with op and I think revisions will easily fix this but for the meantime it suck and more for sorry saps like me with launch models.

It's not about it being better relative to PCs, it's about it being good enough to hold its own. Like the RAM and GPU, in the PS4 at least.
Better CPUs would mean Battlefront could do 64 players and GTA V wouldn't drop frames below 30 (for the 99% at least).

 

[JoseLopez]

Ehh, I'd argue the CPUs are a bigger problem, since external HDD support can be patched in on PS4, when Sony feels like it.

How's that something that affects you as a consumer? No matter how good the specs of a console there always gonna fall behind pc hardware.

I agree with op and I think revisions will easily fix this but for the meantime it sucks and more for sorry saps like me with launch models.

 

[zackmorris]

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

A collector of digital games? I've never heard anyone say that before. Either way, deleting a digital game is no different than putting a physical game back on a shelf. It's still there if you want to play it, but it's not in the system all the time.

 

[TURBO1112]

I have a 5TB on my X1. Down to 1.5TBs left. Yes I buy a ton of games. And do i Like having any game installed in case I want to play that game right then. I will probably buy another 5TB some time next year,

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

A collector of digital games? What, do you boot them up look at them and then exit? Surely you can't have 2 tbs of games that your regularly play.

All PS4 and X1 retail games dump the entire bluray onto the HDD and then use the disc as a license check. Even as a physical collector data is a problem, especially since I can't get rid of just the disc install data on the PS4.

 

[Skrams]

I assume Bluray being the standard with no 360 limits holding it back means they can go hog wild with space. A 500 GB HDD in everyone's PS4 by default also means I get giant updates for every game constantly. It's a real annoyance if I want to keep a game installed as I might play it later, but I don't want to go through the annoyance of deleting and redownloading a ton of things constantly. I can't imagine the annoyance for anyone going full digital unless their speeds can handle it.

Also the inability to use an external hard drive is a bummer too since I was hoping to show my brother, who lives in Alaska, some stuff like the FF15 demo. I can't really do that though with his shit internet and data caps up there though.

 

[stan423321]

A collector of digital games? I've never heard anyone say that before. Either way, deleting a digital game is no different than putting a physical game back on a shelf. It's still there if you want to play it, but it's not in the system all the time.

If you keep your shelves in local McDonald's or something for some reason, then this analogy is appropriate.

 

[Eusis]

I really wish the PS4 had better management options. Even if you can't run off an external it'd be nice to be able to choose individual games to back up and restore. Doubly good if we could go the Wii SD card model and have games install and uninstall as necessary to internal memory. Might want it to just keep a bunch on though then delete past a certain threshold if installed from HDD and not pinned or something though.

... And hope they expand the supported max. It'll definitely be a problem, even if laptop HDDs stop getting larger SSDs WILL get larger, more affordable, and that 2 tb limit will be all the more frustrating for it once a 4 gb or whatever option is actually a sane option and not the whim of the overly rich or the mad goal of the dedicated.

If you keep your shelves in local McDonald's or something for some reason, then this analogy is appropriate.

HOPEFULLY faster internet rapidly becomes the norm and more than offsets the increased size of these games, but even then it'd be like storing it up in an (admittedly well organized) attic, and hoping a squirrel didn't break in and eat it or whatever.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Every generation of consoles has its limits, and I'm starting to run into the biggest one of the eighth gen: system storage, specifically on the PS4.

The Xbox One has the best storage options since it allows for multiple external drives and AFAIK you can still delete data individually (DLC/install/etc). The only storage problem with the console is the inability to change the internal drive but the external drive support mitigates that.

The Wii U system storage has always been a complete goddamn joke but again, you can hook up externals to it so it's not insurmountable.

The PS4 is the fucking worst with this. You can change the internal HDD but only to another 2.5" drive, maxing out at 2tb. You can't separate update data from DLC from install data, meaning that you have to delete the game's entire data package to remove anything. There's no support for externals of any kind. You could use the Nyko Data Bank for a higher capacity 3.5" drive but OOPS the PS4 firmware will only work reliably with 2tb or less, making the product a complete waste of time. I have to constantly delete and redownload games since there's no goddamn way to keep the install data separate from the other game data and no external drive support.

The thing is, even with external support you have to keep feeding the systems external drives if you don't want to constantly redownload/reinstall everything all the time. In my experience most modern retail games average out at 40-50gb per title after you've downloaded all of the extra patches/etc with it. Unless you want to spend a shitload of money and make a 3.5" self-powered external you're stuck with buying 2tb slim drives, which can fit 40-50 retail games each. That may sound like a lot, but for a collector it becomes a huge added cost. I have 200+ retail Xbox 360 games...if I end up that way with the PS4, providing Sony adds external support, that's an automatic added cost of at least three additional external drives plus a 2tb internal, if I don't download anything other than retail games. I'll probably end up needing another 2-4tb of date for the various download-only games and applications and whatever. Plus it will look ugly as shit to have a bunch of external drives plus a hub hanging around the system on my entertainment center, meaning more time and money spent trying to make the giant spider web of externals invisible.

This wasn't really a problem for me with seventh gen consoles since I mained the 360, where disc installs were optional, and stuck to exclusives for the PS3, which had smallish installs that were mostly manageable in the XMB.

I realize that this isn't really a problem for most people since they'll just delete older stuff for the new but as a collector it's a total goddamn nightmare.

4TB drives are now low in price in the form of SSHDs. The next generation of consoles should have the OS stored on a 512-1TB SSD, and then have a 3,5 high quality mechanical drive in 4-6TB variant, that can be replaced. You need a fast SSD for system operation.

But you need a large drive that can be replaced and swapped foe data bulk. But you say is interesting. I would like a stacking solution. A console accessory that allows you to extend the height of your console (making it fatter). Underneath you have a proprietary TB2 port that allows you to access 2 3,5 HDD caddies and perhaps some USB ports, extra lan port and such.
Dell and HP have made stacking NAS servers in the past that were quite cool. You just build the console upwards like a console.
If I was going to use my console as my home living collection center for netflix/HBO/itunes/whatever, I could see myself building a device that could be stacked to a lot. 20 TB easily just for movies and music.


But perhaps the thing you didn't address, and I find this bizarre, - Isn't it a bit weird collecting digital console games when they will sort of expire by the end of the generation? all your purchases and games on 360 just invalidated on the Xbox One. That's not a good design. Not just in the discussion about backwards compatability, but just on the discussion of value as a whole.

 

[CaviarMeths]

Unfortunately this is a problem that will affect an exceedingly small population. 2TB is the limit for PS4. Wii U can go up to 4TB I think with external (2x2TB). Not sure about Xbox One, but I assume its similar to those. For 99.99% of gamers, that's enough.

And it being enough for almost everybody seems to be enough for Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo too. Thing is that all three of them have a storage solution and most of them could be more accommodating to that 0.01% with a simple firmware update to allow capacity over 2TB.

Maybe with enough support emails and posts, they'll bump it up in priority.

 

[Alucrid]

If you keep your shelves in local McDonald's or something for some reason, then this analogy is appropriate.

Is McDonald's free WiFi better than yours at home?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

First world problems....

Imagine third world with slow internet connections!